By the way, Stuart, WHen I asked "Do you know of any catch involved?" I was referring to this (from your FIRST response): "It never ceases to surprise me how easy it is to blind some people with commercial hype and make them believe they are getting something for nothing." thanks, -BC

0

You a "cynical old man?" You're far from that. I highly respect your advices. Many young kids today dismiss us old timers as being useless. What amaze me is that they keep coming here for our help. Maybe we ought to take a one month furlong, sit back and watch them save the world without our guidance. i_XpUser

0

Oh and Stuart, please tell me what you mean by: "With an attitude like that, Microsoft will get ten times their money out of you in the next thirty or so years." in what ways will they get 10x out of me?? (i.e., any legal actions etc) -BC

0

Hopeless Look for a course called "connect the Dots 101" M2 If at first you don't succeed, you're about average.

0

in what ways will they get 10x out of me Longhorn, Windows Server 2006, Software Upgrade packages, SQL, you name it. Once you taste their fruit you're addicted like Mechanix hinted with tobaccos. i_XpUser

0

Stuart I guess you have to lead him by the hand. Be gentle.

0

Two maxims worth remembering: There is no such thing as a free lunch. and If it looks to good to be true, it probably is. Microsoft started by giving away Windows Version 1 and 2, windows 286 and windows 386 and I'm not sure, 3 as well. They were bundled everywhere, magazine cover disk, computers, everything. It wasn't until Windows 3.11 arrived with WFWG that things started to look up. By this time Windows had effectively killed of Gem as far the the PC goes and was giving OS/2 a hard time. http://www.pcmech.com/show/os/360/ Stuart

0

If one follows the MS ethos from an early age, MS say this, that or the other can't be done. On the other hand, there are those "old fogies" who fly in the face of that edict and prove time and time again what MS spouts is designed to make them wealthier. I'd rather save my pennies and listen to the garnered accummulative years of experience by the "old fellas". But that's just my opinion. LOL Lessons learnt the hard way are not easily forgotten.

0

And did a pretty fair job on GeoWorks. I guess we don't need to bring up Lotus & Quattro. M2 If at first you don't succeed, you're about average.

0

XpUser advices and furlong?? Best laugh I had today, so far.

0

BeachCrab The deal might very well be true (I don't think anyone is really disputing that), it's just funny that you think that MS is *AWESOME* because of this "free deal" they are giving people. The only reason there is any deal at all is because MS knows they will get a return of $$$ on their "free" deal by advertisement from *EXCITED* users such as yourself and people who eventually down the road will pay hundred$ extra to support their "free" deal. That's what was being referenced by getting a 10x return. I had to laugh just in reading the initial post as I thought it was a MS person spamming the forum and the later realized it's was a legitimate post, at any rate the sarcasm from all the other posts was at least funny to read. On the topic of smokes, I one time had a physical exam at a doctor's office where I was asked if I was a smoker... to which I replied "no"... then I was asked have you smoked in the past and quit?.... to which I replied "yes"... then I was asked if my info could be used for research reasons... "yes" again was my answer. Two weeks later I had a ***FREE*** pack of smokes in the mail to "try". Needless to say I never went back to that b---tard for a physical and told everyone else to stay away too... btw... never took up smoking again and gave the "free" smokes away to the TRASH CAN!!! :) Michael

0

The reason they give products away to students is so the students will promote them later in the workforce (of course). The only "catch" I suspect, is you...don't underestimate the value of IT students. Sure....some educational copies of Windows Server, etc, end up at private businesses...but like relatively few....and like XPUser said...they've got that biz hooked for the later upgrades...etc. And....there's nothing "sinister" in this. You as a student get full copies to disect to your heart's content. Your marketable skills are further enhanced. Micrsoft reduces its support expenses...whoever hires you in the future gets a more knowledgeable employee...and on and on. It's win-win as far as I can tell....but, believe you me...MS isn't losing anything.

0

This is the best belly laugh I have had in fifty years. Wake up and smell the coffee.

