New Mobo and CPU, no video, no post, no beeps. Impossible!

April 17, 2014 at 20:10:08
Specs: Windows 7, Intel Core 2 Duo
Impossible problem that somehow exists.
Previous Motherboard: Removed Celeron and replaced with Core2 Duo CPU. Mobo would not post, send video or beep. Assumed bad Core2, replaced with Celeron again. Same thing despite working fine previously. Assumed Mobo issue. Maybe we killed it when we pulled the old CPU.
New mobo comes in. Put in Core2 Duo, exact same issue as above. Both boards I read specs and both support the CPUs. Pulled mobo from the case, and set on static bag. same deal. changed power supply, same deal. Everything in the case powers on but no video, no beep, no post. Also tried two monitors and video settings. The only thing that has been on both boards is the two CPUs and the heatsink. ? This is impossible yet here I sit confused by it. Not a noob. Been working in IT for 11 years and cut my teeth on hardware... for years. I'm friggin' stumped and quite annoyed by it.

See More: New Mobo and CPU, no video, no post, no beeps. Impossible!

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#1
April 17, 2014 at 21:30:36
If you've worked in IT for 11 years like you said, then you should know that was seems impossible is ALWAYS possible. You've definitely covered all the main issues already.

To me, this would seem like the Core2Duo is contacting energy to points where it shouldn't be contacting to, and keeps frying stuff whenever it gets inserted. Was this Core2Duo previously in a fully functioning system?

But even then having random contact points to me shouldn't completely kill a mobo. What model is the mobo and what video card is in it? I would doubt the video card is the cause but it always pays to cover all the points.

What other peripherals attached? PCI cards? SATA or IDE hard drives? Etc? This seems a bit beyond my level of expertise, I'm mainly collecting information for the benefit of the more knowledgeable people here.

~oldie
Not everyone can decipher Klingon script...
chay' ta' SoH tlhe' vam Doch Daq


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#2
April 17, 2014 at 22:57:50
I don't think it's a good idea to power up anything while it's on a static bag. A static bag isn't a non-conducting surface. It's meant to conduct static away from electronics. But if you power something up while it's in contact with a static bag you can short it out. You need to set it on wood--a table or piece of plywood--or on cardboard.

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#3
April 18, 2014 at 03:30:06
My guess your boards have onboard speaker.
Did u try clearing CMOS?
Did u try start without memory?
Does CPU & chipset get hot when u power system on?
Did u try to turn it on without CPU 4-pin +12v connector?

You know the real meaning of peace only if you have been through the war.


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Related Solutions

#4
April 18, 2014 at 03:47:43
Yes, applying power to a motherboard while it is sitting on on a static bag a very good way to kill it stone dead.

Stuart


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#5
April 18, 2014 at 07:17:57
Clean edge of RAM contacts with pencil eraser, then rubbing alcohol, then snap in and out 4 or 5 times. Do the same on video card. Try without RAM and with one at a time. Assume you have some experience as per your info but I am including links to thermal compound application and bench testing just in case a review would help:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_a...
http://www.techsupportforum.com/for...
Try looking carefully at the CPU contacts and socket contact points in case there is a bad or bent one. If the CPU was used/abused or someone tried unsuccessfully to follow an old jump the 'pins' trick on the CPU (wire soldered across), then it might have shorted one or both boards. Even overvolting it at some point might have severely damaged it at some point.
When you first swapped out the CPU, were you careful to make sure that no screws fell loose into the case and that no wires were pinched or cut along any sharp edges in your case?
** Just throwing out many things at random in case anything rings a bell or strikes something in your mind that might help. **

You have to be a little bit crazy to keep you from going insane.


