windows 98se lags damn bad in virtualbox

December 17, 2015 at 03:10:41
Specs: Peppermint 5, 1.5ghz cpu, 3.5gb ram, 1366x768 display
Hi folks,
Recently I installed 98SE on a virtual machine in virtualbox to play the old games that I own (Claw, Duke 3D, Doom 2 etc.) but the machine lags bad when it runs. I have two forums on the vbox website -
The first one
https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewt...
and the second one
https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewt...
I didn't install exactly as written (as I don't want to download all of the utilities mentioned - internet data is very costly in India) but I did a 'my version' of installation as follows -
1. Made a virtual machine by the specification given on the second link
2. Installed DOS7.2 on HDD (DOS commands only)
3. Did setup as mentioned (D:\setup /p j)
4. The setup started as any other OS setup. I didnt do all those savepoints in between, just continued.
5. Setup completed, OS hanged for the first time. I force rebooted by Host R
6. Everything went well after that. But its lagging.
7. I thought converting my screen from 16 to 32 bit would help, so I installed SciTech Display Doctor and configured as written on the second blog.
8. Having screen converted to 1024x768 32 bit, it was still lagging. The first blog says to install a CPU Idle utility, I installed Rain. (I have an Intel Pentium Pro)
9. After I started Rain, I thought lagging would stop, but it didn't.
I'm clueless right now. What should I do? Help me. Even if I have to reinstall 98SE on my virtual PC. I just need a stable working 98SE that runs my games :(
Thanks for reading.

See More: windows 98se lags damn bad in virtualbox

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#1
December 17, 2015 at 17:17:46
Do you have any idea what you're doing? Is there some reason why you don't (or can't) install Win98SE directly? What are the specs of the system you're working with?

Rain & CpuIdle are for lowering the CPU temperature & prevent overheating, especially when overclocking. What was the purpose for installing them? Did you think they would somehow prevent lag?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthr...


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#2
December 17, 2015 at 20:20:08
specs of the system is mentioned in my specs list in the question. 3.5gb RAM, 500gb HDD, installed Peppermint 5 and i dont wanna install directly because theres i lot i did in peppermint 5 that i dont wanna wash out. i love linux.
and yes, i know exactly what i am doing. if i hadnt, i woudnt have posted this either.

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#3
December 18, 2015 at 03:18:19
If you know exactly what you are doing then you are probably the best person to solve your problem. You have the advantage over most of us that you have a Windows 98 install in VirtualBox.

I've never found virtual machines to be much good for playing games.


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Related Solutions

#4
December 18, 2015 at 03:27:51
thanks for the follow up. though it wasnt about games, its about the lag. it lags damn bad and i needed a solution.

message edited by jaysarma987


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#5
December 18, 2015 at 14:34:23
It seems that Win 98 lagging in virtual box is nothing new and almost expected. See this 2009 discussion:
https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewt...

I appreciate this is not about games but ijacks "I've never found virtual machines to be much good for playing games" would fit in with the above because games are demanding.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#6
December 18, 2015 at 18:43:52
Yeah right derek. though the forum doesnt look like a solution giver, its gave me knowledge regarding those 16bit WinDOS things. Thanks for the follow up though :) I think this is a topic that will remain unsolved. Damn Virtualbox. I think I'm gonna switch to QEMU, if that's all right.

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#7
December 19, 2015 at 06:38:16
"yes, i know exactly what i am doing"

OK, then explain what you thought Rain or CpuIdle would do to help your situation? Was your system overheating while running Win98 in a VM?

message edited by riider


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#8
December 19, 2015 at 09:01:26
yeah, it did! it did run all the time and made noise and produced heat!

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#9
December 19, 2015 at 14:24:09
All CPUs produce heat. Post the temp readings & we'll let you know if it's too hot or not.

Your specs are incomplete. We have no idea which CPU you're running, or the make/model of the motherboard or graphics. All that stuff is important. AMD CPUs need a patch & too much RAM can cause problems.

How much of the RAM are you allocating to Win98 in your VM? Make sure to keep it under 512MB. And as I pointed out in one of your other posts, do not install any additional programs, games, etc until you get Win98 running properly. I can just about guarantee that you don't need Rain or CpuIdle...get rid of them & stop looking for a genie in a bottle.


