iPad, books format problem

Apple Ipad 16gb tablet
August 20, 2010 at 07:23:12
Specs: Macintosh
iPad book conundrum Options

Erilar
Jul 26, 7:44 pm

Question for you more knowledgeable people:
Why can I not download neither ANY of the book formats nor even the rtf format from the Baen Free Library site to my iPad? It will only let me read them on line and won't even save them as bookmarks.

On the other hand, I can download assorted book formats to my laptop but neither open them nor get iTunes to import them.

I have a workaround: I have discovered that I can download a zipped rtf file which I can then save as a .pdf, which iTunes WILL import and feed to my iPad. But why do I have to do it this way?

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

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#1
August 20, 2010 at 07:27:22
Steve Hix
Jul 26, 9:30 pm

In article
<1146453385301880013.673678drache-chibardun.netinva...@news.eternal-september.or
g>,

Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
> Question for you more knowledgeable people:
> Why can I not download neither ANY of the book formats nor even the rtf format from the Baen Free Library site to my iPad? It will only let me read them on line and won't even save them as bookmarks.

I re-downloaded all I've collected from Baen over the years in ePub format. (I'd previously had then in mobipocket format on an iPod touch and an earlier PalmOS device.)

Imported them into iTunes, and thence to an iPad at the next sync. Works just fine in iBooks on my iPad, all 175 plus titles.


Paul Murray
Jul 27, 5:00 am
On 2010-07-27, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article
><1146453385301880013.673678drache-chibardun.netinva...@news.eternal-septemb
> er.org>,
> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>> I have a workaround: I have discovered that I can download a zipped rtf file which I can then save as a .pdf, which iTunes WILL import and feed to my iPad.

> Download the EPUB version, and drag it into iTunes. You can then sync it with the iPad or iPhone or iPod Touch just as any other book. Much better than a PDF.

>> But why do I have to do it this way?

> Because Safari on the iDevices can't do downloads yet.

Other options, using Stanza and optionally GoodReader - Hold on the epub link until the menu appears, copy the link address
a) In Stanza, choose Get Books/+/Web Page, give it a name and paste in the link

b1a) In Safari, paste the link address into the address bar and put g in front (so it reads ghttp://...) this will download the file into GoodReader
b1b) Or, in GoodReader choose Web downloads, Enter URL and paste the link
b2) In GoodReader, choose Manage Files, select the file, choose Open In... Stanza

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#2
August 20, 2010 at 07:32:53
Erilar
Jul 27, 8:57 am

That would explain part of it, all right.

> Other options, using Stanza and optionally GoodReader
> - Hold on the epub link until the menu appears, copy the link address

They're not among my apps, at least not so far.
BUT
The situation gets more confusing. I tried downloading a couple books in epub--- thanks for the suggestion, folks--and it worked with one and not with another, so now I have one book from that site among my books, complete with cover, and some in the .pdf section.

At least I can now read them normally. Earlier I had tried to download one directly to the iPad, began reading it, and discovered I was reading it on line and lost it completely when I paused, so I had to retrieve it, flip through to my place, and finish it at one sitting.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


Todd Allcock
Jul 27, 11:32 am
"Michelle Steiner" <miche...@michelle.org> wrote in message

news:michelle-8AE188.17273726072010@news.eternal-september.org...

Just curious, do have any reason to believe it ever will? It seems more like a conscious design decision than an unimplemented feature.

Safari downloads would require something crazy like a user-accessible file system to save them to, unless they kludge some kind of "save to which app?" selection menu for registered file types.

This is one of those times where making something "simple" doesn't necessarily make it "easy."

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#3
August 20, 2010 at 07:36:01
Todd Allcock
Jul 27, 1:39 pm
"Michelle Steiner" <miche...@michelle.org> wrote in message

news:michelle-899F4A.09090727072010@news.eternal-september.org...

Since my wife's iPhone 2G isn't compatible with iOS4, I haven't played with
it yet. Will email attachments save to any compatible program, or only
iWork?


