Hoarders got you down or Got Bleach?

Microsoft Office xp professional
April 7, 2020 at 00:46:21
Specs: Windows XP SP 3, P-4 1 gig
So I was wandering around walmart the other day wondering if they hid their bleach somewhere when a gallon jug that said 'chlorinating liquid' caught my eye. The ingredients said 'sodium hypochlorite 10%'. Dave, I said, isn't that bleach? I went home and checked the Clorox bottle and it said 'sodium hypochlorite 7.5%'. I went back to walmart and bought 2 gallons of the stuff, went home and diluted it to 3 parts sodium hypochlorite to 1 part water to match Clorox's 7.5%.

Anyway if you're having problems finding bleach (and I'm sure your are) in these turbulent, fake crises times, you might give that a shot. The brand name was 'Pool Essentials', although there might be generics, and was located with their pool cleaning supplies. No doubt hardware stores or other places with pool cleaning supplies carry it also.


See More: Hoarders got you down or Got Bleach?

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#1
April 7, 2020 at 01:28:25
Costco (in the UK, and presumably in Canada/USA too) sell a thick bleach concentrate (which includes 5% assorted extras as typically found in most versions sold wherever). They recommend to dilute the concentrate for laundry use - 50mls to 10litres water, thus creating a 0.5% solution.

One can jiggle/adjust the figures to create a 7.5% dilution accordingly, if needs-be?

They sell it in cases of ten (1 litre bottles) which will last an age, and thus is usually much cheaper per bottle than usual supermarkets etc..

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#2
April 7, 2020 at 03:46:21
in these turbulent, fake crises times

Sorry to hear you do not believe the current pandemic is not a real crises.

MIKE

http://www.skeptic.com/


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#3
April 7, 2020 at 04:36:53
I think DinCaps was referring the slew of fake alerts, tips etc. which are circulating under the guise of being genuine and related to the Chinese gift?


Edited per trvlr to correct an incorrect reference.

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Related Solutions

#4
April 7, 2020 at 09:49:41
It's more of a crisis than you know. Follow the bouncing ball:

In 2010, The Rockefeller Foundation produced a report titled "Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development". The scenario called "Lock Step" (page 18) describes a hypothetical pandemic that "had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers."
https://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/p...

In Oct 2019, Event 201, the pandemic "exercise" took place. When questioned about the timing, the response was "we modeled a fictional coronavirus pandemic, but we explicitly stated that it was not a prediction". Bill Gates was involved. http://www.centerforhealthsecurity....

Several months later, we're deep into the CV crisis & the response to contain it. Bill Gates is involved in the response effort. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/The...

Planning has begun on how to get us back to work & our "normal" lives; however, there's concern about how to do that without re-triggering the pandemic. A way of confirming your COVID status will be needed, so a method of "digital certification" is being discussed. Once again, Bill Gates is involved.
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/A...

Enter ID2020. Microsoft & The Rockefeller Foundation are part of the Alliance. https://id2020.org/

Draw your own conclusions.

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#5
April 7, 2020 at 09:56:16
Yeah obviously the virus is a problem. It appears to be about as deadly as the yearly flu versions but is more easily spread meaning you may be more likely to get it but your odds of survival are in the upper 90 percentages. I just don't think panicking and shutting down the world economy is the way to go.

I got a kick out of finding the bleach. I wonder if the hoarders will figure it out and empty the pool supply shelves too. Paper towels and toilet paper are somewhat making a comeback, although variety is limited. I still can't find some basics like rubbing alcohol.


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#6
April 7, 2020 at 11:43:12
re: "I just don't think panicking and shutting down the world economy is the way to go."

We obviously need some background for that comment.

Are you equating "social distancing" with "panicking and shutting down the world economy"?

If so, does that mean that you don't think social distancing is working to stop the spread?

I'm not be argumentative, I simply don't know what your deeper thoughts are on the matter. What is your definition of "panicking" (in this situation) and what (if it's something other than social distancing) is shutting down the world economy?

