Solved Palit GeForce GTS450 Sonic 1024 MB

Hewlett-packard Compaq presario c700 not...
February 4, 2012 at 18:27:58
Specs: Windows Vista, 2 GHz / 3061 MB
Hi,

My problem is i got this used not new card today(Palit GeForce GTS450 Sonic) i put it in a dell xps 420 after plugging all the cables back in the computer turned on by itself, without pressing the on button, within two second it switched off then another two second on and stayed on but no display or signal on the screen and the fan was spinning. so i took it out because it seems like it is shorting out.

I then put my nvidia 8800gtx back in and the pc works fine. luckily.

I wont be using the card but all i want to know is what is wrong with the gts450?

Has it been overclocked and they killed the card or something?

Thanks in advance.


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✔ Best Answer
February 6, 2012 at 07:30:04
"When the 8800 is connected i have to press the button to turn it on, but with the 450 it turns on by itself. "

Okay, in that case, I should modify what I said to...
"The behavior is the same for the same default or user set setting in the bios, whatever video card you have installed..." ...... , if the video card is working correctly.

The (max output) wattage capacity of the power supply is a lot less important than the max amperage rating of the +12 v output(s), which is the vast majority of what the video chipset on card in the PCI-E X16 slot requires. Obviously your 375 watt PS has enough of a +12v amperage rating for the 8800 GTX video chipset which requires more power, so that's more than adequate for the GTS 450.

The usual info I supply about that...

"Your power supply must have at least the minimum capacity required to support a system with the graphics card you are using installed, or the max graphics card you might install in the future.
(Onboard video - video built into the mboard - IS NOT A CARD ! )
If that info is not in the ad for the video card, you can go to the video card maker's web site and look up the specs for the model - often under system requirements - the minimum PS wattage, and, more important, the minimum amperage the PS must supply at 12v is stated. If you don't find that, any card with the same video chipset including any letters after the model number has very similar minimum PS requirements. Some power supplies have two or more +12v ratings - in that case, add those ratings to determine the total +12v current capacity.

If you're a gamer...
In most if not all cases, the max capacity rating of the PS is an intermittent rating. It's recommended that you do not load your PS to any more that 80% of that rating if you are going to be using something that puts a constant load on it, such as playing a recent game for hours on end. In that case, you multiply the min capacity stated for the system with the particular video chipset on the card by 1.25 to find the min. capacity of the PS you should have. "

Unfortunately, the minimum current rating at +12 v for the system as a whole isn't always stated for the video chipset. You can often find some real world test like what riider found that tells you how much power the particular video chipset actually requires, the vast majority of that is at +12 v, but the rest of your components require some current at +12 v too.

For the same wattage capacity
- older power supply models have a higher amperage rating at +5 v, less at +12v
- el-cheapo models tend to have less than the average amperage rating at +12 v than better models do.
- in almost all cases, brand name systems have el-cheapo model power supplies, and in many cases the capacity is minimal, especially for small form factor systems, and installing any decent video card often requires you get a PS that has more capacity.
- some good quality power supply models designed for gaming computers have a lot more than the average amperage rating at +12 v .
E.g. There is an Enermax 385 watt model that puts out 30A at +12v, which is more than an average 450 watt PS puts out.

"I know the 450 card is dead i just wanted to know why it is (shorting out) well thats what it seemed like anyway."

I have never been able to determine why a malfunctioning video card doesn't work, but I have determined how it probably got damaged in most cases . When I have examined them there's never been anything obvious to see, other than possibly scorch marks on the contacts, or a cooling fan that no longer spins.
If I were you I would have it in the slot as little time as possible - it could be a damaged card could damage the PCI-E X16's slot circuits.



#1
February 4, 2012 at 22:41:51

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#2
February 5, 2012 at 06:42:38
Thanks for the info riider.

Do you have any idea why the card is doing that? ive never seen that before.


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#3
February 5, 2012 at 08:24:28
"after plugging all the cables back in the computer turned on by itself, without pressing the on button, within two second it switched off then another two second on and stayed on ..."

The behavior of the bios / mboard / power supply after AC power has been restored depends on either default bios settings you can't change, or the setting of a bios setting you can change. If it does have a setting you can change, it's presently set to start up the mboard when AC power is restored - you can change that to have it NOT start up after AC power has been restored. The behavior is the same for the same default or user set setting in the bios, whatever video card you have installed.
Some mboards / bioses will briefly start up regardless of that setting when you first restore the AC power.

