1. Bashing Steve Gibson / Spinrite is not the point of this post. 2. Spinrite's HDD Speed Access Velocity tells me one partition is slower than the other. Isn't that important? 3. I asked for focus on the partition questions as these were not delt with yet initially beyond the opinion Xp should be on a 50GB partition. XP/Vista - I sincerely thank you for all your help. If you are offended in any way I am truely amazed, as I greatly appreciate your insights. Focusing on partition questions is what I need right now. When I asked you to do that you bowed out. I don't understand why. Best wishes. My Partition Questions: 1. Can I make the XP partition the C:\ partition? (It's now on a smaller G:\ partition). Do I need partition software? 2. Is it best to reformat / install XP fresh again vs rearranging partitions with partition software? 4. Do you advise partitions at all? 5. What partition software do you use with XP Pro / SP2? Saying "Thanks!!" - Shows Gratitude / Not Attitude.

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Weird thread! 2 partitions on the same hard drive shouldn't have significantly different access times - so I'd immediately question what spinrite is telling you. 20GB is absolutely fine for an XP installation - UNLESS you install so many apps that you run out of space. Never mind defrag - a very bad idea on ntfs anyway IMO (likely to cause problems, unlikely to improve performance) - windows doesn't like its system partition too full - starts objecting. Again only my opinion, but looking at figures out of 3rd party apps is a waste of time - unless you have had a running system that's slowed down, and you're trying to find out why. Dedicated disk for XP and another for data? (with the page file on data disk). But the real question - is there/was there anything actually wrong with your system - you haven't said.

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hi XPUser, "The 20GB you allocated for the operating system particularly XP is too small. It will inhibit Windows from being able to carry out optimal performance" have 2 small drives running here (15Gb and 8Gb) partitioned into 4 (2 on each drive). (haven't got that new WD 160Gber YET, that i posted about a few weeks back) on the 15Gber i have XPSP2 and all its updates installed on C:\......haven't moved swap-file, My Docs or Temp Int Files. the only other thing(s) apart from the above on C:\ is internet, security, some small progs that are installed to C:\ mandatorily, and some files belonging to programs (that are installed on D:\) that go on C:\ automatically. on that 15Gber, C:\ is partitioned to 10Gb - with Used at 5Gb and Free at 5Gb (D:\ partition on that Drive is 5 Gb capacity) the System is stable, it does all its maintenance easily, and has no trouble keeping up in speed terms. -------------------------- Liquid Fusion i agree with what XPUser suggested in your case - repartition to C:\ 50Gb (XP System) and then partition the other 70Gb into 1 or 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQuJnnQuPWM&mode=user&search= Rob, Central Coast NSW Australia

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Don't have any problems on my PC. Just concerned about Speed Access Velocity numbers between partitions on the C:\ G:\ partitions on the C:\drive being 4X apart: It seemed strange to have different numbers for different partitions on the same drive: 686k for the smaller G:\ 20GB XP partition and 2.4M for the larger C:\ partition. I do audio multi-track recording (96Hz 32bits) and defrag data files all the time (files are NTFS / and located on separate HDDs). When you say do not defrag, does this apply to the XP Partition only? Or to all NTFS data?

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Quote: "2 partitions on the same hard drive shouldn't have significantly different access times - so I'd immediately question what spinrite is telling you." Could this mean the HDD is going south? Quote: "i agree with what XPUser suggested in your case - repartition to C:\ 50Gb (XP System) and then partition the other 100Gb into 1 or 2." Repartition via Software or by reformat / partition / reinstall? If by Software - what do you use?

