Power Surge on Hub Port: A USB Device has exc

June 30, 2009 at 17:21:23
Specs: N/A, N/A
I was recently given an old PC and checked to see if it had any faults. I then found out that as soon I plugged a USB flash or a usb external Hdd to it would cause a problem. XP pro came up with this message
"Power Surge on Hub Port: A USB Device has exceeded the power limits of its hub port."

It has 2 usb ports at the front and 4 at the back.
I tried all, but noticed when I plugged usb storage devices in the back, the pc would re-boot itself ,so the ports on the back were in worse condition than the ones on the front.
Also the mouse would freeze when I plugged storage devices in the front. However usb mice and keyboards work OK in all the USB ports.

Would this be a hardware issue ? not software related ?
Also I noticed the pc has a program installed in it called "S3 USB enable" ,could that be the problem that is causing this ?

My mouse pointer works again when there are no other usb devices pluggeg in and I unplug/plug the
mouse cable again.
How do I get the USB ports to function with USB drives ?


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#1
July 1, 2009 at 05:03:05
Does the computer boot up and run fine other than the USB issue?

Look at the link below for possible help. I don't use S3 at all. S1 and minimal settings works for desktops.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/841858


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#2
July 1, 2009 at 08:20:07
" "S3 USB enable" "

That has nothing to do with your problem.
....

Telling us this is an old PC doesn't help much.
What's old to you you may not be so old to us.
What model is it?

An Aspire model can be a laptop or a desktop computer.
It sounds like this is a desktop computer.

""Power Surge on Hub Port: A USB Device has exceeded the power limits of its hub port.""

That message is probably generated by the mboard's bios, not the operating sytstem.

If this is a desktop computer, all ports directly connected to the mboard (e.g. the ones on the back of the computer in the I/O area where most of the ports are) can supply the max. 500ma the USB specs specify (if the computer's power supply is working properly).
So can USB ports in a USB controller card in a slot.
However,
- an external drive requires the max 500ma while starting up. A 3.5" external hard drive should work fine if it is connected BY ITSELF to a USB port directly connected to the mboard, and if the external power adapter is connected to the external drive's case. A 2.5" external hard drive MAY NOT work properly connected BY ITSELF to one USB port directly connected to the mboard - you MAY need to connect it to TWO USB ports on the computer, by means of two cables from the external case, or a USB Y cable, or you plug an external power adapter into it's external case if it has a jack for that.
- the headers for USB on the mboard can also handle 500ma per port, but wiring from a mboard header to the front ports in the case may be inadequate - it may not be able to supply greater current, and/or some devices may not work properly in the front case ports.
- devices may not work properly connected to a multiple port hub that connects to only one USB port directly connected to the mboard, even when the hub is "powered" .
- some desktop mboards have USB headers with 5 connections for one USB port, or if there are two USB port connections per header one or both USB ports may have 5 connections.
The 5th connection can be for two different things - a second ground, or overcurrent. If the 5th connection on a case port or for a port in a wiring adapter in a slot space is not for the same thing, you get a message like you're getting, but it's FALSE.
If you disconnect the 5th connection, you will NOT get the message. (In many cases you can do that without having to cut a wire)
A brand name system would have originally had the USB wiring from the header(s) to the case wired up correctly, but someone may have changed that since, and/or may have installed the mboard in a different case.

A USB flash drive does not require much current. It should work fine in a port directly connected to the mboard, but it MAY NOT work fine connected to a port on the case, or a port in a USB hub.

If some USB devices work fine, such as mice and keyboards, others do not, when connected to a port directly connected to the mboard, then you probably have an IRQ sharing problem you need to fix.

If NO USB device works fine when connected to a port directly connected to the mboard, then either your power supply is failing and can't provide enough 5v (in that case your floppy drive if you have one and optical drive(s) can't work properly either),
OR your USB controller(s) are damaged.

If your onboard USB controller(s) is(are) damaged, you could try disabling the onboard USB controller(s) and installing a inexpensive PCI USB 2.0 controller card in a slot and connecting the USB devices to that.
....

Further info - USB devices may not work correctly depending on which port you plug into, check your power supply, you may havean IRQ sharing problem you need to fix and if so you need to re-load the USB stack, etc.:

See response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...
........

