Windows 98 Installation issues

April 13, 2009 at 16:18:40
Specs: Windows 98
I recently upgraded my Hardware [Motherboard (Socket 775), Processor (intel Q9550), RAM (1GB DDR2 667), Video Card (NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+), and Power supply (650W)] - Now, Issue 1)BIOS recognizes my DVD Drive, but DOS boot disk doesn't. - Issue 2) I got my OEM copy of WIN98 to the HD, and it seems to install ok still, but it hangs when it is Installing the PnP Hardware. What's going on? Do I have some bad Hardware?

See More: Windows 98 Installation issues

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#1
April 13, 2009 at 17:14:09
Try lowering your RAM amount to 512MB or less.

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#2
April 13, 2009 at 18:16:25
"1)BIOS recognizes my DVD Drive, but DOS boot disk doesn't. "

Assuming the DVD drive is IDE and not SATA...
The Dos boot disk must have Autoxec.bat, Config.sys, and lines in each that load mscdex and a cd drive driver, and mscdex and the cd drive driver must be on the floppy.
A Win 98 or 98SE Startup Disk floppy already has all of those.

Booting from the full version Win 98 or 98SE CD loads the same things as the Startup Disk does as a virtual floppy.

"....it hangs when it is Installing the PnP Hardware. "

Try unplugging everything, including card in slots, that's not necessary to run Setup - usually Setup will then complete successfully, and you can plug in the devices and install the drivers for them one by one later.

Windows 98 or 98SE was never meant to handle more than 512mb of ram. If you install more than that you have to tweak some settings in Windows, but of course you have to be able to get Windows loaded succssfully first.
If you have two or more ram modules, try running Setup with 512mb or less installed.

Win 98 and 98SE run very well with 128mb of ram, and you will not notice any difference with more than 256mb.
.......

Fdisk in Win 98, 98SE cannot recognize a hard drive larger than ~64 gig without an update, if it hasn't been installed. What Fdisk will see in those cases is e.g. ~80 - 64 = ~16 gb, or ~120 - 64 = ~56 gb, or ~160 - (2 x 64) = ~32gb.

Get the update you install on a working Windows 98 or 98SE installation here:
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...
If you use a Startup disk to Fdisk the hard drive, you must copy the updated Fdisk from Windows to the floppy. If you boot/install Windows from the Win 98/98SE CD, you cannot Fdisk/Format a hard drive larger than 64 gig - use the Startup disk with the updated Fdisk instead.

The update is supposed to be installed on a working Win 98 or 98SE computer. If you don't have that, you can get the updated Fdisk.exe on the web. In it's Properties it's size is 64,460 bytes, and it's original date is 5/18/00 (depending on where you get it from the date may be something else - the right one is 64,460 bytes).



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#3
April 13, 2009 at 22:16:59
Plus you'll need 98 drivers for all the hardware, some of which may not exist.

Read this if your 98 is first edition:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=...

The file name is 312108USA8.EXE. You should be able to google it to find a download since microsoft has dropped support for 9X.

Here's some RAM configuration tips for >512 meg:

http://members.driverguide.com/driv...

(Note that configuring the ram is part art, part science so opinions vary but the above will get the job done.)

If it is a sata cdrom GCDROM.SYS should detect it. Just replace the oakcdrom.sys file with it and edit config.sys on the bootdisk. You should be able to google a download for it. I think your 98 OEM CD is bootable so you may not need the bootdisk but it wouldn't hurt to make one in case you have problems later on.

If you really want to run 98, instead of spending the next couple of months trying to set up that motherboard, you should get an old P-II or P-III.


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#4
April 14, 2009 at 16:16:54
Thanks for the ideas everyone, here's my responses to input so far:

1) "Assuming the DVD drive is IDE and not SATA..." - Check!