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"or by reformat / partition / reinstall?" backup all your important data first, boot with XP CD, repartition the way you decide, reload OS to C:\ "4. Do you advise partitions at all?" IMO partition is the way to go......defragging is easier/quicker, your system is more organised.....2 or 3 smaller "fileing cabinets" of data instead of one big one. having one partition on one drive with everything on it, defragging took me forever ! with the 4 smaller partitions defragging takes only a few minutes each partition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQuJnnQuPWM&mode=user&search= Rob, Central Coast NSW Australia

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This forum is great. Quote: "reload OS to C:\" How do I put XP PRO/SP2 on the primary partition? My experience: When I divided a 120GB HDD into 100GB and 20GB partitions, and put XP on the 20GB section, this smaller partition (P2) was not the primary (P1) partition. ///////////////////////////// Idea (to save reinstalling XPPro / Updates / Software): What about imaging the current 20GB XP partition and then putting this image on a different HDD (160GB) using partition software to position XP as a primary 50 GB partition? Can this be done? Acronis has "Migrate" software that I think can do this. ///////////////////////////// Note: using a different HDD, it would be interesting to see if Spinrite's Smart Monitor Speed Access Velocity again shows different or similar partition numbers.

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Partitions on the outer perimeter of the disk are "faster" than partitions created on the inner perimeters of the disk. The first partition created goes on the outer perimeter, succeeding partitions work inward towards the center of the disk. It's a good day when you learn something

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my 2 cents: if you're looking for a real performance boost, get yourself a 74 GB WD Raptor for your OS and software, and use the slower drive as storage drive.

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Looks like you've been going at this for a few days now .... LOL Either way, you probably need to re-evaluate your inquiry. I have never used SpinRite, but I've heard the name before. I rarely benchmark hard disks these days because I do not encounter relic HDDs in almost all the systems I fiddle or work on. When I do, it's typically HDTach or WinBench 99 V2.0. Unfortunately, a standard (albeit concise) benchmark for HDD performance is a moving target because of the many variables required for a clear-cut result. As we know, most HDD benchmark tools focus on two metrics, seek time & transfer rate but there's more to the picture like read/write speed; burst speed; access time; rotational latency & so forth. The goal is to go with a benchmark that fairly accurate & doesn't preclude so much at the expense of that accuracy. Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the guide for the SpinRite program & I could only assume the repeatedly mentioned "Speed Access Velocity" in your OP & subsequent responses most likely refers to the "Sector Access Velocity" in the guide, but correct me if I'm wrong. Furthermore, now that I think about it, *Speed Access Velocity* does not make much sense grammatically. Now with that out of the way, while you seem to be aware that transfer rate normally vary from the inside to the inside of any HDD, you might have gotten the faster area mixed up. This is because -- as far as sequential data transfer is concerned -- the fastest area of disk is on the outside & this data rate tapers off as you move from that outermost area to inner part of the HDD: contrary to your presumption. It has also been speculated that about a third of the outer area of the typical HDD holds around 50% of the disk's content. So, if seeking about a third way allows access to half a drive's data percent most of the time, the average seek time is potentially reduced, consequently allowing for more random I/O operations per second with enhance I/O time. http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.... http://keppanet.netfirms.com/keppan... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may...

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Liquid Fusion Quote: "reload OS to C:\" How do I put XP PRO/SP2 on the primary partition? My experience:....." when you boot with the XP CD, hit enter and you will go to the XP install menu. you can actually make a new clean install of XP (with partitions) - AFTER you have backed up your files - without manually formatting first. when you come to the install screen where it says "Create Partition" or "Delete Partitions" hit "Delete Partitions" go to each partition that is displayed and confirm "to delete that partition". do each partition. the data that exists there now will be erased in the process (or unreferenced). you will end up with a raw unformatted unpartitioned HDDrive. then select "Create New Partition". input (type) the number of Megabytes you want for the first partition - this will be your Primary System Drive C:\ >>> if you want a 40Gb drive C:\ (where WinXP will be loaded to) type in 40,000Mb. the install program will go ahead and do that, leaving you with 80,000Mb (80Gb) unpartitioned. Then go back to the "Create New Partition" screen and select "Create New Partition" - specify 80,000Megabytes. It will go ahead and do that. OR you can actually break that 80Gb Free Space into 2 or 3 more partitions. after you have done the above, you will end up with 2 partitions, using the whole drive capacity (except for 8Mb on each ???) - Primary Drive C: 40Gb where you specify to install Win XP to and Drive D: 80Gb that's it in a nutshell, as far as i can remember. i'm talking about XPHOME here, nooo idea of PRO (same setup ???)..... the important thing to remember is to backup your important data first, and specify to install the OS on Primary Drive C: (but i think that's automatic ???) :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQuJnnQuPWM&mode=user&search= Rob, Central Coast NSW Australia