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#7
April 7, 2020 at 15:04:15
Depending on local politics, malls and any business deemed 'non essential' is closed by government fiat. On a local radio talk show just this afternoon a person called in wanting to know who to tattle to about a non-closure. Millions of additional people have filed for unemployment because the government has closed their place of business. No doubt bankruptcies and foreclosures will soar as those effects filter through society. The stock market has lost almost a third of its value in a month. This is happening all over the industrialized world. That's what I mean when I say 'I don't think panicking and shutting down the world economy is the way to go'.

Here they've just enacted new regulations, one of which is if you're waiting in line to enter an essential business or even within that business and don't stand at least 6 feet from the next person you're subject to a $1000 fine. And what's just as irksome is most people accept it. Has everyone gone nuts? If I was a conspiracy buff I'd think this was a secret social experiment conducted by some clandestine group of world-order kooks designed to see how easy it would be to strip us of our constitutional rights. If so the answer to that is "pretty darned easy".

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#8
April 7, 2020 at 17:10:28
re: "This is happening all over the industrialized world."

Yes, yes it is.

re: "That's what I mean when I say 'I don't think panicking and shutting down the world economy is the way to go'."

And your alternative plan is...? What is your idea of "the way to go"?

Seriously, what is your plan for keeping me alive if "social distancing" rules are nothing but a "panic response"?


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#9
April 7, 2020 at 19:18:50
" If I was a conspiracy buff I'd think this was a secret social experiment conducted by some clandestine group of world-order kooks designed to see how easy it would be to strip us of our constitutional rights."

Where in the constitution does it state that you have the inalienable right to potentially infect someone with a deadly pathogen?

You might be a little more concerned with the situation if you had an elderly sister in a nursing-home during an outbreak (as I do)...

"Channeling the spirit of jboy..."


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#10
April 7, 2020 at 21:46:32
I have been thinking about most of the above ideas for weeks.

The chlorine in the pool cleaning supplies is a source well-known
to survivalists and other people.

I agree with DAVEINCAPS and riider both that the danger
from the virus is deadly serious and that the danger from the
reaction to the virus is deadly serious. It could easily be that
a worldwide economic collapse caused not by people getting
sick but by businesses shutting down could result in far more
deaths than the virus would cause. Hundreds of millions as
opposed to millions.

The CDC estimated that 45 million people in the US had the
flu in the 2017-2018 flu season, and somewhere between
34,000 and 50,000 of them died from it.

We aren't anywhere close to that yet with COVID-19.

The six-foot rule is pretty clearly a policy, thought up by
someone who thinks up policies, rather than an efficient
way to prevent virus transmission. It can be effective, but
it is so crude and so fraught with problems it is laughable.

What are the conditions under which the distancing rules
can be relaxed? If they stay in place as long as the rate
of virus spread is as high as it is now, or higher, then they
will probably have to stay in place for another year or two.
The rate in most places is still low and rising. It isn't going
to be lower than it is now for a very long time. Years.
Who thinks we can maintain distancing that long?

I'm a big fan of technology. I'm a big fan of aviation. But
(despite the cruise ship fiasco) it is the cheap availability
of passenger airplane flights that brought the virus out of
wherever it started, to the rest of the world.

Almost every time I look out my window, I see a plane
taking off or coming in for a landing, or flying over.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis


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#11
April 7, 2020 at 23:35:50
(Adding to what's already been said--it took awhile to compose this)

Well I don't really have an alternate plan. I guess I find it much easier to just complain. BUT if I did I think it would start with voluntary actions. If a person wants to wear a mask--fine. If a person wants to exercise social distances--fine. If a person wants to self-isolate--fine. (Heck that's easier now than it's ever been. Restaurants will deliver your meals. With walmart and many grocery stores you can order online then drive to their store and they'll bring it to your car. And of course there's ebay, amazon and a host of others to deliver anything else you need. Laziness suits the isolationist!) If a person wants to quit their job because of the virus--fine. If a business owner wants to shutter their business for awhile (and their employees have other options)--fine. But if the government forces these thing on you--that's not fine.

Life is a risk. For example, no matter how safe we make our cars, airplanes and other forms of transportation we know some people will be killed using them. We accept that. Even with our excellent and constantly improving healthcare system people get sick with various ailments and sometimes die. We accept that. But for reasons I don't understand sickness and deaths from the coronavirus are different. They're not acceptable and we're going to wreck the world economy to justify that difference.

