XP service pak #3 cannot restore computer

March 27, 2011 at 06:21:49
Specs: Windows 7
when I try to restore to an earlier date, it goes thru the restore process (barometer screen ) when it finishes I get " cannot restore to that date ) ( doesn't matter which date i choose )
My Twain worked 2 weeks ago and now it won't work so I want to restore to earlier time when it worked correcctly for my scanner.

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#1
March 27, 2011 at 09:22:08
Why did you include XP Service Pack # 3 in your title ?

Most people have already installed the SP3 updates in XP.

You can't necessarily successfully load previous System Restore restore points if there have been certain significant changes since the restore point was made.

E.g.
If you have just loaded SP3 updates and since then the scanner will not work,
- you can't successfully load previous System Restore restore points that were made before the SP3 updates were installed
- if nothing has changed about the way the scanner is connected to the computer, you can probably un-install the software for the scanner and install it again and the scanner software will probably work fine.

Has anything been changed about the way the scanner is connected to the computer ?

E.g.

If it's connected to the computer via a USB connection, it may not be detected correctly when it's plugged into certain USB ports

Troubleshooting USB device problems including for flash drives, external drives, memory cards.
See Response 1:
http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

If it's a scanner that is one of the devices in a multifunction unit - printer, scanner, etc.,

- USB to printer port adapter devices when used for multifunction units that were designed to be connected to a printer port via a parallel printer cable often if not always ONLY work properly for the printer, NOT the scanner

- multifunction units that were designed to be connected to a printer port via a parallel printer cable, if they ARE connected to a printer port built into the mboard, MUST have the printer port MODE in the mboard's bios Setup set to EPP, ECP, or EPP/ECP mode. Usually EPP mode works fine.


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#2
March 27, 2011 at 09:39:21
Best if I start from the beginning. I have a stand alone scanner hp 4850>
I normally scan from Photoshop using the import function an then the Twain componant. Last week it stopped working. After many trys finally called HP 3 hrs and 14 installs on the scanner software still no twain frunction ( can only scan WIA in Paint ) So I decided to try and do a restore to earlier date when the scanner last worked. Cannot restore... Tried doing it in Safe Mode same result I included the #3 service pak to let you know my XP is up to date

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#3
March 27, 2011 at 11:44:03
Probably too late to go to System/Hardware/Device Manager, double click the scanner and choose Roll back driver?

FYI: defragging will break restore points on most drives due to cluster size incompatibility.


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#4
March 27, 2011 at 14:08:01
I'm curious about post #3.

At times I have been an excessive defragger (using various tools) and never had any trouble doing system restore. Can you let me know more about your experiences?

Please come back and let us know how you got on.


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#5
March 27, 2011 at 15:57:49
I've researched the defrag/restore-point problem more deeply, and this is what I found.

There is a problem with some Windows Server OSs:

The System Shadow Copy provider uses a copy-on-write mechanism that operates at a 16-KB block level. This is independent of the file system's cluster allocation unit size. If the file system's cluster size is smaller than 16 KB, the System Shadow Copy provider cannot easily determine that disk defragmentation I/O is different from typical write I/O, and performs a copy-on-write operation. This might cause the Shadow Copy storage area to grow very quickly. If the storage area reaches its user-defined limit, the oldest shadow copies are deleted first.

RESOLUTION
If the file system's cluster size is 16 KB or larger, the provider can recognize disk defragmentation I/O and handle it correctly. Microsoft recommends that you use a 16-KB or larger cluster allocation unit size when you format the volume if you plan to defragment volumes that are used for shadow copies of shared folders, .
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/312...

The problem seems to have been solved in Vista:

Shadow-copy-aware defragmentation
In shadow-copy-aware defragmentation, defragmentation uses Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSS) in-box software to optimize defragmentation. The VSS software minimizes copy-on-write change blocks. Shadow-copy-aware optimization slows down filling the difference area. This kind of optimization also slows down the reclaiming of old snapshots during defragmentation.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/942092

So I'm not sure if this is an XP problem or not when using the native defragger. However, I use Puran, Auslogics and Defraggler, each of which has options to optimize the disk. They have warned that using these advanced options will break restore points, because of the 4k cluster size problem.

So, probably you're ok if you stay away from the advanced options. I believe I've seen some restore point loss in Win7 using the options, but at this point I'm not certain. Something I'll take a look at next time I decide to optimize.


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#6
March 27, 2011 at 16:48:44
Apparently your 4850 model is USB connected and probably first came out in 2005.

When did you buy it ?

How much have you used it ?

See response 1 starting at...

