Solved Can You Use Same MBR For 2 Different Model Computers?

July 2, 2012 at 18:11:49
Specs: Windows XP, 1.8 CPU/ 512 RAM
Hey Everybody,

Computer Model #1: Dell
Computer Model #2: Compaq

If you install an OS, this creates an MBR right?
If you install the Dos Prompt OS on a hd in one model computer, and then switch the hd to a different model computer, will the program run? The MBR determines whether this is possible or nor right?

Is this possible?
What about with a USB Flashdrive? Does this make a difference?

Can anyone help?


See More: Can You Use Same MBR For 2 Different Model Computers?

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#1
July 2, 2012 at 18:42:15
✔ Best Answer
Oh boy, here we go again:

"Computer Model #1: Dell" - What is the model, model number, & system specs of the Dell?

"Computer Model #2: Compaq" - What is the model, model number, & system specs of the Compaq?

"If you install an OS, this creates an MBR right?
If you install the Dos Prompt OS on a hd in one model computer, and then switch the hd to a different model computer, will the program run? The MBR determines whether this is possible or nor right?"

The MBR is unique to the OS, not the computer. However, Windows generally does not "travel" well from one computer to another because of the differences in hardware. If Windows gets installed on Comp #1, it gets configured for the Comp #1 hardware. If it gets transferred to Comp #2, it will detect the hardware is wrong, then act up (freeze, lock up, blue screen, cry, whine, vomit, etc).

Windows should be installed on the hard drive while the hard drive in in the computer that it will be run in. In other words, you need to have a working CD/DVD drive for the Compaq!

"If you install the Dos Prompt OS on a hd in one model computer, and then switch the hd to a different model computer, will the program run?"

Explained above. But where are you going to get this "Dos Prompt OS"? I think what you mean is MS-DOS. But DOS died a long time ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS...

See response 5 in your other thread:

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...


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#2
July 2, 2012 at 19:11:42
If you install an OS, this creates an MBR right?

Wrong. the MBR is created when the disk is partitioned. It is modified when the OS is installed but only to indicate which partitions are bootable and to add the primary boot manager that is OS dependant.

Can can in install a simple Operating System like MS-DOS on a disk in one computer and run it on another but a more complex Operating System like Windows you cannot and it has nothing to do with the MBR. It is the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL.SYS) and the Registry that is the problem with Windows, neither of which exist in MS-DOS, and they are created during the install process.

Flash drives don't have an MBR.

Stuart


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#3
July 2, 2012 at 23:17:48
"Flash drives don't have an MBR"

Oh! they do if you use as a Bootable Device and install say Linux on the Drive

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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Related Solutions

#4
July 3, 2012 at 12:01:25
"install the Dos Prompt OS"

No such thing - DOS means Disk Operating System. You might still be able to find and install some early 1990's MS DOS (which will produce a DOS prompt) but you neither need or want such historical software for Windows XP onwards. As a separate entity it was last required with Windows 3.1 but was included on the install disk for Win 95, 98 & ME which partially used it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS

You can get old bootdisks from http://www.bootdisk.com for CD (or floppy). These will boot to a DOS Prompt provided that the CD (or floppy) is set in BIOS to be ahead of the HD. They also have basic DOS commands. Having said that I have no idea why they would be of interest.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#5
July 3, 2012 at 14:22:44
He has no CD or Floppy according to his other postings. 3 threads around 60 replies.

Also one machine is dead according to his other postings.

He will not answer logically, even after 4 weeks, he talks gibbberish and contradicts himself, and has been told what he is asking before....

http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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#6
July 4, 2012 at 09:19:29
I am thinking he borked this system back in August of '11.

http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/formatted-hard-drive-invalid-system-disk/80054.html


And has been making a bigger mess as he goes on.

Likely


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#7
July 5, 2012 at 01:17:16
riider,
Hey Bro!!

Dell Latitude C600 (has no problems)
Compaq Evo N610c (same computer)

"then act up (freeze, lock up, blue screen, cry, whine, vomit, etc)."
I like your description. That's FUNNY. I knew it would cause a problem, but I "didn't" know that it was caused by the -- Hardware Configuration --. Interesting!

"Windows should be installed on the hard drive while the hard drive in in the computer"
I found this out when I installed to an external hd and it failed!!

"See response 5 in your other thread:"
IF I can get to the Dos Prompt outside of windows, then yes "MS-DOS". I have heard of MS-DOS, but I didn't know that it was an OS, but if this is what you were referring to by "DOS", and it can get me to the Dos Prompt, then yes. I need MS-DOS so that I can get TO a Dos Prompt so that I can input some computer language and to have some elbow room to navigate the computer. If you can help me get this MS-DOS and tell me how to install it, if you need a drive, or if you can tell me how to "Plop" a USB, then that would be great. This is what I have been asking you how to do for several posts. If this is not possible, then it would more clear if you simply put a "Yes" or "No" at the beginning of your reply.