"...then another two second on and stayed on but no display or signal on the screen and the fan was spinning."

It should produce video. Something was / is wrong.

You MUST remove the AC power to the power supply when you unplug or plug in a video card, or any other card, or the ram, or make any change to connections for the mboard or the power supply inside the case.
Did you do that at ALL times ?
If you didn't, the mboard is always powered in some places, including some of the contacts in the mboard slots, even when the computer is not running, as long as the PS is receiving live AC power. You may have damaged the circuits on the GTS 450 card.

Are you connecting the monitor to the same port type as you were with the 8800 GTX ?
E..g. you may have a problem if you connect to the HDMI port, or if you're using a different cable, when you didn't before

Did you plug in all the necessary connectors from the PS to the mboard and the video card ?

The Dell XPS 420 series comes with either a 375 or 425 watt power supply
http://support.dell.com/support/edo...

The 375 watt one has one PCI-E 6 pin connector (P12); the 425 watt one has two (P12 and P15)

The 24 pin main power connector (DC Power Connector P1) AND the 4 pin power connector (DC Power Connector P2 ) MUST be connected to the mboard.

Did you have both of those connected ?

According to the info at riider's link the GTS 450 video chipset uses less power than the 8800 GTX video chipset, so since the power supply works for the 8800 GTX, the same power supply should work with the GTS 450.

There are three possible Palit GeForce® GTS 450 Sonic models

GeForce® GTS 450 Sonic Platinum - Twin Light Turbo (1024MB GDDR5)
http://www.palit.biz/palit/vgapro.p...

Two fans
Two DVI, one VGA, one HDMI video ports


GeForce® GTS 450 Sonic Platinum (1024MB GDDR5)
http://www.palit.biz/palit/vgapro.p...

Two DVI, one VGA, one HDMI video ports


GeForce® GTS 450 Sonic (1024MB GDDR5)
http://www.palit.biz/palit/vgapro.p...

One DVI, one VGA, one HDMI ports

Specs - probably for all of them:

Graphics Card Power (W) 107 W
Minimum Recommended System Power (W) 400 W
Supplementary Power Connectors 6-pin X1

Did you remember to connect to it's one 6 pin socket ?

Are you SURE the GTS 450 casrd was all the way down in it's slot and that it's metal bracket was fastened down BEFORE you restored AC power ?
If either of those things were not right, the circuits on the card may have been damaged - a card that is not fastened down can easily move upwards in it's slot when you plug in the monitor.
.............

If you are SURE all of those things were / are right, and if you're connecting the monitor to the same port type with the same cable, the 8800 GTX still working proves the power supply is still fine, so the only thing left is the card's circuits are fried.


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#4
February 5, 2012 at 10:10:27
Omg i forgot to say the 450 i bought off ebay with no display or signal planning to fix for a friend. like i did with the 8800 for myself.

When the 8800 is connected i have to press the button to turn it on, but with the 450 it turns on by itself. i always disconnect all leads and wires from the tower as i have to move it from under the desk to take something out or put something in.

The motherboard has a orange light and i always wait for that to go out before i remove or add anything.

I had them both connected by dvi at only one time as the motherboard has only one slot.

The psu is 375w more like a 450w ive been told with one 6 pin but i used a connecter from a molex to power the 8800. which works great.

The 450 only has one fan its not the platinum.

I know the 450 card is dead i just wanted to know why it is (shorting out) well thats what it seemed like anyway.

Thanks for your time with this.


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#5
February 6, 2012 at 07:30:04
✔ Best Answer
"When the 8800 is connected i have to press the button to turn it on, but with the 450 it turns on by itself. "

Okay, in that case, I should modify what I said to...
"The behavior is the same for the same default or user set setting in the bios, whatever video card you have installed..." ...... , if the video card is working correctly.

The (max output) wattage capacity of the power supply is a lot less important than the max amperage rating of the +12 v output(s), which is the vast majority of what the video chipset on card in the PCI-E X16 slot requires. Obviously your 375 watt PS has enough of a +12v amperage rating for the 8800 GTX video chipset which requires more power, so that's more than adequate for the GTS 450.

The usual info I supply about that...

