2 related problems

Dell Dimension 4550 desktop
December 28, 2010 at 10:15:53
Specs: Windows xp
I have a laptop that died. I removed the hard drive and want to recover my files. I purchased an adapter from a computer shop that allowes me to connect to an ide cable. I was told I could just unplug one of the cd drives on a pc and conect my hard drive from my laptop.

I have an old dell that I dont use any more. It has a 2 cd drives on one IDE cable. I unplugged one of them and plugged in my hard drive and rebooted.

I got an error. Secondary hard disk drive 1 not found. f1 to continure f2 to setup.

I played with the settings but had no luck getting it to read my hard drive.

I tried re-connecting everything back to original but have a hangup.

On setup it shows:
Primary drive 0.....hard drive
primary drive 1.....off (there is only one hard drive)
Secondary drive 0...... cd-rom
secondary drive 1.......unknown device

It only recognizes the one cd drive, not the other, but If I connect the other cd drive it recognizes it.

The jumpers are set to cable select

I haven't changed anything besides the setup configuration.

I want my files off my old hard drive but right now I just want to be able to fix the problem I created.

If anyone can help with the right configuration, I would really appreciate it.

thanks


See More: 2 related problems

Report •

#1
December 28, 2010 at 11:18:35
It is common to un-intentionally damage IDE data cables, especially while removing them - the 80 wire ones are more likely to be damaged. What usually happens is the cable is ripped at either edge and the wires there are either damaged or severed, often right at a connector or under it's cable clamp there, where it's hard to see - if a wire is severed but it's ends are touching, the connection is intermittent, rather than being reliable.
Another common thing is for the data cable to be separated from the connector contacts a bit after you have removed a cable - there should be no gap between the data cable and the connector - if there is press the cable against the connector to eliminate the gap.
80 wire data cables are also easily damaged at either edge if the cable is sharply creased at a fold in the cable.

Try another data cable if in doubt.

80 wire data cables must have the proper end connector connected to the mboard IDE header - usually that's blue, but in any case it's the one farther from the middle connector on a 3 connector data cable.
.......

If you're using a typical laptop IDE to desktop IDE adapter that plugs into the pins on the laptop drive and into the female connector on the desktop computer IDE cable...
- you must connect a 2 "pin" (or possibly a 4 "pin") connector from the adapter's wiring to a power connector from the desktop PS - the laptop drive requires 5v power - connect to the red and black wires on the power connector from the PS.

- you must plug in the pins on the adapter into a female connector on the desktop data cable in the proper direction - one way works, the other does not.

"The jumpers are set to cable select"

- the laptop drive has 4 pins on it's header on one end, that don't plug into the adapter, that can designate it as jumpered Cable Select, or Slave, if a jumper is installed on two of certain pins - when there is no jumper on those pins, which is the usual case, the drive is set to Master - in that case, if you connect the adapter to an IDE cable on the desktop computer that has another IDE drive connected to the same cable, the other drive must be designated as Slave (NOT Cable Select or Master). Since the tiny jumper needed for setting the drive to Cable Select or Slave is hard to come by if you don't already have it, that's usually the easiest thing to do.

In case you're wondering, I have never encountered an IDE 3 connector data cable that cannot have either both drives being set to Cable Select, or one drive being set to Master, the other to Slave .
.......

You can eliminate the error messages you get while booting when the drives connected to the computer have changed if you can set all connections drives are connected to, to be Auto detected in the bios Setup. If you can't do that, just go into the bios and Save bios settings when you get the error message - you then won't get that message again when you boot after that, until the next time the drives connected have changed, assuming all drives are detected properly.
......

If the laptop drive has (a) NTFS partition(s), and if the old Dell desktop computer has ME or below as an operating system on it's hard drive, the operating system cannot recognize NTFS partitions and the data on them. In that case, you need to make yourself a bootable disk that has something on it that can read NTFS partitions so that you can boot the old Dell computer with it and then copy data - e.g. a bootable floppy disk with something on it meant for that purpose, or a bootable Linux CD.


Report •

#2
December 28, 2010 at 12:15:39
I don't know why the computer shop didn't recommend a USB adapter?