Example: "No". "It is not possible to install the MS-DOS OS without a floppy drive, CD Drive, or USB Flashdrive, even if the OS file is copied onto the hd first." OR
"Yes". "If you save the MS-DOS folder to the hd first, you can install it from here. So you do not need a floppy drive, CD Drive, or USB Flashdrive to install it."

StuartS,
Thanks for your reply, good to hear from you.

'If you install an OS, this creates an MBR right?' "Wrong."
How insightful, I did not know that. So that's how the OS writes into the MBR, because I knew that the OS wrote the MBR, I just thought that it was scratch!

"It is the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL.SYS) and the Registry that is the problem with Windows, neither of which exist in MS-DOS, and they are created during the install process."
Wow -- this is REALLY useful. I "just" ran into this situation! I tried to install MS-DOS on an hd with XP, but was unsuccessful, even though I had previously installed a program that enables dual operating systems to run at the same time; which is due to a missing file that it said that it needed. The error message indicated that all I had to do was to reinstall this file into the windows folder, "Windows\System32\Hal.dll", and the program would run. I looked in the actual window's folder and found that this file was already there. I thought this was strange and did not understand what was going on, though I suspected that it somehow may have had something to do with the MBR, except that I did not know where the MBR was actually saved... [in the Bios/or same protected mem area?]

"Flash drives don't have an MBR"
Even if you partition it? Even if you install an OS on it?


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#8
July 5, 2012 at 01:20:23
Jolicloud,

"Oh! they do if you use as a Bootable Device and install say Linux on the Drive"
That's what I thought. I was starting to get confused. But maybe it could have just been an exception to the general rule. Thanks for clarifying. Maybe StuartS didn't know that you could partition a Flashdrive. I actually didn't either until not long ago, but a few rounds in these forums tends to put a little meat on your bones, where your brain is concerned. You pick up little tit bits here and there. Little morsals of knowledge.

Derek,
Thanks for the post.

"DOS means Disk Operating System"
Didn't know that. Never heard the name's full name, or knew that it was even an abbreviation!

"MS DOS (which will produce a DOS prompt)"
Derek, this is EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. I "need" a DOS prompt to be able to enter the computer language!

"but you neither need or want such historical software for Windows XP onwards"
And, by the way, coincidently enough, this is what I need to be able to fix my computer at the moment. In fact, IF I can get MS-DOS to run on my system, then my computer will be fixed!!! But thanks for your concern.

"You can get old bootdisks...These will boot to a DOS Prompt provided that the CD (or floppy)..."
Yes Derek, you are quite correct. These are called Startup Disks.

"I have no idea why they would be of interest"
And yes, this WOULD solve the problem to fix my computer IF I "had" a floppy drive or my CD Drive wasn't disabled.

likelystory,
Yes, it is true that I did run into a similar problem before, having "borked" it up. But the computer that I was referring to here was a computer that I was trying to fix for a friend, so the solution was different than this scenario. This is a different computer now, my computer, and the error message is DIFFERENT:
Previous Error [Computer#3]: "Invalid System Disk" >>> SOLUTION: Use a different OS disk. Disk scratched!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Only Win OS I have not in storage]
Current Error [Computer#2]: "A Disk Read Error Has Occurred"

Captain Kirk


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#9
July 5, 2012 at 03:30:35
<except that I did not know where the MBR was actually saved... [in the Bios/or same protected mem area?

The MBR is created on the very first sector of the hard disk during the partitioning process and is outside of any partitions. It is the very first thing read from the hard disk by the BIOS after it has completed its POST(Power on Self Test) functions.

It tells the BIOS where to go from there by loading the boot loader that is contained in the MBR. The MBR is in two parts, the partition table and the boot loader. The partition table lists and the start and finish of all partitions on the disk.

The boot loader is a block code that that is put there by the OS during installation. It is OS specific and starts the OS loading. Once it is loaded the BIOS hands control over to it which then begins to load the OS using information stored in the partition table.. From the information stored in teh Partition Table it then looks at the VBR (Volume Boot Record) which gives information on the OS, file system and partition size,. The is a VBR at the beginning of every partition and is put there during the formatting process.

MS-DOS was the Operating system that came with the very first IBM PC back in 1984. It was all you had until Windows 2 came along. Up intil Windows 3.3 it was just a DOS application that provided a Graphical Interface. It want until Windows 2000 came along that Windows actually became an Operating System in its own right. Prior to that all versions of Windows had some reliance of DOS to some degree.

Once the partition table is created it is can only be deleted by using something like killdisk. Deleting all partitions will not delte it. There will not be much in it but it will still be there. Virus writers take advantage of this and install viruses in the same place as the boot loader which makes then hard to get rid off. However, most anti-virus applications are aware of this and will scan the MBR as a matter of routine.