The following does no affect whether USB devices work while booting or whether you get a message from the mboard's bios - that's in the bios's code - but it does affect how USB devices behave after you come out of a Hibernate or Standby mode, and how USB devices and USB 2.0 controllers are detected in the operating system.

Whenever you load Windows from a regular Windows CD (or DVD) from scratch, after Setup is finished you must load the drivers for the mboard, particularly the main chipset drivers, in order for Windows to have the proper drivers for and information about your mboard hardware, including it's AGP or PCI-E, ACPI, USB 2.0 if it has it, and hard drive controller support. If you have a generic system and have the CD that came with the mboard, all the necessary drivers are on it. If you load drivers from the web, brand name system builders and mboard makers often DO NOT have the main chipset drivers listed in the downloads for your model - in that case you must go to the maker of the main chipset's web site, get the drivers, and load them.


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#3
July 1, 2009 at 18:19:43
Thank you for your reply.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head when you said
--------------------------------
If some USB devices work fine, such as mice and keyboards, others do not, when connected to a port directly connected to the mboard, then you probably have an IRQ sharing problem you need to fix.
If your onboard USB controller(s) is(are) damaged, you could try disabling the onboard USB controller(s) and installing a inexpensive PCI USB 2.0 controller card in a slot and connecting the USB devices to that.
-------------------------------------
Just 1 more questions, is it possible the USB controller could be damaged just enough to let input devices function ,but not
for storage devices(external hdd , usb flash)
I will do an irq check to see if anything is Conflicting.
Also I will be purchasing a PCI USB 2.0 controller card.
Also I see when looking inside that the USB controller is incorporated within the motherboard.

Is it possible I could cut all connections to the existing usb connectors , and then once I get the PCI USB 2.0 controller card ,to attach usb wires from the PCI USB 2.0 controller card
to the existing usb connectors on the pc chassis ?


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#4
July 2, 2009 at 20:07:39
After constant re-seating of the internal usb pins and graphics card and shaking the pc, I now managed to get all 4 usb sockets at the back , working and reading my usb storage devices. Would be nice if
I could get the ones at the front also working.
When I look inside I see that all the usb sockets at the back are connected to 2 cables and form one end that goes into the motherboard to a set of pins called usb1 and also see that there are 2 usb cables to form one at the end that goes into another set of pins into the motherboard called usb 2.
so does that mean I do not need a usb exapnsion card now ?
I could just swap the cables over , the back with the front, if that works, I would be happy with just those 2 usb sockets.
What do you think ?


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#5
July 3, 2009 at 10:59:56
What model Aspire is this?
The model is usually stated on a label on the outside of the case on brand name systems.

Whether your graphics card is properly seated or not has nothing to do with USB problems.

The old saying goes..."You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".
I think I have already supplied enough info for you to be able to figure out what your problem is, but if you need more explanation....

If you think you may have inadequate wiring to a port, or an IRQ sharing problem, see the details about that in this:
See response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

If the wiring to a USB port is inadequate, assuming no connection is loose or connected to improper pins, switching which port connects to which USB header will not change anything - the same port still won't work properly with some devices.

"....is it possible the USB controller could be damaged just enough to let input devices function ,but not
for storage devices(external hdd , usb flash)"

That's extrememly unlikely. I've never seen or heard of such a situation myself or in any posts I've answered - either the USB controllers work or they don't, and it's quite rare for mboard USB controllers to be damaged at all. If ANY USB ports work properly with ANY device, it's extremely likely there's nothing actually wrong with the USB controller(s) built into your mboard.
However, if wiring to USB headers on the mboard is wired up wrong, or if the wires themselves are inadequate, or if the connectors are loose for the wires at the header, or if you have an IRQ sharing problem, some ports may not work properly, or some devices may not work properly in certain ports.
Whatever original wiring your brand name system had when new was probably correct, but someone may have messed with that since, or they may have added a wiring adapter in a slot space at the back (the ports are in a plate that is perpendicular to the mboard - parallel to the ends of the case, not the sides) that is farther away from the power supply.
If an added wiring adapter does have the 5 connections for a USB port, that fifth connection may not be the type the mboard requires. Each USB port requires only 4 connections - if in doubt, connect only 4 - sometimes you can do that without having to cut the fifth wire.
It's possible the case front port's wiring has always been inadequate for some devices - I've seen a few cases of that.