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Delete both partitions, then create a single partition for your OS. That'll get your Windows partition as C:, on the outer edge of the disk. You can then partition the remainder of the drive from within Windows. This method removes the risk of Windows ending up on the wrong partition. For what it's worth, you have said this thread isn't for bashing Gibson/Spinrite, yet you seem obsessed with Spinrites results. Ignore Spinrite, it was designed for small drives running a DOS-based OS. Also, in your original post, you said you do audio/video work. If indeed, you intend to do much video editing and/or compositing, that drive is grossly undersized for your needs. One hour of DV-compressed video will give you a file around 12GB in size. It doesn't take long to fill a hard drive with files that large. Please let us know if you found someone's advice to be helpful.

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Quote: "Please let us know if you found someone's advice to be helpful." Just listening to all here to find the way to go. The posts here are solid and constructive. Quote: "Looks like you've been going at this for a few days now .... LOL" Right. Have lots to learn. Quote: "most likely refers to the "Sector Access Velocity" Right. I was seeing huge speed differences between P1 / 80GB primary partition,and inner 20GB P2. Quote: "as far as sequential data transfer is concerned -- the fastest area of disk is on the outside & this data rate tapers off as you move from that outermost area to inner part of the HDD" Very interesting. Now I know it. Thanks. Quote: "the important thing to remember is to backup your important data first, and specify to install the OS on Primary Drive C: (but i think that's automatic ???)" Somehow I screwed up and XP got placed on P2 instead of P1. I think I need to look for "Primary" partition during install. Quote: " You can then partition the remainder of the drive from within Windows. " How? What software do you do this with? Why? Quote: "you have said this thread isn't for bashing Gibson/Spinrite, yet you seem obsessed with Spinrites results." Mentioned different Sector Access Velocity results between the P2 and P12 of the same HDD to show severe warning signs something wasn't right. Spinrite 6.0 was showng data readings I would never otherwise in any other software see. Bottom line: Spoinrite was alerting me to be carefull about XP on that partition. I do also check seek / write times / burst and sustained data transfers as well. Spinrite's S.M.A.R.T. Monitor even shows ECC errors - if they jump up it again tells you something is wrong. Another warning indicator. Quote: " I do not encounter relic HDDs in almost all the systems I fiddle or work on." Right. Drives are ATA 133 7200 rpm EIDE HDD between: 5 and 9 years old. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Quote:" if you're looking for a real performance boost, get yourself a 74 GB WD Raptor for your OS and software, and use the slower drive as storage drive." IF / I add SATA - Adding SATA / PCI = 66mHz. I'd kill any advantage of the WD Raptor by be limited by a slow bus speed: 66MHz = UDAMA 4. Sustained data transfer of HDD on ATA PCI 133 card = 77M (avg) vs 5M for sustained transfer for HDD attached to MB. 10K DRIVE POSSIBLE ? Can I get a 10K STATA HDD to run at 133MHZ on the PCI bus? Searching Google, that is Sata II. Sata II drives are 3G/s vs Sata I = 1.5 /s which actually = 150 MB/S. ATA 133 UDMA6 = 133MB/s: there is not much difference between Sata I and PCI ATA 133. There is a difference between 7200 and 10000. Can I run SATA II 10K rpm HDD on a card with the ATA PCI 133 card also in my system? This way I can have a fast SATA drive and slower EIDE data drives. AUDIO / VIDEO Quote: "Also, in your original post, you said you do audio/video work. If indeed, you intend to do much video editing and/or compositing, that drive is grossly undersized for your needs." Good point. Video is on data drives other than the C:\ G:\ drives. (See drive list below). Internal drives are backed up by 750 GB Maxtor 4 Plus and Maxtor 250GB External drive. Internal HDDS - (2) 320GB 7200 rpm ATA 133 HDD (1) 160GB 7200 rpm ATA 133 HDD (1) 120GB 7200 rpm ATA 133 HDD All HDD run attached to ATA 133 EIDE PCI card / 133MHZ bus as UDMA 6 on an ancient Intel 820 board. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// MIGRATION ? What about using Acronis software to migrate the G:\ XP/SP2 partition to a second HDD? Then use the other HDD as the boot drive? I can delete data on a 160GB HDD (it's backed up to external HDD), delete the 160 GB partition, reinstall a new partition, transfer G:\ 20GB to a 60GB primary partition on the other HDD. Then use the remaining 100GB for data. The 120GB drive (data is all backed up as well) - I can delete the 20GB partition then use XP to create / merge all as one 120GB partition with data. How about that? Does it make sense? XP was recently reinstalled several weeks agao. It's fresh. I am no stranger to reinstalling XP. This time it would be great to miss that experience as the time to add in programs (Audio/video) can be several days. Q: Can XP on P2 be migrated to P1 on other HDD.....

