Tom's Guide | Tom's Hardware | Tom's Games
 |
 |
 |
Hi all:
I've been having issues the past couple of weeks with my WinXP SP2 PC, which may be attributable to several things, including the RAM (I re-seated it), my AGP card (which I've had for about 8 mos. and which has had problems since Day 1), my CPU running a bit warm lately (I have my MB's alarm set to alert me well before the shutdown temp, but the weather's been warm and humid here recently), or maybe even because of the Anti-Virus software (Norton 2004).
I am a small-biz Web Designer, and this is both my work and play PC. I run a lot of applications, including Apache 2 Server, PHP, MySQL, graphics software etc., that the average home user doesn't, so I've learned to expect a certain amount of bugs and glitches. I have, about once per year, since I built it in 2003/2004, had to wipe the C drive and reinstall Windows XP from scratch -- after the performance got progressively slower and "glitchier" until I eventually had a major crash -- and each time it ran fast and clean for a couple months afterwards.
I have a backup HD for all my archived data, and I've kept it maintained and have always been able to use it restore my data on my C drive -- until now. I had my CPU alarm go off last night while watching a video on a Web site, and I shut down immediately (actually, it took an agonizing 3 minutes or so while XP was "Saving Your Settings" and then "Shutting Down"). I thought I'd give everything time to cool off, just to be safe, and when I booted up later, WinXP no longer detected my second HD. It's detected during POST just fine, but does not appear in My Computer once Windows boots, and none of my links and shortcuts to it are accessible. I also had Windows crash on me and tell me that it couldn't start because of a missing Config file. This is what usually precedes my having to reinstall. I did a repair just so I could back up my C drive data and settings, which I did successfully.
I was in the midst of backing up data from my second HD last week onto CD-RW, but had to put it off because I was getting alarms while my CD drive was burning and had to keep shutting down. I had been able to access my data at other times without any trouble, though. I checked all the fans, made sure the vents were clean, etc., in addition to re-seating the RAM, and I haven't gotten any alarms since.
I have a lot of family photos and other data that I have yet to back up, and I really need to figure out why Windows is not seeing my 2nd HD any longer. I'm hoping and praying that the drive is recoverable and that my data didn't somehow get corrupted in the crash. Like most of my components, the HD is only about 3 years old.
BTW, I use removable drive bays, so I've tried removing the HD and then reconnecting it, but while BIOS detects the HD being removed and then being re-attached, Windows still no longer sees it at all.
Please help! Thanks!
Wabbitt124
First off check to see the drive is still configured in the BIOS. Then watch the POST screens at startup to verify the drive is properly identified. If the drive doesn't show in these places it won't show in Windows. If not showing, check the cable connections. Your overheating isn't due to a crapped up Windows configuration. If you system and CPU temps are good at some point and then get higher you need to clean out the case and HS/fan with compressed air. Canned air is widely available. One other thing I would recommend. Next time you re-install your OS, install it on a separate partition/ drive. Then create an image of that partition/ drive. If the time comes to re-install, you will be happy you did that. There are a number of imaging programs available. I personally use Ghost. Newer versions of Ghost can create an image to most any location you have accessable from your computer. I burn my images to DVDR.
"BTW, I use removable drive bays". Are these hot swappable bays? Are you hot swapping them? You may need to retake ownership of the lost drive. Have you looked to see if the drive is shown under storage management?
0 
Hi, OtheHill:
"First off check to see the drive is still configured in the BIOS. Then watch the POST screens at startup to verify the drive is properly identified."
Yes, my HD is ID'd properly in BIOS (set to auto-detect) and at POST. It doesn't show up in XP in My Computer, but it *does* show up in Device Manager, which says it's "working properly." (Can't figure that one.)
"If you system and CPU temps are good at some point and then get higher you need to clean out the case and HS/fan with compressed air."