Report •

#3
December 28, 2010 at 12:16:49
thank you... i replaced the cable and it fixed the first problem. Both drives are showing and working now.

I would still like to recover my old hard drive. If anyone can tell me how to use the adapter, I would very much appreciate it.

I tried disconnecting both drives and just hooking up the old hard drive but there was an unknown device message again.

im not sure I understand the jumper pins, slave, master connection very well.

In theory, should I just be able to attatch my hard drive to access it? im using windows xp


Report •

Related Solutions

#4
December 28, 2010 at 12:18:40
I asked for a usb cable but they didn't have one. He said this would be faster anyway.

Both computers were running windows xp


Report •

#5
December 28, 2010 at 12:28:29
It's extremely likely there is probably no jumper on the laptop drive's header that's setting it to Cable Select or Slave .
In that case....
- you must set the other drive on the same data cable to Slave, not Cable Select or Master.
OR - you can connect only the laptop drive to the secondary data cable.
- if it's still not recognized properly after that, assuming there's nothing wrong with the drive and you do have 5v power connected to the adapter's wiring, the pins on the adapter are probably plugged into the female connector on the desktop IDE cable in the wrong direction.

You show the bios shows both a cd-rom drive and the unknown drive as being connected to the secondary data data cable connection.
On optical (CD or DVD) drives, they have 6 pins , 3 rows of 2 pins, on the back of the drive, and a jumper is on two of the pins vertically .
If what the pins are for is not obvious, use good lighting at the back of the drive - there are etched markings above the pins in the plastic - e.g. MA for Master, CS for Cable Select, SL for Slave.
If you connect both the CD drive and the adapter / laptop drive to the same data cable, the CD drive probably must be jumpered as Slave.


Report •

#6
December 28, 2010 at 12:30:28
Your current BIOS setting for that IDE port is set to CD/DVD. You need to change it to hard drive.

The answer I gave in the following is the principle of how things work with Dell machines. See post #5
http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...

The BIOS settings in your case will probably be as follows:
Primary Drive 0 ....................Hard Drive
Primary Drive 1 ....................Off
Secondary Drive 0 ................CD/DVD
Secondary Drive 1 ................CD/DVD (Change this to Hard Drive)

You will need to change it back to CD/DVD after you finish or your CD/DVD will not be detected.

___________________________________________
When everything else fails, read the instructions.


Report •

#7
December 28, 2010 at 12:45:36
I appreciate all the help! Im working on this right now.

Mosaddique...two questions:

1. Can I just unplug both cd drives and plug into the hard drive and leave the settings on cable select?

2. How can I change my bios setting to look for a hd rather than a cd/dvd drive other than what you suggested. In the setup screen, I only have the options of auto and off. If I set it to auto, it says unknown device.

Tubesandwires... There is no jumper on the laptop hd. I tried different power conectors and also tried turning it in case I did have it backwards. no luck... unknown device

I am assuming the hd is good


Report •

#8
December 28, 2010 at 13:53:12
1. Can I just unplug both cd drives and plug into the hard drive and leave the settings on cable select?
Cable select is usually a jumpering option on the hard drive or optical drive (CD/DVD).
Laptop hard drives jumpering is different to desktop hard drives.The default setting is no jumper and this sets it to master.
Look here for background information:
http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Pa...
http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6120753_c...

However, to answer your question;
1. Yes in fact as you do not need your CD/DVD drives for this exercise you can disconnect them both. However, I suggest that you disconnect the master CD/DVD and if necessary jumper the remaining CD/DVD to be slave instead of CS using the jumper at the back of the CD/DVD.

If you do not want to do that, then disconnect both CD/DVD drives and connect the hard drives to first IDE cable connector (i.e. the end one. Be sure to set your BIOS so that the master is set to hard drive and the slave is set to off. This is in a way better as you have the least number of unknown variables which is always a good point to start any trouble shooting exercise.

In either case be sure to set your BIOS to reflect your set up otherwise you will get error messages.

2. How can I change my bios setting to look for a hd rather than a cd/dvd drive other than what you suggested. In the setup screen, I only have the options of auto and off. If I set it to auto, it says unknown device.

It is saying unknown probably because your optical drive is set to Cable Select yet your hard drive is set to master. This is a conflicting set up and therefore unsurprisingly will not work.