Stuart


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#10
July 5, 2012 at 05:38:27
You definitely don't want "MS DOS itself as a separate install" if you are installing any version of Windows beyond W31. MS-DOS6 is still available as a download (1999) but XP won't be expecting to see another complete operating system present and it would just cause pointless complications.

You can get some of the old DOS "commands" on a bootdisk (format etc) and yes, you will get a DOS Prompt. Maybe you could even put one of those on a bootable Flash Drive somehow but that is very messy and not the way of going about things for XP onwards. Its all been made much simpler and is done from a CD/DVD drive.

Thanks, but I do know what a startup disk is, I went through W95 and W98 years ago and was a prolific helper on those forums. I still have a working W98 computer.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#11
July 5, 2012 at 07:08:42
This has all been regurgitated before, if you do not understand computers and after 12 months still struggling, you have two choices:

1 - take to a tech
2 - buy a cheap PC on eBay

Derek have you read his other posts ?

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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#12
July 5, 2012 at 07:16:05
jolicloud

Yeah, seems like the poster only wants answers that fit his own misconceptions.

We can't really do that - its like trying to convince The Flat Earth Society that the
world is a sphere.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#13
July 5, 2012 at 08:23:52
"its like trying to convince The Flat Earth Society that the world is a sphere"

Nicely stated.


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#14
July 5, 2012 at 22:02:07
I know this makes no difference I am just trying to see if I understand exactly what is going on.

1) Either there is no operating system on the hard drive or what is there was installed in or through a seperate machine and that just does not work most times.

2) Optical drive does not work?

3) Computer too old for boot from usb option.

4) User only has access to XP or Linux and has tried many times installing them through another machine.

5) User suggests/wants to attempt insatlling XP through a DOS Prompt. Why?

Can the user remove the optical drive from the good machine and use it in the one he has trashed?

I actually have used startup disks with XP Home. There are six of them. I have only had to use them on one system though. In my mind if you don't have a working optical drive to boot from then they won't do you any good.

The above is what I think I know here. I am probibly wrong.

Advice to the user: STOP! Get a working optical drive or replace computer.

Not to add to the stress and confusion but what the heck. Maybe you can try doing a network install.

Likely


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#15
July 5, 2012 at 22:54:05
StuartS,
Good to hear from you.
"POST(Power on Self Test)"
Never heard of it. So that's where the MBR is written. "Outside" of the partitions, huh? Interesting. Didn't know that.

"VBR (Volume Boot Record)"
Didn't know there was such a thing!

Derek,
Thanks for replying back.
"but XP won't be expecting to see another complete operating system present and it would just cause pointless complications."
So your saying that I can't intall XP from a "Startup Disk" OR from MS-DOS?
You say "complications". But IS it still possible? I know computer language and can navigate the Dos Prompt...

So I'd have to create an extra partition for the DOS OS. You CAN run a computer with 2 operating systems on it. This is nothing new. But thanks for reminding me about it having to be on it own partition.

"I still have a working W98 computer."
Wow, really. In storage, where I can't get to, I have W95, W98, and ME, and in the future, I plan to run a computer with a dual operating system -- one of them being W95 or W98. But I think I'll go for W95 because it takes up less memory RAM and less space on the hd. Mostly this choice is due to RAM. However, I would choose W95 because it is also slimer and be less likely to bog things up.

riider,
Your right, this situation IS a difficult one, but a "computer expert" could solve it.
And it is true, I am not a true computer expert yet. But someday I will be...

EVERYONE,
So apparently you didn't like my strategies or think that they would work. I guess by not directly responding about any of them, that leaves it obviously clear that you don't seem to think that they will be successful.

I was waiting for you all to get back to me before I proceeded with my next course of action, and tried out a last few ideas before giving up and breaking down to buy a new CD Drive. I was trying to become an expert at computers, but somehow was still not successful at figuring this out. IF I was an expert, I may have been able to do this, even with the hardware restrictions. But you know your a computer expert when you can perform operations like this even with these kind of Hardware restrictions.

So no one's heard of the Plop program, or HOW to configure it?

Captain Kirk


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#16
July 6, 2012 at 01:08:31
http://www.comptia.org/home.aspx

Give it up as a bad job, you will never be a Tech. it is 11 months now:

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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#17
July 6, 2012 at 03:46:16
Obviously you don't understand what I am saying so I'm giving up.


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#18
July 6, 2012 at 15:24:07
Hows his favorite toilet program?
The Plop program

I am a hardware guy not a software guy but i try to help.


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#19
July 6, 2012 at 18:50:57
I know computer language and can navigate the Dos Prompt...

Fantastic!