For what it's worth I'm old and disabled and likely fall into the 'underlying health conditions' category that make me more susceptable to the virus. But my healthcare is up to me, my family, my doctors, care givers (if I needed them) and maybe a few friends and neighbors. It's not up to some stranger who I may have business with or innocently pass on the street or in a store. If I feel I'm at risk then I'm the one that needs to take precautions, not strangers. I'm picky about who I trust with my health.

(I really just wanted to pass along my bleach discovery.)

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#12
April 8, 2020 at 01:33:56
I just wanted to pass on my bleach discovery

So it’s your fault for the run on bleach at Walmart... But then likely it’s mine for the run at Costco...


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#13
April 8, 2020 at 02:34:11
Shhh. Don't tell anyone about the pool supply bleach. I may want to get more. When the hoarders are in charge you have to play their game.

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#14
April 8, 2020 at 02:37:22
I won't as long as you keep shush about Costco...

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#15
April 8, 2020 at 08:31:04
If I feel I'm at risk then I'm the one that needs to take precautions,

With Codid-19 how do you even know when you are at risk?

MIKE

http://www.skeptic.com/


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#16
April 8, 2020 at 09:00:13
But my healthcare is up to me, my family, my doctors, care givers (if I needed them) and maybe a few friends and neighbors.

Your healthcare is very much dependent on myriad of others beside those you have mentioned.

Do you take any medication? Who is the person that mixes the chemicals that are in your medicine?
There is a very good chance he is of Chinese origins and lives a half a world away.

Do you have any type of machine that aids you? Who are the workmen who assembled and tested the equipment?
Probably not your neighbor or friend.

John Donne:
"No man is an island entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main."

MIKE

http://www.skeptic.com/


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#17
April 8, 2020 at 10:39:54
That's true but I meant more of a face to face or direct contact as that's the point of all the economy-killing precautions. If you include indirect aspects you could conceivably end up with a six degrees of separation scenario. I guess at some point you have to assume that things that affect you but are beyond your control are done right. You can't live your life if you constantly worry that the car or bus you're in is going to be in an accident or the elevator you're in will fall 20 stories or the food you're eating is contaminated.

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#18
April 8, 2020 at 12:03:07
It's the handling of the pandemic we should should fear, more so than the virus itself. Generally speaking, if you get infected but are in good health, you have better than a 99.9% chance of survival. The reporting is skewed but if you take the time to analyze the numbers, the death rate is WAY under 1%. Using US numbers reported today: 13,000 deaths divided by 330 Million (approx total population) = 0.00394%

For that measly percentage we have shut down the country, devastated the economy, & given up our freedom of movement & freedom to congregate. People are drinking the kool-aid & saying "I'll do anything you ask command as long as I don't get a headache & a cough!"

As Rahm Emanuel once said, “never allow a crisis to go to waste”. The Patriot Act & Protect America Act enacted after 9/11 will pale in comparison to what's coming. And the worst thing is the masses will embrace it. "We need these restrictions to protect ourselves from ourselves!" Eventually people will get fed up with being controlled & that's when all hell will break loose.

From the Rockefeller Report:

"By 2025, people seemed to be growing weary of so much top-down control and letting leaders and authorities make choices for them. Wherever national interests clashed with individual interests, there was conflict. Sporadic pushback became increasingly organized and coordinated, as disaffected youth and people who had seen their status and opportunities slip away — largely in developing countries — incited civil unrest."

Stock up on popcorn (& toilet paper), it's going to be one heck of a show!


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#19
April 8, 2020 at 12:48:01
I too have read a number of Science Fiction stories bout pandemics and the great apocalypse.
Does not mean any of them are any where near reality.

MIKE

http://www.skeptic.com/


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#20
April 8, 2020 at 14:41:03
There was an article (I think I read it on the web, and from a newspaper site) which was discussing rumours emerging from China that the virus was generated in biological warfare lab/site; the CV13 being a modified version of something already around (but by no means as nasty).

