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My machine contains a Western Digital 250GB(Drive #0) and a second WD (Drive #1) with data in three partitions. When I placed a fresh install on the newly formatted #0, the drive emerged labeled Drive G. I've been told that in order to label #0 as C:, I must disconnect the second, data drive (#1), wipe the MBR on #0(using as a boot disk the lean system on UBCD4Win and one of the apps contained on it), insert the XP install disk and proceed, formatting the disk when required. After the install I would reengage Drive #1.
My question: can I "disable" drive #1 while the OS is still mounted on Drive#0, using Device Manager, then proceed to wipe the MBR
and install to the still enabled #0, or will I have to open the machine and physically pull the plug on Drive #1? To put it another way, will the XP installer find and assign drive letter C to the first partition of Drive #1 even though it was disabled by Device Manager? I'm partially disabled, and physically opening the machine presents a problem.Oyster
Somebody, or a bunch of people, you talked to was/were complicating things too much.
XP Setup assigns drive letters according to what drive letters have already been assigned on the computer to other partitions XP recognizes.
If you eliminate Setup from seeing other partitions, the partition XP installs Windows on is always C.Go into your bios Setup and disable the detection of the connection Drive 1 is on, save settings, reboot.
If drive 1 is IDE slave or SATA that probably won't cause a problem.
If your drive 1 is otherwise connected, or if that causes a problem, let us know.Boot with the XP CD, run a regular Setup, delete the existing partition from drive 0, make a new one, proceed normally with Setup.
When it has finished, the partition XP Windows is on will be C.
The MBR has also probably been re-written to suit.
Enable the connection of drive 1 in the bios Setup.
Try your system.
.....If you have any problem related to the MBR, boot with the XP CD, let the initial Setup files load, press R at the first screen where it asks you if you want to Repair Windows - that goes to the Recovery Console.
(If it finds more than one Windows installation location, choose C:\Windows)
Press Enter when it asks for a password.
type: fixmbr - press Enter, answer yes.
type: exit - press Enter - to exit Recovery Console and auto reboot the computer.
Don't press a key to boot from the XP CD.
The computer should boot fine.
Remove the XP CD.If you need to enable booting multiple operating systems, we can tell you how to do that with Recovery Console if all bootable operating systems are detectable by XP.
...."My question: can I "disable" drive #1 while the OS is still mounted on Drive#0, using Device Manager, then proceed to wipe the MBR
and install to the still enabled #0... "Wiping (re-writing, actually) the MBR will not make the Windows partition C if the Windows installation is still on the drive and it was using some other drive letter.
Windows Setup has no way of knowing what the Device Manager settings are.
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Thanks for your generous response, tubesandwires. I'm stymied, however. Drive #1 is SATA3 in the BIOS, and I set it to "not detected", saved, and rebooted. However the drive and its data are still available to me. Moreover, if I begin a complete reinstall, choosing the options to load all files from the CD and choice of drive letters, install sees drive #1 as well as drive #0, which it continues to name Drive G: It's an ASUS mobo, and the BIOS is pretty straightforward, but I can't figure out how the installed system and the install CD continue to see Drive #1 though the BIOS lists it as "not detected". Would you comment?
Oyster
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CAVEAT: I have not tried (proven) this;
http://www.petri.co.il/change_syste...
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=...
It's a good day when you learn something
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If you try Dan Penny's suggestions, make a restore point in System Restore before attempting to edit the registry.
....It would help if you stated which Asus mboard model you have.
That would allow me to examine the bios Setup settings info in it's manual.
If you're not sure which model
- look in System Information on the first screen you see - in the right pane, my Asus A7V600 model is stated under Bios version / Date in the first part of the text.
(e.g. Start - Run - type: msinfo32, click OK)
- the model is often displayed while booting on the first screen you see, but the monitor must be warmed up if it is a crt, and it may only appear when you boot the computer from Shut Down mode, not when you Restart Windows.Normally I don't bother disabling the detection of a drive connection in the bios - I unplug the data cable connector to the drive(s) I don't want Setup to see - that works fine for what you want to do - but you said you'd rather not open the case.
How much trouble would it be for someone you know to do that for you?