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#10
December 19, 2015 at 23:46:39
i dont exactly have the readings, i dont know how to take it.
I have an Intel Pentium Pro by the way. i dont know if its AMD or not, i dont even know what it means. sorry, im not into hardware :( and the only app i installed in the 98SE is Scitech Display Doctor. and yes, i have allocated 256 mb of RAM.

message edited by jaysarma987


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#11
December 20, 2015 at 07:01:40
Well, you'd better start learning about hardware because software & hardware go hand-in-hand. I know you're experimenting with old stuff & I won't get into technical details, but a Pentium Pro (socket 8) system was not a very good choice. It is also very likely why you're having all these performance issues. You can't make up for the pitfalls of your hardware by installing snake-oil software such as Rain, CpuIdle, Scitech Display Doctor, & who knows what else. You need to determine the exact make/model of your motherboard chipset & your graphics chip, & then hunt down the proper compatible drivers & install them.

Scroll down to find the write-up on the Pentium Pro:

http://redhill.net.au/c/c-8.html

Had you gotten a socket 7 system or better yet, a super 7 system, you'd have numerous CPU choices (Pentium, AMD, IBM/Cyrix) at higher clock speeds, not to mention better motherboard chipsets, higher front side bus speeds, better memory, AGP graphics, better OS & driver support, etc.

https://ancientelectronics.wordpres...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...

message edited by riider


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#12
December 20, 2015 at 07:08:26
I would add that the more fix-all programs you install then the more your troubles are likely to increase.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#13
December 20, 2015 at 09:31:20
guys, first thing, im only 17 (turned on 24th of oct). probably younger than all of u. im learning privately. learning. learning. learning all the time. i love software and i love experimenting. but i did not have the time to learn hardware stuff maybe because of my studies. i am a bookworm too, and now my parents forced me to get a science degree. all the little info i collected and i know is just because of my hobby, my love of experimenting. its this place that i believe that would help me start a new branch of knowledge.
Speaking about the topic, its a notebook computer, HP 1000. rain detected my CPU as intel pentium pro, i dont even know what is it. regarding all those hardware info too, its not even on the manual. it says "info may vary with model". my only chance of knowing about the real hardware specs is unscrewing up all those little knots on my notebook, a kind of risk that im afraid to take. i desperately want to, but i fear that i might damage something.
one note to you guys - yeah im not that expert in hardware. im just a amateur who *dreams* to have a career connected to computers. riider, i appreciate you saying that my google skill needs to be improved, and that using rain cpuidle whatever would not solve anything, i also feel bad too, personally. its not my intention to trouble you guys. i just want to learn. and regarding my google skills, im nt allowed to use internet all the time :(
"Had you gotten a socket 7 system or better yet, a super 7 system, you'd have numerous CPU choices (Pentium, AMD, IBM/Cyrix) at higher clock speeds, not to mentionbetter motherboard chipsets, higher front side bus speeds, bettermemory, AGP graphics, better OS & driver support, etc."
and im sorry i didnt understand this things. socket 7, super 7, ibm cyrix clock speed and rest. being a software addict, i was of the kind like "one doesnt work then try another!" and eventually something works.
the only three socket i knew about in my lifetime are USB, headphone slot and charger slot. knowledge regarding html, batch, c , little java, vbasic, i know all that stuff. bt hardware just. just flies away :(
im sorry, im still trying to learn, and i hopefully will, someday.

message edited by jaysarma987


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#14
December 20, 2015 at 11:31:42
"im still trying to learn, and i hopefully will, someday"

You never stop learning. As one of my bosses used to say, you just end up confused at a higher level.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#15
December 20, 2015 at 18:24:54
Many of the contributors in these forums, myself included, have been working with computers for longer than you've been alive.

"its a notebook computer, HP 1000"

I don't think I've seen that info posted before. I thought you were working with a desktop computer, not a laptop. Are you sure it has a Pentium Pro processor? I could be wrong, but I don't think the Pro was ever used in laptops. It wasn't very popular for desktops either; it was mostly used in servers & workstations. Look at the underside of the laptop for the exact model number.


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#16
December 20, 2015 at 22:29:25
exact model number? okay. something like "self declaration - conforming to IS 13252(Part 1):2010,R,-41000949"
and has a sticker of pentium but not pentium pro. plus it has s sticker of ubuntu OS. i was actually awarded this PC from our government for my excellence in studies. maybe its not an original piece, maybe refurbished, idk. what do you experts suggest?

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#17
December 21, 2015 at 15:56:58
That's not the model number. That's a certification for the Indian market. IS = Indian Standard; 2010 is the date of the standard. So the oldest the laptop can be is about 5 yrs (2010) but it could possibly be newer. That is why knowing your model number & hardware specs is so important. Saying you had a Pentium Pro CPU really had me confused about what you are working with.