Somehow it got out... and the Chinese tried to suppress any references to possible lab source and the true nature of it and its effects.

Interesting that virus affected mainly one area of China, although it did travel in the country to a degree - prior to the Chines lock down. That assorted foreigners left the area and likely took it with them... is I think established...

Conspiracy theory time... suppose you want to test a biological weapon... how do you do it? In a closely controlled society it’s not hard to do. Pick an area, launch or whatever rhe bug and watch what happens. You get real time data... Finding a vaccine is not part of the test initially. You’re more interested in seeing what something like CV13 can do, how it spreads, and how fast. Creating a vaccine comes next obviously once you discover just how effectively nasty the bug is. Using data from this experiment gives you real life information which could be used in the future - to attack other nations (covertly) in many areas. Economic, infrastructure, military.... all become targets. Meanwhile the attacker has the antidote ( a vaccine...) to protect their own resources...

When the victims have been seriously weekened, cannot produce food, or communicate properly, and their military is also seriously depleted... you take over. You have resources the victims don’t. Your economy is sound; your military - land air and sea (and China is fast developing a serious blue water fleet) and air is solid and secure - and you control everything..

Back in the cold war eta the CIA apparently ran a test programme using part of Connecticut as the guinea pig. Imported biological scientists (from the Nazi regime) were encouraged to come up with something. They did... They spread a wee tick around the area, infected with something apparentLy not then in USA. The entire test population came down with a host of illnesses; and at levels totally beyond any norm. Many died. Local medics couldn’t work out what was happening and why, nor how to treat...

The bug involved (brought in from Germany) is now established in N.America and can be fatal Welcome to Lyme disease...

This is all out there on assorted websites, chapter and verse. And there is at least one well assembled book by someone who was (I think) infected, recovered and wanted answers. There were attempts to suppress the information re’ the test programme, but it seems it has been dug out...

Sich a pandemic as now can easily lead to social unrest, even worse a breakdown of the society, law ‘n order... The imposition of increasingly strict controls can lead to a deal of unrest, then hostility towards the government. Especially in society which thrives on being personally independent; and some prepared to use guns to keep that personal independence/freedom... Heaven forbid that there might be value in a degree of nationwide mutual support, universal social care (think an equivalent to the UK NHS) for all. There is a clear divide in some parts of the globe re’ treatment for CV13, if you don’t have money and resources... you likely will die. In the US the lack of a national health care system apparently already favours those have private medical. Those without insurance and there 27million..., are most at risk - regardless of age and ethnicity.

The use of hospital ships in the US is laudable, and fair, right to applaud. But how to find an equivalent way inland to treat “all” affected citizens? The UK has converted the London Excel conference centre into a 2K bed hospital. Using the military it took nine days. There is another opening shortly in Birmingham (in the Midlands), and others elsewhere in the pipeline. And a cruise ship or two are also inline to same end.

So yup... a pandemic, even one like CV13, if not handled wisely, correctly, can lead to all manner unpleasant situations... Especially if there is evidence of deeper causes - as suggested above... Regardless, the effects of this pandemic will be long term... Hopefully it may encourage nations to manufacture goods they need - at home... Grow more food - at home (at home = within the nation state). That will reduce air pollution significantly for a start; and also strengthen home economies, create jobs... And it might finally get those who object to any idea of mutual, state guided, social care system - for all - to concede its value and accept it as part of any well ordered society.


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#21
April 8, 2020 at 14:56:50
re: Well I don't really have an alternate plan. I guess I find it much easier to just complain.

You could have stopped right there. Probably should have.

re: BUT if I did I think it would start with voluntary actions.

So, so, many examples of why that is a bad idea. Let's just look at a couple. Before you shoot these down, extrapolate them across so many other cases where it could apply.

School District A decides to keeps its doors open. All students who voluntarily do not attend will be coded as truant and will be failed. School bus drivers who voluntarily choose not to drive will be fired - not laid off, fired, therefore no unemployment benefits. The same for teachers, aides, maintenance staff, etc.