I'd actually cleaned my case and components fairly recently (within the last 2 weeks), and when I opened the case to check and re-seat the RAM modules two days ago, I checked to make sure that everything was still clean, which it was. One of my 2 3-inch case fans had stopped, but I disconnected it from the PS and reconnected it and it fired up again just fine. All my fans are running and the airflow is good. My case is a big Antec server tower, too, with lots of room, lots of fans and a 400W PS, so overheating has not been a problem until just very recently. I made a point to start keeping the ambient temp lower in the room where I work as of yesterday, so I'm sure that hasn't hurt, either -- no alarms within the last couple of days.
"Next time you re-install your OS, install it on a separate partition/ drive."
I have XP installed on my C Drive, a 40GB Maxtor EIDE 5400 / 2MB / ATA-100 HD, and I keep all my data and program downloads on the 2nd HD (Drive "G"), which is an identical 40GM Maxtor. I have PartitionMagic / BootMagic installed, because I was originally going to have a dual-boot setup, with [cough] my old Windows '95 setup. I recently started backing things up to CD, because I did have an instance after one of the lockups (a stop error apparently related to my crappy PNY AGP card) where I could not access one particular folder on my G Drive (after running XP ScanDisk a few times I was finally able to access the folder again). So, I got worried and started burning things to CD, but kept having overheating problems, AGP card lockups, etc. and had to stop for a while. This has also been putting me behind in my work, so the last few days I was trying to catch up, and I guess I should have started backing up again once things were (temporarily) working again. (My own stupidity.)
"Then create an image of that partition/ drive. If the time comes to re-install, you will be happy you did that. There are a number of imaging programs available. I personally use Ghost."
You're right, I really should make point to learn Ghost and use it. I just need to get off my lazy butt and look into it. It probably would save me some time. I don't have a DVD-R/W, just a CD-R/W, but that is on my wish list.
(drive bays) "Are these hot swappable bays? Are you hot swapping them?"
No, they aren't hot-swappable; I have to completely power down to remove / reconnect them and then reboot, and there is no monitoring software or utility that comes with them. I don't have a RAID config or anything like that. I've just always liked the removable bays because, in the event of an emergency (e.g., fire, flood, hurricane, etc.), I could pop my HDs out and take them with me.
One thing that happened when I tried reconnecting the G Drive after I "repaired" XP after the corrupted / missing config file error (it's a "gimped" repair which is just getting me by at the moment, and I'm likely going to have to do a full re-install ... again) I got a scan disk screen before XP started, which said it need to check my disk for errors. The weird thing is is *said* it was checking my C Drive, but the files I saw it scanning were ones I know to be only on my G Drive. It said something like it was recovering orphaned files, and it went through a few hundred of them. I have about 22GB of data stored on my G Drive, so I know it didn't go through them all. But that apparently didn't fix the problem, because it didn't change the "undetected" status in XP one iota. I just hope it didn't further corrupt or damage anything.
It's seems to me to be something with files system. I think I'm probably going to need some kind of a data recovery utility. Can you or anyone else suggest a good one? I'm checking Seagate's / Maxtor's site right now.
Thanks!
Wabbitt124
0
As I stated above all you need to do is take ownership of that drive. Go to start> help and support and type in "ownership". The help files will expain how to do that. Because you removed the drive WinXP no longer thinks you have rights to the drive.
0
Hmmm...
Well, unfortunately that didn't work because Drive G is not even listed with the other drives in Explorer. I tried getting ownership of one of the shortcuts to a folder on my G Drive, but instead I got a dialog box saying it was "unavailable", and to check my drive connection, etc., etc.
So, I'm unsure what to try next. Maybe I'll run PartitionMagic and see if it detects any valid file system on my HD. Other than that...? I don't want to do anything that might potentially damage (or *further* damage) my data if it is still reasonably intact, so I'm afraid to tinker *too* much.
In any case, I really appreciate your help. If you think of anything else, please let me know. I really need to get to my files, so I'm willing to try just about anything at this point!
Thanks!
