Knocking Sound Near the heat sink + Issues

September 4, 2011 at 06:41:48
Specs: Windows 7, Core 2 Duo 2.93 ghz/2Gb DDR2 800 Mhz
Hi. I'm observing a knocking sound near the cpu heat sink. For the past several weeks, i'm observing a certain malfunction in the computer as well.
Description of the major issues :

-Computer goes automatically to Q-Flash Bios Utility without general boot-up
- If turned on to Windows , it automatically enters the password which is ' +++++++++++++++'. In case i'm somehow able to lo gin , the problem even persists in Google in the search box.
- The problem has worsened now when i observe the icons being completely misplaced in windows and the PC abruptly restarting. Misplaced Icons do not show any letters, and only images.
- I recently changed my DD R 800 MHz RAM. My motherboard however supports only upto 667 MHz.
- The computer till yesterday was fine and now refuses to start. The power supply is On and the CPU isn't running. I have a spare P4 which i inserted to Rule-Out the CPU-Fail Possibility.

HELP GUYS !!


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#1
September 4, 2011 at 20:09:06
Tell us the make and model of your brand name system, or if you have a generic desktop system, the make and model of the mboard.

The model of a brand name system is usually on a label on the outside of the case,

or if it's a Dell system, go here to find your Service tag number, tell us what it is:
http://support.dell.com/support/top...

The model of a mboard in a a generic desktop system is usually printed in obvious larger characters on the surface of the mboard, often between the slots, or near the center of the mboard.

Some computers show a screen with the model number on it while booting the computer.
.......

I can't tell for sure from the info in your first post whether you have a laptop or a desktop computer.
"PC" could be either.

If it's a desktop, the knocking sound is probably one of
- the cpu fan's bearings are failing - that can cause a rattling noise when the bearing wear is severe. They're most likely to make that noise when the computer has sat and has cooled to room temp for many hours, when you first start up the computer after that.
- something inside the case is occaisionally hitting the cpu fan blade

- the noise may actually be coming from the hard drive. Try disconnecting it's power, then booting to see if the noise is still there.
....

"Computer goes automatically to Q-Flash Bios Utility without general boot-up"

"PC abruptly restarting."

Open up your case and examine the mboard to see if you have bad capacitors, and/or other findable signs of mboard damage .

What to look for, mboard symptoms, example pictures:
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5
Home page that site
- what the problem is caused by
- he says there are STILL bad capacitors on more recent mboards.
http://www.badcaps.net/

Pictures of blown capacitors, other components, power supplies, Athlon cpu's, etc.:
http://www.halfdone.com/Personal/Jo...
.....

"PC abruptly restarting."

desktop or laptop computer....

Windows is set by default to automatically Restart when it encounters a fatal error - an error it can't recover from.

Press F8 repeatedly while booting, don't hold down the key, and when the Windows loading choices menu appears, choose
Disable automatic restart.......

When you see a blue screen with a message on it
- quote the STOP: 0Xx0000xx error (we don't need the stuff in brackets beside it)
- if there is a problem file named, tell us what it is.
- if the text mentions it made a mini dump file, that can be analyzed..
......

On some computers, they have a different use for the F8 key while booting, e.g you'll see a menu of devices to boot the computer from.
If you see that, read the text on the screen, press the key that exits that menu, then immediately press F8 repeatedly to get the Windows loading choices menu.
.....

If the capacitors on the mboard look okay....
It sounds like either you're experiencing small amounts of ram errors, and/or the data on your hard drive is corrupted on the partition Windows was installed on , and/or the hard drive is failing and that's what's causing the data corruption.


". I recently changed my DD R 800 MHz RAM. My motherboard however supports only upto 667 MHz."

desktop or laptop computer....

Have you had problems only AFTER you changed the ram ?
If yes, install the ram you had in it before to see if your problems go away !

There are several things that determine whether ram will work properly in - be compatible with - your mboard. Ram that is rated faster than your mboard supports is backwards compatible as far as the speed of the ram is concerned - it will run at up to and including the max speed the mboard supports -but other things must be compatible with your mboard.

Ram that works in another mboard , or any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work properly, or sometimes, not at all - even if it physically fits and is the right overall type (e.g. SDram, DDR, DDR2, etc.; PCxxxx, xxx mhz) for your mboard. In the worst cases of incompatibilty your mboard WILL NOT BOOT all the way with it installed, and the mboard may not even beep - the ram has to be compatible with the mboard's main chipset, or in the case of recent mboards, compatible with the memory controller built into the cpu.

If you still have the ram that was installed when the system worked fine, try installing just that ram.