So workers and students with the virus (asymptomatic of course, because no sick person ever goes to work, right?) expose all those other people who then take it home to their parents and grandparents, some of them who are "old and disabled and likely fall into the 'underlying health conditions' category that make them more susceptible to the virus."

OK, let's try another...

SWMBO works for a company that provides aid to adults with disabilities. The company runs day-habs and residential facilities. Let's say the company "volunteers" to stay in operation. The same "school district" rules apply. Van drivers must transport the clients - which often involves helping them into vans, leaning over them while they are sniffling and coughing. Day-hab workers must report to work, which are often areas where it is impossible to follow any kind of distancing recommendations. I guess all of the underpaid, over-stressed workers could just voluntarily stay home, get fired, etc. Instead, all of those workers are, in essence, forced to go to work, possibly (probably) getting sick and bringing it home to family members who are "old and disabled and likely fall into the 'underlying health conditions' category that make them more susceptible to the virus."

That is why, IMO, "voluntary" measures will not work in this situation.

Here's an option: The government "panics" and orders the school districts to close. The government "panics" and orders the services agency to suspend all non-essential services. They then relieve some of the pain by putting together a program that relaxes unemployment rules, provides extra cash on top of that, provides loans and grants and other incentives to companies large and small. They relax rules related to insurance regulations to make it easier for individuals and companies alike to get through this. Just a thought. If you know of an alternative, I'm all ears - oh wait, you already said you don't have one.

re: Even with our excellent and constantly improving healthcare system people get sick with various ailments and sometimes die. We accept that. But for reasons I don't understand sickness and deaths from the coronavirus are different. They're not acceptable and we're going to wreck the world economy to justify that difference.

I don't know what research you've done, but there is a lot of information that explains the difference. Rate of transmission, death rates, etc. You could start here:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020...

Questions:

When the government enacted laws making it illegal to pass a stop school bus, was that a "panic reaction" because a few kids get killed every now and then? What a damn inconvenience. I should be able to chose whether I stop or not.

When they passed laws about hunting within a specified distance of homes, was that a "panic reaction" because a couple of windows got broken? That deer in the side yard between my house and the neighbor's sure would make some good eating. Bang! "Oh, sorry Bill, I hope your wife is OK."

Point:

Sometimes the government needs to impinge on our "rights" to protect the well-being of other citizens. Leaving it up to the general public (read: "voluntary") rarely works in real life situations where lives are at stake.

Again, offer an alternative. For some reason, not a single health official with any reputable credentials - across the globe - has been able to offer one. Not one of them is calling social distancing a "panic reaction". In fact, they are doing the exact opposite and calling those government officials that have gone the "voluntary" route idiots.


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#22
April 8, 2020 at 18:12:42
re: "Using US numbers reported today: 13,000 deaths divided by 330 Million (approx total population) = 0.00394%

For that measly percentage we have shut down the country, devastated the economy, & given up our freedom of movement & freedom to congregate."

Or, more accurately stated, "Because we've shut down the country, we have kept the percentage to a measly 0.00394%."

Can you imagine what the numbers would be if we were still exercising our "our freedom of movement & freedom to congregate?"

How anyone could possibly miss that connection is beyond me.


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#23
April 8, 2020 at 21:08:26
"I too have read a number of Science Fiction stories bout pandemics and the great apocalypse"

Were they funded & written by the Rockefeller Foundation, Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Global Business Network, or GAVI Vaccine Alliance?

"Conspiracy theory time..."

There are several theories behind the release of the virus:

1. It developed "naturally" & was transferred to humans by bats sold at the Wuhan wet market. The scenario was similar to the banana/bat/pig transfer in the movie "Contagion".
2. It was released accidentally by the Wuhan Institute of Virology; either by an exposed worker or by a worker who sold lab animals to someone at the wet market for extra cash.
3. It was released deliberately by the Chinese government; possibly a live test on its own people to check its effectiveness. It either got out of hand & spread beyond its borders, or the test was a success & the virus was released in several cities soon afterwards, similar to the viral release in the movie "12 Monkeys".
4. It was released by US soldiers while attending the Military World Games in Wuhan in Oct 2019. This is how the Chinese government stated it happened. Coincidentally, Event 201, the pandemic exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health & the Gates Foundation also took place in Oct 2019.
5. It was bio-engineered & released by the NWO to exert control over the global population & global economies; and to bring about one world government, cashless society, & a digital ID "Certification Mark" that will become required to work, travel, buy & sell, etc.
6. It was bio-engineered & released by an alliance of world governments as a cover story to allow for the massive build-up of hospital facilities & additional beds; increase the production of ventilators, masks, gloves & other PPE; & to get troops, national guard, & hospital ships in position for an upcoming catastrophic event - asteroid strike, coronal mass ejection, massive volcanic eruption of the Yellowstone caldera, geomagnetic reversal, or some other form of ELE.

