Troubleshooting failed boot XP

Dell / D600/E6400
December 22, 2008 at 09:07:45
Specs: Pentium 1.4 gh/512 M, Pentium 1.4 gh/512 M
Sorry forum, I messed up the previous post, hopefully this will go well..

I have a new dell E6400 laptop to replace that old D600. The 600 uses a ATA drive and the 6400 is a SATA drive. Using acronis I made an image of the 6400 HD using a Rocketfish USB/eSATA hard drive enclosure and saved it. Then I cloned my ATA hd to the SATA hd to avoid having to set up my computer again as it will take me several days to get the new one loaded with all of my hardware and to look and feel as the old one. After cloning I was able to access the SATA hd via the rocketfish but cant boot to it while in the rocketfish enclosure. I copied all the new laptop drivers to the SATA hd thinking all I need is to boot the SATA with the ATA image in the laptop and then install the drivers from the new laptop and be done... Well, it did not work that way. It fails to completely boot. I tried safe mode and see how all of the winnt/system32/drivers/whateverdriver load. I paid attention to the last driver to load in the screen (the video driver) and renamed that one (using rocketfish) then went back and still no boot. Some error shows but it goes so quick I cant read it. I tried to boot with the log option but I have no idea where that log goes and if it will show the error. Anyone can tell me how to boot, what option to use so I can see where the fail point is? I can put the original image back in the SATA and it works so I dont think is acronis or a problem with the rocketfish addapter. Any guidance will be appreciate it. I really hate to think that my only option will be to load all of my programs and set up the new pc manually... It will be a nightmare!!!


See More: Troubleshooting failed boot XP

Report •


#1
December 22, 2008 at 11:03:14
Sorry Nandy! You cannot do what you are trying to do.

You cannot clone a HD from one system to another and have it work, especially with laptops!

You have to byte the bullet and set up your new system. The following might help:

Step-by-Step Guide to Migrating Files and Settings
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...

Note that files and settings can be migrated but not 'programs', they will have to be installed.

I'm glad that you have Acronis, don't forget to use it for backup once you have your system the way you want it.


Report •

#2
December 22, 2008 at 11:21:01
You may need to connect the external drive to a different USB port.
See response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

In addition........
External hard drives cannot get enough power (current) from one USB port.
3 1/2" drives in an external enclosure require an external power adapter be connected to the external case.
2 1/2" hard drives in an external enclosure require TWO cables with TWO USB connections on the computer end, one cable only needs two wires for 5v power, or the cable that needs only two wires can be connected to a an external power adapter meant for supplying up to 500ma at 5v, such as one with a USB port for powering an MP3 player.

If you want to be able to boot an operating system from a USB connected external drive, you must have the ability in the bios settings to be able to have a USB connected drive listed before any internal hard drive(s) in the boot order.

If the hard drive you copied had Windows installed on it when it was connected to a different mboard, if the mboard in the present laptop is more than a little different, XP will often not boot into Windows - what you typically see is the first bit of Windows graphics, then a black screen, blinking cursor top left, and nothing further happens.
Is that what you're seeing?

If you want to be able to use the copy of the existing Windows installation on the hard drive on the present laptop, if Windows was installed from a regular Windows CD on the other computer, you can run a Repair "install" procedure, instead of a regular Windows Setup, and not lose any of the data you added after Windows was installed.
However, I don't know if that option is available if the hard drive still had the original Dell software installation still on it, and you may need a regular Windows CD in order to run it in any case.

If you DO have that option to do a Repair "install", the SECOND time you are asked if you want the Repair Windows ("Repair your existing Windows installation", or similar), then you will need to do a few other things after Setup has finished - you will need to re-register some Microsoft Windows Update related files before Windows update will work properly, and you may need to re-install some Windows Updates

Many call the second Repair choice a Repair "install" of Windows, but I think it's more properly called a Repair Setup procedure, because what is does is run Setup again without deleting the contents of the partition Windows was installed on.

How to do an XP Repair Setup, step by step:
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/win...
......

If the hard drive still had the original Dell software installation still on it, you will NOT be able to use a Recovery CD or a Recovery CD set made for the other computer model on the computer you have the hard in or connected to now, if they are not identical or in a small group of allowed models - the Recovery program will quit when it finds the mboard, or some other requirement, is different.
.....

