Boot issue after attempted RAM upgrade

Gateway / Mfatxstl el2 500s
August 18, 2009 at 14:29:36
Specs: Windows XP home
Older Gateway desktop was running slow so I
tried a new 1GB memory stick along with
existing 256MB stick - wouldn't boot past
WinXP screen.
Took out all memory and just put back the old
- still wouldn't boot past WinXP screen. Just
powers off.
When I look in the BIOS it seems to be seeing
the memory correctly.
I've had trouble finding documentation for this
PC.
All memory (new and old) is DDR 266MHz
PC2100 2.5V.
The mother board says: E210882
Can anyone lend me a hand? Thanks in
advance!
The new memory is Kingston KTM3304/1G

See More: Boot issue after attempted RAM upgrade

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#1
August 18, 2009 at 16:14:00
ATX power supplies are always powering ATX mboards in some places, including some contacts in the ram slots and card slots, even when the computer is not running, as long as the PS is connected to the mboard, the PS is switched on, if it has a switch, and the PS is receiving AC power.
You MUST unplug the computer / the PS, or otherwise switch off the AC power to the computer, when you fiddle with any connection inside the case to the PS or to the mboard, or install or un-install ram and cards in slots, otherwise you easily can DAMAGE something, including the ram and the PS itself!

"Took out all memory and just put back the old
- still wouldn't boot past WinXP screen."

The ram you bought may not be compatible with your mboard, but the computer should still work with the original ram, if you haven't damaged it or the PS or the mboard.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If that doesn't help,

Unplug the case/power supply.
Power off your monitor.
Check all the connections of the wiring to make sure they are all the way onto their pins and into their sockets, especially the main connector from the power supply. The wires close to the mboard going into the main power connector/socket should be more or less perpendicular to the mboard surface rather than at an angle. Make sure all cards in slots are all the way down in their slots.

Try the computer again, with the original ram installed.

If that doesn't help, you may have fried the power supply.

Failing power supplies are common and can cause your symptoms.
Check your PS.
They often partially work, fans and hard drives may spin, leds may come on, yet you may get no video and the mboard will not boot all the way.
See response 4 in this:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If it is failing, you can usually replace it with any decent standard sized standard ATX PS with the same capacity or greater.

Standard (PS/2) power supply size - 86mm high, 150mm wide, 140mm deep, or 3 3/8" h x 5 7/8" w x 5 1/2" d , or very close to that, though the depth can be more or less for some PSs.

Don't buy an el-cheapo PS.
See response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...
.......

Search using:
Gateway / Mfatxstl el2 500s

Gateway MFATXSTL EL2 500S
Processor: 1.6 GHz Pentium 4
RAM: 256 Kb
Harddrive: 19 Gb
Operating System: Windows 2000 Professional

Model: Gateway MFATXSTL EL2 500S
Processor: 1.6 GHz Pentium 4
RAM: 256 Mb
Harddrive: 37 Gb
Operating System: Windows 2000 Professional

http://www.unityrockets.com/mc/it/j...
.....

Search using: e210882 motherboard

Many "hits"

E.g.

" have a e210882 motherboard in a emachine h2862 computer,..."
http://www.fixya.com/support/t22435...
...

" have an Emachines Model W2888 with motherboard E210882 ..."
http://www.fixya.com/support/t26429...

Manual
http://www.asi.com.au/support/Drive...

Intel D845DVSR

Two DDR SDram slots

Supports DDR333/266/200mhz modules
Supports up to 2gb of system memory with DIMMS utilizing 512 mbit technology Dram devices

D845DVSR confirmed here for emachines W2888
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1...

and for emachines H28262 here:
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1...

D845GVSR is the OEM only Intel Sea Breeze mboard - unofficial info:
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1...
Lists all the known emachines models the same mboard is used in.

Manual last one this page:
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1...

No listing for Intel D845DVSR on Kingston Site - that's the usual case for Intel OEM only mboards - mboards supplied only to brand name system builders.
Intel OEM only mboards have no model number on them, but they usually have a prominant number simlar to yours - e210882.

There is a listing or ram for emachines W2888 on the Kingston site:
http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/con...

"The new memory is Kingston KTM3304/1G"

That's not listed - If it's not listed it may or may not be compatible with the mboard.
If it's not compatible, it won't work properly - in the worst cases the mboard will not boot when incompatible memory is installed, and it may not even beep to indicate a ram problem.
However, installing incompatible ram does not hurt your mboard - the orginal ram shouldstill work, if you haven't damaged it or anything else.

" DIMMS utilizing 512 mbit technology Dram devices "

On the Kingston web site, if you search for using the module part number, KTM3304/1G in this case, at the right end of the Detailed Specifications line there's often a highlighted link to a Data sheet *.pdf document - in that document, it tells you how many chips it has, and what xxxx mbit the chips are on the module.

Your mboard won't recognize modules with chips with higher than " 512 mbit " properly.


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#2
August 18, 2009 at 16:14:12
According to my search, the board is made by Intel. Try a google search for documentation. When you remove the memory, clean the contacts real well before you reinstall it.

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#3
August 18, 2009 at 16:33:59
The Kingston ram is System Specific, probably not compatible with your Motherboard. See links.

http://shop.kingston.com/PartsInfo....

http://shop.kingston.com/models.asp...

There is nothing to learn from someone who already agrees with you.


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Related Solutions

#4
August 18, 2009 at 20:39:02
Thank you sincerely for the input folks.
I haven't had a chance to read through all those references
yet. I'm gonna have to pick this up tomorrow evening.
You'll have to forgive me for possibly not using all the right
terms to describe what's going on, but when I hit the power
button to turn things on, I get the Gateway 'splash screen' and
then the Windows 'splash screen' with the sliding blue bar
before the thing shuts down and starts power cycling all over
again.
However, if I hit the proper function key (f2 I think it is) I can
get into the bios settings. It stays there indefinitely while I
make changes, etc so would you still think the power supply
could be bad? ('cuz the computer is booted up fully, just not
running windows).

I've looked over all the connectors and everything seems to be
in place.


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#5
August 19, 2009 at 07:26:16
See response 1.

If you have cards in slots, did you make sure they were all the way down in their slots?

If the PS is okay, and if nothing else is damaged, your booting problem is probably caused by a poor ram connection.