"Your power supply must have at least the minimum capacity required to support a system with the graphics card you are using installed, or the max graphics card you might install in the future.
(Onboard video - video built into the mboard - IS NOT A CARD ! )
If that info is not in the ad for the video card, you can go to the video card maker's web site and look up the specs for the model - often under system requirements - the minimum PS wattage, and, more important, the minimum amperage the PS must supply at 12v is stated. If you don't find that, any card with the same video chipset including any letters after the model number has very similar minimum PS requirements. Some power supplies have two or more +12v ratings - in that case, add those ratings to determine the total +12v current capacity.

If you're a gamer...
In most if not all cases, the max capacity rating of the PS is an intermittent rating. It's recommended that you do not load your PS to any more that 80% of that rating if you are going to be using something that puts a constant load on it, such as playing a recent game for hours on end. In that case, you multiply the min capacity stated for the system with the particular video chipset on the card by 1.25 to find the min. capacity of the PS you should have. "

Unfortunately, the minimum current rating at +12 v for the system as a whole isn't always stated for the video chipset. You can often find some real world test like what riider found that tells you how much power the particular video chipset actually requires, the vast majority of that is at +12 v, but the rest of your components require some current at +12 v too.

For the same wattage capacity
- older power supply models have a higher amperage rating at +5 v, less at +12v
- el-cheapo models tend to have less than the average amperage rating at +12 v than better models do.
- in almost all cases, brand name systems have el-cheapo model power supplies, and in many cases the capacity is minimal, especially for small form factor systems, and installing any decent video card often requires you get a PS that has more capacity.
- some good quality power supply models designed for gaming computers have a lot more than the average amperage rating at +12 v .
E.g. There is an Enermax 385 watt model that puts out 30A at +12v, which is more than an average 450 watt PS puts out.

"I know the 450 card is dead i just wanted to know why it is (shorting out) well thats what it seemed like anyway."

I have never been able to determine why a malfunctioning video card doesn't work, but I have determined how it probably got damaged in most cases . When I have examined them there's never been anything obvious to see, other than possibly scorch marks on the contacts, or a cooling fan that no longer spins.
If I were you I would have it in the slot as little time as possible - it could be a damaged card could damage the PCI-E X16's slot circuits.


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#6
February 6, 2012 at 11:54:32
I really appreciate your time on this.

if i don't connect the 6 pin power supply to the card the pc acts normal. still with no display or signal on the moniter tho, its only when the 6 pin is connected that the pc turns on and off.

Does this mean that the problem is on the extra power supply circuit or does this card only get the power from the 6 pin and not the pci slot?

Im looking into the voltage and ampage now.


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#7
February 6, 2012 at 21:46:04
"Does this mean that the problem is on the extra power supply circuit..."

I don't know. Maybe.

There's nothing wrong with the power supply's 12V 6 pin connector's supply since the 8800 GTX card works fine.

"... or does this card only get the power from the 6 pin and not the pci slot?"

The card gets its +12v power from both sources.
If the video chipset on the card requires the system's PS has about 300 watts capacity or less, there is no / are no socket(s) on the card (than can be two of them) - it gets it all from the slot.
.....

I said:

"The Dell XPS 420 series comes with either a 375 or 425 watt power supply"

"The 375 watt one has one PCI-E 6 pin connector (P12); the 425 watt one has two (P12 and P15)"

You said:

"The psu is 375w more like a 450w ive been told with one 6 pin but i used a connecter from a molex to power the 8800. which works great."{

That's the right way to connect to the second socket on the 8800 GTX, if it has TWO molex connectors on one end that connect to TWO spare molex power connectors from the power supply, and one 6 pin PCI-E male connector on the other end.

A connection of that to ONE spare molex power connector from the power supply may not supply enough current.

A 6 pin Y cable wiring adapter - one female 6 pin plugged into the one male 6 pin connector from the power supply, to two male 6 pin connectors for the sockets - probably cannot supply enough current for the 8800 GTX.

I assume you're using the power supply's built in 6 pin connector for the GTS 450.

Make sure that the metal ends on the wires in the connectors are locked into their connectors and are not moving when plugged in.


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#8
February 7, 2012 at 05:26:29
Also, make sure the 'Y' connector is plugged into molex connectors on separate wire bundles, not two plugs on the same lead set, that is like using only one.

You have to be a little bit crazy to keep you from going insane.