See response 5 in this for some info about ram compatibilty, and some places where you can find out what will work in your mboard for sure:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...
Correction to that:
Mushkin www.mushkin.com
.......

The problem with using ram that is rated faster than your mboard supports is most places where you can look up which ram modules will work in your mboard for sure DO NOT list ram that is rated faster than your mboard supports.When faster modules are not listed, you can't be sure they will work properly in the mboard.

The only exception I know of is the Crucial web site sometimes lists ram that is rated faster than your mboard supports if they know it's otherwise compatible with your mboard.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

Then run a memory diagnostics set of tests.

If you do a ram test, do that AFTER having tried cleaning the contacts and making sure the ram is seated properly - otherwise any errors found may be FALSE.
If the ram is incompatible with the chipset, or on more recent computers, incompatible with the memory controller built into the cpu, it will likely FAIL a ram test - that is NOT a true indication of the ram being faulty - there is probably nothing wrong with it, and it will pass the test if installed in a mboard it is compatible with.

If a ram test DOES find errors, if you have more than one module installed, try the test with one module at a time - sometimes they won't work properly when more than one is installed, but it will pass when by itself.


If you want to try a memory diagnostic utility that takes a lot less time to run a full pass than memtest86 does, this one is pretty good - Microsoft's
Windows Memory Diagnostic:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag...
It can be toggled (press T) to do a standard or a more comprehensive set of tests - use the default 6 test one first - if it passes one pass of that, use the latter one. A few of the tests in the latter set are intentionally slower.
If you don't have a floppy drive, see the Quick Start Information at that Microsoft link for how to make a bootable CD of the Windows Memory Diagnostic (you need Windiag.iso - you don't necessarily need to use the program they mention to add it to the CD).
...........

If the ram passes....

Test your hard drive with hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics.

E.g.
Seagate's SeaTools will test (almost) any brand of hard drive.
http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...

Do the long test.

The Dos bootable versions of SeaTools can test the hard drive when Windows will not load properly, or even when the drive has no data on it.

It the drive itself passes the test, any data problems on the drive can be fixed one way or another.
..........

"The computer till yesterday was fine and now refuses to start. The power supply is On and the CPU isn't running."

If this is a desktop computer, if the capacitors on the mboard look okay, try a different power supply from a working system with your system.

Failing power supplies are common, especially if it's an emachines computer. .


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#2
September 15, 2011 at 21:53:43
@ Tubesand Wires ! :-). Sorry for replying so late.

My Motherboard make is Gigabyte GA- 945 GCM-S2L.
Power Supply is VIP 400 Watts,
ATI Rad eon HD 4650 1 GB ddr3
Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93 GHz., 3mb L2 cache memory.

I installed a Spare P4. Neither the hard drive is running, nor the CPU (Without the heat sink).
Forgive me for my ignorance, but whats the function of a capacitor?. I'm contemplating a new motherboard and a new Power supply unit. Can my motherboard be repaired ?


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#3
September 16, 2011 at 06:09:47
"I installed a Spare P4. Neither the hard drive is running, nor the CPU (Without the heat sink)."
A CPU without a heat sink will not boot long enough for system to boot, without a PROPERLY installed heat sink the CPU will build heat in a second or two and shut down. You should not have removed the heat sink, NOW you will have to remove all of the old thermal compound and properly install new compound:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_a...
find your CPU and follow instructions.
If the capacitors show damage (bulging, burned spots, heat discoloration, etc) then replace the board.
Please follow logical testing and avoid jumping around or ignoring part of diagnosing because you don't want to do it or do not understand it. Address each thing that was suggested and post detailed results and/or observations and include all details and anything unusual looking or sounding.

You have to be a little bit crazy to keep you from going insane.


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#4
September 17, 2011 at 08:12:22
You haven't provided any useful info other than the mboard model and the power supply capacity in response to what I wrote in response 1.

The knocking sound your hear - have you determined where it was coming from ?

"-Computer goes automatically to Q-Flash Bios Utility without general boot-up
- If turned on to Windows ,, it automatically enters the password which is ' +++++++++++++++'"

Is that your normal password ?
Windows doesn't normally enter any user password automatically.

"I recently changed my DD R 800 MHz RAM. My motherboard however supports only upto 667 MHz."

If you DID NOT have problems BEFORE you changed the ram.....

The first thing you should have tried is re-seating that new ram.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If that doesn't help.............
Ram that works in another mboard , or any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work properly, or sometimes, not at all - even if it physically fits and is the right overall type (e.g. SDram, DDR, DDR2, etc.; PCxxxx, xxx mhz) for your mboard. In the worst cases of incompatibilty your mboard WILL NOT BOOT all the way with it installed, and the mboard may not even beep - the ram has to be compatible with the mboard's main chipset, or in the case of recent mboards, compatible with the memory controller built into the cpu.