"When I look inside I see that all the usb sockets at the back are connected to 2 cables and form one end that goes into the motherboard to a set of pins called usb1 and also see that there are 2 usb cables to form one at the end that goes into another set of pins into the motherboard called usb 2."

Newer desktop mboards have lots of physical USB ports built into the mboard in the main I/O area parallel to the side of the case at the back of the case, where most of the ports are, closer to the power supply. Older mboards may have only a few such ports there, often two, or if even older no USB ports there at all and you must connect wiring for front ports or wiring adapters for plates in a slot at the back of the case to USB headers on the mboard. Most mboards have one or more USB headers, usually each header is for a pair of USB ports, no matter how many are physical ports built into the mboard.

Which pin is for what in the USB headers on the mboard, and which wire is for what in one piece 4 or 5 in a row or double row female wiring connectors to ports was never standardized. A particular mboard manufacturer tends to stick to the same pattern of which pin is for what on the USB headers, but different manufacturers don't necessarily do that the same way, so that varies. If the wiring adapter came with the system, or is one that is wiring to a plate you install in a slot space that came with a mboard if it's a generic system, it is always compatible with the wiring of the headers, but an added wiring adapter may not be. Front case port which wire is for what also varies.
.....

This probably doesn't apply to your mboard.

On some mboards, if the mboard has a firewire header, the physical layout of the pins on the mboard header may be identical to that for a header for a pair of USB ports. In that case, if you connect the wiring for one or a pair of USB ports to the firewire header, or visa versa, you won't notice anything wrong when nothing is plugged into the mis-wired port, but when something IS plugged into the mis-wired port, all hell breaks loose! The circuits for the mis-wired header will be damaged in a short time, and the device you plugged in may also be damaged in a short time and never work again.

If you tell us which Aspire model you have, I can probably find out what the pattern of wiring for the USB headers on the mboard is.
Acer may or may not have made the mboard. If they made it, it's probably an AOpen model (AOpen = Acer Open) - if not a mboard in most brand name systems could have been made by any major mboard maker and supplied to to the brand, in this case Acer, with a bios version on it made by or made for the brand, in this case Acer, to their specs.

If you tell use whether the female wiring connectors from the ports have individual connectors for each wire (which will work with any USB header), or are 4 in a row, or 5 in a row, or are a double row connector (which may or may not work properly with the USB header) , I may be able to tell you whether the female connectors wiring will work properly with the mboard header, or if they are a pair one 4 in a row, one 5 in a row, whether they can be connected to the header a different way.

If all your USB ports connect to USB headers on the mboard, the wiring for them can all be unplugged - you don't need to cut any wires. If you get and install a PCI USB 2.0 controller card, it may or may not have one or two headers with pins on the card that can be connected inside the case to wiring for USB ports - often the card has a regular female USB port or two inside the case on the card instead of a header or headers with pins. You may or may not be able to connect the female wiring connectors for the front USB ports to that without having to cut wires and connect to some other connector.

If the wires are inadequate, changing the connectors on the ends of the wires will not change anything - you have to change the wires. There is no difference between the USB ports themselves ports for USB 1.x or 2.0 otherwise.
If you can't get the front USB port to work properly with everything because it's wires are inadequate, other alternatives are you could use (a) USB extension cable(s) from (a) USB port(s) on the back of the case (male to female, type A), or you could get a USB 2.0 rated device with USB ports that has a cable that can be directly wired to USB header on the mboard you can install in a spare 3.5" or 5.25" bay on the front of the case - e.g. some card reader devices you can install in a bay also have such USB ports, but make sure they have such a cable that connects to TWO ports on the header - many of them connect two ports to one mboard header port, or two ports to one regular USB male connector that must plug into a USB port on the back of the case - those are hubs and won't work with some devices.

If you use a PCI USB 2.0 controller card and disable the mboard's onboard USB controllers in the bios, you will probably lose USB related ACPI features in the bios - e.g. you probably won't be able to wake up the computer from Hibernate or Standby modes by wiggling a USB mouse, or by pressing a key on a USB keyboard - and you may or may not be able to access the mboard's bios with a USB keyboard (you can always access the bios with a PS/2 keyboard) .