2) "cd drive driver, and mscdex and the cd drive driver must be on the floppy." - Check!
Using BTCCDROM.SYS, ATAPICD.SYS, and another forget which. Don't have oakcdrom.sys anymore. None of them found the DVD Drive. Even though, pre-upgrade, they found the SAME drive before....

3) No Win98 boot disk to work from, mine was corrupted since I last checked it. and none of the CD's are bootable (tried that)

4) No internet, and no floppy drives on computers with internet. Do have USB drive that I managed to make into a bootable Floppy drive and put my Win 98 OEM files onto the HD from by making a Virtual Floppy drive, formatting it and using that and a USB Boot utility to make it bootable.

5) "Try unplugging everything, including card in slots" - Check!
Only thing attached is HD, Video card, and DVD Drive - No other slots, everything else I need is practically onboard. (hmm, could disable onboard in BIOS...)

6) "Windows 98 or 98SE was never meant to handle more than 512mb of ram" - hmm, last build had 1GB and it worked fine, but can try that. I have only 1 of 4 1GB sticks in currently. would have to go buy a 512 MB. Unless you guys know of a utility that can override that....

7) "Win 98, 98SE cannot recognize a hard drive larger than ~64 gig " - Check!
Current HD is aprox 58 GB (thought it was a 40, but Scandisk says bigger... )

8) "Here's some RAM configuration tips for >512 meg:" - Got it, will have to check it out later

9) "If you really want to run 98" - I don't, I have to have a windows environment to run install for Win XP Upgrade I have, so I just need it to work for 1 minute to click a setup file which is in the DVD drive.... Then I can install everything else. like the other 3GB of RAM.

10) "I think your 98 OEM CD is bootable " - OEM is not on CD, it is the contents of "\OPTIONS\CABS" folder from original HD burned to CD. Worked every time before...


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#5
April 14, 2009 at 19:09:33
Most of the time you can install the OS from an upgrade cd. You just need a cd of an older OS (98, ME, maybe 95) for verification you qualify for the update. The installation process should tell you at some point to insert the previous OS cd. Maybe your Options\cabs files on cd will work for that.

There are two cd drivers I know of that should see a standard atapi DVD. They are VIDE-CDD.SYS and SSCDROM.SYS. You should be able to google a download.


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#6
April 15, 2009 at 07:45:45
The Win 98SE Startup Disk floppy works with my IDE DVD combo burner drive fine, on a system with an Asus A7V600 mboard. It loads several CD drive drivers - I assume it's oakcdrom.sys it works with - that has worked with every other IDE CD or DVD drive I've tried it with by itself.

Take a look at the support info for your mboard model on the manufacturer's web site. Some more recent mboards cannot be used with operating systems ME and previous and if so that's usually obviously stated.


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#7
April 16, 2009 at 16:49:44
I tried to post this yesterday, but apparently it didn't post properly....so now I'm going to have to do it mostly from memory as I don't have my paperwork with me today...

I disabled all onboard everything that I could that wouldn't disable the whole system, and managed to make it further with WIN 98 install

Once I got past the PnP issue, I got a message saying there was a problem with my "Standard Dual PCI IDE Controller" where some children were using 32 bit and others were using compatability mode. It fixed it by changing everything to compatability mode, then rebooted

Once it rebooted I finally was in the windows environment. I checked System Properties and found no less than 12 error messages ranging from Motherboard Resource Conflicts to PCI USB controllers and PCI Master Bus (i think) and all 3 Standard Dual PCI IDE Controllers had a Primary and secondary child with an error each.

I decided WIN XP might be able to detect better, so started installing. Step 1 it copied the files to the directory it wanted, then rebooted. Once it started, it gave a PCI.SYS protection fault blue screen of death.

I have a feeling this is all related. It seems the PCI IDE controller affects everything having trouble. What is it? Hardware? Software? can it be fixed? Replaced? is it a Hardware upgrade? Software Fix? Can everything above be explained by this?