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"Quote: " You can then partition the remainder of the drive from within Windows. " How? What software do you do this with? Why?" Right-click "My Computer", select "Manage", select "Disk Management". The only partition that needs to be present to setup Windows is your C: drive. From the Disk Management console, you can perform partitioning and formatting operations on any unused disk space. If you only have one partition prior to installing Windows, there can be no doubt as to which drive (partition) it's going to be on. "Quote: "Also, in your original post, you said you do audio/video work. If indeed, you intend to do much video editing and/or compositing, that drive is grossly undersized for your needs." Good point. Video is on data drives other than the C:\ G:\ drives. " Fair enough. I shouldn't have assumed only one drive. "Q: Can XP on P2 be migrated to P1 on other HDD." I haven't used the Acronis software, but I know Ghost can do partition to partition. I'd imagine Acronis has the same capability. Please let us know if you found someone's advice to be helpful.

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The only partition that needs to be present to setup Windows is your C: drive. So just make a 60 GB partition and install XP? From the Disk Management console, you can perform partitioning and formatting operations on any unused disk space. Then add a second larger partition? If you only have one partition prior to installing Windows, there can be no doubt as to which drive (partition) it's going to be on. I agree.

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Had to ask - Do you vote for Fresh XP Install as outlined above (Posts 17 + 20) or migrating existing XP partition to another only HDD primary partition? Note: after successfull migration, add a new / larger partition as explained above).

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I tremedously thank all who posted here!!! Eveyone here is great!!! I feel more secure in thinking about PC partitions and what to do. Now it's just how much effort must I endure - again. I realize I've just scratched the surface about partitions, but the importance of setting up XP on the primary opartition , and strategies of how to do so are nailed down. Thanks / Brewer Please vote: Fresh XP/SP2 Install / Migration...

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If the current installation is problem-free, migration would be much quicker than re-installation (OS + drivers + apps + tweaks, etc). Please let us know if you found someone's advice to be helpful.

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I still think you need a performance priority reassessment here, you seem to be focusing solely on the HDD, perhaps inadvertently, at the expense of everything else. Granted the OS as a host component needs to be as responsive as possible. In reality, the HDD by itself does not guarantee that. In any case, even with the strides made so far in conventional storage technology: the HDD remains the slowest component in a PC. Fortunately, the introduction of SSDs offer a glimmer of some much welcome hope as far as disk speed is concerned ;-) IMHO, you will get a noticeable boost in your multimedia computing on that system by simply adding more RAM than you would by moving partitions around .... but it's your call. Now if you have an insane amount of money to throw at the project & just want the fastest disk out there, my response would have been the HyperDrive4 & nothing else. Good luck!

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Interesting you mention ram - This site has a bios updates link. Just bought the bios upgrade that will allow 1G ram. Will increase ram to 1G from current 512MB. Don't want to go too crazy w/ this PC. Just want it in best config now, as I plan to buid a duo core later this year. Read my mind. Vey cool. Flash HDD for the OS. How long until the $$$ comes down?