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#9
February 8, 2012 at 07:23:22
I only have one molex on the power supply so the 6 pin is connected to that. and is not a y connecter

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-PIN-PCI-E-MOLEX-4-PIN-POWER-ADAPTER-CABLE-PCI-EXPRESS-/320814648300?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item4ab20b0bec

that is the cable a bought for the 8800gtx card which works well with no problems so thought it would be enough power for the gts 450.

As for the amp rail it is 12v 26-30a on different sites that i have look at.


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#10
February 8, 2012 at 07:59:25
The 8800 GTX card has two power sockets on it and requires more current that can be provided when you connect only one connector from the PS to one socket on it.
It could be that it does have enough current provided to it when you connect the molex to 6 pin wiring adapter to only one molex drive connector from the PS, as well as the built in 6 pin connector, but that molex to 6 pin wiring adapter CANNOT provide enough current to the single socket on the GTS 450, when it's only connected to one spare molex drive connector from the PS.

The Dell manual shows the 375 watt PS as having one built in 6 pin connector.
Try using the built in 6 pin connector from the PS for the GTS 450, NOT the molex to 6 pin wiring adapter !


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#11
February 8, 2012 at 08:25:08
Yea used the built in 6 pin and the same happened, to be honest i think the card is fried. im starting to give up on it, but i got my money back on the card through ebay because it wasn't as advertised so its at no loss now really.

i really appreciate you both helping me on this.

I think the person before me has tried to reflow it as one of the stickers is brown. when looking at it now it looks like the card is bent in the middle so they have reflowed it to long. i think it is a bin job. unless someone can make use of it. the fan still works at least.


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#12
February 8, 2012 at 11:05:42
There were some problems with some NVidia video chipsets, more than once, in the past that the "reflow" method SOMETIMES worked for, but I have never heard of that applying to more recent NVidia video chipsets.
There were even some video card makers who switched from only making cards with NVidia video chipsets, or both NVidia and ATI / AMD video chipsets, to only ATI / AMD video chipsets because of that problem.

I have never heard of ATI / AMD video chipsets EVER having that problem.
.....

The built in 6 pin PCI-E connectors are rated for up to 75 watts = up to 6.25 amps at +12 v - they have two +12 v wires (and ground wires).
Since they have two +12 v wires, a molex to 6 pin PCI-E wiring adapter must have two molex connectors that are connected to spare two molex power connectors from the PS in order to be able to supply up to 75 watts = up to 6.25 amps at +12 v . There is one +12 v wire, one +5v wire, and two grounds on the molex drive connectors coming from the PS.

The wires from the PS must be at least a minimum wire gauge number, or lower (the lower the wire gauge number, the greater the diameter / thickness of the actual wire, inside the insulation).
The thicker the actual wire, the more current it can supply.
El-cheapo PSs tend to have the minimum wire diameter / thickness, better PSs often have thicker wires, but there is a upper limit - if it's too thick, it's much more difficult to bend the wire, if that's required.

According to the info at the link in riider's first post, the 8800 GTX video chipset draws up to 155 watts, the GTS 450 up to 106 watts (Palit's specs say 107 watts).

Note - that is the max power required. The video chipset may still work if it can't get enough current for the max power at +12 v when the load on it is not at the max, but it will NOT work properly when the video chipset is loaded to the max in that situation.

The cards get part of their +12 v power from the PCI-E X16 slot, say, up to 50 watts, or up to 4.17 amps, at +12 v, the rest of +12 v power from the 6 (or 8) pin power socket(s) on the card. (They may also use +5 v and / or +3.3 v power from the PCI-E X16 slot but it isn't significant.)

So, if the slot provides e.g. 50 watts at +12 v...

- the 8880 GTX requires about 155 - 50 = 105 watts at +12 v from it's two sockets on the card - the second socket connected to the molex to 6 pin power adapter would have to supply at least 105 - 75 = 30 watts, so if the molex to 6 pin wiring adapter is only connected to one spare molex drive connector the video chipset will work when it's loaded to the max ( half of 75 watts = 37.5 watts).

- the GTS 450 requires about 106 - 50 = 56 watts from it's one socket on the card - the built in 6 pin PCI-E connector can supply 75 watts so that's more than adequate - if the molex to 6 pin wiring adapter is only connected to one spare molex drive connector it will NOT be able to supply enough power to the video chipset at it's max load (half of 75 watts = 37.5 watts).


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