When you run the Repair "install" (Repair Setup) procedure, Setup may not find the SATA hard drive, depending on settings in your bios Setup. If that happens, look in the bios settings and set the SATA drive detection/controller to IDE compatible mode or similar, then run Setup again and Setup will find the SATA drive.


Report •

#3
December 22, 2008 at 12:08:01
"If the hard drive you copied had Windows installed on it when it was connected to a different mboard, if the mboard in the present laptop is more than a little different, XP will often not boot into Windows - what you typically see is the first bit of Windows graphics, then a black screen, blinking cursor top left, and nothing further happens.
Is that what you're seeing?"

What I see is similar to what you describe, but the computer restart. If I select to boot into safe mode I can see the drivers loading too, then after the video driver is loaded it takes a few seconds the restart. If I put the serial drive in the usb port it will boot with no problem, but it will do the same as if the hd is in the laptop.
I dont have the install program for it. This is a corporate machine and they use a approve image to burn to the HD. My IT group allows me to do my own thing, but they wont move away from company guidelines when installing software and such so they are not doing what I want if I give them the laptop.

There should be a file that I could change, edit or delete the previous MB info. I could do that in Windows SE. Of course, I know this is not SE...


Report •

Related Solutions

#4
December 22, 2008 at 12:11:55
You'll probably have to boot with your drive installed and run a Windows Repair.

"So won’t you give this man his wings
What a shame
To have to beg you to see
We’re not all the same
What a shame" - Shinedown


Report •

#5
December 22, 2008 at 16:22:32
A windows repair would have a chance of fixing your system, but from what I know Dell systems do not have that option.

Report •

#6
December 23, 2008 at 00:07:12
"What I see is similar to what you describe, but the computer restart.If I select to boot into safe mode I can see the drivers loading too, then after the video driver is loaded it takes a few seconds the restart."

If it's actually doing that, it should not restart on it's own - it should just sit there doing nothing at that point.
That probably indicates the computer is having problems reading it's ram.

Have you changed which ram is installed since the computer last worked properly?
If you HAVE, it may not be 100% compatible with the mboard's main chipset. If you have the ram that was in it before, remove the new ram, install the old.

In any case...
A common thing that can happen with ram, even ram that worked fine previously, is the ram has, or has developed, a poor connection in it's slot(s).
This usually happens a long time after the ram was installed, but it can happen with new ram, or after moving the computer case from one place to another, and I've had even new modules that needed to have their contacts cleaned.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

For a laptop, you must remove both its main battery and AC adapter before you do that.

"If I put the serial drive in the usb port it will boot with no problem, but it will do the same as if the hd is in the laptop."

That's clear as mud!

"There should be a file that I could change, edit or delete the previous MB info."

That's not possible - at least, I've never heard of or come across any way of doing that.
Also, the partitions(s) would have to be partitioned FAT32 in order for you to be able to read the data in 98SE - if C is larger than 32gb it's partitioned NTFS in XP itself.
If you cure the problem of the computer restarting for no reason, you MIGHT have the option of a Repair "install" procedure; if you don't, see response 1, or talk to your own IT guys.


Report •

#7
December 23, 2008 at 05:26:30
You can indeed do a Repair on a Dell System using the Recovery/Reinstllation CD. It's one of the options. :)

"So won’t you give this man his wings
What a shame
To have to beg you to see
We’re not all the same
What a shame" - Shinedown


Report •

#8
December 23, 2008 at 09:35:46
Thanks for the correction Jennifer.
I had previously checked the Dell web site and the only procedure I could find was a restore to the way it came from the factory. Can you refer me to a place where it shows how to do a repair or non-destructive restore? It might help Nandy also.

Report •

#9
December 23, 2008 at 09:39:37
As this is SATA replacing an ATA drive... presumably he will (still) have to provide the SATA driver(s) during the repair routine? I ask 'cos ain't yet played "wiv a SATA" (and Satrys ain't my style...).

Done the repair routines using standard XP CD etc.; but I was under the impression that a repair using the usual (these days) recovery set of disks isn't quite the same as the using standard/full or upgrade XP CD? Those dreaded recovery disks tending more to set things back to delivery state; and thus lose anything dun after delivery - including wiping out data areas too?


Report •

#10
December 23, 2008 at 11:25:28
Jennifer's info is useful - but only if the data already on the hard drive, or to be put on the hard drive by a Restore CD set, is that meant to go with the laptop model's original Dell software installation.