What computer language would that be. C,C++, Delphi, BASIC, Visual Basic, COBOL or FORTRAN.

I know how to drive a motor car with a non-synchromesh gear box. But as every motor vehicle made in the last thirty years has a synchromesh gearbox it is a pretty useless skill.

If you have never heard of POST or the VBR then you need to do some serious reading. Knowing what happens, or at least having some idea of what happens when you press the power button helps enormously when it comes to instilling operating systems.

Stuart


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#20
July 6, 2012 at 20:06:28
Jolicloud,
Excellent choice of links I must say. That is what I'm looking for, to get one of those some day, among other certifications, degrees.
I know my only college experience so far has been completely computer unrelated, and so my only training has been hands on. I may not be book smart about computers, but I know a couple of things.

jay_nar2012,
Just a second, I got to sit down on the toliet
Plop

Plop plop,
Fizz fizz,
Ahh what a relief it is

Derek,
I understand what you are saying. I'm just trying out some more ideas.
Thanks for trying. At least you gave it a whirl. I appreciate your reply.

likelystory,
And to save the best for last, likelystory. Your reply was the best so far. You asked me if that is what I meant and you tried to understand what I was saying. You clarified it and were very concise with your questions. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making such a good comment.

I didn't mean to miss you on the last post, but I saw you there. Maybe I must have overlooked it or something. But anyways, as to your comment:
1) Yes, this is correct: "there is no operating system". My bad computer, the Compaq, Computer#2, currently has a formatted hd. And yes, you are right, this has been my experience: an OS "was installed in or through a seperate machine and that just does not work"
2) Yes. My CD Drive has been disabled, and does not detect any CDs. This same situation with the CD Drive has happened to me once before after using the "create a virtual drive program". And then when Windows was reinstalled, my disabled CD Drive was now once again enabled!!
3) Yes: "Computer too old for boot from usb option."
4) Yes: "only has access to XP or Linux"; and DOS. Yes: "tried many times installing them through another machine." But haven't tried DOS yet.
5) Yes: "User suggests/wants to attempt insatlling XP through a DOS Prompt." "Why?": By using the 'Plop' program, I can boot with the USB even though the Bios does not support a USB boot. I have XP saved on the USB flashdrive.

"Can the user remove the optical drive from the good machine and use it in the one he has trashed?"
Good question. In fact, this may have solved the problem outright. How clever. But no, I've already tried that. For some incompatibility issue the Dell computer's CD Drive does no fit in the Compaq. Dang. Worth a try though. This is the closest that anyone on this forum has gotten for some time. What a good idea!!!

"I actually have used startup disks with XP Home"
I didn't know that they had startup disks for XP.

"In my mind if you don't have a working optical drive to boot from then they won't do you any good."
Unless you have a Plop enabled USB flashdrive with XP on it.

"The above is what I think I know here. I am probibly wrong."
Yes. You are right. But most people haven't heard of the Plop program.

"Maybe you can try doing a network install."
I never thought of that. You mean from "cloud" or something?

Captain Kirk


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#21
July 6, 2012 at 20:20:10
See response # 16: http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

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#22
July 6, 2012 at 20:28:57
BTW, I posted the above before reading your entire response # 20. And I saw that you wrote this: "I didn't know that they had startup disks for XP".

That's interesting because I told you in response # 9 in the following thread that the XP startup disc set consists of SIX floppies. I even posted a link for you to read about it. If you don't take the time to read what we post, why should we bother?

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...


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#23
July 7, 2012 at 16:32:29
Plop

After reading some of this I am still not sure about installing from a usb drive in this system but I don't have a degree or any certifications myself.

Likely


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#24
July 7, 2012 at 16:44:57
I may be wrong but it seems like this boot from usb option that this plop program is about needs to be installed ahead of time. In other words before you start playing Mr. Wizard with your hardware. This is something installed or added to the bios with the use of a cd or floppy. I am thinking when you have a working operating system but even if you don't need the operating system present you still need the cd rom or floppy drive because you can't yet boot from the usb. You have not yet installed the option.

Likely


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#25
July 7, 2012 at 23:28:18
PLOP = need a CD or Floppy Drive neither OP has...........

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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#26
July 8, 2012 at 01:45:10
He has a toilet i think.

I am a hardware guy not a software guy but i try to help.


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#27
July 8, 2012 at 03:34:58
riider,
I did remember that you had told me about the startup disks. I was just being nice to likelystory because before you told me I didn't know about them, and that wasn't very long ago. It was more like a, "oh yea, I remember that". After the reply, I was thinking to myself, "didn't riider tell me that?" Guess "Startup Disks" aren't only ONE disk anymore!! Wow, I mean wow -- you have to admit, from one to six? Sorry riider, you did tell me first.