Wabbitt124
0
"It doesn't show up in XP in My Computer, but it *does* show up in Device Manager, which says it's "working properly." Right click My Computer> Manage> Storage> Disk Managment. Is the drive shown there? If so, take ownership. If not, you may be able to use a Live CD of Linux like Knoppix to copy the files. Or someone else may be able to assist in restoring the file system.
0
No, the drive isn't there. (It figures.) It shows my physical C drive with the 38GB NTFS partition for XP and the 39MB FAT32 (BootMagic) partition. All my removable media drives (floppy, Zip, CD) show up, too. But no physical G Drive.
I tried installing PartitionMagic which would have given me essentially the same info as Computer Management, but since I have only a intermediate knowledge of XP, I didn't know about CM. When I tried to run PM, I got an error message saying, "Init failed: Error 100. Partition table is bad." Computer Management says the C Drive partitions are healthy, though. So, I don't know what partition table PM is referring to, exactly, unless it actually *is* the G drive and it's just neglecting to be specific in the error message.
I'm not familiar with Knoppix. Years ago I got pretty good with Red Hat, but I haven't dealt with any breed of Linux in so long that it would be like learning it all over again. Would a Linux OS be able to read NTFS files?
I think file system restoration is what this is boiling down to. If anyone knows of a good utility that I might be able to run outside of XP, I'm open to suggestions. I simply do not have the budget to pay someone else to do it, and due to privacy concerns, I would really prefer to do it myself, anyway.
I was researching CNET and TigerDirect earlier to see what they were marketing in terms of data recovery utilities. Many of Tiger's DRU products don't even have reviews, so I'm not sure what to buy, there. And the only sort of relevant listing on CNET was more of a utility for safeguarding your system in the first place, not fixing things after the fact.
I Googled "data recovery" and found several sites, including a "do-it-yourself" one called ZAR [www.z-a-recovery.com]. Is anyone familiar with this? And are there any that I should avoid like the plague? I'm not familiar enough with what's out there to know better. The last thing I need is to end up installing malware while trying to fix my data. :-P
Thanks again for your help!
Wabbitt124
0
Not much of a learning curve for what you need to do.
Did you have XP installed on both of those drives? Knoppix is a version of Linux that boots and runs from a CD. It does however need to install a small amount of files in order to access the hardware. Be sure to install them to the working drive. It is capable of utilizing most, if not all of your harware configurataions, including network and USB. Knoppix is a large freeware download that is around 700MB. Google for it. Knoppix does have a module that CAN work with NTFS partitions. If the drive is physically and electronically OK Knoppix should be able to access the files.
0
"Not much of a learning curve for what you need to do."
Well, I'd probably have more time to browse around XP and get really familiar with *every* function, but I get so tied up trying to stay current with the applications side of PC'ing that it's almost a full-time job, itself. By the time I learn enough to confidently go in and do some of the more "dangerous" stuff, MS comes out with a new OS! (Insert expletive here.) I'm pretty good with the physical nuts and bolts of a PC (I've built several for myself and for others) but when it comes down to the OS, I could probably spend a couple weeks on it and still have only scratched the surface. (And I'm not touching Vista for *at least* a year!)
"Did you have XP installed on both of those drives?"
No, I only had XP on the (master) C Drive. My (slave) G Drive was strictly for archiving my data, but it was NTFS, same as the XP partition on C.
Well, I have some sort-of good news. On Seagate's Web site I found a freeware version of a utility called File Recovery for Windows that checks to see if files can be recovered. The catch, of course, is if they *are* recoverable, you then pay $129.00 USD for the software key to make if fully functional.
I thought, why not just try it and see? So I downloaded and ran the freeware. It was taking a while, so I went off to dinner and came back a couple hours later. It had found my G Drive, and it would appear that all my files and folders are there. (So it must have been my file system that got tweaked during that last crash.) Now I just need to recover them. The free demo lets you recover files up to 64K in size (that's each, not total), so I tested it with a couple of small, non-crucial JPEGs ... and it worked!
