Why every death is God plans?

April 9, 2012 at 01:21:01
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Why every time when death happens most people says it is God plans?
Recent some big celebrity died because his teenager girlfriend hit him in the head and everybody(media included) says that is how God plans to take him. If i took a gun and shot somebody it is a God plans, car accidents God plans, war God plans, what the f***? I am sick of associate every human death with God plans.

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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#1
April 9, 2012 at 04:40:11
Well, that's a good start on your part. To not accept things at face value is how every great thinker began. When people make a blanket statement like that, it means they don't know, and most likely are too lazy to investigate further. Too lazy or too scared. Both will cripple you.

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#2
April 9, 2012 at 04:55:34
God as we know it in terms of Catholic / CoE / Koran / Jewish did not exist till around 2000 years ago, therefore "Gods Plan" is no defence.

Also until fairly recently in the evolution of man, everything was word of mouth, so therefore I can say by word of mouth it was the "Sugar Plum Fairy" which made me do something inexplicable !

Googling is quicker than waiting for an answer....


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#3
April 9, 2012 at 14:41:58
The one I have trouble with is when a plane crashes and only one walks away out of 250, that person often says God was watching over him/her. To me that begs a certain question....


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#4
April 9, 2012 at 16:42:39
In keeping with the “Gods Plan” theme here I am going to offer up a hypothetical. In the fact that this deals with both religion and death I am sure some will be offended. Maybe I can throw in some politics and offend most. That is not my intent so I will apologize now.

Okay the hypothetical: A postal worker working at a sorting facility intercepts a letter going to his home. The letter is informing him that his Netflix membership is being canceled. With everything else that is going on in his life this puts him over the proverbial edge. On his next break he goes out to his vehicle and retrieves a fully automatic weapon. Upon returning to the facility he opens fire killing eleven of his coworkers before turning the weapon on himself. One of the coworkers was the nephew of the state’s governor.

The governor enraged by this calls for a bill that bans firearms altogether. The NRA, not to be out done; stages several state wide protests. At one of the protests things get out of hand and both police and protesters open fire killing thirty seven and wounding twenty one.

Was it gods plan to take these forty nine souls and leave twenty one with a life forever changed?
How was this plan set in motion? Was it the many issues this man had or did god just feel that taking this man’s Netflix membership would be enough to cause a breakdown?
In god’s plan were both these incidents even related?
Was Satan involved at all and did god solicit his help?

Likely


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#5
April 9, 2012 at 16:45:43
Not long ago a bad accident happened and killed 2 people(they were 3 people inside), one of them (a pregnant woman) her head was chopped. The guy who survived the accident pulled out from the car without a single scratch. I don't think it is a God fault the accident happened(the fact is those big lorries they are known for having bad brakes) . As grasshopper stated most likely are too lazy to investigate further and i think they say God plans so that they feel better(the dude is in heaven).
The cause of the accident was the tanker lost brakes and loose direction(shift to another highway).
http://richard-mwaikenda.blogspot.c...

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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#6
April 9, 2012 at 17:22:13
This thread would seem to become a hotbed of discussion. When you consider that everything that happens in the world is as a result of a circumstance or a set of circumstances God really has nothing to do with it. A drink affected driver is speeding along a highway, loses control and ploughs head on into an oncoming car killing that driver and his family. The minister at the subsequent funeral says "it is God's will" that these poor souls lost their lives. God had nothing to do with it but the circumstances did! The minister (and other sympathisers) salve their consciousnesses by "blaming" God and they are providing a reason for the happening. We blame God and Fate and pure bad luck for most of these occurrences because they are easier to believe.

(Just my thoughts... with apologies to true believers)


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#7
April 9, 2012 at 17:32:51
@likelystory
Killing yourself while others are struggling to keep their lives is wrong.

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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#8
April 9, 2012 at 23:56:01
The way I look at it, most religions teach that there is a better life to come after this one. So, if we believe there is a God, we should celebrate death, and praise those who speed people to this better life. The guy who survives the plane crash is the unlucky one; he should be cursing God, not praising him. The mass murderer should be given a reward for his good work, not incacerated.

That's the logical result of the premise. So either it's logically true or the premise is false. You decide.