Unplugging the power connector to the drive you don't want Setup to see usually accomplishes the same purpose if you don't want anyone messing with data cables (data cables can be damaged while while removing the connector).
What about your physical disability makes going inside the computer case difficult?
I help out several disabled people with their computers and am familiar with their challenges. Some can still do things but the task is a lot more difficult because of hand weakness. Some have Cerebral Palsy or Parkinson's and it would not be a good idea to do things inside the case because they they can't move their hands without jerky movement. Some are quadrapeleigic and can only move a few fingers, or none, so they can't open a case and fiddle.
In any case, whenever fiddling with any connection or module or card inside the case, remove the AC power to the case, either by switching off a power bar, or unplugging the cord to the case, or turning off the switch on the PS on the back of the case if it has one.I thought disabling the detection of the connection to drive 1 would accomplish the same thing. Did you choose None?
Without having a manual to look at, off the top of my head, if drive 1 is on a different SATA controller, disabling it's controller in the bios Setup should work. Or if Drive 1 is the only SATA drive, disabling the SATA controller(s) should work.The newest Asus mboard I have hooked up is a A7V600. It has SATA headers but I'm not using them. In it's bios you can disable individual hard drive controllers in Advanced - I/0 device configuration.
If that doesn't help, you supplying the model might.
There are other ways. XP cannot recognize hidden partitions, so if you use a program to flag all the partitions you don't want XP to see as hidden, Setup cannot see them.
If you have Partition Magic 8.x, or if you can borrow it from someone, you can flag them as hidden with that, with either the Windows or bootable Dos version, but it's probably easier to do that using the bootable Dos version, which does not require you install Partition Magic on the system at all - of course you would need a working floppy drive. There is a \Rescue Me or similar folder on it's CD. You run the Setup in that to make a two floppy Dos bootable version. Then you boot with the first floppy, insert the second when propmpted to do so, the Dos Partition Magic version loads.
If you don't have Partition Magic, there is a very similar freeware program I would think you can probably do the same with, but I'm not sure whether it detects SATA drives.
http://www.partitionlogic.org.uk/
Or there are other freeware partition manipulating programs such as Ranish that may work but I haven't used them.After Setup has finished, you simply un-hide the partitions again.
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Again, thanks tubesandwires. I have the manual for this ASUS motherboard,P5B-E,mounted new at the beginning of 2007. (It's no longer offered). I can't get any help from the book beyond what I reported above, so I guess I'll pull the plug on #1, boot from UBCD4Win, wipe the MBR, and install clean with the XP Pro disk. The machine is in a tower on the floor; I can get down, but I need an aid to get back up. But I'm not alone, so I'm sure I'll manage. Thanks for all your advice; I may need more of it but at any rate I'll report back here in the hope that it may amplify a little the knowledge with which you are so generous.
Dan Penny, thanks for the link. It sounds like an operation I don't want to risk unless as a counsel of despair, but I'm very pleased to have it in reserve.
O.Oyster
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A drive connected to header SATA 3 or SATA 4 (the black ones) cannot be booted from.
Bios Setup
- Main - SATA 3 - you said you tried Not Installed
- you could try CDROM or AMRD.
However, the bios may not allow that, or it may but the setting won't stick (it will revert to something else after you have saved bios settings and you will see that it has when you look in the bios again), or you may get an error message.- if your other HD is not SATA, you could try setting all of SATA 1,2,3 to Not Installed, or CDROM or AMRD.
- Advanced - it appears you can disable the JMicron SATA controller for SATA headers 4,5,6, but you can't disable the integrated in the main chipset Intel SATA controler for SATA headers 1,2,3, and obviously if your other HD is SATA, disabling the Intel SATA controller would disable both drives if you could disable it.
....."The machine is in a tower on the floor; I can get down, but I need an aid to get back up."
In that case, why isn't it up higher where you can get to it easily, on your right preferably?
"...boot from UBCD4Win, wipe the MBR, ..."
As I said previously, the MBR is not wiped, it's re-written, and the MBR may be re-writtem automatically simply but running XP Setup. Even if it isn't it's easy to run fixmbr as I explained.