So now that I know the files themselves seem to be intact, I'm looking for another way to recover them without having to shell out $130. I mean, really, that's the price of a new HD -- which I may end up needing after all is said and done, and I'm on a spaghetti string budget as it is. I'm not positive it was HD itself, though. I really believe XP corrupted my NTFS when *it* crashed, whether that was due to system overheating, or my cranky AGP card kicking out another error, or whatever. But, I'm going to check the drive over thoroughly once I get all my data off of it, no matter what.
........
OK, I was just reading up about Knoppix's system recovery capabilities in an article on IBM's Web site, and it seems like this might be the way to go. So, theoretically, if I download Knoppix and burn it to a CD for boot-up, where do I install the files for accessing the hardware? Would these need to go on a separate partition, or can they go in the root of C? The article doesn't go into those particular details.
BTW, I hope I'm not asking too many questions. I'm just desperate to get this done ASAP, because it's holding me up from getting actual work done, and I don't really have time to learn another OS at the moment. (I wish I did.)
Again, I really appreciate you taking time to help me out. :)
Thanks!
Wabbitt124
0
Just let Knoppix install where it wants to on the OS drive. Just DON'T write to the corrupted drive. Knoppix is a graphical interface and works much the same as Windows. You will need to decide WHERE to COPY the files to. Notice I used the word COPY, not CUT. I recommend using copy because if something goes wrong you won't lose the only file you have. The downside is that you need to keep track of what you copied so you don't copy the same file multiple times. That point is at your descretion.
DLoad the Knoppix file, instructions are included. create the CD as instructed. Set your boot order to boot to CD before HDrive. Depending on how much room you have on your primary drive you could make a temp folder there and copy some files, burn to optical, then copy more. USB external drives and network drives should also work. I don't know if you can copy directly to the burner, as the burner software is installed in Windows.
0
I DL'd the Knoppix files overnight last night -- I have DSL and it still took 7 hours. I was going to burn it to a CD after a meeting I had this morning, but I had to shut down and unplug my PC soon after I got home because of a severe electrical storm we had coming through, and lucky that I did, too, because we took a power hit (I'm still saving up to get a UPS). When I plugged everything back in and booted up again, I *of course* got an error message saying Windows could not start because my config file was "corrupt or missing, blah, blah, blah..." (deja vu from 2 days ago). So I tried, *again*, to do a reinstall/repair of XP, but during the process, I got an error msg. saying that my C drive was corrupt and could not be repaired. Fantastic! (So much for the 7-hour download of Knoppix!) Luckily I had backed up my other newer data files from my C drive to CD the day before.
I dug out a spare 8GB HD that I was considering installing Knoppix on anyway, swapped it with my 40GB C drive, and did a fresh install of XP on it, which is what I'm using now. I'm in the process of reloading all my drivers and essential applications.
It seems far too coincidental that I would be having problems with both HDs, so I'm wondering if maybe my MB's IDE controller is going out. (What next?) I'm not completely sure what's a cause and what's a symptom of the errors at this point. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if the XP install on the 8GB HD holds up, and if *it* gets corrupted, then I'm going to start looking at the MB and the RAM. At least I haven't had any more apparent heat-related problems [knocking on wood].
So that's where it stands for the moment. Until I get this latest problem diagnosed and fixed, I can't really even move on to recovering my files on the G drive. But I'll post again when I'm at that point.
Thanks again!
Wabbitt124
0
A UPS might help if it is also a line conditioner. Your household voltages may be fluctuating. If you shut down the computer but left it plugged in it is this vulnerable.
As far as using an 8GB temp drive I think that would work OK but not totally sure. You do understand that you need to burn Knoppix to a CD? If you don't have another computer with a CD burner you will need to fix your WinXP installation. You may want to install WinXP on the 8GB in order to use your burner. You are not overclocking your computer are you?