AES
Jul 27, 6:05 pm
> > Because Safari on the iDevices can't do downloads yet.

My wife says she recently downloaded Skype software to her iTouch by going to the Skype website using Safari and doing a download (and in fact she's since been making Skype calls from her iTouch using a Bluetooth headset).

Are there different kinds of downloads under discussion here?


breadwiths...@fractious.net
Jul 27, 6:39 pm

AES <sieg...@stanford.edu> writes:
> > > Because Safari on the iDevices can't do downloads yet.
> My wife says she recently downloaded Skype software to her iTouch by going to the Skype website using Safari and doing a download (and in fact she's since been making Skype calls from her iTouch using a Bluetooth headset).

Downloading apps like that it's possible to put a link on a regular web page which gets redirected to the App store (or, on a desktop machine, to iTunes). That's probably what she did.

> Are there different kinds of downloads under discussion here?

Apps are different from docs.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

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#4
August 20, 2010 at 07:41:34
Todd Allcock
Jul 27, 7:07 pm
"Michelle Steiner" <miche...@michelle.org> wrote in message

news:michelle-5E1418.11262227072010@news.eternal-september.org...

> In article <KRE3o.49439$cO.36...@newsfe09.iad>,
> "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

>> Since my wife's iPhone 2G isn't compatible with iOS4, I haven't played with it yet. Will email attachments save to any compatible program, or only iWork?

> As I understand it, only with those applications that have registered their file types.

> I just emailed myself a PDF, and have the option to open it in iBook, Stanza, or FTP On The Go.

Does the file then get saved in those apps for use later, or does it
disappear when you delete the email? If you can save it, that would seem to be a good way to move an ebook to iBook- just email it to yourself.


Jochem Huhmann
Jul 27, 7:23 pm
"Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> writes:
>> I just emailed myself a PDF, and have the option to open it in iBook, Stanza, or FTP On The Go.

> Does the file then get saved in those apps for use later, or does it disappear when you delete the email? If you can save it, that would seem to be a good way to move an ebook to iBook- just email it to yourself.


The receiving app gets a copy and saves it to it's own space. I think this should also work with Dropbox now (or if not very soon).

Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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#5
August 20, 2010 at 07:45:16
AES
Jul 27, 7:33 pm
In article <yobvd80y2g6....@panix2.panix.com>,
BreadWithS...@fractious.net wrote:
> > > > Because Safari on the iDevices can't do downloads yet.

> > My wife says she recently downloaded Skype software to her iTouch by going to the Skype website using Safari and doing a download (and in fact she's since been making Skype calls from her iTouch using a Bluetooth headset).

> Downloading apps like that it's possible to put a link on a regular web page which gets redirected to the App store (or, on a desktop machine, to iTunes). That's probably what she did.

So, Safari on these iDevices __can__ perfectly well do downloads -- or
at least, can initiate a process under which something is downloaded to
an iDevice -- but only those 'somethings' that Apple specifically chooses to allow?


breadwiths...@fractious.net
Jul 27, 11:53 pm

AES <sieg...@stanford.edu> writes:
> BreadWithS...@fractious.net wrote:
> > Downloading apps like that it's possible to put a link on a regular web page which gets redirected to the App store (or, on a desktop machine, to iTunes). That's probably what she did.

So, Safari on these iDevices __can__ perfectly well do downloads -- or at least, can initiate a process under which something is downloaded to an iDevice -- but only those 'somethings' that Apple specifically chooses to allow?

Nope. The link takes you to the AppStore app. The AppStore app
downloads apps - and not just from visiting a link - you have to go
through the whole "buy" process.

Anyone can write an app which can download things -- to itself.

The AppStore app is the only app which can download apps and *install*
them.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

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#6
August 20, 2010 at 07:49:30
Erilar
Jul 28, 12:13 pm

I've received .pdf files attached to mail that I can open on the iPad.
It would be nice to be able to download things like that directly to the
iPad via Safari as well.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist


breadwiths...@fractious.net
View profile
More options Jul 28, 2:00 pm
Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> writes:
> Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:

[attribution possibly mangled. apologies]

> >> Safari downloads would require something crazy like a user-accessible file system to save them to, unless they kludge some kind of "save to which app?" selection menu for registered file types.