"If it's connected to the computer via a USB connection, it may not be detected correctly when it's plugged into certain USB ports"
.........

"After many trys finally called HP 3 hrs and 14 installs on the scanner software still no twain frunction ( can only scan WIA in Paint )"

Did you un-install the software BEFORE you re-installed it ?

14 tries ! It should have dawned on your after two trys that something isn't being done right, or something else is wrong.

Are you saying the scan (twain interface) function only works in Paint ?

It it doesn't work in ANY program, are you sure that the bulb in the scanner still lights up ? They don't last forever, and your scanner may be as much as 6 years old

Are there other programs other than Photoshop or Paint you have used the scan function in ?

If it's only Photoshop the scan function doesn't work in, have you tried un-installing and re-installing Photoshop ?
.........

Did you DISABLE any resident module(s) of anti-malware software from loading BEFORE you re-installed the software ?

NOTE that sometimes the resident module(s) of anti-malware programs - a part that runs all the time scanning for suspicious activity - will interfere with the proper installation of third party software, the software will not install properly, and you may get no indication of that at all while installing the software.
To avoid that possibilty, you should always DISABLE the resident module(s) of anti-malware programs, BEFORE you install third party software (software other than most Microsoft Updates, etc., that did not come with Windows ), especially when it's a major or complicated software package.
E.g. if you are using the free or paid version of AVG, you should disable the Resident Shield in AVG's 's settings in Windows. In Norton (Symantec) products, there may be several things you need to disable, or set so they don't load for a specific short amount of time.
If you don't know how to do that, tell us which anti-malware software you are using.
When you are sure the software has installed correctly, re-enable the resident module(s).
.......

Unless the instructions for installing a device tell you otherwise......
(this ALWAYS applies to scanner software.....) .
You DO NOT install drivers for a device while booting into Windows, if the software for the device has not been installed yet - when Windows detects a generic device or New Hardware while booting, you allow it to search for drivers, it doesn't find any, and it wants you to show it the location of the drivers - CANCEL that, continue on to the desktop, and install the software for the device using the proper installation from a CD or the proper installation file that you downloaded from the web.

The same applies no matter when Windows finds New Hardware !

(The following also applies if you want to re-install the software)

If you DID install drivers that way, go to Control Panel - Classic View - Programs and Features and Un-install the software you installed, reboot, DO NOT install drivers while booting.

Continue on to the desktop screen, and install the software for the device using the proper installation from a CD or the proper installation file that you downloaded from the web.

In the case of USB connected scanners, printers, and similar multi-function devices, you usually are NOT supposed to connect the USB cable from the device to the computer until AFTER at least some of the software has been installed !!
...........

If you can't successfully load a previous System Restore restore point there's nothing you can do about that.
.......

I know from previous experience that sometimes HP's own Un-install program may leave too much behind (in the registry and files on the hard drive) and when you then re-install the same software again in may not install properly.

This is an excellent Microsoft made program that does a much better job of un-installing software /registry entries than most un-install programs provided by the manufacturer of the device or software.

However, Microsoft is no longer providing it on their web site because they found it can cause problems if you have Microsoft Office 2007 or later or any of it's component programs -Word, Outlook, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.- installed on your system.

I have used it many times and have had absolutely no problems caused by it, even on a system with Office 2007 installed on it, but I have never used it to un-install Office 2007 or any of it's components.

Windows Installer CleanUp Utility
Click on the dark blue Download button on the left
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Securi...

The HP software (or whatever software) must have been installed,and the siftware must have been installed by a Windows Installer package, in order for this Utility to find it.

Download it, install it, run it.
Have it delete all HP entries that are definitely for the scanner.

Restart the computer.

Install the HP software for the scanner the proper way.


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#7
March 27, 2011 at 17:13:23
paul1149

Aha, that explains it - thx.
I've had W31, W95, W98SE, XP, Vista, Win7. If I'm reading your research correctly, as the problem has been resolved in Vista+ and none of my earlier ones are/were Windows Server OS's, that accounts for me not having run into any problem (whatever the cluster size). Poster should presumably be OK too.

Please come back and let us know how you got on.