0
"A UPS might help if it is also a line conditioner. Your household voltages may be fluctuating."
Could be. I live in a very small town, and our voltages are weird anyway. A UPS is definitely on my wish list.
"If you shut down the computer but left it plugged in it is this vulnerable."
Actually, I switch it off at my desktop power surge protector, which uses heavy-duty toggle switches that cut the power completely (not even low-voltage standby power to the ATX PS), so it's the same as unplugging it. I disconnect my phone line from the DSL modem, too. Even with my surge protector, I'm paranoid. We periodically get some real nasty T-storms with deadly cloud-to-ground lightning, and I saw the city utility crews driving around after the one this morning. If I'm home and a T-storm is coming, I disconnect, completely. I think there should be a slogan for electronics like they have for flash flood warnings. Instead of "Turn around, don't drown" it could be "Unhook it, don't cook it." (Yes, I made that up myself.) ;)
"You do understand that you need to burn Knoppix to a CD?"
Yes. Unfortunately, I didn't get that far before I had to "unhook" for the storm and never got a chance to burn the Knoppix install files from my desktop to a CD. When I started my system up again, Windows was shredded ... again.
"If you don't have another computer with a CD burner you will need to fix your WinXP installation. You may want to install WinXP on the 8GB in order to use your burner."
That's where I am right now: running XP off of the 8GB drive. I'm going to have to download the Knoppix files again and burn them to a CD. (Barring any *further* complications, that is.)
"You are not overclocking your computer are you?"
No way! I wouldn't take the chance. If it was a gaming PC and I had $$ to burn (which I don't) I might play with overclocking, but I just set it according to specs (it's the max CPU for my MB anyway). It's my work PC, and it's plenty fast for me (*when* it works), even for a 32-bit CPU.
Starting Knoppix download ... now.
Wabbitt124
0
Just one comment. A voltage surge from a close lightning strike can jump over the switch in the power strip. Best to completely unplug any electrical equipment when there is a bad storm.
0
"Best to completely unplug any electrical equipment when there is a bad storm."
Sometimes I do that, as well. But usually, I turn off the redundant switches, including the individual and the master switch on the power center (which has lightning protection, but I switch off anyway) and even on the PSU, so the arc would have to jump across several "off" switches. (BTW, during that T-storm we had here yesterday a.m., a house a few blocks over got stuck by lightning and burned up!)
Anyway, I should let you know (and anyone else reading this thread for reference) that, after another storm came through today, and I switched off/unplugged everything for a few hours, I went back, and sure enough, I was getting an HD error -- with the 8GB HD! I rebooted because, frankly, I just didn't believe it. It came up then, but the video started acting really wiggy, and I was getting reports of file corruption, etc. I started thinking, then, how this was looking like more and more like a *power* issue, and after researching a little further, I've come to the conclusion that it must be my PSU going out. All the errors I've been getting, the AGP card errors, the overheating, the HD and file corruption errors, you name it ... it all fits. So I've ordered a new PSU which should arrive next week (I refuse to pay double the price at Best Buy, so I'm willing to wait a few days to receive it in order to get a better deal from TigerDirect).
I'll still need to deal with the file recovery on my archive HD, but, hopefully my PC components didn't get damaged from the PSU failure and I'll eventually be able to restore everything. I did manage to get Knoppix downloaded and burned to CD for when I'm ready to try that, so ... thanks for the advice.
I'll be sure to post again and let you and anyone else reading know how it turns out.
Thanks again!
Wabbitt124
0
If you already bought one from Tiger it is too late this time, but there are dozens of online vendors that are better and cheaper than them. Hope you ordered a quality unit.
0
"If you already bought one from Tiger it is too late this time, but there are dozens of online vendors that are better and cheaper than them."
Actually, I've been very satisfied with Tiger's prices and service, and I've been dealing with them for many years. (Unfortunately, we don't have Fry's Electronics within *reasonable* driving distance where I live -- South Central Texas -- or that would be my first choice. Even though they have a site, I still prefer to use Tiger for online purchasing.) I researched the unit I was getting on other sites, as well, and the price was indentical or comparable.