That's *precisely* what we have now since iOS4 (and the iOS for the iPad). Actually, we've had some subset of that for a while - IIRC, apps were able to save specific media files to specific places (ie. "save picture to Photos). But now, any app which registers that it knows how to handle certain file formats may be the recipient when any other app sends those files over.

> > Probably, but don't they do that now for some file types that are attachments to email?

Any attachment with a file type for which an app has registered that it knows how to handle that file.

For example, I just saved a PDF file from DropBox over to Goodreader.

> I've received .pdf files attached to mail that I can open on the iPad. It would be nice to be able to download things like that directly to the iPad via Safari as well.

Not sure about the current version on the iPad, but on iOS4 on my iPhone, if I Safari over to a PDF and view the PDF inside safari (a less than optimal place to view it, and no way to keep it there), at the top of the screen are two buttons:
[Open in...] and [Open in iBooks]

If i click on [Open in...] it presents a list of my apps which are
registered as capable of receiving PDFs: iBooks, Stanza and
Goodreader.

So, yes, you can in fact download PDFs via Safari and send them over to local apps for reading, keeping around, etc.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

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#7
August 20, 2010 at 07:55:08
AES
Jul 28, 3:52 pm
In article <yobmxtbbi66....@panix3.panix.com>,

BreadWithS...@fractious.net wrote:
> That's *precisely* what we have now since iOS4 (and the iOS for the iPad). Actually, we've had some subset of that for a while - IIRC, apps were able to save specific media files to specific places (ie. "save picture to Photos). But now, any app which registers that it knows how to handle certain file formats may be the recipient when any other app sends those files over.

Questions (for info):
Can an app #1 that sends a file over to app #2 then call it back again?

Even after app #2 has modified it?


breadwiths...@fractious.net
Jul 28, 4:07 pm
AES <sieg...@stanford.edu> writes:
> BreadWithS...@fractious.net wrote:

> > (ie. "save picture to Photos). But now, any app which registers that it knows how to handle certain file formats may be the recipient when any other app sends those files over.

> Questions (for info):

> Can an app #1 that sends a file over to app #2 then call it back again?

No. No app can "call it back again" regarding anything. Once
app #1 sends a file over to app #2, app #1 may or may not have kept a copy (safari, for example won't), but app #2 now has its very own file. It's possible that App #2 knows how to send the file back, but it's not that App#1 can ask for it. And each app has its own copy of a given file. No files (except certain specific media files - photos, for example) are *shared* between apps. Copies are *sent*.

> Even after app #2 has modified it?

App#2 owns its own copy of the file. App#2 may modify it, bake a cake with it do whatever it is that App#2 does with it. If App#2 knows how to, it may even send the file to some other app. If App#1 has registered as knowing how to deal with that particular kind of file, App#1 may well be a recipient for it, then. And if App#1 had kept a copy of the file when it sent a copy to App#2, when App#2 sends the file to app#1, well, app#1 may now have two separate and different copies of that file. That's up to App#1 and however App#1 organizes, tags, titles, whatever the files.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

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#8
August 20, 2010 at 07:59:10
Jochem Huhmann
Jul 28, 4:59 pm
BreadWithS...@fractious.net writes:
> App#2 owns its own copy of the file. App#2 may modify it, bake a cake with it do whatever it is that App#2 does with it. If App#2 knows how to, it may even send the file to some other app. If App#1 has registered as knowing how to deal with that particular kind of file, App#1 may well be a recipient for it, then. And if App#1 had kept a copy of the file when it sent a copy to App#2, when App#2 sends the file to app#1, well, app#1 may now have two separate and different copies of that file. That's up to App#1 and however App#1 organizes, tags, titles, whatever the files.