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#6
April 18, 2014 at 14:48:25
Thanks folks. Much appreciated. Let me hit the high points.
Firstly, ya'll are getting too strung up over the static bag. I'm aware what it is and what it will and won't do but thanks anyway. Long before I placed it on a static bag, I tried it in the case, then another case. Then pulled it and set it on my wooden desk. The problems existed before the static bag so let's put that to rest. I have not looked at this since my post but let me layout all other stuff I tried in detail as well as what I know to be fact. Maybe there was something obvious I don't see.
Original board is a Gigabyte with onboard and external video. Ran over ext vid and Celeron CPU fine but my son got older and then got into minecraft. Of course the Celeron is crap for such a thing so I bought a Core 2 Duo, DDR3 Memory (8GB)-- Lets not degrade the discussion into how a quad-core is better for gaming, etc... I require my boy to "earn" such things.-- and removed the Celeron and installed the Core2 Duo which he and I did together. His first PC upgrade at 9yrs old so I was expecting the chance that something gets broken. Put in the Core2 (working pull from a trustworthy seller) and immediately, the problem starts. No Post, No Beep (yes the speaker is hooked to the board), no video output. I assume he broke something during the pile-driver slips with the screwdriver a few times but let it run to see. After a few, you could hear it reboot and power up (no beeps) and repeat more and more frequently. Easy.. over-heating. Pull heatsink, put a MUCH bigger one on spec'd for quad-core, clean and add grease. Rebooting stops. Just runs and no video. Convinced we've killed the board, I remember my training and drop into hardware diagnosis mode.
I remove every component until all that is left is a mobo on my desk with a CPU, Heatsink, power wire from the case, ATX Power connector (left ATX 4 Pin unplugged). No external components, no extras of any kind. No memory either. Now before you start yelling that you can't boot a mobo without memory, let me assure you I know this. What you CAN do though is test the most basic functionality before hearing the beep that complains of no memory. This covers the PSU self-test. If it is good, the timer sends a reset to the CPU, the CPU executes the BIOS of the ROM and then starts executing the ROM BIOS which THEN starts looking for attached crap like video cards, on-board mem, etc. At least that's how I remember it but I may be a bit rusty. So at this point there is no reason I shouldn't get a beep unless my speaker is bad or it's not getting the reset to the CPU, right? Exactly what I thought. Let's eliminate the easy stuff first. I then pulled a speaker from another case and wired it to the board. Still no love. So this tells me, Power supply maybe. The timer chip is not getting a "good power' signal and never progresses beyond that. I plug in the 4pin. Still no love. I go get another power supply from the basement (I have way too many spare computers & parts), and plug it in. It's a Dell PSU of 300w. Smaller than my 450w but should be enough and has the 4pin connector. I get the same problem. No post, no beep, no video. Musta killed the mobo but one more test. Pull the Core2 and replace with the Celeron I just pulled. EXACT same problem. HAS TO BE the mobo. Order new mobo, repeat ALL above steps and EXACT same results like deja friggin' vu. Okay.. one more thing. I pull a Pentium4 from a running machine I test by powering on and booting up XP before pulling it. I put it in the brand new mobo and EXACT same problem. I've now tried, 3 CPUs, 2 MOBOs, 2 Speakers, 2 PSUs and a friggin' Partridge in a Pear Tree. What am I missing peeps? A little third-set-of-eyes is needed. Thanks for reading my novel.

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#7
April 18, 2014 at 15:26:29
You should be bench testing right from the start. Let's go down the list:

- board
- CPU with heatsink; properly installed with correct amount of thermal material
- one stick of RAM
- PSU with both the 24-pin main ATX & 4-pin ATX12V connected to board
- monitor connected to onboard graphics port
- keyboard (preferably PS/2 if board supports it)
- motherboard speaker

That's it. Switch on monitor & PSU, then jump start the board using a flat-blade screwdriver to short out the appropriate pins. BTW, if you attempt to boot with no RAM installed, the speaker should beep continuously. And why haven't you provided more info about the hardware, make & model numbers?


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#8
April 18, 2014 at 23:51:08
I'm puzzled. Why try running without the 4 pin CPU power plugged in? Why try running resting on a static bag if you know this is going to short- circuit the board? There doesn't seem to be any point in trying things that are either not going to work or are likely to fry the motherboard.

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#9
April 20, 2014 at 09:36:07
Thanks again, Folks.
iJack.. you've been mislead, my friend. You can't fry a mobo as a result of setting it on a static-free bag. Now, when I say static-free bag, I'm not talking about the pink ones that you can pass a charge through but the metallised polyethylene black bag. Setting on top of a static-free bag can't "prevent" it from being killed due to static shock just like wood can't because if your skin is charged and touches a component, it'll kill it on a bag or not. When working with electronics, the most important thing is to make sure the surface and your body are static free. Setting it on a static-free bag is part 1 or two. Again, it's a non-issue because I didn't short-circuit the board "as a result" of setting it on a static bag nor do I suspect the board is fried. Moving on....
Starting the board without the 4PIN was for basic testing only. Some, not all boards, will power up with just the 24pin connected and immediately shut off when they attempt to initialize the CPU or soft-restart as a result of the timer chip (on the board) sending the "power good" signal to the CPU. It sees no CPU to send that signal to and tries again and again. It creates a loop. This tells me that 24pin is doing it's job and that when I plug in the 4pin, I should see the soft-starts go away. If they don't, then the 4pin is dead and it's the PSU. Of course a voltage tester can tell you this too but this is just as useful. I believe you start at the most basic and work your way forward. So why start withtout the 4pin? It's my logical & methodical approach to things.
riider: Thank you. I used a more basic list to start (no keyboard or RAM) and then added on the speaker, keyboard, RAM, etc. Same thing. At this point, I'm going to install a Brand new outta the box PSU, test my CPUs in another MOBO and re install again in my troublesome boards if I have success. I'm sure it can only be the PSU or all 3 CPUs and I'm leaning toward PSU. Maybe both were bad and my luck is just that lousy. Stay tuned for an update.