If you still have the ram that was installed when the system worked fine, try installing just that ram.
.....

"Power Supply is VIP 400 Watts"

Appears to be a good brand of PS.,

"ATI Rad eon HD 4650 1 GB ddr3"

ATI Radeon™ HD 4600 Series System Requirements
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...

"400 Watt or greater power supply (550 Watt for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode) is recommended "

(dual mode = two HD 4600 series video chipsets)

Your power supply has the minimum rec. capacity to handle the current (amperage) requirements of the HD 4650 card being installed on the system.
That's usually about 50 watts higher than the absolute minimum, to take into account so-so quality power supply specs.

However, even a better quality power supply like yours that has at least the minimum capacity your HD 4650 needs can malfunction or fail completely.

Failing power supplies are common and can cause your symptoms.
Check your PS.
They often partially work, fans and hard drives may spin, leds may come on, yet you may get no video and the mboard will not boot all the way.
See response 4 in this:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

The ONLY sure way of ruling out your power supply as causing problems is to try a known good power supply from a working system with your mboard.

If it is failing, you can usually replace it with any decent standard sized standard ATX PS with the same capacity or greater.

Standard (PS/2) power supply size - 86mm high, 150mm wide, 140mm deep, or 3 3/8" h x 5 7/8" w x 5 1/2" d , or very close to that, though the depth can be more or less for some PSs.

Don't buy an el-cheapo PS.
See response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...
........

"My Motherboard make is Gigabyte GA- 945 GCM-S2L."

GA-945GCM-S2L (rev. 1.0) (home support page)
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pr...

"Solid Capacitor for CPU VRM
Stable system operation depends upon the quality of CPU VRM (voltage regulator module). GIGABYTE adopts Conductive Polymer Aluminum Solid Capacitors for CPU VRM to ensure a longer lifespan for systems in daily operation and boost system stability under extreme conditions. CPU VRM with Solid Capacitors featuring better electronic conductivity, excellent heat resistance enhances system durability even operating in high temperature environment."

Solid capacitors a.k.a polymer capacitors don't fail as time goes by like conventional electrolytic capacitors can,
The manual for your model doesn't state whether all the capacitors that would normally be conventional electrolytic capacitors are solid capacitors, but if they are your mboard can't have the failing electolytic capacitor problem that I pointed to iinfo about n response 1 .


CPUs for
Gigabyte GA-945GCM-S2L
http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Gigab...

"Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93 GHz"

E7500 is listed
Mboard Bios version must be F8B or higher.

If the E7500 worked fine at it's full speed previously, the mboard's bios version is at least F8B.

"I installed a Spare P4. Neither the hard drive is running, nor the CPU "

Was the hard drive and original CPU running BEFORE you changed the CPU ?

WHY did you install a spare CPU ?

One of the LEAST likely things is there was something wrong with your CPU !

Whatever CPU you installed MUST be on the above list of CPUs !

The cpus with pink behind their listing will NOT work with this mboard.
If the cpu you installed is not on that list, it WILL NOT work with this mboard !
......

"Forgive me for my ignorance, but whats the function of a capacitor?."

Capacitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

Electrolytic capacitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...

Polymer capacitor (a.k.a. Solid capacitor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyme...

"I'm contemplating a new motherboard and a new Power supply unit."

One of the LEAST likely things is there was something wrong with your mboard, unless you have done something yourself that damaged it, or unless an external event such as an AC power failure event, or the power supply damaged it while malfunctiong.

" Can my motherboard be repaired ?"

You haven't told us anything that indicates for sure that there's anything wrong with it !

Depending on what's wrong with it, sometimes it can be repaired, but it's usually much cheaper to replace the mboard with a good used one or a new one that can use the same CPU, and preferably, the same ram.

Fingers said.........

"Please follow logical testing and avoid jumping around or ignoring part of diagnosing because you don't want to do it or do not understand it. Address each thing that was suggested and post detailed results and/or observations and include all details and anything unusual looking or sounding."

I completely agree with that !

Your trying another CPU was NOT logical !

The cpu heat sink MUST be installed on the CPU, otherwise the CPU can burn out in less than 5 minutes after the computer is booted, whether the mboard boots normally or not !

All modern mboard bioses will shut off the mboard within a very short time (as little as ~ 5 seconds) after booting if no rpm is dtected from the CPU fan header, to protect the CPU from burning out.
There MUST be a 3 or 4 wire fan connected to the CPU fan header !


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