Apple seems to be totally paranoid about any sharing of data between iOS apps. Giving out a copy instead of working on the very same file stored somewhere is just one part of that paranoia. If you're used to Computer As They Were Before this is probably driving you up the walls, but if you're rather naive about all that it probably seems to be just natural. If you copy a page of paper and then toss a cup of coffee over the copy you'll probably not expect to have your original wrecked
also...

Anyway, I'm not really happy about what Apple delivers here. There just needs to be some central document storage which all apps can access and which you can also get to by mounting the thing via USB on any computer to add or copy things. Then they need some API for apps to open, save and manage documents, including renaming and duplicating.

The amount of workarounds for the lack of this is already much worse than everything that could come out of having such a central storage. You constantly need to deal with iTunes on a host computer, or with one or more of several third-party cloud services. Document handling on the iPad is in a way user unfriendly that it looks outright un-Apple.

Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Larry
Jul 28, 11:45 pm
BreadWithS...@fractious.net wrote in
news:yobaapbbca1.fsf@panix3.panix.com:

DOS 3.3 is more complex than IOS.....geez.
--

iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

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#9
August 20, 2010 at 08:03:33
Todd Allcock
Jul 29, 4:22 pm

"Jochem Huhmann" <j...@gmx.net> wrote in message

news:m2y6cviapd.fsf@revier.com...

As I've long complained about iOS, there is nothing wrong with trying a "new way" to do things, if you actually have a "new way." The lack of a user-accessible file system, in favor of an app-centric system has some real problems with moving data on and off the iDevices. The changes made in iOS 3.2 (iPad) and iOS4 really seem to be a slow move towards establishing a more computer-like file-centric (or, if you prefer, "object-centric") experience, but so far still kludged-up to prevent any "I told you sos" from the tech world. Again, I'm not advocating for a computer or Windows Mobile-like complete unfettered access to the entire OS or its file system- just a shared data/documents folder all third party apps could share and access, so any, say, .pdf doc was viewable in any .pdf-compatible app, without remembering if it's in Dropbox, Goodreader, iBooks, or whatever, or
having to "send" a copy to each app.

I don't see in what way this file handling concept is supposed to be superior to simply creating a single shared document folder, accessible by all apps, syncable via iTunes, similar to the way the Camera Roll folder is set up? This nonsense of "sending" file copies to other apps sounds really awkward, and, yes, decidedly un-Apple.

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#10
August 20, 2010 at 08:08:11
Eric Lindsay
View profile
More options Jul 29, 5:00 pm
Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
> Question for you more knowledgeable people:
> Why can I not download neither ANY of the book formats nor even the rtf format from the Baen Free Library site to my iPad? It will only let me read them on line and won't even save them as bookmarks.

Safari is not registered as an ebook reader.

> On the other hand, I can download assorted book formats to my laptop but neither open them nor get iTunes to import them.

Proper workflow for Baen ebooks in ePub format from computer is open the download page online in Safari. Click the illustration to enlarge the cover, and right click to get a context menu. Copy the image in for later pasting. Now download the ePub. Click the downloaded ePub, and Get Information. Paste the cover into the icon at the top of the Information box. This gives your book a nice icon in Finder.

Drag your new ePub into iTunes. Find it in the Book section. Open Information, and check the metadata looks sane (especially sort order for authors). If there is no cover art, go to the Cover section of Information and Paste your cover into it (it should still be in your paste buffer).

Return to Finder and drag your ePub from downloads to wherever you like having a spare copy of your ebooks. Using Spaces tends to make this process quicker.

Repeat the process with the next ebook. I have over 200 ePub in my iPad for reading with iBook. Main problem so far is poor metadata, and poor data handling by iTunes. For doing your own ebook conversions look at Calibre, and use EPubCheck for validation. Also for editing, Sigil. These free programs all have significant flaws, and do not guarantee valid ebooks (however book readers will mostly cope).

> I have a workaround: I have discovered that I can download a zipped rtf file which I can then save as a .pdf, which iTunes WILL import and feed to my iPad. But why do I have to do it this way?