Since you're running Linux, try using I-Nex to identify your hardware:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/...

http://i-nex.linux.pl/install/

EDIT: I also found this: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification...

message edited by riider


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#18
December 21, 2015 at 16:31:47
I-nex. ok will give it a try and drop back with results :)

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#19
December 22, 2015 at 04:57:15
ok, so i-nex is refusing to run. it needs a lot of dependencies.
and btw i use peppermint 5, not ubuntu :) i like the interface, and it does everything ubuntu does and runs everything ubuntu runs.
i have a tiny utility though, "system profiler and benchmark" which displays all my system info.
i created a report for u guys -
http://jaysarma987.xxxpart.com/file...
uploaded just now, by me. dont mind the domain name though, its not an adult site lol its the only domain i got for free 5 minutes ago :) what can you gather by the info? is there anything you need?

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#20
December 22, 2015 at 16:32:57
All we need is you coming back, good job so far.

Just a note about the attempted Rain program - where you perhaps trying to slow down your CPU? Throttle is one program that I have used for that since 98 might not fly right at 2 GHz, it comes in both windows and DOS mode flavors and just wastes CPU cycles so end result is everything done at a slower pace and without creating heat in the process.

I notice in the report 256MB of memory used - have you set this system wide then, when perhaps this setting belongs in just the virtual machine setup for 98 only. The rest of the time the entire memory should be allowed to be used I would think.

Only issue I can deduce is that the virtual box needs to run interference for you, you have a dual core CPU and 98 doesn't do dual cores. Hopefully the virtual box is able to 'kill' one core (temporarily) such that 98 can use the active one and this actually can work then, but I don't know that much about virtual machines or how they go about doing what they do. You have more experience in that arena than I do. Best of luck and congrats on the awarded machine.

Lee


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#21
December 22, 2015 at 18:58:50
thank you melee5 :) its awarded to me a year ago btw. and ya, i have allocated only one core to my VM, not two. maybe rain detected my pc as intel pentium pro but i dont have the "pro" lol the link of the above text file says i have an "intel pentium". maybe running rain for the configuration of pentium pro may be. i have to try with the rain configuration for intel pentium now. meanwhile, i m gonna wait for riider to reply for furthur steps, except that one that i mentioned.
u guys have been great to me. thank you all :)

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#22
December 27, 2015 at 19:14:01
The reason I focused on 256 MB memory is that in some BIOS setup screens there is an option to limit memory to this exact amount and it's really not needed these days since it wound up being a BIOS setting back in the day when 98 might be installed for real and it does have this issue with too much ram. Once 98 was installed, one was supposed make modifications to system.ini file and then go back into the BIOS and remove the limit settings.

So if you have the system set for only 256MB of ram then it won't EVER perform very well - see if you have that set in the BIOS to be sure this isn't an issue. While you are in there you might see what CPU information, BIOS update version number, computer model number, etc. information you find in there.

From HP site:
Turn on the computer by pressing the power button.
Immediately press the Esc key repeatedly until a startup menu appears.
Press the F1 key or select System Information from the Startup Menu.
View the identification numbers shown on the screen.

They also suggest:
On the back of a notebook
Inside the battery compartment
Under a cover on the back of the notebook

We need some valid numbers to work with.

Lee


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#23
December 27, 2015 at 23:03:41
does an OS installed in vurtualbox needs access to real hardware BIOS? i never knew that....

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#24
December 29, 2015 at 00:57:17
I can't imagine that it does jaysarma987, which is why I suggest that he may have the real hardware BIOS set way wrong with 256 MB limit enforced. I assume the virtual machine handles such issues on it's own or is a setting within that system and we don't need that ten years old setting in the BIOS anymore - but there it still is anyway with websites just as old suggesting that we set it. Without the explanation of why it's an option in the first place we can't know that we don't need it all, I'm thinking. First time I saw it in my BIOS setup, I had no clue what the devil it was so I left it alone, only later when reading about other nonsense cryptic Dell BIOS settings did I find out what they were even trying to do there.

Lee


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#25
December 29, 2015 at 03:14:40
not relevant. bios is emulated in vbox, it has nothing to do with real hardware bios.

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#26
December 29, 2015 at 09:50:09
I have no idea what you're asking anymore, lol. But I do know you have absolutely no need for Rain or CpuIdle. Also, Peppermint is Ubuntu based.

