Magittronic AKA Honey Bee

May 26, 2010 at 20:32:04
Specs: DOS 6.2
Hi! I have come across this computer - a PC Clone, looks like - the case is labeled Honey Bee; the mainboard and the video card say Magitronic. ANY info would help; the only label I can find on the mainboard is Magitronic 603. Thanks!

See More: Magittronic AKA Honey Bee

Report •


#1
May 26, 2010 at 21:14:10
'Honey Bee' probably means nothing and is just a sticker someone put on the case.

Magitronic made a bunch of stuff. It'd help if you at least knew what kind of cpu it had in it. You can look through their hardware here:

http://www.artofhacking.com/th99/z/...

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#2
May 27, 2010 at 10:27:48
I'm not sure; it dates from before the VLSI chips; I see three LSI chips, but the numbers are... 1 looks like 8601xp; another says 8602xp. These are NEC chips, and have other numbers I have to hold in just the right light to see... One of the ISA slots is labeled "8MHz Turbo Card"

Report •

#3
May 27, 2010 at 10:48:52
Seems like I remember a Magnatronic 386 board...didn't know they marketed pentium and pentium pro boards though.

"8MHz Turbo Card"? Wonder if that slot was for one of the cards with a 80386 processor onboard; I think they were meant to upgrade a 286.

Skip


Report •

Related Solutions

#4
May 27, 2010 at 11:41:37
The main cpu is the only chip that's going to help in isolating the motherboard.. Yoiu're looking for a grayish--purple ceramic chip that'll probably say 80386, 80486 or just 386 or 486. If it's a 286 it may or may not be ceramic. Some were DIP socketed. Or if it has a upgrade card, as Skip suggests, it may look different.

But it's probably on the th99 site.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#5
Report •

#6
May 27, 2010 at 12:38:45
From other things I see on and attached, it wouldn't surprise me to find a Z-80 chip... the RAM is 640k, located at the front-left corner of the board - as far from the power connector as possible. The keyboard connector is the older AT, I believe. If I find ANYTHING with a date... AHA! There's a sticker with 7 / 86 on it; apparently a QC sticker. there's also an EEPROM with a foil sticker covering the window with 1986 and "0927" in larger, bold type. The video card is CGA, apparently - DB-9 out. There's also a "Multi-I/O" card that's dated 1986. Which seems to mean that this baby may predate the 286, even. As I said above, there are only LSI chips and smaller; all DIP packages; no VLSI squares at all. I'm about ready to just boot the darn thing and use the O'scope to find the video out. Display may be an issue... I'm almost tempted to go dig out my ancient Wang - possibly the same vintage - and see if IT has any clues... I got this thing because I need one with standard ISA slots for a project; it has a computer interface which is on an ISA card.

Report •

#7
May 27, 2010 at 17:40:18
Not likely to be a Z-80. It's probably an 8088 but none showed on the th99 site.

Click on the first link in my # 5 above. That's the 286. Look at the ISA slots in the motheboard diagram. There's 2 shorts ones and 5 long ones. An 8088 motherboard will only have short slots--no long ones. So if yours is that way then that's what you have.

Also the cpu will be a DIP type and should say 8088 on it. There may be a socket next to it that's the same size. That's for an 8087 coprocessor.

Depending on what project you need it for and what OS it will need, you may be better getting something newer. Dos is the only thing that will run on an 8088. Pentiums up to probably a P-III had ISA slots (as well as PCI).

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#8
May 27, 2010 at 18:01:05
Yep, only SHORT ISA slots. I can't make out the numbers on the chip, but there IS an empty socket next to it as you describe.

And a DOS box is EXACTLY what I need this for, so that's good.

While no definitive answers here, you guys have been a big help with clues, at least! I now know that I seem to have a genuine 8086 machine, which is exactly what I was hoping to find... just not on a mystery motherboard. Now, if the video connector pinout is standard (I found the standard pinout for the DB-9 on another site), and I can wire up a 9-pin to 15-pin adapter...


Report •

#9
May 27, 2010 at 18:01:47
I googled magitronic 8088 and yeah, they made some 8088 motherboards. Here's a discussion of one with a pic:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...

(you can tell from the short 8-bit ISA slots) complete with a seagate MFM hard drive the fellow doesn't know what to do with.

That's another problem with the 8088's--you're pretty much limited to MFM and RLL drives. And finding an 8-bit VGA card is going to be hard, although some 16-bit ones will work but you have to leave the back part of the card unconnected.