The link below is to your manual on Dells website. So long as you have equipped your hard drive your BIOS will permit you to change the setting.
http://support.dell.com/support/edo...

If however, the only option is auto or off then set it to auto and if the hard drive is working it should detect it.

One other possibility you might want to consider is to invest in a USB laptop hard drive caddy. This allows you to use laptop hard drives externally as a USB hard drive. This is quite useful to have. You can get this very cheaply on eBay. Here is an example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-2-5-Lapto...

___________________________________________
When everything else fails, read the instructions.


Report •

#9
December 28, 2010 at 14:59:49
Thanks... I think the usb laptop hard drive caddy was what I was trying to buy at the computer store. I just didn't know what it was called.

If the computer is set at cable select and the hard drive is set to master, how do I resolve that conflict.

Can I change it to master on the cable?

Can I add jumpers to the hard drive to make it readable?

If I cant fix it today, i'll order the caddy but Im an obsessive nut and it will kill me to wait.

i


Report •

#10
December 28, 2010 at 15:12:50
The USB caddy come in two versions, IDE and SATA. you will need an IDE version.

If the computer is set at cable select and the hard drive is set to master, how do I resolve that conflict.
You have NOT read my response. cable select is NOT set in the computer. It is set on the IDE devices be they Hard Drives or Optical Drives (CD/DVD).

To keep it simple:
1. Remove both your Optical Drives (CD/DVD).
2. Connect you laptop Hard Drive using the adapter you have got.
3. Boot up your PC and go into your BIOS (F2 key as you are booting up)
4. Change the BIOS settings for your secondary drives as follows:

Secondary Drive 0 ................CD/DVD (Change this to Hard Drive or auto if the hard Drive option is not possible)
Secondary Drive 1 ................CD/DVD (Change this to off)

If the above does not work then try this. One of them should work, most likely the first option above:
Secondary Drive 0 ................CD/DVD (Change this to off)
Secondary Drive 1 ................CD/DVD (Change this to Hard Drive or auto if the hard Drive option is not possible)

___________________________________________
When everything else fails, read the instructions.


Report •

#11
December 28, 2010 at 15:20:22
What was wrong with the laptop that "died" ?
What was it that could you do, what was it that you could not do ? Were you getting messages ? Was the video working ?
The problem may have been a failing hard drive.

"Tubesandwires... There is no jumper on the laptop hd. I tried different power conectors and also tried turning it in case I did have it backwards. no luck... unknown device"

If you are connecting the adapter to the same data cable as the CD drive, you MUST set the CD drive jumper to SLAVE !
OR - don't connect another drive to the same data cable as the adapter is connected to.

If the female side of the adapter has one blocked pin hole, that will only plug into the pins in the laptop drive one way, in one place, in the right direction, because of a pin being missing in one place on the drive.

If the female side of the adapter DOES NOT have blocked pin hole, then that can be plugged into the laptop's pins the wrong way and in the wrong place. In that case, the female side of the adapter must plug into all the pins that have no additional space between them , with the end the adapter's power wires are coming from towards the side no pins on the drive are showing on when it's plugged in. .

If the connector on the desktop data cable has one blocked pin hole, the pins on the other side of the adapter will probably only plug in one way into the connector, because a pin is missing on that side of the adapter.

If the female connector on the desktop data cable has NO blocked pin holes, then the pins on the adapter can be plugged in either way into the female connector - in that case, it must plug in so that the end the adapter's power cable is connected to is on the opposite side from the stripe that's on one side of the data cable.

Your adapter / laptop drive probably must be connected to an 80 wire data cable on the desktop computer, not a 40 wire one.
An 80 wire data cable obviously has 80 wires, and always has at least two different colors of connectors, if not three, on a 3 connector data cable.
80 wire data cables must have the proper end connector connected to the mboard IDE header - usually that's blue, but in any case it's the one farther from the middle connector on a 3 connector data cable.


Report •

#12
December 28, 2010 at 16:15:34
Since you probably don't have the miniature jumpers for the laptop drive, just disconnect the other optical drive and see if it works with the laptop drive on channel 2.

Report •

Ask Question