0

Holy crud... some people here are fairly sad. I'm enrolled in computer engineering courses at a school that offers MSDNAA software. I've in fact downloaded and used several of their products. The reasoning is simple enough. Microsoft knows that if you become accustomed to using their software in school you will most likely continue using it in the workforce because you are familiar with it. They also don't want to drive potential developers away because they can't afford development copies of something like Windows 2003 Server or SQL Server 2000. It's simply smart business to give developers a break. The analogy between this and tobacco is asinine. Tobacco is biologically addictive. Once your body becomes familiar with it, it expects it and the habit becomes incredibly hard to break. Microsoft offering their software free to students is completely different. If I (and I am) use Visual Studio .NET to write software in C++ or C# now, then in 5 years get a job to write C++ or C# will I use Visual Studio? Probably. Why? Because it's one of the best IDE's available for C++ and C# is a Microsoft language. Perhaps I find that I get a job writing Java. Well, hey, I say. May as well download Eclipse and use that. Oh, dear, that's not Microsoft! Or maybe the company I end up with uses *nix. I suppose I'll become more familiar with *nix then. Does either of these mean I'll turn down a job because they don't use Microsoft products? Obviously not. Just because I've used Microsoft software during my education for development reasons doesn't mean that I can't change to something else. A month or two (if you're slow) of becoming accustomed to a different software package and poof Microsoft's oh-so-evil plan is foiled. Anyway, right now I'm using a Windows XP computer with Office and Visual Studio installed, writing this in IE. Why? Because in general I feel that Microsoft software is pretty good. I have a Linux box that I use for a few things, but I don't feel that it's ready for me to give up Windows (think multimedia and hardware support). Give up the paranoid conspiracy theories. /rant

0

Just to add that this general approach (trying to ensure you are hooked) is nothing new. ICL & IBM were doing it in the main frame days (and others before that for all I know). It's just marketting... DerekW

0

Marketting means Carrot and the Stick... i_XpUser

0

Theres always a catch to something too good to be true. Microsoft wants you to get hooked so you'll by more later, just like you try tobacco once, you like it, you buy more. You try microsoft software once, you like it, you buy more. Its that simple.

0

according to the Doc, "marketing" (and asenine Tobacco "analogies") = paranoid conspiracy theories. What's REALLY "sad" is not too realize that Free Smokes : Tobacco Advertising Stategies :: Free Software : Microsoft Advertising Stragies I'm glad the doc is a staunch supporter of MS, and that he went for a career in programming... he might not have done so well in Marketing ;) Michael a littl civility makes the world a better place!

0

There is no "catch" to using MSDNAA software (if you don't agree, please define the catch) and the analogy between MS and tobacco is fundementally flawed. Tobacco depends on you becoming physically addicted to their product in order to be profitable. Do they hope you will continue to use their products? Nope. They know you will because you can't stop using them. Microsoft knows their software is expensive so they realize that the only way many people will be able to try it is if it's free or very low cost. That's why they do MSDNAA and student discounts. Do they hope you will continue to use their products? Yes, but because the student knows how to use and be productive with them. They are also aware however, that there are many other products out there which also work well so they continually try to make theirs better and keep the customers they have. Finally, as a matter of fact, I'm not a staunch supporter of Microsoft. I just get tired of hearing many people (not just here, many other places) about how terrible and evil it is when in reality it all comes down to business. Oh, and no, I doubt I could stand Marketing for 10 minutes. Bunch of dolts sitting around trying to figure out how to make something popular that's not. I'd rather actually make something :)

0

rotflmao... well at least your honest and I hope there's no marketing majors reading the posts here. :) At any rate I might add that the comparison is not really between the Tobacco and Microsoft... merely the Advertising Tactics vs. Advertising Tactics. Regardless of physical/mental/assumed addiction or otherwise you still can't argue that BOTH Microsoft and Tobacco Companies have played an excellent game at marketing (which I think was the point here). I use MS in just about everything I do, work here, at home, for clients, consulting, etc. To say that someone has done something well (*Advertising* per say) is not to say that MS is big and Evil. It is good business... the laugh here was how awesome it was that Microsoft was "giving away something for free" when you and I both know they wouldn't do it if it just wasn't good advertising for them... to admit this fact is not to say that anyone is evil, merely to say the advertise well. That's just my 2 cents, but as anyone is welcome to, disagree if you'd like. l8r Michael