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Here's a great Utility (Free) MaxBlast 5 (for Maxtor Drives) Migrates / clones / moves partitions..... http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j... Ultimate Boot CD (Free) http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

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Bios update doesn't apply to my computer. No 1GB ram for this MB. Running MaxBlast 5 / Acronis Disk Director / Migrate Easy / Ture Image - I'm concerned: Can I successfully clone / image the current XP/SP2 install on G:\, and transfer that to a partition (60GB) on a freshly formatted 160GB HDD? Will all programs still point correctly to XP on the new partition? Most likely XP on a new primary partition will have a NEW drive letter (Probalbbly "C:\" - as primary partitions have lowest letter. XP currently is onstalled on a non-primary partition. If I copy the primary boot files from C:\ will they work with XP from G:\ - all together on the new partition? I don't think so... Quote: "Delete both partitions, then create a single partition for your OS. That'll get your Windows partition as C:, on the outer edge of the disk. You can then partition the remainder of the drive from within Windows. This method removes the risk of Windows ending up on the wrong partition." I'm believing more in fresh XP install after formatting either the 120GB or the 160GB HDD. Have to decide the benefits of putting the primary partition on one vs the other. FWIW - Spinrite (6.0) S.M.A.R.T. Monitor says Sustained Transfer Rate (in DOS) for 120GB HDD = 56M vs 69M for the 160GB HDD. Right now concentrating on HDD as this MB won't allow changes with CPU / Ram. Putting XP/SP2 on non-primary partition was a mistake, but I never knew much before of partition speed, primary vs non-primary, and location on the disc (OS performance).

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Follow Up - Days later - Wiped the 160GB HDD Using Maxtor PowerMax 4.3 Performed: A) LowLevel Format B) BurnIn Test Results: Passed Installed XP into one 60GB partition as directed above. Not sure why it has to be so huge. I like to run XP only in its own partition with no data. Doing things as you do them to see what I'm missing. XP installed into Primary partition. Reason I say this - after install, I went to disk management and I was asked did I want the next (100GB) partition to be 1. Primary or 2. Extended? No-one mentioned this above. If they did, I missed it. Realized that I had earlier installed XP on a 20GB partition (in the 120GB HDD) as an extended partition. I know this because after installing XP on the 160 GB HDD, I went to the 120 HDD, to transfer the 100GB data off the larger partition. Before doing this TX, I deleted the 20GB OS partition - and discovered it was a LOGICAL partition (which is a derivative on an extended partition). Had XP been installed in the 120GB HDD on its 20GB partition as a Primary partition, then all files for that partition would have stayed on that partition and I wouldn't have seen boot files for XP on the larger partition, while OS files were on the smaller one. Now I know. Install partitions as primary partitions. This way you can truly have separate bootable OS completely independent of other partitions on the same drive. The reason I was seeing a 4X difference in Sector Access Velocity was possibly due to accessing data off an OS on a logical partition vs. accessing an OS off a primary partition. Formatted the 120GB HDD and did a BurnIn test: passed. The only reason I have these HDDs is because they are ATA 133 vs. ATA 100. Having the OS on the right partition makes life faster. I can only imagine what a more powerful PC would be like. That will happen sometime soon this year. Writing this so someone who does not know about partitions, might gain insight into how best to work with them. Just for fun, I'm interested in seeing if I can image XP on the 160HDD and transfer that to a new HDD w/o activation problems. Of course I would get rid of the XP on the 160GB HDD. Having XP run on different HDDS in the same PC seems to mess up software. Note: Maxtor One Touch 4Plus - could not click the HDD icon in My Computer to enter the external drive - until SP2 was installed!!! (On fresh XP, I could only right click the icon to enter the drive.)

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Extra Info: Lowlevel Formatting HDDs lowerd temp on two drives (120GB and 160GB) to 22 Cent and the other 2 HDDs (Both 320GB) to 31 cent. Furthermore: if you need to change dynamic discs back to basic in XP - it can be done. Free. http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Test... Detailed How To w/Screenshots http://mypkb.wordpress.com/2007/03/...

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