troubles partitioning a drive

August 9, 2019 at 11:23:32
Specs: Windows 7, 8GB
I'm trying to perform the following: I would like to make a given USB drive bootable, and for that it apparently needs a FAT32 formatting. But, I need just a couple of Gigabytes for that, and the USB disk is 32 Gigs.

So, I would like to create a bootable disk, with a FAT32 parition that is about 4 Gigs. And then ... the remaining space (32-4 Gig) may be another partition. But, in NTFS formatting.

The FAT32 partition is OK. Not sure it is bootable but that'll be all right. But this NTFS partition is not working ... I can create a partition, I can format it ...

.. and then diskmgmt doesn't want to do a lot with it. It just says : 28G. It doesnt say it is NTFS, it doesnt want to re-format it, it doesn't want to change driveletter.

I did the partitioning with MiniTool, and in there I can see it is an NTFS, it even has a drive letter. In Windows though (explorer) it doesn't show this drive at all.

It does show my FAT32 partition drive ...

What is going on ? If I can format it, and change drive letter (in MiniTool), why doesn't any Windows tool wants to show the drive. Diskpart doesnt list that partition as a volume (all other volumes are displayed nicely).


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#1
August 9, 2019 at 12:02:15
What you are trying to do should be feasable, that being said let me ask you about the drive itself.

There are many bogus flash drives coming from China that claim to be a certain size but aren't. They modify the firmware on the drive to report a larger capacity than it really is.

Who is the manufacture of this drive? If it's a brand name we can look at other problems. If this is a no name brand, that could be your issue.


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#2
August 9, 2019 at 12:10:20
It's an EMTEC 32Gig, like the one with the see-through colored plastic

It's a pretty new one, havent used it fully.But it's from an actual shop (a decent branch)


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#3
August 9, 2019 at 13:44:53
I tried doing it on an old flash drive using EaseUS Partition Master. I got the following warning when attempting to create a 2nd partition out of unallocated space:

"Windows only recognize the 1st primary partition on a removable device. If no primary partitions, only the 1st logical partition is recognized."

message edited by riider


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#4
August 9, 2019 at 21:22:15
The only real reason you might need to use NTFS is to surpass the 4 gig file size limit of FAT32. Are you working with files larger than 4 gigs in size?

message edited by THX 1138


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#5
August 10, 2019 at 01:18:57
riider, I think I saw some similar message at some point. But I don't understand what it means. So it can't be a logical and it can't be a primary either ? What else exists ?

I also tried to create a second partition in FAT32, and that also didn't work.

message edited by Looge


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#6
August 10, 2019 at 04:04:52
"I don't understand what it means. So it can't be a logical and it can't be a primary either ?"

I believe it means there can only be a single partition.


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#7
August 10, 2019 at 05:44:35
I understand the words, but not the concept :)

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#8
August 10, 2019 at 05:54:24
> The only real reason you might need to use NTFS is
> to surpass the 4 gig file size limit of FAT32. Are you
>working with files larger than 4 gigs in size?

The MediaCreationTool creates a bootable FAT32 drive in order to allow boot and installing Windows 10 on a given machine. It doesn't have many options, like choosing NTFS versus FAT and it chooses FAT because that is compatible with BIOS and UEFI systems. Ironically, it seems that UEFI has an issue with NTFS boot devices. Or USB boot devices.

But whatever, it forces FAT32 on my 32 Gig disk

So, what happens when you copy OTHER files onto that disk which are 4G +
Well, different errors occur, and that is because FAT is an obsolete file-system which is sadly enough also the only compatible and backwards compatible filesystem.

So, I still want to write 4G+ files to my FAT formatted device. Introduce : partitioning !
Let the first bootable partition be FAT32, and the rest : NTFS ...


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#9
August 10, 2019 at 06:32:36
I converted the drive from Primary to a Logical type, but then the issue remains:
I can add another partition, FAT or NTFS, I can assign a drivelettet, but Windows doesn't accept this new partition.
MiniTool silently removes the driveletter again, after having it added at first.

I know MediaCreation tool is creating a Primary partition, which may be the cause of ALL problems, but changing it to Logical doesnt work. I cannot change it to GPT however.
Diskpart says: you can't convert a CD-ROM or DVD disk.

I think the partition type is the issue here. I'll be trying to find out why GPT is not an option. All my internal drives are GPT, none of these is Primary, none of these is Logical ... All of the drives have 2 or 3 partitions, although only one of them has a driveletter.


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#10
August 10, 2019 at 16:32:09

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#11
August 11, 2019 at 14:14:27
Rufus is nice but the problem is not creating a bootable drive, the problem is creating another partition.

I'm curious why I just can't create 2 partitions on an USB stick.

I think it is because the disk is still configured as bootable, and it messes everything up. This specific part (the bootable disk thing) is something which still seems like a mystery to me. I know you can't remove that by formatting a given disk. I used to think so, but then I understood I'm just cleaning the partition. The bootable part is not within this partition.

message edited by Looge


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#12
August 11, 2019 at 15:48:34
Malvastyle USB Repair
https://www.softpedia.com/get/Syste...
https://malvastyle.com/disk-repair-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZp...

How To Partition USB Drives In Windows 10 Using Disk Management
http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-p...