Jolicloud,
Yes. I tried to install it manually. AND I also tried to install it with the Plop Boot Manager CD. I thought of that myself, that's why I tried it out all the ways that I could think of.

"need a CD or Floppy Drive neither OP has"
Actually my Dell does have a working seated CD Drive. And I also have an external DVD/RW Drive that I can now hook up to it that also runs.

likelystory,
Thanks for your ideas. You just gave me an idea: maybe I should test out the USB boot funtion with another program that requires you to boot from the USB. You know, double check. That could be problem. I like your terminology. That's hilarious: "before you start playing Mr. Wizard".

"I am thinking when you have a working operating system"
I actually did install the Plop program on the Dell, which currently has an OS...
But that is a really really good idea. In fact, it is such a good idea that I thought that this had been the problem all along -- until I realized that I had installed it with the Dell, and it has an OS. So I just erased an entire paragraph that I wrote to you about how great that was and that that was the problem that I hadn't seen all along. And your amazing, and that sort of thing, until I realized--

"if you don't need the operating system present you still need the cd rom or floppy drive because you can't yet boot from the usb. You have not yet installed the option."

Actually I did already successfully install the Boot Manager Menu of Plop with the CD twice, and tried EVERY single option but still could not get the program to function as it described that it would [USB Boot].

Man, you got some good ideas, and your funny. What other surprises do you have?
And by the way, its cool that you looked into the program because I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong...


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#28
July 8, 2012 at 03:45:55
Riider, please read response #18

http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/laptop-suddenly-went-blank-no-boot-now-35-boots/86273.html

http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/laptop-suddenly-went-blank-no-boot-now-35-boots/86273.html

http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/laptop-suddenly-went-blank-no-boot-now-35-boots/86273.html


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#29
July 8, 2012 at 09:02:07
Please learn how to post links.

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...


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#30
July 8, 2012 at 11:34:58
Is the plop program installed on the Compaq the currently non functioning computer? If not then connecting any usb to that comuter in an attempt to boot is a waste of time. It makes no difference if it is a flash drive, a dvd drive, a hard drive oran icbm missle. The bios isn't going to look that far down the line. It's going to see usb an stop because it is not allowed to use it yet.

You can install what ever you want to the Dell. Dos -> Windows 8. None of this is going to get you moving in the direction of fixing the Compaq. You can dowload and watch Debbie does Dallas and while it may get you aroused it is not going to cook you dinner.

Likely


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#31
July 9, 2012 at 02:03:46
riider,
For a second there, I thought your link was to a site that told how to post a link and so I was about to tell you how great this was, and how I have wanted to know how to post a link for a long time but don't know how to. And I was about to tell you how amazing this was. But then I realized that you were not telling me how to do this, but were making fun of me instead. Well it was worth a click anyways...

likelystory,

Of course I laughed again at your comment, and found the other one amusing. And it sounded cool.

The Plop program was installed on the Dell [the good computer with a running OS], and was tested with the DOS to USB program which I had started the setup of [The program DOS to USB] but had not completed yet, as it needed a boot restart to finish the setup process. Needless to say, the test failed. But I cannot be sure about these results until I double check it.

So you are saying that I should install the Plop program on the Compaq hd [the formatted hd] when it is the internal drive in the Compaq? What an interesting idea. That sounds good. I'll try that. Who knows, maybe it might work. Maybe that is what it needs. Excellent idea. Thanks for the comment bro!

Captain Kirk


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#32
July 10, 2012 at 10:24:27
Posting a link is simple, it's called "copy/paste". You know how to copy a web address from the address bar, right?

And if you want to personalize the name of the link, just click the "ball & chain" at the top of the reply box, paste the web address between the quotation marks, then put your custom name between the > <

For example: Captain Kirk hard at work


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#33
July 10, 2012 at 14:50:39
Captains Log

Likely


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#34
July 11, 2012 at 00:46:05
http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-xp/can-you-use-same-mbr-for-2-different-model-computers/200528.html

riider,
That's funny that you say that. Because that's EXACTLY what I did. So just on the off chance that I did something wrong, I tried it again. And then tried it again. So I retested it. Last time I tested it, and that is why you only saw 3 internet addresses. I wrote 4, but 1 was invisible. This time when I tested it, I clicked the globe with (--) at the bottom of it, and entered the "internet address" at the blinking cursor. I clicked submit response and nothing showed up in the respose box. So I tried it again. This time I took the cursor and placed in the center of the >< and this time the address DID show up, but it is not underlined and it cannot be clicked as a link like how you and everyone else did it.

likelystory,
Hey Bro, how's it going? Still with us huh?
No, no captain's log yet unfortunately!!

Okay likelystory, here are the ideas that you gave me about the Plop program:

IDEA 1
Double check the USB program to see if this was the problem instead.

IDEA 2
Maybe the Plop program is configured incorrectly, so I need to install it again.