If you have not tried cleaning the ram contacts and re-seating the ram, follow the directions there.
If you have, try that again.
Boot with ONLY the original ram installed, to start out with.

If your PS is damaged, they often still partially work, so people tend to think something else is wrong.
If you have another computer you can borrow a PS from, or can borrow a PS from a friend's computer, that has enough capacity for your system (at least as much as the output rating on it's label), try connecting that. You don't have to install it in the case for testing purposes - just prop it up if necessary so all connections can be connected.
Newer PSs often have a combo 20/24 "pin" main connector - the 20 "pin" part may have a 4 "pin" part that is clipped onto or slides the 20 "pin" part and is easily removable, or installable.
......

First manual I linked to -

Make sure the white 4 "pin" power socket near the corner of the cpu socket is connected to the PS

Page 14 - allowed combos of cpu fsb speeds and ram speeds - that should be correct if you have not changed any bios setup settings

Page 28 - If installing a single DIMM, install it in slot 0 (the one closer to the cpu socket)

Page 28 and 29 - how to install and remove the ram properly


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#6
August 19, 2009 at 08:29:04
"....I can
get into the bios settings. It stays there indefinitely while I
make changes...."

Your problems were probably NOT cause by whatever settings the bios was set to - you may have messed something up. Go into the bios and load defaults, save settings.

"...I get the Gateway 'splash screen' and
then the Windows 'splash screen' with the sliding blue bar
before the thing shuts down and starts power cycling all over
again...."

Symptoms like that can be caused by software problems in Windows, but if you were not having problems before you tried the new ram, that's probably not your case - in your case that's more likely to be caused by a ram connection problem, or possibly a PS problem.

You can have all sorts of random symptoms when you have a ram problem that is producing a relatively small amount of ram errors!
....

ALL of the following assumes you are NOT having ram or PS problems!

If your problem IS caused by a software problem in Windows, if it was working fine before you tried the ram, trying the ram has somehow damaged the data on the drive, which is quite possible.

You could try
- remove any bootable CDs or DVDs from drives
- boot the computer while repeatedly pressing F8 - don't hold down the key
- when the boot choices menu appears, select
Disable automatic restart on system failure

Windows XP is set by default to reboot automatically when it encounters certain unrecoverable errors. When you turn that off, you often get a blue screen and an error message, sometimesit namesaproblem file, which you can copy down and investigate,. instead of the computer rebooting when Windows encounters the same error.

Turning that off while booting only turns that off the one time.
If you manage to get into Windows, you can set it so the computer is more likely to always generate a message rather than rebooting automatically .
To have XP possibly display an error message you can investigate instead of the computer rebooting:

1. Click Start, and then right-click My Computer.
2. Click Properties.
3. Click the Advanced tab, and then click Settings under Startup and Recovery.
4. Under System failure, click on the small box beside Automatically restart to remove the checkmark.
5. Click OK, and then click OK.
...

If that doesn't help, you could try

- boot the computer while repeatedly pressing F8 - don't hold down the key
- when the boot choices menu appears, select
Enable VGA mode

If that works (your resolution may be lower and your icons bigger) then your problem is probably related to the specific video drivers that were loaded for your graphics adapter.

If that doesn't work, try

- boot the computer while repeatedly pressing F8 - don't hold down the key
- when the boot choices menu appears, select
Safe mode,
or Safe Mode with networking

If that works (your resolution may be lower and your icons bigger), then something that is loaded in normal mode but not in Safe mode is causing your problem.

If that doesn't work, there are several other things you could try. Some are only possible if you have or can borrowaregular Windows XP CD.


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#7
August 21, 2009 at 08:51:11
Well, I'm sorry to say that I'm still having problems.
- I am only using the original RAM.
- I have cleaned the contacts and made sure that the RAM is
properly seated and in slot 0.
- I have also verified all of the power connection and the video
card connection and everything seems snug.
- I don't have access to another power supply.

I'm kinda at a loss. The obvious reason for adding RAM to
this PC in the first place was that it is running very slow.
Would it make sense to buy a used PC off of ebay and swap
in my harddrive for the one that comes in the new one?
Hard drive space is not a concern for us. We don't store
much on the computer and aren't close to filling the 40Gig
drive that's in it.
I hate to throw money at an old pc without getting some
benefit, but we can't really afford a brand new one right now.

Any ideas?
Anything I've missed?


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#8
August 21, 2009 at 12:01:52
Have you tried everything in response 6 after....

"ALL of the following assumes you are NOT having ram or PS problems!" ??

Whether you have or not, you need to try those things and tell me/us the results.
......

Do you have or can borrow a regular Windows XP Home CD??.
...............................................................................

Lots of things can cause XP to run slower than it should. Not enough ram is only one of the causes.
If XP performed better when you first installed XP and for a while after that, after you had installed all Windows updates, etc., then something else is probably causing your present slowness and there are simple standard things you can try to fix that.
E.g.
Many people have far too many Startup programs that load when Windows loads that have been installed as part of a software installation with or without them being aware of them while installing the software - most of them, or sometimes all or nearly all of them, do NOT need to be loaded in order for the program's software to work correctly.
Start - Run - type: msconfig (click OK or press Enter) - click on the Startup tab to see alist of most of the programs that load when Windows starts up. Some load and then unload a short time later; others load and stay loaded all the time.

Many anti-malware programs have a resident scanning module (a part that runs all the time) that slows down Windows a lot more than others. E.g. Norton products - worse; AVG 8.x - not too bad at all.

If you connect to the internet through a router, it has a hardware based firewall built in. Even with that set to default settings, most people do not need to use a software firewall other than the one built into XP when they connect to the internet through a router.
......

XP with 256mb and onboard video runs as XP was designed to, but it only has a little available free ram for programs other than those built into Windows - if you are using ANY video card in a slot instead you have a little more free mboard ram that's available to Windows and the same installed ram amount performs better overall when something works better when higher data transfer rates are available (when you use onboard video the max data transfer rate of the ram - bandwidth - is as much as halved; when you use any video card in a slot, that restriction is not there ).
Usually you can make do with 256mb quite well as long as you deliberately try to have as few programs (that did not come with Windows) running at a time as you can.

A hard drive that does not have enough free space on the Windows partition, which is usually C, will cause that, but you say it isn't anywhere near full.