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#6
July 3, 2009 at 17:53:31

Thank you again for you indepth explanation
You right with - switching which port connects to which USB header will not change anything - the same port still won't .

And like I said I got all 4 usb connectors at the back working.
After I tried swapping over all the pins with USB 1 and USB 2 , it showed me that it prooves that the 2 remaing usb connectors are the ones in the Front panel.
However I am not able to get into the front panel because it is not held in by screws or clips , but the whole thing seems to be riveted in.
If it only were that easy to get in as this site
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...

explains ,it would make it too easy.
By the way when people join up with http://www.computing.net/ they always expect you to include
their pc specifications , this pc thats having the usb problem
is a Gigabyte - GA-8PE667
Pentium 4 , 1.7ghs


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#7
July 4, 2009 at 10:31:09
As I have said, if you can't get the front ports to work properly with all USB devices that work in the back ports despite them being connected to the header correctly, you have to change the wires to them, or use one of the alternatives I mentioned.

I have one cheap generic case that has such inadequate front port wiring, and I have encountered other cases that have that problem.

e.g. if you can get at where the wires are soldered on despite the ports module being riveted on and you have or can borrow a soldering iron, buy a short USB 2.0 rated cable, chop the connectors off of it, and use that cable.
Or drill out the rivets then you should be able to change the wires - fasten it again with rivets or sheet metal screws of a suitable size.
USB 2.0 rated cables merely have wires that have specific wire gauge or larger and they often also have a braided wire shield around them in the cable (it connects to the port's ground). An unrated cable MAY work, it may not.

- for a friend's computer case she needed ports higher up on the front of the desktop (tower) case, because she uses a power wheelchair and USB cables or devices plugged into the ports lower down can be damaged by her wheelchair footrest platform hitting them.
I got her a cheap card reader device that installs in a floppy bay on the front of the case (or it can be installed in an additional adapter for installing a floppy drive in a 5 1/4" bay) that also has two USB ports with the proper wiring (to connect them to the pins on a header for two ports that has the same connections as yours (on an Asus mboard) . Since it's an older card reader (it may not recognize a card larger than 2gb) I got it locally for a clearance price - $6 - from a small place that builds custom computers and has lots of computer parts.
...........

The model of the mboard is helpful, but it would also be helpful if you supplied the Aspire model number. Someone might have replaced the orginal mboard - if so, the front port wiring/female connector(s) for it may not have the same use for the 5th connection in one row, and if so, you might get the message
"Power Surge on Hub Port: A USB Device has exceeded the power limits of its hub port."
regarding the front ports.

There are 4 GA-8PE667 models
http://www.giga-byte.com/Support/Mo...

I chose the plain GA-8PE667 model.
English manual download connection from America poor for me. I chose Europe.

Page 24
- F_USB1/F_USB2
9 pins on a double row 10 position header
Note the 5th connection for USB overcurrent on the 5 pin side of the header, and that the 4 pin side has no 5th connection.
The 4 pin side probably uses all odd numbers starting at 1
The pin in the 5 pin row beside 1 is 2, the other pins are probably 4,6,8,10

+5v (usually pin 2), D-, D+, Ground, Overcurrent
+5v (pin 1), D-, D+, Ground, No connection and probably no pin

That is the same pattern as some other mboard manufacturers use, e.g. Asus, and is common pattern for generic 2 port USB wiring adapter's female connector(s), etc., and SOME case front 2 port wiring.

- if the wiring has individual connectors on each wire, or individual connectors for +5v and ground, a dual connector for data, it will work with this header and all other (or many others if it has dual connectors for data) , but if there is a 5th wire for one or both ports, it may or may not be compatible with what the header intended for it to be connected to - don't connect it if in doubt.

- If the female wiring connector is one piece double row, one pin hole blocked in a corner, it will work and can only be installed on the header one way, if the use for the 5th connection for the header and the port are the same - if they're not the same, you must either cut the 5th wire or release it's metal end from it's socket in the connector.

