Clock failure

November 12, 2011 at 10:18:12
Specs: Windows 3.11 , 100 Mhz / 8 MB RAM
Hi. When I start the computer it dont remember the time. But it remember the BIOS settings.
The battery seems ok. What can I do? Just change the battery? It is a MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

See More: Clock failure

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#1
November 12, 2011 at 11:08:20
Hi Akdos,

having dos and W3.11 suggests it is an old computer.

When the date/time start to fail, it suggests the battery is losing power and requires replacing.

Before removing the battery, make a note of any settings in the bios that might be important, e.g. floppy drive(s) type, and hard disc parameters (cylinders, heads, sectors etc.) as they may need to be re-input if the bios resets to its default settings on battery removal.

You may not be able to boot from the hard disk until the settings have been input.

Good Luck - Keep us posted.


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#2
November 12, 2011 at 14:33:52
What you see in the bios is all default settings unless you have changed settiings yourself, except for the date and time, which sholud be current unless the bios (cmos)battery is too weak or dead, or the battery is installed backwards.
If it's a desktop computer, if it has a button cell battery, the + should be showing on the side of the battery you can see when it's installed. If that's correct, replace the battery.

Some of the default settings are determined automatically by the bios every time you boot the computer according to which cpu you have installed, which drives you have installed, and how much ram is installed.

The bios has two parts - read only memory and Cmos memory - the battery is required for the Cmos memory to retain the date and time and any custom settings you make yourself.


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#3
November 13, 2011 at 01:31:41
The battery fits correct. Its not the default settings. If i should power the computer on and then shut it down fast it reset the BIOS. The BIOS settings is correct but the clock dosent seems right. I know the type of harddrive and cylinders, heads, sectors...

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Related Solutions

#4
November 13, 2011 at 01:32:24
The computer has power all the time. I never unplug the computers power

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#5
November 13, 2011 at 04:59:38
Hi Akdos,

I am not sure about W3.11, but is it possible it sets the date/time according to the region it is set to.

If so, if the region is set incorrectly, the date/time will be incorrect for the 'actual' region.

Good Luck - Keep us posted.


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#6
November 13, 2011 at 06:22:28
You're not "getting" it.
If your particular situation doesn't require non-default bios settings to be set by you, if the cmos battery is too weak or dead or if it's not being detected for some other reason, the computer will work fine but the bios will not retain the current date and time !

You are probably ALSO getting a message while booting when the current date and time cannot be retained - "Cmos Checksum Error" or similar .

Some 386 and most if not all 486 mboard bioses and all pentium and up mboard bioses have a default Auto setting regarding detecting hard drives and optical drives - the drives are usually detected properly by default without you needing to specify a hard drive type or specify parameters for the hard drive.


For mboards made since about 1997....

If the bios is not retaining the current date and time, the ONLY things that can be caused by is
- the battery is too weak or dead

- if it's a removable button battery, rather than a battery or battery pack connected by wires / a connector
- the battery is backwards in it's socket

- the battery IS okay and the + is showing so that you can see it when it's installed but it's not getting a good connection in it's socket because
- there is corrosion in the socket - scrape off the corrosion

- the contact that is supposed to touch the top of the battery is bent away from it touching the battery. Remove the battery, bend the top contact down, install the battery.

Button batteries do not last forever - e.g. a CR2032 lasts about 5 years, a CR2016 less.

If you DO have a button cell, replace it ! They're cheap !
Even some "dollar" stores have them for a buck or less.
......

For mboards made BEFORE about 1997, some of them have a RTC module - a black removable module about 3/8" thick, 3/4" wide, 1 1/4" long . It has a tiny battery inside of it that lasts 5 - 10 years. In that case when the battery is too weak or dead, you must replace the module if you want it to be able to retain the current data and time and custom set bios settings.
That RTC module often has a symbol on it that looks like an old fashioned alarm clock, and it always has an obvious model number printed on it. It''s often the DALLAS brand, but there are several possible brands. .


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#7
November 13, 2011 at 09:49:33
No. It is a 40 GB harddrive and it cannot be detected automatic. I need to set the drive to 2113 MB. If I try auto detect it stop working and I need to reboot the computer. On a new computer you dont need a battery as long you have the computer connected to the power. If the power disappers you get a error message. I can upload a video to show you what I mean or I can mail it to you.