Your computer came with Win 2000. 2000 has lower minumum ram requirements.


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#9
August 21, 2009 at 17:12:50
Thank you again.

I think this PC shipped with XP on it already. (It belonged to
my inlaws before they gave it to us, but it has a "Designed for
Windows XP" sticker on it and had XP when they gave it to
us.)

I disabled automatic restart on system failure and got a blue
screen with the following error:

Stop C0000221 {Bad image checksum} The image url.dll is
possibly corrupt. The header checksum does not match the
computer checksum.

So, I'm not sure if that just confirms the bad RAM or if I might
be able to replace a corrupted file and move forward.
I do have a Windows XP Home CD that was supplied by Dell
for another computer that I used to have. Based on some
reading that I did online, I tried putting in the windows XP disk,
booting into recovery console, choosing my OS, logging in
and running this command:

copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll
c:\windows\system32
However I don't know the Administrator password for this PC
so it says "Access is denied."

Is there another way to replace this file?

Btw, I was not able to boot into either VGA mode or Safe
mode with Networking.

As for the PC running slow before:
- I had removed pretty much everything from the startup folder.
- The computer has AVG on it already.
- I recently ran Adaware and Spybot to remove any adware.
- I've tried disk cleanup and defrags.
At this point, I'd just like to get back to the slow, somewhat
functioning computer that I had before this started. ;-)

Thanks again.....


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#10
August 22, 2009 at 10:52:04
"...it has a "Designed for
Windows XP" sticker on it ..."

OK, then it did come with XP on it. Some models of that vintage originally came out with 2000 on them, then later came out with XP on them. It probably would have been the original XP with no SP updates at all included.

Did you get any Recovery disk or similar along with it? If you didn't your relatives may still have it but were not aware of what it was for.
Does it still have it's original Gateway software installation on it? If it does, brand name systems of this vintage often came with a brand name supplied program that came make a Recovery disk or Recovery disk set or similar, if the computer didn't originally come with a Recovery disk, if Windows is still working well enough to use it. The original hard drive on brand systems almost always has a second smaller partition on it. Either the the brand name builder hides that partition from being seen in Windows in My Computer and Windows Explorer, or you can see it as D but you are strongly discouraged from accessing it or altering it. On older systems that second partition often has all the orginal files on it that are necessary to load the original brand name supplied software on the C partition, and in that case it's often called the Recovery partition or similar. If that Recovery partition is still there and all the data on it is un-altered, as a last resort, you can use a single Recovery CD along with that to load the original brand name supplied software on the C partition. If the partition is no longer there, or if it's data isnot thereor has been altered, then you need a Recovery disk set to re-load the entire hard drive.
However, if you have data on C you have added you don't want to lose, you must copy it or back it up elsewhere, if you can, by one method or another, then copy it or restore it back onto C later, otherwise you lose that added data. You don't need to be concerned about programs you installed that you have the original CDs and possibly product keys for or that you can easily download from the web and install. If you use Outlook or Outlook Express or certain add on email programs, if you can still use Windows you can back up the files for Outlook or Outlook Express, other email programs may have similar priocedures or you may be able to simply copy the email In and Out mailbox files, etc., and not lose your accumated email.

How do you tell whether the hard drive has two partitions if the second partition is hidden from you seeing it in My Computer and Windows Explorer?
- it should show up in Disk Management in XP (Control Panel - Classic View - Administrative Tools - Computer Management - Disk Management).
- a drive manufacter's size is a decimal size - your mboard bios and Windows Setup sees a 40gb drive's raw size as it's binary size - about 37gb binary. When Setup software partitions (NTFS for partitions >32gb is the only choice in XP) and formats the drive, that uses up some of the raw space, so in Windows, if the whole drive were one partition, the size of C would be, say, about 34gb. If the size of C is a fair bit smaller than that, you probably have a smaller hidden second partition on the drive.
......

Your STOP: C0000221 unknown hard error STATUS_IMAGE_CHECKSUM_MISMATCH does NOT normally indicate there's anything wrong with the ram.

Contrary to popular belief, it's extremely rare for ram that worked fine previously to go BAD, unless you have damaged it by something you did yourself, or some event such as a power failure event that produced voltage spikes or surges damaged it.
If you cleaned it's contacts and reseated it, there's probably nothing wrong with your original ram module.

You can easily confirm whether you have a ram problem.
If you want to try a memory diagnostic utility that takes a lot less time to run a full pass than memtest86 does, this one is pretty good - Microsoft's
Windows Memory Diagnostic:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag...
It can be toggled (press T) to do a standard or a more comprehensive set of tests - use the default 6 test one first - if it passes one pass of that, use the latter one. A few of the tests in the latter set are intentionally slower.
If you don't have a floppy drive, see the Quick Start Information at that Microsoft link for how to make a bootable CD of the Windows Memory Diagnostic (you need Windiag.iso - you don't necessarily need to use the program they mention to add it to the CD).
NOTE that if someone has replaced the ram that was orginally in this mboard with another one, the module may not be 100% compatible and the diagnostics may find ram errors because of that, NOT because the module is bad. If you DO get errors, and you HAVE cleaned the ram contacts and re-seated the module, tell me/us what the ram manufacturer part number is on the module, or the Gateway part number on the module, and I'll see if I can find out whether it should be compatible.
......

"I disabled automatic restart on system failure and got..."

"Btw, I was not able to boot into either VGA mode or Safe
mode with Networking."

As I pointed out, Disable automatic restart on system failure only works the one time you select it - the computer starts up in normal mode otherwise when you select that.

If you manage to get into Windows when you select Disable automatic restart on system failure, if you want Windows to possibly start up in any mode without re-starting when it encountersan error that would normally make Windows restart, then you must disable that setting in Windows.
" If you manage to get into Windows, you can set it so the computer is more likely to always generate a message rather than rebooting automatically .
To have XP possibly display an error message you can investigate instead of the computer rebooting:

1. Click Start, and then right-click My Computer.
2. Click Properties.
3. Click the Advanced tab, and then click Settings under Startup and Recovery.
4. Under System failure, click on the small box beside Automatically restart to remove the checkmark.
5. Click OK, and then click OK. "
.......