What's your preference?


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#24
April 8, 2020 at 22:26:55
The article you link to is about the comparisons of the flu with the corona virus, not with the host of diseases that still kill but yet we accept--we don't like that it happens but we accept that it does. The flu is just one example of that. The only comparison I made of the corona virus with the flu was in my #5 above and then only to say the survival rate of those infected appeared to be similar.

You've presented a dreary, worst-case scenario. I personally think the system has more give and take than you've allowed. No one would've gotten fired if they felt they couldn't work for virus-related reasons. If they did lawyers would have a field day. And remember, the only people who've lost their jobs because of the virus are the ones working in businesses the GOVERNMENT has shut down. Kids being failed because of the virus or fears of it? Come on, that wouldn't happen either. Personally I think it was a good idea to close the schools. Kids are little disease factories anyway. The last thing we need is them bringing more sickness home to their families.

And when one of your points borders on the classic specious argument 'think how bad it would've been if we'd done nothing' well, let's just say you lose debate points. You don't know how bad it would have been because you have nothing to compare it to. Saying stuff like that is just a psychological ploy to justify an over-the-top reaction.

Obviously all these precautions, necessary or otherwise, have slowed the spread of the virus. But is that really stopping it? It seems to me there are 2 reasons a virus runs its course--victims are isolated and the virus dies with them or enough people acquire immunity either through vaccinations or being cured. 'Flattening the curve' with self isolation or similar measures may mean extending the virus's viability. That is, maybe the area under the curve remains the same so if you flatten the peak on the Y-axis you extend it on the X-axis.

Hey, I'm just speculating but I'll admit it. This is new to all of us.


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#25
April 9, 2020 at 01:14:46
Ya know, this isn't fun anymore. I don't like arguing with people I've known for years (kinda). Besides no one is going to change their mind. I'd prefer to let this thread die a natural, non-virus death. Or we can talk about bleach!

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#26
April 9, 2020 at 05:33:23
I agree with DinC... we need to lighten up here... There are many thoughts and ideas re' how to deal with the current situation. No given solution will be perfect, nor will they all fit every scenario.

To add to the list of possible causes...

Alien infection - sent from "out there Skully...". All part of a plot by the Martians who are getting a little concerned about the impending arrival of our lot on their patch of red soil...

Or is it by another lot who have already infiltrated our blue water world and seen "wot a mess" we're making of it; and decided to wipe us out, or at least reduce our numbers and effect on the planet earth. All in the hopes of recovering it to "wot it woz" way back when... at which time they will take it over...

Or... is it a bunch of benign off world types who (have been keeping a long distance eye on us - possibly one of their projects way back) are seeking to reduce runaway over population, and destruction of this blue water world, and to give us a second chance to get it right...; to live in peace and harmony; mutual benefits to all and so... (The Star Trek scenario - end goal...)

Or have I had too much kooking sherry at this time of day. It is day time where I iz just now; and the sun - yea gods and little fishes - it's shining... And with the lockdown etc it's nice and quiet - reduced traffic, and no over flying jets either...

Retires back to wine cellar to break open anuver barrel...


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#27
April 9, 2020 at 09:37:58
I know you want this to end, but since you responded to my most recent posts, I feel that I have the right to counter your statements for clarification.

re: "No one would've gotten fired if they felt they couldn't work for virus-related reasons."