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#10
April 20, 2014 at 13:01:58
You can't fry a mobo as a result of setting it on a static-free bag.

Oh Yes you can.

through but the metalised polyethylene black bag

The clue is in the word. metalised

When working with electronics, the most important thing is to make sure the surface and your body are static free.

Very true and the only way to do that is to discharge the static to Earth/Ground.

Static bags do nothing to discharge static, nothing at all. They are there to prevent a build up of static in electronics components that are not connected to a power supply.

A motherboard taken out of a computer that has been connected to power will not have any static potential as it will have been discharged via the power supply. So putting the motherboard on a static bag was a completely pointless and potentially dangerous thing to do.

Stuart


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#11
April 25, 2014 at 06:59:30
Thanks again, Folks.
Stuart. I still disagree but would love to see a mobo get fried by testing it on a metallized static bag. My curiosity is piqued. I'd recommend you set a board on a bag, remove the striker wires from a grill lighter and snap a charge across the bag (without touching the mobo). If you're right, the board or some component should be rendered useless. If you're wrong, the board will work just fine. Let's see some actual science to bust this myth. This sounds fun regardless the outcome. I may do it myself if I can get a minute. Additionally, let's not forget the problems I'm having happened WAY before the mobo touched a static bag so again, irrelevant.
At this point, I've had no time to look at the mobo since my last post. My son has his iPad and iPod so he's not buggin' me about it and I've got clients with tight deadlines this month so I doubt I'll revisit it before May. Just wanted to update. Thanks, all.


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#12
April 25, 2014 at 07:13:54
As a said before. metalized bag is the clue. The science is that most most metals are very good conductors. It can cause a short circuit.

I think you are missing the point entirely. You comments regarding grill lighters is of no relevance at all. A grill lighter generates a high voltage, very low amperage spark so what that has do with anything I have no idea. It puts no electric current anywhere near the items in question.

I have no intention of putting mother board with power applied anywhere near anything metallic, not even a screwdriver. That is why when I take a cardboard out of a case to test it, i place it on a piece of cardboard which is a very good insulator.

Stuart


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#13
April 25, 2014 at 09:32:05
It fails to quench my curiosity. It must be tried. No choice. I'll post it to my blog when I'm done. This is gonna be cool.

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#14
April 25, 2014 at 19:42:22
I don't know if this helps or confuses:

http://electronics.stackexchange.co...

I tested 3 different types of anti static bags with my $5 meter from Harbor Freight:

A silver colored bag registerd no infinite resistance on each of the ranges.
A solid black 'velostat' from 3M measured about 5 ohm on ranges 20K and higher
A grid bag from Honlyco with black stripes on clear plastic measured about 100 ohm in ranges of 200K and higher. Those measurements were taken on the stripes. It showed infinite resistance between the black stripes and clear plastic.

Similar testing with a better meter should show more precise results. Note that on higher ranges you need to make sure you're not touching the bag or meter leads with your fingers else you're measuring the resistance of your body in parallel with that of the bag.

message edited by DAVEINCAPS


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#15
April 25, 2014 at 19:57:01
NOYCE! Thanks DAVEINCAPS. I'll check that out for consistent results.
This thread has gone to place no other thread has ever gone before. I'm pretty sure the topic was something completely different before the Static Bag debate.

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#16
April 25, 2014 at 20:31:48
Yeah sometimes these threads take off in different directions.

Note I did some editing. I changed 'no resistance' to 'infinite resistance'. Infinite resistance would be no conductivity--no reading on the ohmmeter.

I expected lower resistances and I'm sure the meter was somewhat at fault. I'm not sure if the reading on various ranges required a X10 adjustment for each higher one. The meter range went up to 2 Meg ohms.

The silver colored bags I think are the newer type. I did take a razor blade to it to scrape the top layer off but that didn't change the results. I also punched holes in it with the meter leads to see if an internal layer might be more conductive but that caused no change either.

Even though the silver colored bag showed infinite resistance I still don't think it's a good idea to power up anything on it, especially when a plywood board is available.


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