"I do have a Windows XP Home CD that was supplied by Dell
for another computer that I used to have. Based on some
reading that I did online, I tried putting in the windows XP disk,
booting into recovery console, choosing my OS, logging in
and running this command:

copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll
c:\windows\system32
However I don't know the Administrator password for this PC
so it says "Access is denied." "

From what I've seen for several older Dell computers that have XP on them, one of the the disks that comes with them, e.g. one I have here is "Reinstallation CD" "Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" is actually merely a slightly modified OEM XP Home CD - it's contents are nearly identical to a regular OEM Windows CD -OEM CDs arealways a full version, not an upgrade version.
In that case, that Dell CD behaves the same way as a regular OEM XP CD.

When you go into the Recovery Console

- it looks for existing Windows installations.
Usually it only finds one, e.g. C:\Windows
Type the NUMBER before it, then press Enter.
Usually that's type:1 , Press Enter

I found this out only by trial and error....

- when you then are prompted for
Administrator Password:

- if there are no asterisks - "stars" - **'s - the uppercase of 8 on your keyboard - there is no password - DO NOT enter anything, just press Enter

- if there ARE asterisks, the password is the same one used for Adminstrator in Windows, e.g. when you boot into Safe mode and choose Administrator - enter the password - the case of characters is important (e.g. whether they are upper or lower case letters) - THEN press Enter.

Brand name systems DO NOT normally have an Administrator password when you get the computer intially.
If you have tried choosing Safe mode and then the Administrator user previously, if you didn't have to supply a password for that user, you don't need one in Recovery Console either.

If you DO see asterisks beside Administrator Password:
and you're fairly sure there should not be a password
- try just pressing Enter anyway
if that doesn't work

- there is(are) (a) bug(s) that can cause that or a password that should work not working and there is a workaround for that
- OR - if you can access ANY user that has Administator rights in Windows itself, there is a little known command you can use that will remove the password for any other user you choose, without you losing any of that user's personal data.
(e.g. if you delete a user, you lose all that user's data in C:\Documents and Settings\(that user)\all subfolders, and the "parent" (that user) folder - nothing shows up in the Recycle Bin - even if you make another user that has the identical name).

There are default restrictions on what you can do in the Recovery Console.
Access is Denied to most folders and files on them on partition hard drive Windows is on, but you can access C:\Windows , or whatever the Windows folder on the partition is, and any of it's sub folders and files.
You can access files on disks in CD or DVD drives, but as I recall you can't access the floppy drive.
You can access any folder or file on another hard drive partition other than the one \Windows is on, for the Windows installation you chose.

However
copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll c:\windows\system32
should work fine,
OR you may need to type
copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll c:\windows\system32\url.dll
instead (commands in the Recovery Console DO NOT necessarily abide by the same rules as similar ones in Windows itself)
providing you type it all in one go, a space between them, do not press Enter between them (you did press Enter betwen the last 2 parts when you quoted that line).

Type: exit (press Enter)
to get out of the Recovery Console - the computer will reboot.

There are other things you can try in the Recovery Console.
e.g.
chkdsk /r C: (press Enter)
There is no /f switch for it in the Recovery Console. It takes a lot longer to complete than chkdsk /f in Windows does.

If that is successful, Windows MAY then work fine in normal mode, but if it doesn't,
- you may get a blue screen error that names a different file. You could try replacing that file in Recovery Console too.
- often, Windows can't tell you directly what specific file is causing a software problem and names a file affected by the software problem instead, so replacing the named file does not help.
In that case, or in any case when you can't figure out is wrong with Windows, you are often better off to run what many call a "Repair install" procedure, and what I prefer to call a "Repair Setup" procedure, which does not delete the user's data and the user's settings that have been added to the partition Windows was installed on.
However, that can only fix problems caused by files that are on the Windows XP CD you use, you MUST use an OEM XP CD for a brand name computer (a retail full version CD won't work with the Product Key on the label on the brand name computer but it will work with it's own key; retail Upgrade CDs won't work; if a CD that came with the brand name computer is actually a slightly modified OEM CD that will work; a regular OEM CD will work with the Product Key on the brand name system for the same version, Home or Pro, or it's own key ), and you MUST KNOW and use the Product Key for your Windows installation.
If you don't know the Product Key, or if you don't use an OEM XP CD, then you can't finish the procedure - if you quit Setup at that point you WILL NOT have the second Repair choice available when you boot with the CD again.


The "Repair install" procedure, and what I prefer to call a "Repair Setup" procedure, is the second Repair choice when you boot the computer with a full version XP CD - Repair your exsting Windowsinstalltion or similar. If certain required filesare damaged in the Windows installation, you will NOT see that second Repair choice.
For a brand name computer, you can use the Product Key on the official Microsoft label on the case, OR the Product Key found by using a program that can find it (e.g. the freeware Keyfinder) if you can still get into Windows, for the same version of Windows (Home or Pro) ONLY if you have booted using an OEM Windows CD.

I don't know if you can do that with the Dell CD, if it is actually a slightly modified OEM XP Home CD as I suspect it is - when you use it with your Gateway computer - I haven't tried installing Windows or doing the "Repair Setup" procedure with any such Dell CD on other than a Dell model it came with - the second Repair choice may not appear when you boot with the CD.
........

How to do an XP Repair Setup, step by step:
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/win...

If your Windows CD does not have SP1 or SP2 or SP3 updates included, and you updated to SP2, or SP3, you may have to install SP2 or SP3 updates again to get it working properly. SP1 or later is required for USB 2.0 and hard drives larger than 137gb (manufacturer's size; 128gb in Windows and most bioses).
The regular original XP CDs and XP CDs that have SP1 updates have nothing about SP printed on the original CD; however the volume label (the label for the CD you see in Windows) for the original version XP CDs are different from those that include SP1 updates - you can search with that on the web to determine if it has SP1updates included. Regular XP CDs with SP2 or SP3 updates included have SP2 or SP3 printed on the original CD.

You may also need to re-install some of your Windows Updates.


NOTE: I have found some older XP Home CD's without SP1 or SP2 updates (e.g. made in 2001 - see the date on the CD) DO NOT have the second Repair choice option when you boot with the CD!
In that case, if you want to try the "Repair Setup" procedure, you have to either borrow an XP CD with at least SP1 updates included, or make your self a "slipstreamed" CD with SP3 updates integrated into Windows, and use that to boot the computer with.
.......