But I don't know complete the system is. If it's working with monitor and keyboard (oh yeah, even the keyboards are different. Only ones made for 8088's will work) then maybe you're OK.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#10
May 27, 2010 at 18:05:47
If it's a 9-pin video port then it's either a monochrome, CGA or EGA. Assuming you have a monitor that'll fit you need to examine the card to see which one it's for (unless the monitor came with the computer) because they're not interchangeable.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#11
May 27, 2010 at 18:09:01
A video adapter, as you mention, might work. I've never tried one. But you'll need to make sure what it adapts from--monchrome, CGA or EGA.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#12
May 27, 2010 at 18:27:05
The keyboard connector appears to be a standard XT DIN plug; and no, all I got was the main case, one FDD, and one HD; the FDD card has a standard 2-drive cable; and floppies are what I need (I have a couple more 5 1/4" drives. I'll probably leave the HD out completely. This should run OK? The DOS I have is 6.2; although somewhere I have I think it's 3.2, and another disk I vaguely recall with 2.something on it... OH! One other thing - the power supply only has connectors for full-size drives, not the mini power connector for the 3.5" FDDs.

Thanks again, everyone!


Report •

#13
May 27, 2010 at 18:35:35
OK; went and looked at the picture and the discussion on the forum linked above; looks a LOT like what I have, so that's what I'm going with. I thought I had somewhere an ISA VGA card, but all I can find are several sound cards and a couple of modems.... I may have to hit eBay to find an ISA VGA card... and then the DOS driver for it...

Report •

#14
May 27, 2010 at 19:05:39
Only 360 K 5.25" and 720 K 3.5" drives work natively with an 8088. 1.2 meg 5.25" and 1.44 meg 3.5" won't unless you use a special floppy card. If you're luck maybe you have one. It should be obvious. They have their own bios chip and usually jumpers to designate the connected drive types.

The keyboard connector is the same for 8088's and up but the connections are different or it's about the signal timing, I'm not sure which. Many keyboards of that era had a DIP switch on the bottom so it could be used with either type of motherboard. Otherwise, a regular keyboard made for 286's and up won't work on an 8088.

It'll be fairly easy to find an 8-bit modem and probably a sound card. An 8-bit VGA card will be harder, although as I mentioned above, some 16-bit ones will work in the 8-bit ISA slot.

Any dos VGA drivers usually didn't come with the card.. A software maker would include anything necessary for their stuff to work with a VGA card if something more than regular dos video was necessary.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#15
May 27, 2010 at 20:10:32
Well, lessee.. the FDD card has jumpers galore; recall it's a "multi - I/O" card. For one, it has a WHOPPING big button cell battery, about the size of a quarter, and about twice as thick. Three crystals; one labeled "16.000" ?MHz?; one labeled 1.8432, and one I can't see anything on, but it's REALLY tiny. "U-30" is the only socketed IC on the board; a 16-pin DIP with a stick-on label that says "PII 117-1" There's also a couple of empty sockets elsewhere on the board... U-22 and U-24. Apparently, the card also provides the two serial COM ports and the LPT port. the silkscreening includes a logo - looks like a "dti" dik? (I can't locate my magnifying glass...) inside a stylized monitor, (c) 1986-40 PII-117. Is there a way to post /attach a picture? If so, I can take a couple if it'd help.

Report •

#16
May 27, 2010 at 20:43:50
It's a DTK. I guess this is it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DTK-PII-117-Mul...

It's not going to be able to handle 1.2 and 1.44 drives.

The battery indicates it has a clock function. (8088's didn't come with clocks so many card manufacturers started making them.)

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#17
May 27, 2010 at 21:11:04
Yep; that's the baby! [sigh] Well, I suppose I can copy the programs onto 360k disks... Would the card from a 5150 work? several of those on eBay right now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...

Original IBM PC 5150 FLOPPY CONTROLLER CARD 1501669 XM.


Report •

#18
May 27, 2010 at 22:07:56
You may as well use the DTK card as a floppy controller, since there's no need to get another one unless it provides support for high density drives. I didn't see any high density 8-bit cards on ebay for less than about $50.