- if the wiring has two female connectors for a pair of ports, one 4 in a row (always has 4 wires) , the other 5 in a row, 5 wires (some have 4 wires - not applicable in the following)
- the wire for +5v , often red or a solid color other than black, should be on pins 1 or 2 (the one in the other row beside 1 in any case) in this header.
- if the use of the 5th connection in the one row is the same for both the header and the port (it can be either overcurrent, or a second ground for the outer metal "shell" of the port), the 5 in a row connector can be on the 5 pin side without you getting an error message from the mboard, or the 4 pin side (no connection to the 5th wire) ; the 4 in a row connector can be on the 4 pin side, or the 5 pin side (no connection to the 5th pin).
- if the use of the 5th connection in the one row is NOT the same for both the header and the port, the 5 in a row connector CANNOT be on the 5 pin side without you getting an error message from the mboard - you must place the 5 in a row connector on the 4 pin side (the 5th wire has no connection) ; the 4 in a row connector goes on the 5 pin side (no connection to the 5th pin).

- if the wiring has two female connectors for a pair of ports, both 5 in a row, 5 wires.
- the wire for +5v , often red or a solid color other than black, should be on pins 1 or 2 (the one in the other row beside 1) in this header.
- if the use of the 5th connection in the one row is the same for both the header and the port, you can connect either connector to either row.
- if the use of the 5th connection in the one row is NOT the same for both the header and the port, the 5 in a row connector CANNOT be on the 5 pin side without you getting an error message from the mboard - you must place one 5 in a row connector on the 4 pin side; the other 5 in a row connector goes on the 5 pin side, but you must either cut the 5th wire or release it's metal end from it's socket in the connector.
........

Also in the manual....

Bios Setup - Integrated Peripherals
- USB Controller - Enable (or Disabled) (so you have one controller) - must be enabled if you want to use the onboard USB, of course.

- USB Keyboard Support - Disabled (or Enable)
- USB Mouse Support - Disabled (or Enable)

You only need to enable these if you want to be able to use a USB keyboard to access the bios Setup, or if you want to be able to use a USB mouse in the bios Setup.


....

Side notes...

In many bioses there is no support for using a mouse of any kind in the bios Setup.

In most bioses, if you're not using a PS/2 mouse, disabling support for a PS/2 mouse in the bios frees up IRQ 12 for use by other devices (sometimes disabling it doesn't allow any device to use IRQ 12) - but you have to make sure the PnP config has it set to PnP use in the bios. Not many things can use IRQ 12, but some network cards and USB controllers can.
....

The USB headers for a particular mboard manufacturer are identical for models made about the same time, but sometimes a manufacturer changes that over time.
That applies in the case of Gigabyte mboards.

Older Gigabyte mboard USB headers (oddball)

10 position double row header.
+5v, D-, D+, no connection and no pin, Ground
Ground, no connection and no pin, D+, D-, +5v

The proper one piece double row female connector for the 2 port plate has blocked holes where there is no pin on the header. It can't be placed on the header backwards - it can go on either way.
I have one - it's not compatible with any other manufacturer's USB header - you're unlikely to find one locally.

Obviously 4 in a row connectors will not work with the older headers. Commonly wired 5 in a row, 5 wire connectors will work if you pay attention to which wire connects to the +5v end in each row, but only if the use for the 5th connection for the 5 connection side is a second ground.
.........

Another oddball header.
This was used on older Mitac mboards - e.g. many older Compaq models made ~ 1998 to 2001 or so have OEM only Mitac mboards.

10 position double row header.
Ground (pin 1), Dat 1+, +5v, Dat 2+, ground
Ground (pin 6, beside pin 1), Dat1-, +5v, Dat 2-, no connection and no pin.

Commonly wired 4 in a row and 5 in a row and commonly wired one piece double row connectors cannot be used with this header. You can use double connectors for DAT 1 + and - , and and Dat 2 + and -, across the rows.


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#8
July 6, 2009 at 18:17:14
Ok , I finally got the front panel off. Here is the screenshot

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/31...

[URL=http://img18.imageshack.us/i/usbfront.jpg/][IMG]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3176/usbfront.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I would like to know why the usb sockets are inside this module,
and what else this module contains , like components and that, and what is the name of this usb module ?
How much do they cost ?
Can I test this with a multimeter , to see if something is shorting or something not connected that should be connected ?