An alternative is, if Windows is still working, is to try running SFC - System File Checker - it will replace any essential file found on the XP CD that is found to be corrupted or missing. However that has a glitch. If Windows has had SP2 or SP3 updates loaded, if your XP CD does not have SP2 or SP3 updates included on it, SFC will NOT recognize the XP CD as valid - as the CD it wants . You have to make yourself a "slipsteamed" CD that has the contents of your original CD with the SP2 or SP3 updates integrated into it, or borrow one that has the SP updates included.

(Insert the Windows CD in a drive.
Start - Run - type: sfc /scannow (click OK or press Enter)
If it says it's having trouble reading a file, try clicking on Retry - sometimes you have to do that many times, but sfc will eventually complete. Reboot the computer when it completes, try your computer for a while to see if the problem is gone.
If SFC will not accept the XP CD you're using as valid, or if you want to quit SFC (it takes up to 30 minutes or more to complete) , you can't quit SFC - press the Alt-Ctrl-Del keys at the same time, choose Shut Down, then Restart or Turn Off.)



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#11
August 24, 2009 at 20:20:55
- I did run Windows memory diagnostic -just the standard
test, but I ran it with each stick of RAM individually and with
them both together and everything passed.
- There are no asterisks when prompted for the admin
password. I did hit "enter" and things progress, but when I
type
"copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll
c:\windows\system32"
-or-
"copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll
c:\windows\system32\url.dll"
(no carriage return) I still get 'access denied'.
This may be a stupid question, but shouldn't my source
location actually be d:\.... instead of c:\.... if I'm trying to
replace the file on my system with a file on the disk?
- I'm running a "chkdsk /r c:" right now. I'll have to post the
results of that later after it finishes.
- This computer should still have the original install on it, but
we do NOT have the original recovery disks.
- I cannot get it to boot into windows at all to try looking for
backup files/partitions, etc.

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#12
August 24, 2009 at 20:44:14
Ok, chkdsk is done.
For what its worth, the "chkdsk /r c:" said it found and repaired
one or more errors.
The symptoms haven't changed. Still fails to boot and when I
disable reboot I still get the blue screen with the same error
message about url.dll.

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#13
August 25, 2009 at 08:25:28
"I did run Windows memory diagnostic -just the standard
test, but I ran it with each stick of RAM individually and with
them both together and everything passed."

Usually if it passes the standard test, it passes the long test, but you should run the long test at least once with all the ram modules installed.

"This may be a stupid question, but shouldn't my source
location actually be d:\.... instead of c:\.... if I'm trying to
replace the file on my system with a file on the disk?"

Windows has backup copies of many files in c:\windows\system32\dllcache\ - url.dll is one of them.
In that case, there's usually nothing wrong with the backup copy, so you can copy it to c:\windows\system32 , or wherever is appropriate, instead of copying it from the CD.

I tried
copy c:\windows\system32\dllcache\url.dll c:\windows\system32
in the Recovery Console on a computer I have here. It works fine.

"I still get 'access denied'."

That's NOT normal.

If url.dll in ....\dllcache were corrupted of missing, you would get a different message than you're getting, NOT Access Denied.

Recovery Console has restrictions, e.g. you get Access Denied when you try to access most folders other than C:\Windows, and it's subfolders and files, but that command line you typed should work fine.

When Recovery Console started, did it find just the one Windows installation?
....

"I do have a Windows XP Home CD that was supplied by Dell
for another computer that I used to have."

That CD is a slightly modified OEM XP CD - it could possibly be it has something on it that doesn't allow you to use all of the Recovery Console's normal default features on a non-Dell computer.

Out of curiousity, I tried a Dell CD I have here
"Reinstallation CD" "Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" that came with an older laptop.

When I type R to go into the Recovery Console, it does NOT find ANY Windows installations at all, on the same computer the regular OEM CD does find them. I tried that twice.

SO - I suspect this is your case - your Dell CD has something on it that doesn't allow you to use all the normal default features of Recovery Console on a non-Dell computer.
It appears in your case it finds the Windows installation(s) and you can use chkdsk and probably other commands normally, but you can't do other standard things that Recovery Console normally allows you to do.

Can you borrow a regular OEM XP Home CD from someone you know?

OEM XP Home CD = it's usually a gold color, has holograms on it, and always has this printed on it: "For distribution with a new PC only" or very similar.

Or you could borrow a retail full version XP Home CD, but you probably won't be able to use the Product Key on the Microsoft label that's on your computer with that.
(Using the Recovery Console doesn't require the Product Key but other procedures you may need to do, do require it).

If you can't borrow a CD, you could try this CD - it will allow you to copy url.dll - but you need to burn the CD yourself on a working computer:
Ultimate boot CD - free
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

Universal disk - $10 - you could try copying url.dll using this.
Download it from the web, make the CD yourself, or have the CD shipped to you
($10 plus shipping probably)
http://www.recovery-cds.com/laptop/...

New OEM XP Home with SP3 CDs are available locally at some places that sell computer parts and software, or are available online:
E.g.
http://www.nextag.com/Microsoft-Win...

That's much cheaper than the retail full version because OEM in this case = you provide your own technical support.
(In the case of brand name system CDs like your Dell one that are a slightly modified OEM XP CD, OEM = they provide the technical support, that Microsoft would normally provide when you buy a retail CD).
........

You can find out if you can buy a Gateway Recovery disk set for your model here:
http://secure.tx.acer.com/RCDB/Main...
but in most cases brand name builders don't have anything available for models older than about 5 years.

Recovery disk sets for your specific model are cheaper, e.g. $50 or less inc. shipping, than buying a new OEM XP Home CD, but most if not all of them give you no choice but to wipe the drive contents and install the originally installed software - if you have data you don't want to lose, you have to copy or back it up elsewhere before you do the Recovery procedure.

There are a small number of web sites that have the original Recovery CD sets or Recovery DVDs for specific brand name models., but so far I haven't had any luck finding that for a Gateway anything. They're either copies of the original CDs or DVDs, or they're a copy of a Recovery CD set made by a user by using a brand name supplied program already there in the original software, while Windows was still working well enough to make the set.