You cannot use the single Dell Recovery CD, or Recovery CD set, meant for one laptop on another one, unless the model is the same or in a small group of allowed models made about the same time. Similarly, Nandy can't use the Recovery CD, or a Recovery CD set, meant for the hard drive when it was on the D600, OR the Recovery CD, or a Recovery CD set, meant for the E6400's original software installation, when the hard drive on the E6400 has the same data on it as it had when it was on the D600.
Nandy has already said he tried a Recovery CD and the Recovery program will not load.

If the abilty to run a Repair "install" (Repair Setup) procedure is there, that should be apparent when he tries booting the computer with a regular Windows CD, preferably of the same version that is on the hard drive.
However, the bios must have the SATA controllers or SATA drive detection in IDE compatible mode or similar so that the Windows CD/Setup can find the SATA drive - otherwise, he needs to make a slipstreamed CD with the SATA controller drivers integrated into the Windows data contents, or press F6 near the beginning of loading files from the CD and use a floppy disk with the proper SATA controller drivers on it in one of a very few USB connected floppy drives XP recognizes.

I have tried using a regular Windows CD on only one brand name system computer that still had it's original software installation on it, sort of - a HP or Compaq that had it's original data altered by someone installing XP Pro on the second partition. In that case, the second Repair option you need to run a Repair "install" procedure was not there. I have been told by some others who answer regularly on this site it should have been there, had the data not been damaged.


Report •

#11
December 23, 2008 at 13:37:17
Very usefull information Tubesandwires!

Report •

#12
December 23, 2008 at 14:27:25
I have successfully run a repair routine via a standard XP CD on a system that had an existing branded installation... This was on an Acer laptop.

Initially I tried it with a version of XP-sp1 (CD) while the installation was actually sp2. The XP-sp1 CD setup etc. failed to find the sp-2 installation - thus no repair option proffered...

But... when I used an sp-2 CD... the repair option was there as the sp-2 version (CD) found the installed sp-2...; the repair was then possible, and likewise it was possible to upgrade a Home version to Pro...

Conclusion (as mooted in effect in post10 by "Tubes...." is that the XP CD must be the same sp as the installation, otherwise no joy.


Report •

#13
December 23, 2008 at 15:03:42
More very good information, thanks Trvlr.

Report •

#14
December 23, 2008 at 16:46:35
Please allow me to clarify a few misconceptions from my post.

I have worked in computers for years and even had my own bussines that included building and troubleshooting computes. I write a little TCL code but since I started working for a telecommunication company about 10 years ago I dont keep myself in the loop as far as os unless I run into a roadblock like now.

These are 2 separate fully functional systems. They are working fine with no issues. Im cloning the old hardrive to the new hardrive to try to get all my programs and configuration in the new system.

Both of these laptops have been built from an image, althought they are different images since it's been a while since the firstone was built. I dont have a restoration disk for either. I could probably get a hold of one but it is not likelly to get the one from this board. I can get a hold of a windows XP professional install disk if needed.

The system does goes to a BSOD but it restart so quick I cant read the message. That is why I wanted to see if I could enable some sort of logs so i could read what was the last thing it happens before the laptop restart and if lucky get to read the actual message.

""If I put the serial drive in the usb port it will boot with no problem, but it will do the same as if the hd is in the laptop."

That's clear as mud!"

LOL! that is my English!!! What I meant is that after cloning the old hd in the new hd it would not matter if the new hd is connected to the mother board or connected to the usb port. In other words, I doubt there is a problem in the usb addapter as the system boots as far as it does when the hd is inside the laptop...

"Also, the partitions(s) would have to be partitioned FAT32 in order for you to be able to read the data in 98SE - if C is larger than 32gb it's partitioned NTFS in XP itself." The Windows SE was just an example of what could be done with that os. Both of these machines are XP.

All the needed drivers, old and new are in the hd. All i need is for the system to prompt for the drivers...

Im going to try to put the new hardrive in the old system just for kick and giggles...

I tried deleting the drivers from the device driver window but that dont seems to help but still have to try a few things... Any other ideas are welcome.


Report •

#15
December 23, 2008 at 18:48:03
I think the most important thing about this scenario, is the fact that you cannot move an XP hard drive from one system to another and have it work. An exception could be if the hardware of the two PCs is identical.

A 'Repair Install' can 'often' but not 'always' fix the problem.