Why not just install Windows 7, install Virtual PC, & then install Win98 in a VM?


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#27
December 30, 2015 at 07:10:35
yeah, sounds great. even cool if dual booting can be set through windows install (if not, hail grub, lol), but i cannot lose peppermint 5 :)
yeah, one question - will any version of microsoft virtual pc work inside my xp sp2 vbox guest? will be awesome that way

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#28
December 31, 2015 at 14:40:09
"i cannot lose peppermint 5"

Sure you can. You can always reinstall it again.

"will any version of microsoft virtual pc work inside my xp sp2 vbox guest"

I don't think you can run a VM inside a VM.


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#29
December 31, 2015 at 19:19:11
"Sure you can. You can always reinstall it again."
bandwidth is damn costly here. All those apps that I installed, I have to install them again! :(

"I don't think you can run a VM inside a VM."
Gotta try :)


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#30
December 31, 2015 at 19:27:36
When you download apps Save them as files rather than running them online (which is a bad idea anyhow). Just double click the saved file to install them. That way they can always be re-installed without using any bandwidth at all. You never know when an app might become corrupted and require a re-install.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#31
January 2, 2016 at 07:25:12
"bandwidth is damn costly here"

What exactly does that mean? Are you using a cellular service? Or do DSL & cable internet suppliers charge by the GB?

"All those apps that I installed, I have to install them again!"

You didn't save them to the HDD or a USB stick?

"Gotta try"

I guess some people gotta learn by making mistakes. If you're going to shun the advice you get here, why bother posting questions at all?


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#32
January 2, 2016 at 09:08:30
riider, nice question.
i just felt like trying! thats it.
didnt work anyway. tried virtual pc 2007 sp1 on xpsp3 guest.
i was not "shunning" advice, i was just curious to do that. its something that can be reverted back anyway.

derek, yes im charged by GBs.
i use internet from my intex aqua r2 android 4.2.2, tethering manually through USB.
i have a sim connection, its prepaid. any data i use for internet purposes in my PC is through my phone. i dont have a cable connection.
100mb of data costs rs18, so 400mb of data would cost a little more than $1. and $1 is a sum thats worth a lot of value here in india (about rs 70 approx). salaries are given to people here as approx rs4000/month (my dad gets 3000). thats about 3% of the monthly salary gone for just 400mb.
and i need 2GBs of minimum data for my personal hobby, and downloads, to play with stuff.
thats about 15% of the monthly salary, gone.
plus school fees.
plus food (rs150/day approx)
plus other household goods.
this is assam. its not going to evolve soon.


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#33
January 2, 2016 at 10:56:58
rs3000/month is only $45. Food @ rs150/day adds up to approx rs4500/month ($68), plus with all the other stuff you mentioned, your family must be running a huge deficit. Time for jay to get a part time job.

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#34
January 2, 2016 at 17:23:05
no actually both my parents work.
we get approx rs8000/month.
and im getting my science schooling degree on may, im gonna do a part time job after that.

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#35
August 29, 2016 at 09:07:17
Hi, guys,
I was just curious to drop by here again after a long long time.
Changes after almost 9 months includes upgrading my "Peppermint 5" to "6" and dual booting it alongside Windows 8, both OSes being the 32 bit one, even if my PC supports 64bit.
Virtual PC 2007 on my Windows 8 supports Win98SE with no lags and consumes only 128mb of my total RAM. So far I'm having a peaceful computing life :) Additional softwares I installed includes Office97 and a game called VanguardAce, reliving my old days :)
I broke up with VBox on April 2016, and will probably never use it, until an eye-catcher Linux made its release again.
Adios!

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#36
August 29, 2016 at 10:09:38
Just to prove that we still get flagged up on old posts that we've input on.
Good to hear from you again and thanks for the update.

Always pop back and let us know the outcome - thanks


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#37
September 6, 2016 at 07:46:02
Yes, the update, well, when people searches on google for the solution of lags in Win98se installed on VBox, this forum pops out in the first page. After going through this, people had actually searched for "jaysarma987" on google and facebook and line and what not else, and personally admired me and said its a great post. I still remember, one of my teachers was reading this, and she talked about my forum to our entire class, and everybody clapped for me :)
This forum has been life changing for me. So I decided to get back.
Thanks again for all your contributions! Adios!

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#38
April 27, 2017 at 16:55:13
@riider Man you have got to be the most annoying person alive.

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