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#14
August 25, 2009 at 21:21:06
I created a bootable disc from http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
It certainly looks like there are a lot of powerful tools here, but I'm
not familiar with many of them.
How exactly could I go about replacing my url.dll file using this
cd?

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#15
August 25, 2009 at 22:35:01
Since the operating system on the CD, when you boot with it (I'm assuming you knew or found out how to make it bootable, if that was required), can probably see all the files on the hard drive, since the operating system is probably not XP or Windows, you're probably not limited by what you can't do in XP or can't do with the Dell modified XP CD in Recovery Console.
- Find a way to go to a command prompt, make sure you're on C. If you're not, change drives. E.g. type: C: (press Enter) , at least that works for Dr. Dos, etc.
Type: copy C:\Windows\System32\dllcache\url.dll C:\Windows\System32
or
copy C:\Windows\System32\dllcache\url.dll C:\Windows\System32\url.dll

That should work.
However, that may vary depending on the operating system, and you'll have to look up how to type what you need to change drives or copy files.

However, as I pointed out before, often Windows can't tell you what is actually wrong and names a file affected by the software problem rather than whatever caused it.
Successfully copying url.dll may not help, or you may get a different error and need to copy another file, etc., etc.

In that case, if nothing seems to fix the problem after many steps have been taken, you're probably going to need an OEM XP Home CD to fix the problem, if you want to keep the personal data you added to the hard drive,
- unless you don't mind the fuss and time it would take of copying or backing up everything you don't want to lose, that can't be re-installed, elsewhere, (or copy everything on C to another hard drive partition, such as with XXCOPY), then you could just use the Recovery CD, then copy or restore backups of your personal data back to the hard drive.

Your spare time is not actually free - it's worth something. How much time are you willing to spend? Buying an OEM XP CD may cost you less overall when you take that into account .


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#16
August 30, 2009 at 16:00:10
Thanks again!
I finally realized that the install was not in the C:\Windows....
folder, but the C:\WINNT.... folder which is why it was telling
me access denied.
So, I issued the following command:
copy C:\WINNT\System32\dllcache\url.dll
C:\WINNT\System32
and it seemed to replace the file successfully.
I tried rebooting and after disabling automatic reboot, I get the
same blue screen indicating that urlmon.dll is now the corrupt
file.
I then issued the following command:
copy C:\WINNT\System32\dllcache\urlmon.dll
C:\WINNT\System32
and it copied a file, but the computer still reboots with
urlmon.dll as the problem file.
Did I copy urlmon.dll to the right place?
I noticed when I replaced url.dll that it prompted me to replace
an existing file, but when I copied urlmon.dll it didn't prompt
me as if I was overwriting something. It just said 1 file copied
successfully.
Maybe I put urlmon.dll in the wrong place and so I didn't really
replace the file that its trying to use?

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#17
August 30, 2009 at 23:06:18
There is normally no C:\WINNT\*.*\ etc. in XP.

( *.* = "wild card" ; any file with any extension)

I searched and found
- some Gateway computers that are running XP have both a C:\Windows and C:\WINNT folder
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/foru...
- if Win 2000 was upgraded with an XP OEM Upgrade CD, the Windows folder (the folder Windows runs from), is C:WINNT (rather than C:\Windows)
http://support.gateway.com/s/SOFTWA...
- OR - Gateway may have had some oddball reason for installing a non upgrade (full) version XP installation and used C:\WINNT instead of C:\Windows.

When you use the Recovery Console, the first thing it does is look for Windows installations.

I'm assuming you have only one Windows installation on one hard drive.

Does it list

1. C:\WINNT
or
1. C:\Windows ?

It can't list both (two different numbers) , unless someone installed a second Windows installations.

Whatever one it lists, if it lists only one, that's the XP installation you need to fix.

Recovery Console can't access C:\Windows\etc. if the Windows installation is listed as C:\WINNT

urlmon.dll is in C:\Windows\System32 and C:\Windows\System32\dllcache in XP
on my computer - XP was installed on it from an OEM XP CD

C:\Windows is merely the default folder XP's Windows is installed on. It's convenient to use the default folder name simply because it makes references simpler. It doesn't matter what the name of the folder is as long as XP knows what the name of the Windows folder is.
In this case the default was C:\WINNT. You could change it to anything else - C:\Fart - or anything you like if you wanted to while running Setup.

The actual Windows installtion folder is shown in System Information - Windows Directory -
on the right on the first page you see(directory is the older legacy name = folder) (e.g. Start - Run - type: msinfo32, click OK) when Windows is working normally.
........

SO, if your Windows installation IS on C:\WINNT, and if copying url.dll and urlmon.dll to C:\WINNT\System32 does not get Windows working properly and you get no further messages about corrupted or missing files, then I suspect.....

"- often, Windows can't tell you directly what specific file is causing a software problem and names a file affected by the software problem instead, so replacing the named file does not help. "


"you're probably going to need an OEM XP Home CD to fix the problem, if you want to keep the personal data you added to the hard drive, "
You MAY be able to use the Dell CD, since you now know the Windows installation is on C:\WINNT.
See the part about "Repair Setup" in response 11.
You MUST use a proper Product Key!!
It should be on the official Microsoft label on the computer case and it must be the same version as the Windows installation - Home or Pro - as on the Dell CD.
NOTE that I know for sure that Product Key works for sure with a regular OEM XP CD - there's a small possibilty it won't work with the Dell CD!! If it doesn't work, you will lose your personal data if it hasn't already been backed up!

"- unless you don't mind the fuss and time it would take of copying or backing up everything you don't want to lose, that can't be re-installed, elsewhere, (or copy everything on C to another hard drive partition, such as with XXCOPY), then you could just use the Recovery CD, then copy or restore backups of your personal data back to the hard drive. "

NOTE: I'm assumimg the Recovery CD has XP on it , NOT 2000.


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#18
August 31, 2009 at 10:52:25
Yes, I only have the one install: 1. C:\WINNT

"- often, Windows can't tell you directly what specific file is
causing a software problem and names a file affected by the
software problem instead, so replacing the named file does
not help. "
Apparently, this is the case because I have been able to
replace
url.dll urlmon.dll wininet.dll and iertutil.dll and I'm still getting
the error (this time with IEFRAME.dll). So, I guess I'm on a
wild goose chase there.