Bootice 32-bit
https://www.softpedia.com/get/Syste...
Bootice 64-bit
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/det...
http://www.ipauly.com/

How to Remove/Delete Hidden Partition on USB Drive in Windows 10/8/7?
https://www.disk-partition.com/arti...

message edited by Johnw


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#13
August 12, 2019 at 09:36:09
> How To Partition USB Drives In Windows 10 Using Disk Management
> http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-p...

John, this thread is created in the Windows 7 forum section, and I have listed I am running Windows 7.


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#14
August 12, 2019 at 09:51:31
So, it's time for some conclusions. I was wrong in thinking it is because of the bootable partitiong formatting.

The problem is that in Windows 7, Windows does not support any but 1 partition on a removable drive.

This issue also existed in Windows 10, but some (recent) upgrade has dealt with it.

But, in Windows 7, this will remain an issue, probably forever.

Now, how do I end up here in the first place ? That is because of lack of support by both Microsoft and UEFI to fully support the NTFS filetype.

It's been at least a decade that FAT32 is "replaced" by NTFS, but not everybody wants to agree with that. It's irony that Windows doesn't like it, but ..

Otherwise, I would have an NTFS USB disk, to which you can boot and install Windows 10 on BIOS and on UEFI.

I feel that the "backwards compatible"-ness of FAT32 is abused in that way, to hide the fact that NTFS is unwanted.

So this leaves a bit of a mess.

Solutions, there are some.

1. Use a different USB device (FAT32 to boot, an NTFS for data). This was the option I thought may be the best.
2. Try to set your USB key (pendrive) to "non-removable". This can be done by changing the RMB. Google: flip the RMB bit
You need special software to do that, and it may be dangerous :)
3. Upgrade to Windows 10. Ironically, I am creating this USB to ... upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 10.
Or just: create this disk in Windows 10, and use it in Windows 10. Fact is: most of my Windows are 7.

There is however 1 solution that fits MY problem ... if it works:
Setting up the first partition as NTFS, and THEN creating a FAT32 partition.
That way the FAT32 cannot be seen and has no driveletter, but I just need it to boot.
The thing is: will the MediaCreation tool allow me to point to that partition ? I think not.
Or, will Rufus/EasuUS allow that ? Given they work inside Windows, I doubt it ---- EDIT --- > This solution doesn't work. The Media Creation tool only allows setting up partitions which it can show using a driveletter.

message edited by Looge


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#15
August 12, 2019 at 13:44:45
I'm not fully understanding why you want to do what you're proposing. Do you want to run Win10 directly from a bootable USB stick? That can be done. I don't know where the FAT32 partition comes in & why you feel you need it?

https://www.pcmag.com/article/35220...


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#16
August 12, 2019 at 19:47:39
Windows 7 supports booting to NTFS at least for internal drives and UEFI boot is supported with a patch (older BIOS' may need to be updated). I use NTFS on flash drives that I do not intend to use on non-windows environments (though I do not have any I made bootable). I am currently booting to a UEFI PCIe SSD drive with Windows 7.

https://www.computing.net/howtos/sh...

You might have made your life easier if you just created the Windows 10 install disk to a DVD disk instead.

You have to be a little bit crazy to keep you from going insane.


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#17
August 13, 2019 at 10:46:46
> I'm not fully understanding why you want to do what you're proposing.
> Do you want to run Win10 directly from a bootable USB stick? That
> can be done. I don't know where the FAT32 partition comes in & why
> you feel you need it?
>
> Windows 7 supports booting to NTFS at least for internal drives and
> UEFI boot is supported with a patch (older BIOS' may need to be
> updated). I use NTFS on flash drives that I do not intend to use
> on non-windows environments (though I do not have any I made
> bootable). I am currently booting to a UEFI PCIe SSD drive with
> Windows 7.
>
> https://www.computing.net/howtos/sh...
>
> You might have made your life easier if you just created the Windows
> 10 install disk to a DVD disk instead.


I'll summarize the issue that is discussed in this thread:
Trying to create an additional partition on a USB key (aka pendrive)
( in Windows 7 )

That's it :)
The only "booting" issue is the choice of method to CREATE the boot
disk:
- using the MS Media Creation tool
- using Rufus, or EaseUs, ... to create the bootable device

The first doesn't seem to create NTFS drives, the latter: not sure.
Keep in mind, I will need to boot into BIOS and UEFI

DVD booting : been there, done that. I mean, that adds a layer of complexity. Most machines don't have a reader, my main machine has and even my Windows 7 boot doesn't work, etc. etc.
Also, can you leave the session open to add and edit files on such a DVD ? And at the same time make the DVD readable on very different machines ? Knowing the "flexibility" of optical drives, I think not. One thing is sure, no FAT32-crap on DVD's

message edited by Looge


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#18
August 17, 2019 at 04:11:57
Solution, including long term support

1. If the Media Creation Tool is used:

Windows 7, up until 14/jan/2020:
- use different USB sticks for FAT32 and NTFS (the FAT32 being the bootable one, and NTFS being the data one)

Windows 10:
- assure patch: Windows 10 1703 for the "USB Stick multi partition support"
ref.:
https://social.technet.microsoft.co...
https://borncity.com/win/2017/04/22...
Then do whatever you want because the OS allows partitioning.

2. Use any other bootable drive creation software like Rufus or EasyUS to create NTFS bootable drives, or use Windows 10, setup a FAT32 boot partition and an NTFS data partition. Because Windows 7 doesn't allow partitioning.

message edited by Looge


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