>>For idea 1: In the first run, I installed the DOS to USB program. Fail. In the second run, I installed Linux Puppy in "Superfloppy mode". Fail. Both were not detected by the USB on boot.
>>For idea 2: I haven't figure out how to configure it correctly yet. I may have messed up the configuration somehow by trying every single option to get it to work and trying it manually. It looks like I may have to uninstall and completely delete all of the Plop files and then try again. Otherwise, I really don't know what I am doing wrong!! I followed the tutorial and it is not performing as it is supposed to.

If you know what I should do about the XP Startup Disks as an installation, maybe I can put them all on one disk? What about all of the 6 Diskettes extracted into one folder and then copied to the empty Compaq hd? Would that work?

Sincerely,

Ran Into Another Problem


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#35
July 11, 2012 at 13:34:08
I don't have nearly the education nor experience most on this forum do so I may be a bit off here.

It has been my experience that no matter the operating system you are almost always better off starting with a RAW harddrive. In other words the with the harddrive in the computer it is going to be used with no partitions on it. No formatting done to it. No MBR. No nothing. I know there are other ways to do it but for me this is the most easy.

I may be wrong but at this point is is apparent to me that you wil NOT be able to do anything from a device connected via usb. While the computer is attempting to boot it may recognize that you have usb ports but is not going to attempt to use them until the OS loads because you do not have the usb option in the bios.

Given my very limited experience I see no way of getting this computer to do anything useful without a cd rom, dvd drive, or floppy drive. Replace the optical drive or turn this machine into a pretty paper weight. These are the options I see available.

Likely


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#36
July 11, 2012 at 20:30:27
likelystory,
Hey bro, don't worry about your lack of education. I have went to college for two years, but NONE of it was computer related, and so my "only" experience is hands on practice, which in general, is better than education. So I am not booksmart about computers either.

Have you ever heard of the "Ghost" program, or a program that creates a "clone hd image"?


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#37
July 12, 2012 at 13:41:20
Used them a good number of times. You cannot install an image from one machine to another unless the hardware is almost identical. If you have an image from the none working computer you cannot install it via usb. If you have an image of the none working computer from before it became none working stored on the good computer you may be able to network the two and install that way but I am thinking I am missing something here.

Likely


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#38
July 12, 2012 at 13:52:17
Have you ever heard of the "Ghost" program, or a program that creates a "clone hd image"?

Be aware that clone and image are two words that you will come across but they are different things altogether.

An image is file based and takes an image of all the files on the hard disk, compress them and often stored it in a single files. An Images has to be restored to a partitioned disk before it can be used.

A clone know nothing if files and just copies the contents of a portion byte by byte, including the MBR, to another disk so you end up with a copy that is identical in every way to the original. A clone is ready to be used as soon as it is made.

An image is usually made for backup purposes. A clone is used when transferring data from an old hard disk to a new one.

Stuart


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#39
July 13, 2012 at 01:07:40
likelystory,
How you doing?
"You cannot install an image from one machine to another unless the hardware is almost identical"
Yes, I was aware of that, but I appreciate the heads up.

"and install that way but I am thinking I am missing something here."
Nope, your not missing anything. And as usual, your right on the dot again. This is exactly what I was thinking of doing next time so that this does not happen next time: to correct the problem immediately and a lot more easily.

So I can see that you guessed exactly what I was planning on doing next time. But as I have not used ANY of these programs, I do not know about the exact process of creating a clone. I only used "Ghost" one time, and that was just to test it out, but I only got as far as the "Source" and "Target" terminology screen. Does this process take 10 hours to complete? When you do this process, you have to select the drive as the "Source" and the "Target" has to be another drive -- or can it be a DVD burner as the target drive selection is the clone is less than 4 Gigs?

StuartS,
Good to hear from you.again!!!

That's great that you cleared things up about the difference between these two types of programs, because obviously I didn't seem to know there was one.

"A clone know nothing if files and just copies the contents of a portion byte by byte, including the MBR"
Curious. I didn't realize that. Never heard that. Doesn't realize separate files huh?

If you made a clone of your hd and saved it to another parition/drive or DVD, could you use this "clone" to restore a formatted hd to working order?

"An image is usually made for backup purposes."
Didn't think there was a difference.

So both of these types of programs [the Clone, and the Image] use this same required process of needing to copy them over to a black formatted drive/parition?


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#40
July 13, 2012 at 04:11:46
f you made a clone of your hd and saved it to another parition/drive or DVD, could you use this "clone" to restore a formatted hd to working order?

No you cant nad you would have no need too. You would use the clone itself. A clone is not used to restore anything.