I'll give you that "fired" may be too strong of a word. Let's replace that with "not eligible for unemployment". That, in fact, is the exact situation that my wife is in. If they call and offer her "hours" and she decides not to go to work, she will not be able to apply for unemployment. That is not a company decision, that is how our state's unemployment system works. She can not say that for "virus-related reasons, I do not want to work" - unless she is actually sick with the virus. The key factor here is that she has been deemed an "essential employee" in an "essential industry" by our state and is therefore is allowed to work. If the company asks her to work, and she is physically able to, she must or she will not get paid.

re: "And when one of your points borders on the classic specious argument 'think how bad it would've been if we'd done nothing' well, let's just say you lose debate points. You don't know how bad it would have been because you have nothing to compare it to. "

Oh, there is so much that I could say about that comment, I'm not even sure where to start. For the sake of relative brevity, I'll just toss this out.

The claim was made that it is ridiculous to shut down the economy when the death toll is so "measly". What was that compared to? That "measly" death toll claim is based on numbers that are current in the middle of the shutdown/social distancing environment. You can't just throw the impact of the shutdown/social distancing environment away and ignore it when looking at the death toll, unless, of course, you believe that it is doing absolutely nothing to stop the spread. (Any of the various cluster maps available should set people straight on that issue.) If I lose points for not having anything to compare it too, so should anyone making the claim that that shutdown is unwarranted based on the "measly" death tolls. They too have nothing to compare it to.

(It's like saying HWY xyz is the safest highway in the US because there hasn't been an accident is 2 years, while ignoring the fact that the road has been shutdown for the entire time. Yes, the number of accidents is accurate, but the most probable reason for that "measly" number has been totally ignored.)

re: "'Flattening the curve' with self isolation or similar measures may mean extending the virus's viability. That is, maybe the area under the curve remains the same so if you flatten the peak on the Y-axis you extend it on the X-axis"

Absolutely true and that's the entire point.

It's a simple matter of math:

- Patients under a tall, narrow curve far exceeds available resources for care.
- The same number of patients under a shorter, wider curve reduces the stress on the medical community.
- Reduced stress on the medical community means that things can run more normally - COVID-19 isn't the only thing that people are getting sick from or need care for.

message edited by DerbyDad03


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#28
April 9, 2020 at 13:54:43
trvlr opined:

> No given solution will be perfect

Of course, but it would be especially nasty if a particular
solution didn't help to stop the spread of the disease very
much but did cause tens of millions or hundreds of millions
of deaths worldwide that could have been avoided.

I don't have suggestions for better solutions. But I can see
that some of the current solutions are just policies, not
solutions. And if I say so, maybe it will prod someone to
come up with better solutions.

I want to repeat what I said above: The CDC estimated that
45 million people in the US had the flu two years ago in the
2017-2018 flu season, and somewhere between 34,000
and 50,000 of them died from it.

I think those figures are quite astonishing.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis


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#29
April 11, 2020 at 13:35:37
Good, safe, non-controversial humor:

https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbefo...


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#30
April 12, 2020 at 09:14:29
In keeping with the humorous trend...

What started as a simple town-based Facebook "joke" promoting social distancing, using words only, turned into lawn signs all over the town. A local sign shop donated the signs, asking any resident that used one to "pay it forward" and donate something to a local charity.

This was started by a town resident and friend of the Town Supervisor. He knew that the Supervisor was 6'-3", so he posted a height related, social distancing joke on Facebook. One of the other residents said "Make a poster" and the sign shop said "I'll make lawn signs."

Let's call the Town Supervisor DAVEINCAPS in honor of he that started this thread.

The lawn sign (those simple "Vote for me" or "I buy houses" type) looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/iN9cooa.jpg

The Supervisor is fully in favor and loves the joke. "Lying down on the job, yep, that's me!"

message edited by DerbyDad03


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#31
April 12, 2020 at 15:01:03
Thanks. I think I'm honored. But it's closer to 6'1", all stretched out.

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#32
April 12, 2020 at 15:34:51
They made us tall in those far off days... I'm a tad over 6'1" and in another 20yrs I get the telegram from my Aunt (if she's still around ) or her heir(s) - they have a big town house at the end of The Mall, with a few toys soldiers outside to amuse the tourists...

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