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#9
April 10, 2012 at 05:34:07
God was only an entity created by many learned men and scholars in the past, with the sole purpose of making lay men practice science, so that they wouldn't question anything they do not understand.

They would not question it, because it was "God's will"....


But as man started evolving, he found it easier to hold God responsible for everything, either good or bad.

This is a very unhealthy thing to do.

But i'm not asking everyone to be an atheist. We can believe in God... I'm a believer too...

But i live by the principle "I am solely responsible for whatever happens to me"

If you die, it is because of something YOU did, and not anyone else...

Don't u dare pull God into any of these.


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#10
April 10, 2012 at 05:55:41
So the other 249 should not have taken the flight?

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#11
April 10, 2012 at 08:26:12
I personally don't like your example likelystory because I'm a gun owner and I'm sick and tired of guns being blamed for the actions of people.

I have owned firearms my entire life. For 41 years I've owned multiple firearms and never once has a single one of my guns loaded itself, walked out my door and proceeded to kill people. It's worth noting I've never killed anybody either. Neither have any of the many, many people I know and am related to that also own guns.

I would have preferred you said the postal worker used a golf club or baseball bat. Your example just gives the antigun types more fuel for their fire even though blaming guns for the actions of people makes no sense.

Regardless, the man in your example did what he did because he was mentally unbalanced and it had nothing to do with God. And, yes, I get that you weren't making an antigun statement there, you were just making an example.

As to the question of God.....I believe most people need something to believe in to help them through the bad times. They congregate in groups (churches) and worship together. When one member of the 'flock' suffers a loss, the rest get together with that person to help ease them through their pain and suffering. This isn't a bad thing. We all deal with things differently. I'm more likely to go off on my own than I am to want to be around other people when I'm hurting. But if being surrounded by other people and having them tell you "It was God's plan" makes you feel better and helps you through the hurt, then I say all the power to you.

I don't understand the people who blame God when bad things happen. God doesn't make a guy drink, then jump in his car and drive it. God doesn't look at a little child and say "You must die from leukemia".

Weak people blame God, or others for grief they cause themselves or hurt that happens unaccountably. A lot of what happens in this world doesn't make sense........that's a part of the whole process. Does God exist or not doesn't really matter.

I do exist and I'm going to live each day to the fullest. I won't blame God, or anybody else, when I mess up. I won't blame God when somebody else does wrong, or evil. I also won't say it was "His plan" when someone I love dies. Dieing is a part of life, it's just the final act.

It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#12
April 10, 2012 at 14:25:23
I am not an atheist, I do believe in a higher power, but I know people have to believe in something...it makes the world go round. Thus we have God, Jesus, Budha, etc...they all think they have the answers.
I also believe people to not have to go to any specific place like a church, temple, etc to give tips to the speaker. Did you ever notice that the people that speak in these places live in better homes, drive better cars, etc than you? That comes from your tips....go figure!
People can worship in their own homes, it has the same effect and one more note: don't be fooled....anyone can go to college to become a minister....they are NOT born into it...

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#13
April 10, 2012 at 15:50:45
I don't now nor would I ever blame a gun. I blame poor judgement on the part of the gun handler.


Edit: Actually Curt R I do more or less agree with you. I own guns myself. As for the fact that you don't like my example becuase I used a gun in it, I don't really give a flying leap. I used a gun in my example because I have never picked up the paper and read about anyone going postal and killing numorous people with a golf club. Are the anti gun nuts gaining ground do to my example? I very much doubt it. Besides if I had used a golf club as the weapon then I would have some golf nut giving me grief rather than some gun nut.
Likely


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#14
April 10, 2012 at 22:02:08
To follow up on Derek's 'sole survivor' scenario, everyone would agree that person was lucky to be alive. Now suppose he goes out and has some kids. Would we also say his kids are lucky to be alive? Probably not. Life doesn't miss what never was but yet they're as 'lucky' to exist as their parent.

Now think back in time, through all the generations of your ancestors, back to whatever you call the beginning of life. If any one of your ancestors had not survived long enough to produce the next member of your lineage you wouldn't exist!

How many hundreds, thousands (millions?) of generations is that? Not a single one of them could have died in a car wreck, fallen off a cliff, got bitten by a cobra, been killed in a war, been run over by a Roman chariot, been eaten by a saber tooth tiger, . . . well you get the idea. . . until the next generation was conceived.