Are you sure this is the direction you want to go? I think it's going to cost you more to set up that antique than to just buy a P-I or P-II at goodwill or a garage sale. It's a good project to get into if you wanted to restore an old PC but as a working computer the cost makes it impractical.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#19
May 27, 2010 at 22:16:43
Well, actually, it seems to be exactly what the project calls for - an 8086 machine with full maxed out memory. Using my O'scope, I've confirmed that the pinout is standard CGA, and since all three channels are present, presumably in color. Oh, and double checking the control program / computer requirements, 360k IS the correct size drive! So even THAT part is OK; now, all I need is to fabricate or locate that DB-9 to DB-15C adapter.

Thanks again to everyone for all the hints and help locating this stuff! A manual or whatever for the mb and / or the DTK card would be nice, but not having them won't be fatal to the project as long as the system boots and runs. The XT keyboard seems to work, as well... can't tell for sure until I get video, but with no boot disk, every keystroke gets an angry beep from the system... [grin]

And again - MANY THANKS TO ALL!


Report •

#20
May 28, 2010 at 20:37:10
<sigh> Well, the bad news is that the video card itself seems to have an issue... After getting the GOOD probes out to verify that I had the correct wires on the correct pins, I noticed that the video output was nowhere near what it should be - while the sync signals are, in fact, at about 4V peak-to-peak, the RGB lines are only about 0.4V p-p, so there's something amiss. There's also a lot of hum, even when I go directly to the back side of the connector. The power supply is clean, though, so it's likely the components on the card causing the problem. - most likely dried caps. Probably not worth repairing - if that were even possible. Oh, well... back to the drawing board... or the eBay search engine...

Report •

#21
May 28, 2010 at 23:31:38
Yeah the card may be bad or you might have a monochrome (MDA) adapter. Pins 3, 4 and 5 are the RGB lines. They aren't used in a monochrome.and the small voltage you're picking up might just be noise and not a signal.

Post back more info on the video card--chips, maybe any other model numbers (besides magitronic) including a description of any ram chips.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#22
May 29, 2010 at 08:11:21
Yeah the card may be bad or you might have a monochrome (MDA) adapter. Pins 3, 4 and 5 are the RGB lines. They aren't used in a monochrome.and the small voltage you're picking up might just be noise and not a signal.

Post back more info on the video card--chips, maybe any other model numbers (besides magitronic) including a description of any ram chips.

The largest chip is right in the middle of the board - a Signetics 6845E (40-pin DIP); just above it is a 2732 EPROM and a pair of 6507s are to the right of the EPROM (towards the connector). I checked the other pins - it looks like I may have video on pin 7. Would that be right for mono?

As to other numbers - "Made In Taiwan", and there's a "26-02A" in the lower-left corner (the end away from the connector). The other chips are all 74LSxxx chips.


Report •

#23
May 29, 2010 at 10:44:24
Here's what I have on the pin-out for the 9-pin video cards (from Pocket PCRef):

MDA
1 & 2. . . . . . .Ground
3,4,5. . . . . . .Not Used
6 . . . . . . . . .+ Intensity
7 . . . . . . . . .+ Video
8 . . . . . . . . .+ Horizontal Drive
9 . . . . . . . . .- Vertical Drive

CGA
1 & 2. . . . . . Ground
3 . . . . . . . . .Red
4 . . . . . . . . .Green
5 . . . . . . . . .Blue
6 . . . . . . . . .+ Intensity
7 . . . . . . . . .Reserved
8 . . . . . . . . .+ Horizontal Drive
9 . . . . . . . . .- Vertical Drive

EGA
1 . . . . . . . . .Ground
2 . . . . . . . . .Secondary Red
3 . . . . . . . . .Red
4 . . . . . . . . .Green
5 . . . . . . . . .Blue
6 . . . . . . . . .Secondary Green / Intensity
7 . . . . . . . . .Secondary Blue / Monochrome
8 . . . . . . . . .Horizontal Drive
9 . . . . . . . . .Vertical Drive

I assume they're numbering them the same as you are.

The MDA cards weren't really graphic cards--just text--so I don't think they had any ram chips on them. I don't think you listed any ram chips in your post above but I'll see what I can find.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#24
May 29, 2010 at 11:20:19
Most CGA monitor cables had one pin missing. Looking at the pin-out above it must have been pin 7 since that's the only one not being used. So if you have a CGA card, any voltage at pin 7 can't be a signal.

A lot of the MDA cards had a printer port also. Is yours that way?

Also, there were some switchable CGA/MDA cards. Of course they needed some ram for the CGA.

Almost all EGA cards had a 4 position DIP switch usually on the metal bracket of the card so it could be altered without opening the case.