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#8
November 13, 2011 at 10:24:25
Even when the battery IS too weak or dead or is not being recognized properly for whatever reason, the bios will retain the custom settings you make in it until the AC power to the computer has been removed, or at least until after Windows or Dos has been shut down.
All AT family computers switch off the AC power to the AT power supply when you switch off the case's power button.
All ATX family computers still have power to some places on the mboard when the system has been shut off via the case's power button, if the ATX power supply is still receiving live AC power.

If you have to set the hard drive to a non-default setting when the time and date are set to bios defaults, replace the cmos battery ! !
.............

Of ALL the mboards I've fiddled with that had the ability to set the date and time in the bios, XT and up, maybe a hundred mboards, there was ONLY ONE that could not retain the date and time and yet could retain other custom settings AT ALL TIMES when there was nothing wrong with the bios detecting the cmos battery properly. It was a Hsing Tech early Pentium mboard, sold retail as the PCChips model M500. That happened only after the mboard had been used about 5 years or more

If that's your situation, if your mboard DOES NOT have a RTC module (see response 6), your mboard is defective and there's absolutely nothing you can do about that !

If your mboard DOES have the RTC module, you need to replace it (it must be ordered off the web and is not easy to find), or carefully open it up from the top of it and and connect a non-rechargable battery of the same voltage (3.0 ?) to the leads for the tiny dead battery inside of it.
............

For older bios versions....

- they can have known bugs that make the bios version incapable of detecting a hard drive larger than ~ 2.1 gb (~2,150 mb) properly, as seen in the bios, which usually sees the drive's binary size, not the hard drive manufacturer's (decimal) size.

- or the bios version may be incapable of doing that because of limitations of the main chipset on the mboard.

For the former, in some cases someone other than the mboard manufacturer has made a custom bios update that allows all hard drives up to and including 137 gb hard drive manufacturer's size to been seen as their full size (137 gb hard drive manufacturer's size = ~128 gb in most bioses and ALL operating systems).

Tell us the make and model of your brand name system, or if you have a generic desktop system, the make and model of the mboard.

The specific model of a brand name system is often shown on a label on the outside of the case somewhere, or it can often be determined by going to the brand name's web site and loading a program they have available, if Windows is still working, on the subject computer.

If it's a Dell computer...
Go here for how to find the Service tag "number":
http://support.dell.com/support/top...

Tell us what it is.

If it's a HP or Compaq computer.....
Go here:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/search.aspx
Scroll down a bit.
Look for the similar label on the outside of your computer.
Quote the specific model number - that's at the end of the first line.
Quote the Product number - that's on the third line.

If it's a Lenovo computer
Find your specific Product number and tell us what it is:

Finding my product number
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/Fin...

The model, sometimes the make, of a mboard in a generic desktop system is usually printed on the mboard's surface in obvious larger characters, often between the slots.

Some mboards have no model number printed on them - those that were in a brand name system computer, and some retail models.

E.g.
Hsing Tech sold / sells their mboards wholesale to other vendors who sold it / sell it under their own model number. Hsing Tech mboards usually DO NOT have a model number printed on the mboard surface, but they have a unique bios string that identifies them as a Hsing Tech mboard. Many ECS models that have no model number printed on the mboard are actually Hsing Tech mboards.

If the mboard has no model number
- if it was in brand name system, we can usually find info about the mboard if you supply the proper brand name model it was in.

- if it was a retail model in a generic system,

If Windows is working (this may not work in Win 3.1 ).....

Go here, download BIOS AGENT.
Run BIOS AGENT to find your bios string.
- here's the link that downloads Bios Agent
http://download.esupport.com/biosag...

The current Bios Agent calls the bios string the Bios ID.
Tell us the Bios ID it finds, or everything Bios Agent finds, and include any dashes, etc.
...

Bios Agent must be used in Windows.

The following works even if you have no drives at all connected to your mboard but you are able to boot and get a display on your monitor.

If you cannot use Bios Agent, the bios string is usually a long string of numbers/letters at the bottom of the first black screen as you boot your computer - it often begins with a date - usually you can press the Pause key to read it and copy it down.
Press any key but Pause to continue booting.

It could also be higher up the screen under or beside the bios version line, e.g. under or beside Award or AMI or Phoenix...