0

Ah, well, yes I believe we are starting to see a little more eye-to-eye. I certainly agree that the basic reason behind the giveaways is to sell more products in the future. Any company with other marketing motives probably doesn't last very long. I was simply questioning the different reasoning behind the giveaways. Addicting you to poison versus giving a free demo of software. Oh well, enough of this.

0

Dr. Nick, How could you possibly say that this advertise will definitly work (or IS working) so that any current MSDNAA user will return it 10x (or however many times) in the future? Why Do I say this: Mainly because, in the agreement clause that I read, All schools that subscribe to are entitled to "give away" softwares so long as that particular institution is a subscriber to MSDNAA (MSDN Academic Alliance) What does this mean? This means, they can allow student to downlaod any/all products that they want as long as that product is in the list. MSVS 6.0 Enterprise edition, Windows XP Pro, Visual Studio .NET Pro, etc. etc. are already in the list... what else a person could possibly want?? As long as my school remains a subscriber, I will be able to access the software "library" and download to my hearts content.... What does this mean?, you ask... It means that I believe it's a Win-Lose situation.... Win for US and lose for Microsoft. What I do not get is, why would a company... who is more geared towards "How I can rule the world"... give away any product that has a retail price of over $1500...?? I know some users said that this will in turn make you buy more of their products in the future... but again my argument/statement remains "If it's already in the list of downloadable software, why would you want to buy it in the future? Just download it off of Microsoft's website...(which is legal...because of the MSDNAA subscription that my college has)" Please, don't think that I am a thick-head or anything like that.... I just want to get this "giving-away" stuff through my head [because I still feel that this is too good to be true... because: read my "Win-Lose" paragraph] And NO, this is in no way meant as an "ADVERTISE" of this "WONDERFUL" offer.... sorry if I came accrose that way.... I just wanted to share the joy that I got when I heard this through my friend. -BC

0

I just wonder what the rules say. Sure the college can have it and students can possibily download it onto college computers. Is there some implication here that students can download this stuff then take it off home with them, or give it to others? I realise you didn't actually say this but I feel sure it would not be legal if that happens to be what you are thinking. DerekW

0

.... correction, well possibly if it is for the students own use or study. DerekW

0

I like MS Excel so much that I paid for a copy and now I'm hooked. I can't do a spreadsheet without it. I've tried the others but I always come back to MS Excel. Bryan :)

0

I like MS Excel so much that I paid for a copy and now I'm hooked. I can't do a spreadsheet without it. I've tried the others but I always come back to MS Excel. Then comes Longhorn and the current MS office suite may not be good enough for it. What do we do? We can't switch to different brands. Ultimately we take out VISA from our wallet/purchase to buy this that ...... it goes on and on. This is how M$ makes money. i_XpUser

0

Bryan Yes, so do I. Yet at one time I used to get by with that MS Works thing (on 3.1). I bet it would drive me nuts these days. DerekW

0

BeachCrab: The point is that according to the MSDNAA EULA, any software downloaded as part of the agreement may not be used in any way in a production or commercial environment. This basically means that once you're done with school, you MUST delete the software and MUST NOT use it commercially to make money. However, Microsoft believes (correctly) that since you've gone to school and used Microsoft products for 4+ years developing software, you will want to continue doing so in your professional career. This means you'll be an advocate in whatever company you are employed in to use Microsoft products. Because you are using Microsoft products for development, you will be developing product for other companies and individuals that use Microsoft products. It's that simple. You are using Microsoft products to develop a product that requires Microsoft products to run. You (and your company) are a consumer of Microsoft as well as any of your customers. All this good business for Microsoft simply because they gave you free access to a couple of their products while you were in school (not the only reason, but partially anyway). As it was said, it's all marketing and planning for the future. There really is no "catch", unless you either have a beef against Microsoft or think you are being blind-sided somehow, which is not the case. It's more like the whole "circle of life" thing :)