I couldn't find anything that pointed to a specific video card using the chips you listed.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#25
May 29, 2010 at 11:31:16
I'm going to try the signal on pin 7; it LOOKS like a text display (semi-retired broadcaster; I've seen text on the waveform monitor, and that's what this looks like); the app doesn't care, although it looks nicer in color. There are some ISA CGA adapters on eBay for about 20 bucks; some even have the 15-pin connector, or so it would seem... It'd be nice if my O'scope had a Z-axis input... Oh, well...

Oh, BTW - the LPT port and the two COM ports are on the FDD card. This thing has now gotten under my skin! It WILL work, or I'll get a bigger hammer...!


Report •

#26
May 29, 2010 at 13:02:02
There's a odd-ball 15-pin connector that IBM had for awhile. I think they called it a PGA. You don't want to get one of those cards unless you have a PGA monitor. Otherwise make sure it's VGA.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#27
May 29, 2010 at 20:02:51
Now, I'm frustrated.

In the excitement, I decided to pull the floppy itself and see if it actually works. In the process, I discovered that NT versions of Windows do NOT recognize a 360 kb disk, regardless of drive. Sheesh! I now have to dig out my spare HD that has Win98 on it.... mutter mumble... I'd use one of the newer machines, but they're all too fast; I've got one running - sort of - by adding a program called "SLOWDOWN" to the system...


Report •

#28
May 29, 2010 at 21:42:09
Even a 286 would be a lot easier to set up. You'd be able to use 16-bit ISA cards, an IDE hard drive, regular keyboard and high density floppy drives.

286's were the first to have cmos to configure the basic hardware. The only problem may be that many used setup disks to configure the cmos instead of the 'press DEL to enter setup'. Those disks were usually proprietary and are often difficult to find now.

Even 98 may have problems seeing a 360 K drive. There's an update for that I linked to in this thread:

http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#29
May 29, 2010 at 21:55:36
I'm not sure; it dates from before the VLSI chips; I see three LSI chips, but the numbers are... 1 looks like 8601xp; another says 8602xp. These are NEC chips, and have other numbers I have to hold in just the right light to see... One of the ISA slots is labeled "8MHz Turbo Card"


[url=http://www.carpartswarehouse.com/carmodels/CP20/Mercedes_Benz/ML550.html]Mercedes Benz 300TE Parts[/url]



Report •

#30
May 29, 2010 at 23:54:25
Hey Shad ali / enu420, it looks like you're only posting to provide a link to some car site, because you're certainly not helping out. Maybe you should stick to talking about your shoes:

http://www.v7n.com/forums/forum-lob...

and not bother the adults.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#31
May 30, 2010 at 10:43:30
I have a setup disk that's for 98SE, plus the Security Update CD that they issued in 04; The problem being the software I'm trying to get to run correctly was written for the PC/XT/AT; the later processors are too FAST for it.. What I'd LIKE to do is get the source code, change the timing loops,, etc., and recompile so it will run on a Pentium - perhaps even run under the virtual machine in NT... it has a dedicated hardware interface, though, that pretty much needs the direct access. And I think some of the off-topic posts are SPAM, homing in on keywords like "honey bee" and "turbo"...

Report •

#32
May 30, 2010 at 12:36:02
Every now and then someone will post in or start a thread with a badly written 'personal experience' about some wonderful product or service they've allegedly had dealings with. And although they're all for different things, they all sound like they were written by the same person and googling relevent phrases reveals the same postings on other sites. Those kind usually get removed pretty quick here but this fellow isn't as obvious.

It's different if it's someone we know and has posted here before and has honestly found some nifty product or service.

Anyway, I guess there's an option in XP to slow down applications::

http://www.dosgames.com/xphints.php#7

(98 doesn't seem to have that.) There's a link there for MOSLO which I suppose works like SLOWDOWN. There's also a download there for DOSBOX but I'm not sure if using that within XP would solve any of the timing problems.

You're not really green until you're soylent green.


Report •

#33
May 30, 2010 at 14:08:27
Doubtful - the real sticker seems to be that direct hardware interface - which NO version of NT seems to allow access to... DOS 6.2 (Win98) was the last version, apparently, that allowed direct access - I do know a developer that used direct access of teh LPT for some functions - and that whole section had to be redone to get past Win2K / XP blocking hardware access. Oh, well.. Still plugging along...

Report •


Ask Question