I have no idea whether that CD would re-write the MBR so that it is the same as what Setup and XP expects.
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I guess it's the persistence of the MBR's memory that prompts me to wipe it. That, and the limits of my own memory of computer basics. Let me try a couple of the BIOS mods and see if I can make drive #1 invisible.
I didn't know about the black SATA connectors; if I have to go into the case, I'll put #1 on one of them. The BIOS reports it on SATA 3, but in fact it's plugged into a red connector; doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the BIOS, does it?. But if I understand correctly, XP install will never put the OS on a drive that can't boot, is that right?
Apart from the usual tasks, I use the computer to paint; thus it's on the floor to make room for a couple of printers, one of them quite large; a scanner; the router and modem; the USB2 hub; and household digital telephone base. As it is, my wife wants to put a screen up between me and my cables, and the rest of the guest bedroom.
O.Oyster
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"I didn't know about the black SATA connectors; if I have to go into the case, I'll put #1 on one of them."
If you want to be able to boot Windows from it, it must be on a red one - SATA 1, 2, 5, or 6.
The bios may list the SATA connections differently from the mboard labelling - you go by the mboard labelling/color - bogus, but sometimes that's the situation."But if I understand correctly, XP install will never put the OS on a drive that can't boot, is that right?"
Logically one would think that's the case for Setup, but I have never tried running Setup and trying to get it to install on a "slave" SATA drive, so I don't know.
I do know Windows XP Setup continues until it finishes, automatically, sometimes even if the drive it is being installed on is not the first one in the bios Setup boot order. If it isn't the first one in the bios boot order the drive will not boot after Setup has finished.
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As much as I love my comments to be ignored, I'll ask again. Why do you want to change the drive letters? Why MUST Windows be installed to C:?
If your only answer is, "Because G: is not C:," don't worry about it. My Windows is installed on E:.
EDIT: And let me clarify: You screw this up, and you might end up formatting one or more drives. You do it correctly, and you STILL have to reinstall WinXP.
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Bless you Razor2.3; no offense intended. But many years with these devices have taught me over and over again -- do what everybody else does with the install. You mount all the apps and then with all the data and backups on board,you discover that a new (or old) and much-desired application or coded tool expects to find the OS on C. Doesn't happen any more? OK, I won't argue. But even with a wallet full of cards, I can't bring myself to go out into the world without cash money. It's a failing of us geezers and belt-and-suspenders folk.
O.Oyster
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Okay, fine. I'm not going to waste energy preventing you from wasting energy.
With my dealings from ASUS, I will assume the MB reports the devices to Win setup in the same order as the boot order. However, Win setup will also look at the current partitions, and assigns letters on a first-come-first-served basis. This leaves you with two options:
1) Change the boot order. Then, in Windows setup, delete your G: partition and your C: partition. This will open up the letter C: for the next partition you make (out of what used to be G:). I only skimmed the previous walls of text, but I think that's what everyone has been guiding you towards.
2) Windows won't allow you to change the drive letter of a drive in use. This is what prevents you from swapping drive letters from within WinXP. In theory, this means you could use something like BartPE to change the drive letters. I haven't done so personally, but I don't see anything wrong with the theory. You may then change the boot order and reinstall WinXP; both to build the MBR and boot loader on that disk, and to fix the fact that you’ve just broken every single program installed, including WinXP.
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Razor2.3
"... I will assume the MB reports the devices to Win setup in the same order as the boot order. "
That's not the way it works in this case.
2000 and up Setup assigns drive letters according to what drive letters have already been assigned on the computer to other partitions and optical drives XP recognizes if any are visible to Setup - if those partitions are 2000 and up Setup can detect which drive letters have already been assigned to them.
In oster's case, Setup found C thru F were already being used, so it assigned G to it's Windows installion partition, the first available drive letter alphabetically, as you say, more or less "....assigns letters on a first-come-first-served basis." The boot order in the bios Setup doesn't necessarily have to jive with the order of the drive letters Setup assigns in that case, and it often doesn't.
If you eliminate Setup from seeing other 2000 and up partitions, the partition XP installs Windows on is always C."2) Windows won't allow you to change the drive letter of a drive in use."