There is actually very little data on this computer that I would
like to save. In fact, we could probably live if nothing got
saved at all. And, of course that would speed the system up
anyway.

There is a WinXP Home license sticker on the side of the
tower. So, even to do a format and fresh install would I need
an OEM XP cd?

From what you've seen so far, do you think we might have
problems doing a reinstall (like maybe we have a hardware
problem of some kind)? Or, would you be fairly confident that
a reinstall would fix the issues?


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#19
August 31, 2009 at 15:12:57
"....I have been able to
replace
url.dll urlmon.dll wininet.dll and iertutil.dll and I'm still getting
the error (this time with IEFRAME.dll). So, I guess I'm on a
wild goose chase there."

In that case you could keep at it until you get no messages about files corrupted or missing.

If that doesn't help, I recommend you try the "Repair Setup" procedure, using the Dell OEM XP CD, but I recommend you copy or backup what you don't want to lose first before you do that. It takes less than an hour to run. Use the Product key on the label, or the Product Key you find in Windows (see below) .
NOTE that the case - upper or lower - of letters may be important when you enter the key ( I alway enable Caps Lock on the keyboard) - and if the type face is really small, it's easy to confuse some characters e.g. 8 and B - use something to magnify the code if you need to. There are never capital O's or lower case L's in the code - those are always zeros or ones.
If it works fine, you'll probably not have the problem you're having anymore, you'l still have all your personal data, and having run it may allow Windows run better than it had been.
It it doesn't work, or if it does but doesn't fix the problem or Windows is still running too slow, I recommend you use the Recovery disk for your model, and then load data you copied or backed up elsewhere if you did that (see next).

"In fact, we could probably live if nothing got
saved at all. And, of course that would speed the system up
anyway."

The amount of data on the hard drive(s) has no effect on Window's speed unless....
- the partition \WINNT is on and is booting from is too full - that'susually C - doesn't have at least a minimal amount of free space.
- the data is using additional Windows resources because it's running all the time, if it's a program or program feature.

Some programs will take longer to complete when you have more data, of course - e.g. Defrag, manual anti-malware scans, etc., but when they're not running there is no slow down.

If you don't have much you'd rather save, then it shouldn't take long to do this...
"...copying or backing up everything you don't want to lose, that can't be re-installed, elsewhere, (or copy everything on C to another hard drive partition, such as with XXCOPY), ..."

You don't need to back up anything you have the installation disks for, or have the disks and a key for if that's required, or anything you can easily download from the web again.
Most of your personal User data is in C:\Documents and Settings\(user name other than Administrator or All Users)\(user name's subfolders) - internet browser program Favorites or similar, Desktop icons and links on the desktop, My Documents, My Pictures, your personal email data and attachments if you use one that came with or was installed by you in Windows. etc., etc.

If you use Outlook or Qutlook Express, there are backup procedures for both of them. There are backup procedures for some added on other Microsoft products too. It sounds like your Windows would work well enough to do that.

"There is a WinXP Home license sticker on the side of the
tower. So, even to do a format and fresh install would I need
an OEM XP cd?"

When you boot using the Recovery disk, or the OEM XP CD, when you're re-installing from scratch, the Recovery procedure or the operating system software partitions and then formats the partition(s) in one step, once the original partition(s) has/have been deleted and after a new one or ones is created ( the OEM CD makes only one partition during Setup - if you want two or more partitions on a drive you choose a size smaller than the maximum for that one partition Windows is installed on - 1,024 mb per gb - and software partition and format the other partition(s) after Setup has finished in Disk Management in Windows; the brand name Recovery procedure makes two partitions and usually installs data on both of them, or in any case always on the first, larger one). Formatting the partitions(s) takes longer than software partitioning which is done first, so people tend to think they're only formatting.

If you're going to start over, the Recovery disk is the better option, if it has XP and not 2000 on it. The regular OEM or Dell OEM disk would probably not have all the built in drivers you need (you would have to get them from the Gateway site in the downloads for your model, if they're even there anymore, or from other sources, and in many cases you have to load main chipset drivers as well because the brand name site doesn't list them, especially important for laptops) and of course it wouldn't have any of the bonus software that was possibly on the original installtion.

If you use the Gateway Recovery disk, I'm assuming it has XP and not 2000 on it, if it's the same situation I've seen with similar brand name system Recovery disks for HP and Compaq systems, the Recovery disk installs a different Product Key than on the label automatically, and the Windows installation is auto Activated near the end of Setup or shortly after Setup finishes.

When you use a regular OEM CD, you always have to supply a Product Key it will accept, and you Activate Windows yourself, usually only after you have an internet connection and the drivers for the network adapter have been installed (unless you phone Microsoft) - sometimes the network adapter's drivers are not found by Setup and you have to load them, so that the internet can then work for Activation. The same probably applies to the Dell OEM XP re-installation CD, but I don't know for sure.

If your Windows still works well enough presently, you can use a program such as Keyfinder, available free on the web, and run it in Windows to find the Product Key Windows is already using, for the Windows installation you booted. Keyfinder also finds other Microsoft product's keys.

The Product Key on the label will work with the Recovery disk if it asks for a Product Key, or either the Product Key Windows is presently using or the Product key on the label will work with a regular OEM XP CD for the same version Home or Pro; however I have not tried a Dell OEM XP re-installation CD on a non-Dell system, so I can't say for sure it will work with the Product Key(s) for your system .
A retail XP full version CD or a retail Upgrade CD probably won't accept either Product Key(s) found in Windows or on the label.

"From what you've seen so far, do you think we might have
problems doing a reinstall (like maybe we have a hardware
problem of some kind)? Or, would you be fairly confident that
a reinstall would fix the issues?''

You said your ram tests fine now, and I think you said you ran diagnostics on the hard drive and the drive itself passed. If the optical drive and it's data cable are also having no problems, a re-install from scratch or a "Repair Setup" procedure should be trouble free.


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#20
August 31, 2009 at 21:19:01
Progress!!!

I replaced IEFRAME.dll and the computer actually booted.
However, shortly after booting, I got an error message that
popped up regarding C:\WINNT\System32\adsldpc.dll saying
it is "not a valid windows image".

Meanwhile, from a command prompt, if I typed "ipconfig -all" I
got the same error message.