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#9
July 10, 2009 at 10:14:00
If you had a brand name computer parts can be looked up for, such as a HP, Compaq, or Dell system model, you might be able to find out what the part number of the module is and use that to search with on the web, but that doesn't apply on to Acer as far as I know.

You have not told us what Acer model this is. That's usually on a label on the outside of the case somewhere, or on the back of an access door, etc. The Acer web site may have info about how the determine the model.
If we know the model, we MAY be able to find info about the case components.

What are the two small holes on the front of the module for? Are there leds there? If so, two, three, or four of the wires that go to the module would be for those (2 if they share a ground with the USB ports, 3 if they don't but the two leds share a ground, 4 if they don't and each led has it's own ground.

You haven't told us what you have regarding a female connector or connectors on the ends of the cables that go to the front module. Do you have two 4 in a row or 5 in a row connectors, or a one piece connector with 8, 9, or 10 wires, or individual connectors, or what.
Are two USB ports connected from the mboard header to the module or just one? (On some cases, the front port is a 2 port hub, not two individual ports wired directly to the header).
How many wires connect from the USB header to the front module? 8? 9?
Are there more than 8 or 9 wires that connect to the module?

If the front ports are wired to 2 USB ports on the header, there is not much if anything inside the module between the wires and the ports. They are either directly wired, soldered onto the ports or perhaps via cicuit traces on a tiny PCB, or there may be some simple components involved but no electronic circuits.
There is an electronic circuit ONLY if it's a hub (only the wiring for one USB port on a header connects to the front module). Lots of devices will not work properly when plugged into a port on such a hub.

If it's the wires/cables that are inadequate, even if you could find a replacement module, it's extremely likely you would still have the same problem.
.........

Solutions that will work for sure.

- for about $10 or less, you can probably locally buy a USB 2.0 rated two port adapter - a plate that installs in a spare slot space at the back of the case, that has a compatible female connector(s)/wiring to it/them.
- If you must have ports at the front, you could only buy, or also buy, (a) USB 2.0 rated extension cable(s) (male to female, type A).

- buy and install an adapter that installs in a spare bay on the front of the case farther up, that has directly wired to individual USB header cables .

E.g. this is what I used for my friend's computer case:

Local places may have this, or something similar...

Flash Genie
NOTE - Since it's an older card reader it may not recognize a memory card larger than 2gb.

- in Canada:

For 3 1/2" floppy bay

Out of stock - better description
http://www.interbatteries.ca/produc...
In Stock
http://www.1buy.ca/outproduct.php/1548
http://www.buy-battery.ca/outproduc...
http://www.go-shop.ca/outproduct.ph...
For 5 1/4" bay
http://www.1buy.ca/outproduct.php/1549
http://www.go-shop.ca/outproduct.ph...

3.5" in US:
http://www.easy-battery.com/compute...

5 1/4" in US:
http://www.easy-battery.com/compute...

NOTE that some of those card reader / multiple port adapters you can install in a spare case bay have two USB ports but they connect to the pins for only ONE port on a mboard header, in which case it's a two port hub which will NOT work with all USB devices, or they don't connect the USB ports on the adapter to a mboard header at all and have (a) cable(s) with a regular USB male plug you must plug externally into a port the back of the case, or there may be only one cable that connects to USB for both the card reader and the USB ports.

I KNOW this Flash Genie has separate cables for each of two ports on a mboard header, and the one piece connector's wiring on the other end will work with your mboard header. All devices that work in the back ports work in these ports.
The cable for the card reader itself has a regular USB male plug you must plug externally into a port the back of the case. It comes with a custom blank plate with a U shaped hole you can install in a slot space to route that cable through rather than you having to remove a regular blank plate to do that and having a larger hole.

There are probably other similar adapters that will work, but you must go to the web site of the manufacturer of the model and confirm what the wiring to the USB ports is, or if you get it locally, open up the box BEFORE you buy it and examine it's cables. If you have memory cards you want to be able to read, if you choose a different adapter, make sure it can read cards larger than 2gb if you have a need for that.

.....

A solution that MIGHT work.
Do you have a spare computer case you could install the components in ? If so does it have front USB ports?
If so those ports MIGHT work fine. If the front USB ports are easily removable, you could try them with the Gigabyte mboard before transferring the components.



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