True.
" This is what prevents you from swapping drive letters from within WinXP."
False, unless all available drive letters are in use (C-Z, including those for optical drives), or too few drive letters are free.
In 2000 and up, by default you can change any drive letter except the one for the partition the currently booted Windows installation is installed on (Dan Penny's links in response 4 may have the info you need to get around that) as long as there are at least a few available drive letters. If a drive letter you want to use is in use for a partition or optical drive, you can temporarily change that partition's or optical drives's drive letter to some other drive letter that is not in use, freeing up the drive letter you want to use.
Usually you can juggle drive letters that way until the drive letters are all assigned to the partitions or optical drives you want them to be assigned to.
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Tubesandwires: That's not the way it works in this case.
2000 and up Setup assigns drive letters according to what drive letters have already been assigned on the computer to other partitions and optical drives XP recognizes if any are visible to Setup - if those partitions are 2000 and up Setup can detect which drive letters have already been assigned to them.
Drives != Partitions. Thanks for playing, though.False, unless all available drive letters are in use (C-Z, including those for optical drives), or too few drive letters are free.
You're right, I should have specified. You cannot change the drive letter of any partition in use by the kernel. This does not apply to any partition in use by an application.
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"Drives != Partitions. Thanks for playing, though. "
What's that supposed to mean?
LOGICAL drive letters are assigned to partitions (primary or logical), or optical drives ( or floppy drives, or usb drives, or ram drives, etc.)
Physical hard drives with (a) partition(s) can only be treated the same in some ways as logical drives if the physical drive has only one partition."This does not apply to any partition in use by an application."
It's got nothing to do with applications. The partition could merely be formatted and empty of data otherwise.
"In 2000 and up, by default you can change any drive letter except the one for the partition the currently booted Windows installation is installed on"
As in, the Windows partition.
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Really, I have no idea where this anger is coming from. If you have some sort of problem with me, take it to PM's. There's no reason to be filling the thread with nerdrage. Or at the very least, read my messages; don't simply skim them.
What's that supposed to mean?
In C-type languages, != is the inequality operator. As such, it tends to pop up in online discussions from time to time. Apparently it's becoming more obscure. I guess I should start writing out, "does not equal"."In 2000 and up, by default you can change any drive letter except the one for the partition the currently booted Windows installation is installed on"
Again, because that partition is in use by the kernel.
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I did read your messages. Some of what you wrote is incorrect, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to comment.
"In C-type languages, != is the inequality operator."
I know little about programming, and I've never seen that used.
" I guess I should start writing out, "does not equal".
The more people understand what you are saying, the better, whatever way you do it.
I try to explain things so even a newby can understand what I am getting at.""In 2000 and up, by default you can change any drive letter except the one for the partition the currently booted Windows installation is installed on""
"Again, because that partition is in use by the kernel."A similar thing said a similar way.
Would a newby know what a kernel is?
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I did read your messages. Some of what you wrote is incorrect, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to comment.
You picked random blocks of text and assigned an arbitrary meaning, even when my next paragraph would contradict the supposed meaning.For clarification, I’m using “drive” to mean the physical object, and “partition” to mean Logical Disk/Drive.
I'm a jerk (a big one, really), but when I don't understand what someone is saying, I ask for clarification. I don't assume they're incorrect.
I know little about programming, and I've never seen that used.
So, VB? Off the top of my head, only VB and COBOL don't use !=.A similar thing said a similar way.
Would a newby know what a kernel is?
No. That's why I didn't specify in my original post.Then again, knowing HOW something works is fine and good, but knowing WHY something works is better, and Google comes up with 67,800,000 hits for "kernel."
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""I know little about programming, and I've never seen that used.""
"So, VB? Off the top of my head, only VB and COBOL don't use !=."Not even that. It doesn't interest me.
"...when I don't understand what someone is saying, I ask for clarification. I don't assume they're incorrect."
As far as some of what I have commented about, you are incorrect, at least that's the way it appears the way you have stated it.
We can edit any of our own posts on this site, at least for a limited time, to make them clearer. I do that frequently. Perhaps you should do that more often.
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