I did notice that windows correctly shows the total of both
sticks of memory.

I worked my way through the following article:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findb...
dll-not-found-missing-error.htm

1.) n/a
2.) ran MalwareBytes. No changes. I tried to run AVG, but
couldn't get it to run successfully. It said the program needs
to be updated but cannot connect to the server to get
updates.
3.) n/a
4.) Not sure what program this would be.
5. & 6.) Not sure which device this would be.
7.) I ran the sfc /scannow tool. It searched for a while and
said "Files that are required for Windows to run properly must
be copied to the DLL Cache. Insert your Windows XP Home
Edition CD-ROM now." I put in the Dell CD and didn't think it
could find the files it needed because I had to hit "retry" but
several seconds later the message repeatedly came back.

After doing this, I wen't back to my cmd prompt and typed
"ipconfig -all" again and this time I actually got the adapter IP
info, so I went out to the web and told AVG to update. (I didn't
actually run AVG, just got updates.)
The computer prompted me that I would have to reboot.
When I did, the previous error message did not came up, but I
noticed that AVG was not running and when I tried to run the
update again it failed and just said "general failure".
So, I uninstalled AVG and reinstalled it and everything
*seems* to be fine.... (fingers crossed)

I'll see how things go and give you an update in a few days.

THANK YOU for your help!! I have been repeatedly surprised
at how you continue to work with me on this, and at the
amount of time you must have spent to do it.....


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#21
August 31, 2009 at 21:53:16
Tubesandwires kicks ass don't he? Absolutely no one here goes to the extraordanory lengths he does to help.

"I have been repeatedly surprised
at how you continue to work with me on this, and at the
amount of time you must have spent to do it....."

Tubes does that for everyone he tries to help.

Skip


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#22
August 31, 2009 at 23:42:22
"C:\WINNT\System32\adsldpc.dll saying
it is "not a valid windows image"."

adsldpc.dll is a legitimate standard Windows file name and can be various sizes.

Apparently, "not a valid windows image" CAN be, but is not always, an indication the computer has malware. If you also get a message from your anti-malware program about the same file, it probably IS malware. If your anti-malware program suddenly doesn't work it's likely to be associated with malware.

If Windows still works despite the error, you could try doing a Full scan with AVG of all of C, but that takes a long while, or you could just full scan the contents of the folder the file is in.

In this case, the error might have been caused by malware attacking AVG to disable it, the file name may have been something affected by the change, not what was changed, and you un-installing it and installing again fixed the problem, or it might have been caused by data damage and AVG also had data damage.

It CAN be merely an indication of data damage to a file of a type that makes the file seen as not valid to Windows.
In that case merely copying the file to whether it's located from a backup location or CD it came from may get rid of the problem.
NOTE that if the file backup is in C:WINNT\System32\dllcache, you won't be able to find it or ....\dllcache unless Folder Options - View in Control Panel is set to show all files, and when you Search in XP, you have to set it to include hidden files and folders.

If Windows won't let you replace a file because it's being used, use the Dell OEM XP CD and the Recovery Console to do that, or boot with the Ultimate Boot CD you made and do it with that.
If the file is on the XP CD but there is no backup in Windows,
use the Dell OEM XP CD and the Recovery Console to
go to the drive letter of the drive the XP CD is in - it may NOT be the same drive letter as in Windows.
e.g. type D: (press Enter)
- if you getan error message try adifferent letter.
type: dir (press Enter)
If you see the \i386 folder on the screen, and only a few other folders, that's the XP CD.
(it's actually \I386 with a capital i)
When you use the Copy command in the Recovery Console, it will automatically expand compressed files on the XP CD, but it won't rename the file extension automatically.
Most files are in \i386 on the CD
Type: cd i386 (press Enter)
Type dir and the first part of the file name followed by .*
e.g.
dir adsldpc.* (press Enter)
if the file is there it will be listed, with it's extension.
e.g. adsldpc.dl_

If it has _ at the end of it, it's compressed.
If it's compressed, you type copy, the compressed file name, it's destination folder, with the uncompressed file name.
e.g.
Type: copy adsldpc.dl_ C:\WINNT\System32\adsldpc.dll

If it's not compressed then type
Copy file.xxx drive letter\destination foldler
e.g.
Copy adsldpc.dll C:\WINNT\System32
.........

"if I typed "ipconfig -all" I got the same message.

ipconfig /all , not ipconfig -all

"I did notice that windows correctly shows the total of both
sticks of memory."

It certainly should if the ram tests fine.

"ran MalwareBytes"

Malwarebytes is an excellent anti-malware program - it gets rid of some things better than any program I know of - but you have not mentioned anything that indicates you needed to run it.
Missing or corrupted file errors are not normally not caused by malware. They were probably caused by something that went wrong when you initially tried to use the new ram module.

"When I did, the previous error message did not came up, but I noticed that AVG was not running and when I tried to run the update again it failed and just said "general failure".
So, I uninstalled AVG and reinstalled it and everything
*seems* to be fine.... (fingers crossed)"

In my experience AVG rarely bungs up, but when it does it has always worked fine when you un-install it and install it again. In this case it not working may have been caused by data damage.
...

" I ran the sfc /scannow tool. It searched for a while and
said "Files that are required for Windows to run properly must
be copied to the DLL Cache. Insert your Windows XP Home
Edition CD-ROM now." I put in the Dell CD and didn't think it
could find the files it needed because I had to hit "retry" but
several seconds later the message repeatedly came back.

It's likely the message eventually said it wasn't finding the source CD to be the CD it wants, or similar.

See Response 11 for what causes that and what you need to do to fix the problem - to find the info easily search this topic (Edit - Find, in IE) for "glitch" to find the general area of it.
.........

"Absolutely no one here goes to the extraordanory lengths he does to help."

Thanks for that, but it's extremely time consuming, because of my rotten typing skills mostly. I'm going to have to answer less soon. Often the person who started the Topic gives up before I do. But I do like to try to eventually solve the problem, or contribute to that along with the help of others.
I'm a stubborn Virgo regarding that.


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#23
September 2, 2009 at 12:55:18
Hats off to Tubes... for sterling (and maybe dollar) effort...

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#24
September 2, 2009 at 14:35:52
Thankyou for that, trvlr

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