Stuart


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#41
July 13, 2012 at 20:15:16
Hello StuartS,

Let me just clarify the process that I was talking about instead of cramming all the steps into one sentance where it might be more confusing as to my meaning.
Okay, this is what I meant:

1> You make a clone of your hd
2> You save the clone to a DVD
3> Your computer crashes. You format your hd
4> You copy the clone from the DVD onto the formatted hd

QUESTION
At this point (5>), if you boot your computer, will it run, or will you get an error message?


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#42
July 14, 2012 at 04:47:04
You are misunderstanding the purpose of a clone. You do not make a clone for backup purposes although scenario you describe could be used. The computer would work perfectly at stage 4 but would be at a stage the disk was when the clone was made,

But how would you get a 100 Gb partition on to a DVD. A clone, as the name suggests, is exactly the same as the original, and therefore, the same size, The only thing a 100 Gb clone would fit on is another 100 Gb hard disk.

For backup purposed you would use an image which is compressed and leaves out things like the swap file and the contents of the recycle bin and restore points. All of which are included in a clone.

Stuart


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#43
July 14, 2012 at 20:22:57
StuartS,
If the clone isn't for backup purposes, then what is the purpose of a clone?

Yes, you are right a 100 Gig hd = 100 gig clone.
Here's what you do: [100 Gig hd]

1> Format your hd.
2> Install a fresh copy of the fully functional Windows OS that is running with no problems, and no other programs
3> "Resize" your hd to 2 Gigs
4> Make a clone of your hd, and copy it to a DVD
5> "Resize" your hd back to its original 100 Gig size
6> In one year or so when your computer crashes, format the hd
7> "Resize" your hd to 2 Gigs
8> Copy the clone from the DVD onto the formatted hd
9> "Resize" your hd back to its original 100 Gig size
10> At this point, you said your computer would run!!!!!

100 gig clone backup complete!!!!!!!!!!

Captain Kirk


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#44
July 15, 2012 at 05:15:45
I just looked back as I've got this post tagged.

Without reading all 43 posts, can we take it that you now have your way forward and are about to go ahead with "something"?


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#45
July 15, 2012 at 11:49:03
No. Not even close. We are now so far out in left field we had to take over another stadium.

Likely


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#46
July 15, 2012 at 12:03:38
What I understand you want to do is basically make a backup plan in case you encounter this again?
I may be wrong but the idea of using a clone is for say several work stations. Say you have fifty work stations. You install your OS and all needed programs on one system. You then make a copy or clone of that partition of that drive on that machine. You then load that on the other forty nine machines saving yourself a lot of time and then all machines are identical. All updates can be done at the same time.
I think what you need is a backup image. I would still suggest this be stored on an external drive not a DVD as it can still be larger than four gigs. Much like the clone idea you get your computer set up the way you want installing your OS and other programs. A backup will also save your personal settings. Another reason for using an external drive is if you change a few programs or settings or say you have made several updates to your programs. You can create a backup to replace the backup you have then reinstall when needed.

None of the above will work with your currently none working computer. You still have the issue of no optical drive and no usb support during boot.

Likely


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#47
July 15, 2012 at 13:02:14
If the clone isn't for backup purposes, then what is the purpose of a clone?

You were told that days ago,

Your scenario has so many hole in it I would be here all night explaining why it wouldn't work. For backups you use a disk image, not a clone. Different things for different purposes.

A clone is nearly always used when transferring the contents of one hard drive to another. Hard drives need to be replaced from time to time and making a clone saves all the bother of reinstalling the operating system and reinstall all applications.

A clone is always applied to a clean hard disks no partitions, no formatting, nothing. The clone itself does all that. If you tried to apply a clone to a partitioned hard disk that had no unallocated space big enough to take it would fail.

Stuart


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#48
July 16, 2012 at 00:26:55
Hello,

So the only "purpose" of a clone is for businesses only? Clone programs are useless for common people, it is only a business application. You don't know anything more about clones or its process?

How do you make a backup and how do you use it if your system is crashed or the OS is not running? Is a backup USELESS if your hd is formatted or have no functional OS?


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#49
July 16, 2012 at 04:09:30
I give up, I really do. Why would only a business have the need to install a new hard disk?

Af to backups, the re are many different wya of making backups, you pick the one that is most suitable for your need. A clone is not one of them.

Stuart


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#50
July 16, 2012 at 04:10:37
After 48 posts and you still don't get it, you better find something else to do. Computers are definitely not your thing.

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#51
July 16, 2012 at 14:46:30
Howdy,

StuartS,
"Why would only a business have the need to install a new hard disk?"
[likelystory]: "using a clone is for say several work stations. Say you have fifty work stations. You install your OS and all needed programs on one system. You then make a copy or clone of that partition of that drive on that machine. You then load that on the other forty nine machines saving yourself a lot of time and then all machines are identical. All updates can be done at the same time."