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#8
March 27, 2011 at 17:40:23
The Twain does not work. When I run a diagnostic in the HP program I downloaded
it checks each function on the scanner. The scanner works fine but not in the twain. It does not pass the twain function part of the test. HP tecniction told me to run SFC because he thinks some of my Dll's are damaged. He was right. However, I do not have the correct windows disk for this computer when I put the windows disk in the cd drive that I had, it said it was the in correct disc. Paint doesn't use the twain function.
The twain fucnction is part of the HP program not Photoshop. When I hit the import botton in Photoshop the twain does not even lite up My computer is using XP Media Center 2002 version 5.1 2600 Build service pak 3

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#9
March 27, 2011 at 17:48:22
also the problem with paint is you can only save the image as a bidmap and not a jpeg In Photoshop at all one scan and then right to your working screen as a JPeg

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#10
March 27, 2011 at 18:03:10
Do you know what file needed replacing? If so I'm happy to send you mine, but to avoid spammers don't put your email address on here - send it using the Personal Message feature.

You should be able to find the option to save to jpg in Paint. Mine has this and right now I'm using XP SP3. It wasn't available in earlier Paint versions. I am also able to make Paint one of the scanner selections but I am not using HP so maybe that is different.

Please come back and let us know how you got on.


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#11
March 27, 2011 at 18:46:44
"The Twain does not work. "

The Twain support is probably built into XP but it depends on the HP software specifying it is to be used. and all files needed to make it work must be okay.

For the third time of mine, if you provide the names of the corrupted or missing *.dll files we can tell you what you need to do.


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#12
March 28, 2011 at 07:33:10
When I run SFC /scannow it only tells you that DLL's need to be corrected no names just insert the windows xp disc.

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#13
March 28, 2011 at 07:35:09
Do you know what file needed replacing? If so I'm happy to send you mine, but to avoid spammers don't put your email address on here - send it using the Personal Message feature.

You should be able to find the option to save to jpg in Paint. Mine has this and right now I'm using XP SP3. It wasn't available in earlier Paint versions. I am also able to make Paint one of the scanner selections but I am not using HP so maybe that is different.

When I run SFC no file name is given just insert windopws disc. No option in my paint to save as Jpeg


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#14
March 28, 2011 at 09:23:38
See response 5 in your other Topic:

http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

You shouldn't have started two Topics about the same general problem.


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#15
March 28, 2011 at 12:09:26
Weird that you have no option to save Paint to jpg. I've done nothing to my Paint
yet when I use "File > Save As" this option is on the list:

JPEG (*.JPG;*.JPEG;*.JPE;*.JFIF)

This has just been taken directly off my screen and is an option I use quite a lot.
It's "default" Save option is bmp of-course.

Sorry, I've no idea why yours is different.

Please come back and let us know how you got on.


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#16
March 28, 2011 at 12:23:57
Yes That is why I want to get my twain working in Photoshop. Now I have to save as a bmap in Paint then open the Bidmap in Photoshop save as a jpg then reopen its a pain to say the least. Maybe I dont have the jpg option because my XP MCE is from 2002.

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#17
March 28, 2011 at 12:30:34
Tubesandwires

For the third time of mine, if you provide the names of the corrupted or missing *.dll files we can tell you what you need to do.

When I run SCF I get the following " Files Needed for Windows to run Properly must be copied to the DLL Cache " INsert Windows XP Professional CD2 Now

I think it is saying the " professional " because of the Service Pak # 3. I think I have to remove that first before I can try and use CD2 from MPE Before Id othat I getting a copy of Service Pak #3 so I can replace once I try thr CD's.

( WHen I put the Wind MCE #1 in the drive and did a compatabilty tab. I got the following response. " Computer version newer than the version on the CD " I think this is because its reading the service Pak #3


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#18
March 28, 2011 at 12:45:44
Re #16
I might now know why you are unable to save to jpg in Paint. Paint apparently does not natively have the appropriate graphic filters. However, if some other program has them Paint can pick them up and give you the option.

One such program is MS Office:
http://www.windowsreference.com/gen...

I also use Irfan View (which I highly recommend) so maybe that has some bearing on it.

Seems I might have told you porkies by accident, ie I "have" done something, which is "install other programs". It is rather like the old problem of not being able to spell check in Outlook Express unless you have MS Word.

I've not looked in any further detail but on the way around google I got the impression that there might be some sort of tweak or addition available somewhere that allows you to invoke the appropriate filters. To add to the confusion I have just seen some claims that XP Paint should be able to save to jpg without any other programs being on board!

I appreciate that this is something of an aside to your main question but it seemed odd so I felt I should "try" to pursue it - which I admit has produced rather mixed results.

Please come back and let us know how you got on.


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#19
March 28, 2011 at 13:58:17
"When I run SCF I get the following " Files Needed for Windows to run Properly must be copied to the DLL Cache " INsert Windows XP Professional CD2 Now"

As I said previously, all MCE versions are OEM versions and they come on 2 CDs.