"Hope you ordered a quality unit."
I got a ThermalTake TR2 430W. I've had good experiences with ThermalTake products, and I think this should be more than adequate until I upgrade my MB/CPU/RAM in the next couple of years, at which point I'll probably go with at least a 600W PSU. Then I'll probably keep it as a backup or use it as a testing unit. My current PSU is the original that came with the Antec server case, and I've given it a pretty good workout, so I guess it was just it's time to go. Really, it's probably the cheapest solution I could have hoped for.
Wabbitt124
0
"Take a look at Newegg.com for pricing."
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep them in mind for future reference -- which, as it turns out, is likely going to be the *very near* future.
It's been about a week since I posted, and I got the PSU yesterday, so I thought I'd check in. Unfortunately the PSU didn't solve the problem like I was hoping.
After installing the new PSU, I tried booting to my 8GB HD, and I got a non-bootable disk error right off, which I figured was just a residual problem from before. Well, I had to leave it for the time being and get some of my work done on a borrowed PC. I came back later, powered up and, after Scandisk ran and repaired some errors on the drive, it booted into XP -- albeit, very slowly. Then I noticed my HD light on my case was staying on even when my HD light on my C drive bay was off. So I tried disconnecting the other IDE devices, swapping cables, etc. -- long story short, it appeared my ZIP drive might be going out. Well, it's about 10 years old and I don't use it that often anymore anyway so, I figured, no big loss. I tried booting without it, and XP came up in a flash with no errors, time after time. With *that* issue addressed, I dared to hope I'd be able to reformat my original 40GB C drive, reinstall XP, and get going again. So I shut down, swapped C drives, and booted to the XP setup CD.
Well, now the @#$%&*! 40GB C drive is not working! (Just a recap: this is in addition to the original HD problem with my 40GB *data* drive, which is an identical Maxtor, same model and all, and which I purchased at the exact same time. And I've always had good experiences with Maxtor. Until now.) When I tried to reformat the C drive, I got the message that there was no disk detected in my drive. When I boot up, BIOS lists the HD as a Maxtor with the correct model number in the initial IDE list, but if I go into setup and refresh the auto-detect, it gives the HD's size as "0 capacity" and then the HD drive brand is listed as "Noneor" (None or?) plus the Maxtor model number.
I don't know if this is a coincidential double HD failure, or a problem with the MB/CPU/RAM, something else, maybe the old PSU *did* damage my system, or a combination of *any* of these. I have gotten the 8GB HD to work (for the time being) but I don't feel I can rely on my system for anything critical -- like recovering my data from the *other* 40GB HD -- until I diagnose the actual cause of these hardware failures, if that's even possible. Plus, 8GB is not much to work with, and this drive is about twice as old as the other two. And, because my MB/CPU/RAM combo is a little over 3 years old, about the only thing I could even find a replacement for at this point is the RAM.
So ... it looks like I may be in for an unplanned upgrade. Awesome. (@#$%&*!)
Anyway, that's the latest. So much for an "easy" fix. :-P
Wabbitt124
0
I feel for you. I am going though the same thing with a friend's rig. Bad cap on the MBoard then I found the 40GB drive was only showing as 33GB in the BIOS. Tried to diagnose using disk tools for the drive and eventually the rig wouldn't POST with the drive connected. Meantime my burner goes out on my main rig. Been playing with computers far too much the last few days.
You can't beat Newegg for price and service. The only time I buy elsewhere is if Newegg doesn't have it. Don't like thier policy on LCD displays though.
0
-------------
Been playing with computers far too much the last few days.
-------------Gremlins must be on the loose. :-P
Wabbitt124
0  |
 |
 |
This post is quite old and has been locked from receiving new replies. Please create a new posting instead.
| Ads by Google |