Hey StuartS, since you know about the clone program, if you could tell me the step by step process about how to use one, that'd be great. You seem to know a lot about the clone programs. Thanks!

"the re are many different wya of making backups"
Okay, pick one; how do you make one? Can you make a backup with XP?

likelystory,
"We are now so far out in left field we had to take over another stadium."
Right now, left feild is all I got. The other stadium has been rained out. This is the ONLY stadium left!!!

Derek,
"can we take it that you now have your way forward and are about to go ahead with "something"?"
The answer is no, unless you have some ideas. Right now the only thing that I can do is think of ways to prevent it from happening next time.

grasshopper,
I have no CD Drive, no floppy drive, and a Bios that does not support USB boot.
"Who's smarter than a 5th grader?"
So grasshopper, got any ideas?


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#52
July 16, 2012 at 15:00:50
Everybody/Riider,

I followed the instructions exactly to a "T". Now I get a "Invalid System Disk" error. And when I press a key, the new message becomes, "Non System Disk or Disk Error". These two messages keep switching back and forth everytime I press a key.

I have completely run out of ideas and don't know what is going wrong: I installed DOS 7.1 and doubled checked to see that it was fully functional. +I386. +smartdrv.exe.
Then when hd is transferred from Dell back to Compaq, there is no Command Prompt, only the error message described above.

If there is a way to install DOS without needing to install from a floppy, CD, or USB, then this is what I need. Anybody have any ideas?


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#53
July 20, 2012 at 00:35:53
You're still trying to install things on the harddrive of your Compaq in your Dell and expecting it to work in your Compaq?

I'm not going to go back and count over all your different threads how many times you've been told this won't work but I know it is over five.

I have a solution! Do you own a vehicle? If yes reassemble the Compaq and take it with you. Get on the highway and up to speed ( at least 50 MPH ). At that speed roll down your drivers side window. Hold the Compaq in your hand out the window. With a single smooth motion ( this is important ) throw the Compaq straight up in the air. Roll your drivers side window back up and return home. Problem solved.

If you do not own a vehicle place the Compaq in your garbage can and walk away. Problem solved.

Good bye.

Likely


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#54
July 20, 2012 at 02:10:48
If you look in James T's other posts you realise he 'just likes to chat', by his own admission. DNFTT

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..." Pink Floyd


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#55
July 20, 2012 at 14:39:16
I think this guy has been "having us on" for a long time. Not all that funny but a good try I suppose.


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#56
July 20, 2012 at 16:14:41
likelystory,
If you "really" did read all the other threads, you'll have seen that these were the SPECIFIC instructions from riider.

As you can see, you have not actually read all of the threads, OR posts; you are just making trouble.

Mutiny on a starship carrying the rest of mankind can cause extinction...

If the Earth is a starship, them all of mankind...


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#57
July 20, 2012 at 19:58:05
AI: "Reactor Core melt down in 5 minutes". "Beam a landing party down. Mccoy, Spock, come with me." On the surface of the planet, we found the alien base. A green creature with a pig's nose and walrus tusks that weilded a double bladed battle axe stopped them at the cities' enterance. Mccoy: "he says, 'what race are you?'". Mccoy answered him, and the green creature growled. Kirk dived under the swing of the axe, and they ran off through the city. They veered off and turned toward the docking bay. They found a Class 1 ship built with the lowest tech in the starsystem. Kirk tried to figure out how to operate the controls of the alien ship. There were the sounds of commotion outside and the sound of angery boars. A green boar humanoid held an axe above his head with a swing ready. "Grrrrr". "Okay. Okay, we surrender." The landing party was herded into a 20 foot pit.

Captain's Log Stardate 3127,
We have failed to find more Dilithium Crystals. We have ran our ship too hard. Our ship has exploded from a Reactor Core melt down. We escaped to a nearby planet, but found that the aliens here weren't very welcoming. I tried to fly an alien ship, but did not know how to. The aliens caught us and were very upset. We are now awaiting rescue from the Federation.

PROBLEM
Installing an OS on one model computer and running it on another

SOLUTION
An operating system installed on one model computer, when transferred to another model computer, will not run.

TESTED
Dos 7.1
Puppy
XP


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#58
July 21, 2012 at 05:55:26
Keep taking the tablets.

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#59
July 24, 2012 at 21:12:05
Acting Captains log: Star date 3128.469

Under regulation 619 I have relieved the captain and placed myself in command. The captain has been found to be both emotionally and morally compromised by the mission at hand. He has been hereby relieved of duty and placed in medical confinement for the remainder of this mission.

Under Starfleet order 104: Section C: If the captain is found incompetent he will be dropped at the nearest star base at the convenience of this crew for further screening before being returned to Starfleet command to be medically processed out of Starfleet.

Likely


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#60
July 26, 2012 at 18:24:18
I was a story writer in college.


Have you went to college?


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