What are the odds? You are truly lucky to be alive.


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#15
April 11, 2012 at 08:00:57
LOL likelystory

In the US "going postal" means some postal worker lost his mind and shot a bunch of people. In Canada "going postal" means some poor citizen lost his mind because of the hassles of dealing with Canada post and killed one, or more, postal workers.

I understood why you used firearms in your example. I'm just saying that doing so gives some (weak minded) people the wrong impression and fuels a fire that you know exists as well as I do........especially if you are a gun owner. You could have just said the dude killed a bunch of people without saying anything about what he used to do the killing. Your example was about the end result, not the means and I'm afraid I'm sidetracking the topic at hand.

BTW, I wasn't trying to say YOU were blaming the gun....upon rereading my response I see it could easily have been taken that way. My apologies.

Back to the question at hand....

As I said, I believe that for the majority, God is a convenient place to put blame when things go wrong and a crutch when something bad happens and people are hurting. Not everybody needs this but it appears the majority do.

Oh and just FYI xpuser4real those aren't "tips". It's called a "tithe" and it's given to support the church. That's how they pay rent and buy pretty gold chalices.

You "tip" a waitress, you pay "tithes" to the church. If I'm not mistaken, one is supposed to tithe about 10% of their income to the church each year. Nice deal for the churches.......isn't it.

It's worth noting that the Roman Catholic church is one of the biggest businesses on earth.......and one of the richest too. Granted, that's not all thanks to tithing........a lot of it was plunder from umpteen "Crusades" and the result of the church taking posession of all "worldly goods" of the people it convicted of heresy during the inquisition....you know, it's funny how often "church" has so little to do with "God" and so much to do with the almighty dollar........

It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#16
April 11, 2012 at 08:12:58
Oh and just FYI xpuser4real those aren't "tips". It's called a "tithe" and it's given to support the church. That's how they pay rent and buy pretty gold chalices.

I tend to disagree with that. I have talked to some ministers, they mentioned it to me. Churches do many fund raisers, bingos, etc etc to help pay the bills.

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#17
April 11, 2012 at 10:47:37
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tithe

tithe (t)
n.
1.
a. A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
b. The institution or obligation of paying tithes.
2. A tax or assessment of one tenth.
3.
a. A tenth part.
b. A very small part.
v. tithed, tith·ing, tithes
v.tr.
1. To contribute or pay a tenth part of (one's annual income).
2. To levy a tithe on.
v.intr.
To pay a tithe.


It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#18
April 11, 2012 at 13:00:52
A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
There you go...why would someone pay to worship...you don't need a hall to worship in, your own home is just fine. There are enough taxes and levies in the world, never mind paying out more...I work hard enough for my money and I DON'T support them....

Some HELP in posting on Computing.net plus free progs and instructions 7 Golds


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#19
April 11, 2012 at 14:51:12
Because the faithful have doubts and need reinforcement (guidance) periodically. Paying make them feel good because they feel they have sacreficed.

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#20
April 11, 2012 at 23:46:33
@ Curt R Apology accepted though not needed. We are all just people giving our own opinions here. Without the aid of vocal inflection or body language the typed word can be taken too many ways. I see your point about not needing to mention the gun at all and I agree. I guess I have read too many newspapers. lol

"A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.” This definition to me is contradicting itself. “Either you pay voluntarily or we will tax it out of you.” I can’t think of any one subject that is surer to cause anger than the church or religion.

The whole idea of giving a tithe to the church is where I part ways with the church entirely. I bust my but to earn my pay and I get taxed for it. Then I am supposed to give some to some group so they can buy up prime property, limousines, and fancy trips to places like Las Vegas and not pay a dime in taxes? I don’t think so.

Growing up in the south I know not all churches are like this. Within four miles of my home I have churches ranging from not much more than a shack that you could barely get fifty people in up to multimillion dollar extravagant places where the pastor or whatever this religion calls them is driven up in a limo.

I understand the idea of a “Non Profit” but if they are truly nonprofit how do they afford an Olympic sized swimming pool at the church? What the heck is that for anyway? It seems that they just find a way to claim that they spent all the money they took in then I should be eligible for this “Non Profit” status.