All MCE versions are the same as XP Pro 32 bit versions with the same SP updates integrated into them or not integrated into them (e.g. MCE 2005 has SP2 updates; MCE 2002 may have no SP updates at all, or SP1 updates) , except that some features that most people do not use in Pro are not there in any MCE version, and the MCE versions have the additional major Media Center and associated programs, and additional multimedia support, which is why the MCE versions cannot fit on one CD.

XP Pro's Setup was modified to make the the first MCE version's Setup, and it appears from what I've found that it was not modified after that for later MCE versions -it has lots of bugs. Some times you get message about XP Pro (Professional), sometimes you get messages about MCE. The same bugs cause SFC to display messages about XP Pro.sometimes.

"I think it is saying the " professional " because of the Service Pak # 3. I think I have to remove that first before I can try and use CD2 from MPE Before Id othat I getting a copy of Service Pak #3 so I can replace once I try thr CD's."

It's saying Professional because of bugs in MCE - that has nothing to do with the SP3 updates.

"( WHen I put the Wind MCE #1 in the drive and did a compatabilty tab. I got the following response. " Computer version newer than the version on the CD " I think this is because its reading the service Pak #3"

Since when did you have any Recovery disks ?

Did you just make them, or did you make them before and just found them again ?

As I have already said in response 5 of your other Topic,

- it doesn't sound like the recovery disks are anything but a multi-disk archive - you probably can't repair Windows with them

- you probably can't use any of the disks in any case because SFC won't accept them as a valid source.

- even if making the Recovery disk set does make an actual Windows MCE re-installation CD one and two, the MCE 2002 CD's contents either have no SP updates at all, or have SP1 updates - SFC must have a source that has SP3 updates when SP3 updates have been loaded in Windows

As I have already said in response 5 of your other Topic,

- if there is a listing for SP3 updates in your Add or Remove Programs list,.un-install them.

This is ESPECIALLY important to do when you re-install the SP3 updates or ANY Windows SP updates again.
It's ALSO a good idea to do this BEFORE you un-install them. If you have Symantec (Norton) anti-malware software installed UN-INSTALL IT !


NOTE that sometimes the resident module(s) of anti-malware programs - a part that runs all the time scanning for suspicious activity - will interfere with the proper installation of third party software, the software will not install properly, and you may get no indication of that at all while installing the software.
To avoid that possibilty, you should always DISABLE the resident module(s) of anti-malware programs, BEFORE you install third party software (software other than most Microsoft Updates, etc., that did not come with Windows ), especially when it's a major or complicated software package.
E.g. if you are using the free or paid version of AVG, you should disable the Resident Shield in AVG's 's settings in Windows. In Norton (Symantec) products, there may be several things you need to disable, or set so they don't load for a specific short amount of time.
If you don't know how to do that, tell us which anti-malware software you are using.
When you are sure the software has installed correctly, re-enable the resident module(s).
......

After the SP3 updates have been un-installed look in Add or Remove Programs again.

If there is a listing for SP1 updates, that indicates MCE 2002 had no SP updates at all - un-install the SP1 updates.

If there is a listing for SP2 updates, that either
- indicates MCE 2002 had no SP updates at all -
- or - MCE 2002 had SP1 updates
- un-install the SP2 updates.

THEN SFC /scannow MAY work, however, because of bugs in MCE, I know that sometimes SFC will NOT accept the CD as a valid source even when it's the right one.

NOTE that if Sony has placed the \i386 folder on the hard drive, you probably won't need to insert a CD.

Bugs during a Setup from scratch....

When you initially install the OEM CD set, about 2/3 of the way of loading files from the first CD, Setup asks for the second CD, but the title it asks for does NOT match the volume label of the second CD.
At that point you insert the second CD in the SAME drive, and Setup will then continue.It loads files from the second CD, then Setup asks for the first CD, but the title it asks for ALSO does NOT match the volume label of the first CD.
At that point you insert the first CD in the SAME drive, and Setup will then continue, and finish successfully

Bugs during a Repair installation of Windows (you're running Setup again without deleting data you have added)....

When you use the OEM MCE 2 CD set to do a Repair installation of Windows procedure (repair an existing installation of Windows without deleting any of the data you have added to the partition Windows was installed on), the first CD loads fine, but when it asks for the second CD, the title it asks for does NOT match the volume label of the second CD, and Setup WILL NOT accept the second CD as a valid source of files.
If you quit Setup at that point, if the files that needed to be replaced or copied because they were missing were all on the first CD, then XP MCE will have been repaired fine, if running the Repair installation procedure can fix the problem (sometimes it can't).


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