I hope you aren't going to come back and say that you aren't moving the drive, that you are imaging the new system's hard drive with the old hard drives image. I realize that, and it's effectively the same thing.

"Im going to try to put the new hardrive in the old system just for kick and giggles..."

I hope you have an image of the new drive, because it probably is going to be corrupted when you install it in the old system.


Report •

#16
December 25, 2008 at 09:27:49
"The system does goes to a BSOD but it restart so quick I cant read the message."

The ONLY times I have seen that for a Windows installation that was working fine previously, whether it was copied or not, was when the computer was having problems reading the ram.

In the situation I wrote of where the only problem is the mboards are too different for XP to handle, everything is normal until after the first bit if Windows graphics appears, you DO NOT get a blue screen or error message, you get a black one, blinking cursor top left, the computer halts doing anything - it does not re-start.

"Im going to try to put the new hardrive in the old system just for kick and giggles..."

If you mean via it being in an external case for a SATA drive connected by a USB connection, if the D600's bios is capable of being set in it's boot order to booting from an USB connected drive (it be removable drive, or something else similar) before any hard drive, it should boot and work fine.


Report •

#17
December 27, 2008 at 14:37:46
"The ONLY times I have seen that for a Windows installation that was working fine previously, whether it was copied or not, was when the computer was having problems reading the ram."

Ram is fine, it works with no problem when I get the original load in the hd.

"If you mean via it being in an external case for a SATA drive connected by a USB connection, if the D600's bios is capable of being set in it's boot order to booting from an USB connected drive (it be removable drive, or something else similar) before any hard drive, it should boot and work fine."

There is no need to permanent change the booting order even thought I dont see an issue with it. I just hit f12 to do a one time boot and select usb from there.


At this time this post is mere academically.
I had a clone of my original hd and I was working on the clone trying to do a sysprep. My hd was originally set up with 2 partitions. The first partition was for the os and the second for data. I booted from the sysprep hd to see if it will work fine in the D600 before attempting cloning it to the E6400. It prompted me to wait while it was doing something. After a few minutes of waiting I noticed that the cloned hd activity light was off but my original hd light was going on and off! You guess it, the sysprep hd also got a hold of my original hd os so now I cant boot of that one. I pulled the original hd out and tried to finish the clone sysprep hd but is asking for the cd key which I dont have and neither our local IT group as they work from iso images provided to them.

I will just do what I didnt want to do to begin with, set up the new laptop manually. I still have all of my data, is just the os that is messed up. It was looking grim to be able to move the install and once it is all done I wont need the "original" hd anyway...

Thanks for all of your help!


Report •

#18
December 29, 2008 at 15:36:52
"Ram is fine, it works with no problem when I get the original load in the hd."

Again, clear as mud.
You have two different laptops. The ram installed in one may not work properly in the other. If you have installed ram that was not in it originally on the E.... one, it may not be 100% compatible with that computer.
Etc. , Etc.

"There is no need to permanent change the booting order even thought I dont see an issue with it. I just hit f12 to do a one time boot and select usb from there."

My point was the bios must be able to boot from a USB connected drive. If you have other ways of doing that, that's fine.

The copied hard drive should work fine connected to the D600, with the same ram installed in it that worked fine before, via it being installed in the external case and connected to the D600 via the USB connection - if it isn't recognized and/or doesn't boot fine, there's something wrong with the data on the hard drive, or the hard drive itself.



Report •

#19
December 31, 2008 at 15:52:03
""Ram is fine, it works with no problem when I get the original load in the hd."

Again, clear as mud.
You have two different laptops. The ram installed in one may not work properly in the other. If you have installed ram that was not in it originally on the E.... one, it may not be 100% compatible with that computer.
Etc. , Et""

They are 2 separate systems. I am not moving anything other that the data on the hardrive. If I put the sata hd with the original xp load the computer boots fine. If I put the sata hd with the copied xp load the computer goes past the xp logo but then reboots.

Fixed my clone hd so my old system had a load to boot from. I will see if I can also restore the original old hd...


Report •

#20
January 1, 2009 at 15:02:50
Restored the original HD. The problem was that the second partition was loading as drive e instead of drive d and my "documents and settings" with my profile is in that drive.
At this point I wont even use laplink. I will just try to reinstall the 3 or 4 programs I need and will set the environment like I want.

Thanks everyone for your help. I think im done here.


Report •


Ask Question