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#8
April 16, 2009 at 19:12:28
You'd need to install the motherboard chipset drivers for 98 to get that set up properly. Assuming it's Intel it's going to be here somewhere:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/def...

You'd go to 'chipsets' then 'desktop chipsets' and locate which you have. You may need to google your motherboard model number to find your chipset. Then if there's one for 98, download and install it.

I still think you should try the install using your upgrade disk and see if it accepts your jury-rigged 98 disk as validation. If not, spend a couple dollars for a real 98 cd. Edit Here's some additional info on that:

http://www.duxcw.com/faq/win/xp/cle...


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#9
April 17, 2009 at 14:08:01
You may not be able to install Win ME or previous on your mboard if this applies:

"Take a look at the support info for your mboard model on the manufacturer's web site. Some more recent mboards cannot be used with operating systems ME and previous and if so that's usually obviously stated. "

but you should have no problems installing XP from the CD. As far as I know there is no such thing yet as a mboard that can only be used with Vista.

"I disabled all onboard everything that I could that wouldn't disable the whole system...."

If you disabled anything in the bios Setup, that isn't what I asked you to do. I said.....
"Try unplugging everything, including card in slots, that's not necessary to run Setup ..."

Go into the bios Setup and load bios defaults.
Then try installing XP from the CD.

"Step 1 it copied the files to the directory it wanted, then rebooted. Once it started, it gave a PCI.SYS protection fault blue screen of death."

You should get NO ERRORS reading files from the Windows CD, and Setup should complete successfully.

If you DO get errors
1. Setup is very sensitive to errors reading files from the CD.
Try
- cleaning the CD
- using a laser lens cleaning CD in the drive
- if the CD is a burned copy it may not work properly or read properly unless the cd is a CD-R disk unless the disk was made in the drive it is being read in

2. Setup is very sensitive to even tiny ampunts of errors reading the ram, even ones that may not cause noticable problems otherwise.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

Test the ram to make sure you are getting no errors.

If you do a ram test, do that AFTER having tried cleaning the contacts and making sure the ram is seated properly - otherwise any errors found may be FALSE.
If the ram is incompatible with the chipset, it will likely FAIL a ram test - that is NOT a true indication of the ram being faulty - there is probably nothing wrong with it, and it will pass the test if installed in a mboard it is compatible with.
If a ram test DOES find errors, if you have more than one module installed, try the test with one module at a time - sometimes they won't work properly when more than one is installed, but it will pass when by itself.

If you want to try a memory diagnostic utility that takes a lot less time to run a full pass than memtest86 does, this one is pretty good - Microsoft's
Windows Memory Diagnostic:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag...
It can be toggled (press T) to do a standard or a more comprehensive set of tests - use the default 6 test one first - if it passes one pass of that, use the latter one. A few of the tests in the latter set are intentionally slower.
If you don't have a floppy drive, see the Quick Start Information at that Microsoft link for how to make a bootable CD of the Windows Memory Diagnostic (you need Windiag.iso - you don't necessarily need to use the program they mention to add it to the CD).
.......

After you have gotten through Setup successfully....

When Setup is finished, there are usually entries in Device Manager with Unknown or yellow ? beside them for some things XP does not have the drivers built in for. When you look in System Information, those same things may be listed as problem devices.
You need to load thedrivers for those devices.


Whenever you load Windows from a regular Windows CD (or DVD) from scratch, after Setup is finished you must load the drivers for the mboard, particularly the main chipset drivers, in order for Windows to have the proper drivers for and information about your mboard hardware, including it's AGP or PCI-E, ACPI, USB 2.0 if it has it, and hard drive controller support. If you have a generic system and have the CD that came with the mboard, all the necessary drivers are on it. If you load drivers from the web, brand name system builders and mboard makers often DO NOT have the main chipset drivers listed in the downloads for your model - in that case you must go to the maker of the main chipset's web site, get the drivers, and load them.



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