I am really trying to stay clear of the whole “Gods Plan” thing. I have very strong beliefs where as god is concerned and they are not opened for discussion. If I try to think in the direction of god having a complete plan for us that leads me to the idea that we are nothing more than slaves. Maybe he wants plastic and found it to be difficult work so wah lah here we are.

I am not going to blame god or anyone else for my lot in life. On that note no one else will get credit when my life is all roses either. I have been lucky enough in my life that my parents allowed me to make up my own mind about religion. If someone feels they need that building filled with all those cackling old hens to help them get by I see no reason why I can’t allow them that until they tell me that my way is wrong.

This is where I have parted ways with religion in general. They all talk a good game until you tell them your beliefs are different. Many I have found that even if you read word for word from the book they are trying to preach at you from they will argue their point to no end.

My way is the only right way for me. If their way is right for them more power to them.

Likely


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#21
April 12, 2012 at 00:22:15
Tithe = This is the pastor salary, the church get nothing from this money. Here people pay it every month.

The money that helps to pay church bills is the money that u pay when u go to church every sunday. The pastor get nothing from this money.

They have luxury stuff and i have seen some of them bragging, hey i drive mercedes benz or i have private plane. They also claim that they have their own businesses and don't take church money.

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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#22
April 12, 2012 at 00:34:24
"They have luxury stuff and i have seen some of them bragging, hey i drive mercedes benz or i have private plane. They also claim that they have their own businesses and don't take church money."
Have to wonder about that...

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#23
April 12, 2012 at 07:27:58
Religion always has, and always will be a "hot" topic for me.

The reason I made the distinction between the money given in church being a "tithe" and not a "tip" is mainly because, you tip someone for doing a good job.........lol.......like a waitress or cab driver.

All churches are supported by their membership. This makes sense since they aren't a business that produces anything that can be sold to make money. I always objected to the "tax" part of it. A tithe should be voluntary, not forced.

It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#24
April 12, 2012 at 08:13:23
Churches own bussinesses, i know this one church here that owns a TV station, a farm, a seminary school and a bank. They produce books and choir dvd's and sell them to their members, nowdays church is a big bussiness.

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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#25
April 12, 2012 at 12:13:37
Although there are churches in which pastors take advantage of their sheep, there are also pleanty of churches who donate to places where they feed the homeless and give away food...

Sometimes people's different views and believes about God makes them blind and creates chaos, and it is because we are so sightless and without vision that we fail to see that God only wants us to live in peace and harmony.

YOLO


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#26
April 12, 2012 at 15:27:27
There was a church about nine or ten miles from our home that I was told was built between 1900 and 1920. I attended this church on occasion with friends in that area. Through the ‘70’s and ‘80’s it was a small neighborhood type of church that sat on a very large piece of property just outside of what I think most would refer to as the inner city area.

In the late ‘80’s those who worshiped there were told the church was bankrupt and would be closing. This is during the time when revivals were gaining strength. Not long after it closed it was destroyed and this giant monstrosity erected in its place. There was also a large heavy rod iron fence put up around the property. When this new “church” opened those that worshiped at the old church were made to feel unwelcomed there.

By the way this church was smack dab in the middle of what was once called hooker alley. lol This was the first church that I had ever seen that had a staff and the staff used to hang out at the fence screaming back and forth with the hookers on weekend nights. The pastor who came in from someplace up north was put up in a $3 million dollar home just off a fancy golf course here.

This church did produce things. Every Sunday as you would be leaving the service a staff member would somewhat strongly suggest you order a DVD of the service you just attended for $45 or a cassette tape for $16. It also seemed to produce many drunk drivers as there have been several accidents and dui arrests just outside the church property on Sunday afternoons over the years. Add in the hookers and a few protesters and the church also produced a good deal of anger in the area.

I guess the revival circuit kind of died out a few years ago maybe due to the economy but this put a big bite on this church. It is all but closed now and there is at least one investigation going on over the money that flowed through there with no tax paid. I’m not sure who actually owns the building and the property but I understand they have been trying to get the city to buy it for several million dollars. That first pastor that was living in the $3 million home was indicted on tax evasion charges a couple years ago. I don’t know what ever came of that.

Likely


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