0

"Then comes Longhorn and the current MS office suite may not be good enough for it." Excel 97 still works great and that is how MS is going to force the expiring Life cycle onto it. What the heck; my daughter's feet outgrew her shoes too. It seems lately that everyone wants to go a little deeper into my wallet with the exception of my employer. Bryan

0

What Dr Dick meant, I believe, is like this...if you go to college with all expenses paid under ROTC scholarship, you are expected to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces for X years upon graduation. i_XpUser

0

XpUser: wow.... i think u summed it all up! now this is an anology that I can get it through my head.... however, to correct Dr. Nick: I read the EULA (3x) online... and I have yet to spot a line that says "you may not continue using this software or any software that you have obtained through school or that you have downloaded, after you graduate from college" So what I am tryin' to get at, is: If i do not have to DELETE the software, then I won't.... which means, I will never puchase a commercial/retail copy of Visual Studio or Win XP Pro.... because for two reasons: 1: I will not be making sharewares 2: If I were to be employed by a software developing company...(which I believe I will be in the future) then they WILL ALREADY have a copy of Visual Studio or whatever MS product they want us programmers to program on. So, again, is this too good to be true? Is Microsoft actually losing money? OR Am I still not getting your point? -BC

0

It seems the consensus is: if they give it to you and you like it and get used to using it and then buy it again, then that's some sort of evil plot on the part of Microsoft. Now if you paid for the software like it and get used to using it then buy it again, or lord forbid advocate anyone else buy it too, that's not a plot. Bottom line is: Unless M$ loses money somehow, nobody is really happy. It our hearts we still beleive software should be free. Maybe it should be but it isn't going to be, so we all have to get used to it. If it wasn't M$, it would be someone else. Welcome to the not so free market enonomy.

0

I think that the cynicism by some people here is overlooking an obvious point... Most of us are already using Microsoft products!!! ???Why else would you be here in the Windows XP forum??? I for one, have multiple PCs, some of which could stand to have the OS upgraded. If I could actually get a free legal copy of WinXP Pro, I can't see where this makes MS a bad guy?? They just saved me a couple of hundred buck$. XPUser, let me take a wild guess here...You use ???XP??? Wouldn't it have been nice if you got that copy for free? MS has always advocated education. They offer discounted software such as MS Office Student & Teacher editions. Thru MSDNAA, they offer various MS software for free. What do you expect them to give away? Linux or OSX? Give MS a break on this one. It's one of the better programs that they offer. They know we're using MS products anyway. They're just helping to defray some of the costs of higher education. Just my 2 cents worth. Dave If Wile Coyote had enough money for all that Acme crap, why didn't he just buy dinner?

0

XPUser: I think you're last post is close to the truth, but you are required to serve in the military after ROTC. It'd be more accurate if after paying for school, the military said, "So do you like the army? How about signing up now? Please? Pretty pleeeeeease!" BeachCrab: I don't have an EULA in front of me, but I'm 90% sure that once you're no longer attending your CS classes that allowed you to get MSDNAA software you're not supposed to use them anymore. I'm also 99.9% sure that it is a violation of the agreement to use the program for commercial reasons. There's an easy answer to this however. Just go to the CS dept. at your school and ask. Your school is paying to offer these programs to you and there will be someone there in charge of it. He should be able to answer all your questions. Just to show everyone who is curious, here is the MSDNAA Software page for my school (and by George I do just happen to have an account :)

0

Hi Dr. Nick I apology for typing your name as Dr. Dick in my earlier post. Regarding ROTC, they will not ask you if you like the Army upon graduation and to please join. Rather, under the conditions of ROTC scholarships, you already have commit yourself by your acceptance of the schoilarship. My son won a science scholarship to a prestiguous university. The deal was that he has to work for the company upon graduation. i_XpUser

0

Correction - engineering scholarship not sciene scholarship. i_XpUser

0