--
via iPad

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#11
August 20, 2010 at 08:14:12
breadwiths...@fractious.net

Jul 29, 5:35 pm
"Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> writes:
> "Jochem Huhmann" <j...@gmx.net> wrote in message
> > BreadWithS...@fractious.net writes:

> >> App#2 owns its own copy of the file. App#2 may modify it, bake a cake with it do whatever it is that App#2 does with it. If App#2 knows how to, it may even send the file to some other app. If App#1 has Apple seems to be totally paranoid about any sharing of data between iOS apps. Giving out a copy instead of working on the very same file stored somewhere is just one part of that paranoia. If you're used to

I'm not sure "paranoia" is the right word. It just seems to be a consequence of the notion that apps all live within secure universes of their own. The "send" thing is, to me, a muddling attempt at overcoming that without compromising the "apps own their own data" model. One of the benefits of that model is that no data on the device is ever left orphaned. That, at least, is a very good thing.

> > Document handling on the iPad is in a way user unfriendly that it looks outright un-Apple.

I don't know what "un-Apple" means, but I can certainly agree that it's awkward to say the least - for the subset of folks using the devices for whom it's an issue. For me, it's annoying. For a lot of folks out there, they don't even realize there is an issue.

> I don't see in what way this file handling concept is supposed to be superior to simply creating a single shared document folder, accessible by all apps, syncable via iTunes, similar to the way the Camera Roll folder is set up? This nonsense of "sending" file copies to other apps sounds really awkward, and, yes, decidedly un-Apple.

That sounds good to me. And it would also work well into a context of allowing multiple users on the device, too - each user has his or her own documents folder, and perhaps one "shared" folder for all users on the device so that you don't need multiple copies of massive files like videos. This latter may well run into some DRM issues in that DRM protected media files may not be playable by every user, just as that's the situation on existing desktop machines running iTunes. But it certainly shouldn't be a problem for
folks who have non-DRM media.

As it is, if a single user has a document which he or she wants to use with multiple apps, he's got to keep multiple copies of that document around (or keep sending it back and forth and deleting old copies as he goes). And if multiple users want to use that same document in multiple places, you'd up the messiness by a whole new dimension. Yech.

I know, it's not a multi-user device. I can see that for the iPhone, but for the iPad, it's a real shortcoming in my opinion. There's no need for us to have more than one of them in the house, though we have more than one person who'd use it. And there's no notion of a "guest" account - one which doesn't allow one to leave data around - so if anyone wants to borrow it to do a little web surfing, their history, cookies, etc,. all get mixed up with mine. Goofy.

But it's what we have for the moment. I'm not about to give up my desktop machines any time soon. Meanwhile, the iOS is improving a lot with each iteration. It'll take a while and a lot of iterations to get something like this just right. And it's getting better. It's just not there yet and, as far as I can tell, sucks a lot less than the alternatives (WebOS, Android, or putting a desktop OS into one of these devices).

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

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#12
August 20, 2010 at 08:17:48
George Kerby
Jul 29, 7:44 pm

On 7/29/10 5:15 PM, in article
jollyroger-CE95BD.17154629072...@news.individual.net, "Jolly Roger"

<jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <Xns9DC3F1AB2F515noonehome...@74.209.131.13>,
> Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:

>> DOS 3.3 is more complex than IOS.....geez.

> DOS is more complex than a full-blown, modern, mobile Unix operating system with the best UI and integration in the world?

> No. You're just extremely f---ing stupid.

Lar is not properly medicating himself and these are the results. The gals at the Waffle House will get him back to County Hospital.


Jolly Roger
Jul 29, 7:56 pm
In article <C8777C86.3A0B2%ghost_top...@hotmail.com>,
George Kerby <ghost_top...@hotmail.com> wrote:

He did unintentionally make a good point though: DOS is certainly more complex in terms of being able to actually get anything DONE.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR


Larry
Jul 30, 2:53 am

Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote in news:jollyroger-
CE95BD.17154629072...@news.individual.net:

> No. You're just extremely f---ing stupid.

I'm not the one with the single tasking sellphone....YOU ARE!

--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

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