Post that bios string here, and include any dashes, etc.
Please make sure you copied it right. Most Award and AMI Bios strings do not have spaces. Newer Phoenix bios strings, based most often on those for Intel mboards, are often like so: xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxx


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#9
November 14, 2011 at 01:30:04
Hi Akdos,

one simple question:-

Have you tried fitting a new battery - yes or no?


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#10
November 14, 2011 at 10:01:08
The computer is from 93 486 HUYNDAI

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#11
November 14, 2011 at 13:05:45
By the way....

(You can also have this problem simply because the capacitors are OLD, if the mboard is older than about 8 years old - if your date of 93 is correct yours is about 18 years old.)

Some mboards develop this problem - electrolytic capacitors were installed on them that were not properly made, and they fail eventually - the mboard manufacturer didn't know they were improperly made at the time the mboard was made.

Open up your case and examine the mboard to see if you have bad capacitors, and/or other findable signs of mboard damage .

What to look for, mboard symptoms, example pictures:
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5
Home page that site
- what the problem is caused by
- he says there are STILL bad capacitors on more recent mboards.
http://www.badcaps.net/

Pictures of blown capacitors, other components, power supplies, fried Athlon cpus, etc.:
http://www.halfdone.com/Personal/Jo...
..........

"486 HUYNDAI"

Sparse info.
Can you supply the bios string ?
See response 8.

Found only 3 possibilities so far.. ...

HYUNDAI ELECTRONICS, INC.

SUPER 486/33E (CORPORATE SERIES)

http://th99.dyndns.org/m/E-H/30604.htm

Location of button battery or battery 2 pin header or RTC module not identified.
................

HYUNDAI ELECTRONICS, INC.

SUPER 486/33I

http://th99.dyndns.org/m/E-H/30614.htm

Real Time Clock (RTC) module shown.

............

HYUNDAI ELECTRONICS, INC.

CORPORATE SERIES 386/486 (VER. E & LATER)

http://th99.dyndns.org/m/E-H/30696.htm

Real Time Clock (RTC) module shown.

Proper setting for Cmos jumper for normal operation specified (Open - the jumper not installed, or only on one of the two pins).
............

If your mboard has a RTC module, the battery inside it is too weak or dead.

From response 6:

"For mboards made BEFORE about 1997, some of them have a RTC module - a black removable module about 3/8" thick, 3/4" wide, 1 1/4" long . It has a tiny battery inside of it that lasts 5 - 10 years. In that case when the battery is too weak or dead, you must replace the module if you want it to be able to retain the current data and time and custom set bios settings .
That RTC module often has a symbol on it that looks like an old fashioned alarm clock, and it always has an obvious model number printed on it. It''s often the DALLAS brand, but there are several possible brands. "

From response 8:

"If your mboard DOES have the RTC module, you need to replace it (it must be ordered off the web and is not easy to find), or carefully open it up from the top of it and and connect a non-rechargeable battery of the same voltage (3.0 ?) to the leads for the tiny dead battery inside of it"
........

I have notes about some of the DALLAS RTC modules - I ordered two of one model - DS12887 - for a friend's mboard (a Gigabyte early 586 / Pentium model - GA-586AT - it was made in 1995) , never installed the second one, but it's now about 9 years old - it's internal battery probably doesn't have much life left even it works now.
The mboard I installed the other one in has been fried by a failing (AOpen) power supply (it had improperly made electrolytic capacitors inside it that had failed ). I have no other mboard that has a RTC module, so I can't test either one of them.

The last time I checked, maybe 2007 ?, DALLAS was (probably) the only remaining maker of RTC modules. The Gigabyte mboard did not have that brand but DALLAS had a compatible clone of it.
(ODIN OEC12C887; DALLAS DS12887)

The info about you being able to open up the RTC module and connect a non-rechargeable battery of the same voltage to where the dead battery is connected was something I found on the web long after I had bought the modules. The RTC module is a hollow plastic box. You can carefully cut into the top of it, and remove as much as the whole top of it.

Note that if you remove the RTC module, you should MAKE NOTE of which way it faces BEFORE you remove it ! If you install it or a replacement module backwards in it's socket will FRY instantly the next time the mboard is powered, if it's possible to do that (it WAS on the Gigabyte mboard). The pins on the bottom of the module are very skinny - be careful !


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#12
November 14, 2011 at 14:10:31
Mike Newcomb

You asked..

"Have you tried fitting a new battery - yes or no?"

If his mboard has a RTC module, as in response 11, it has no button battery or 2 pin header an external battery can be connected to.


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