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Dual boot without XP CD

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Name: johnoakes
Date: January 10, 2005 at 07:14:19 Pacific
OS: Windows XP
CPU/Ram: Mobile P4/1 GB
Comment:

I recently bought a Dell Inspiron notebook preloaded with XP. No XP recovery or installation CD - recovery should be through recovery console.

I have two questions - any help would be appreciated...

1) If the hard drive fails, have I lost Windows XP?

2) Is it still possible to dual-boot with Windows 98? Previous posts and Microsoft support site all advise installing older OS first - as XP already installed and no CD to install from I obviously cannot do this.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.



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Response Number 1
Name: ranchhand
Date: January 10, 2005 at 07:23:01 Pacific
Reply:

No recovery disks-I can't believe these vendors. And the awsome thing is that they get away with this and nobody seems to care.

Well, I understand that there is some kind of "hidden" partition on the harddrive that is supposed to contain your copy of XP and programs. I am not sure so I am happy to be corrected.

However, that also puts you in a tight situation. In order to dual boot you must create another partition. Unless you use a 3rd party utility such as Partition Magic, it's not going to happen. And you are right, the oldest OS must be installed first. The reason is that Win98 cannot be targeted as to which partition it is to be installed to like XP and 2000 can, so it automatically chooses the "C" drive.

Beware using P/Magic utility. Lots of folks trash their operating systems using it, and especially is it dangerous IF you have the infamous "hidden partition". Lose that and you lose your only copy of XP and programs. I am sure that Dell has some provision if that happens, but I have no knowledge of that.

Wish I could be of more help. Maybe someone else has a solution to your problem.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime;
Then industry pollutes the water and kills all the fish.


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Response Number 2
Name: Chuck 2
Date: January 10, 2005 at 07:38:05 Pacific
Reply:

I do not know about Dell, but I would Register your purchase with them on their website, so you
can get tech support when you need it. Then ask them your question # 1. Maybe Dell wants you to pay extra for CDs.

I have a Compaq computer that came with a Recovery CD. If HDD failed I needed to buy QuickRestore CDs, which I did one month before HDD failure.


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Response Number 3
Name: StuartS
Date: January 10, 2005 at 08:04:13 Pacific
Reply:

I would take a closer look at the CDs that came with the laptop. It may not say Microsoft on it, but one of them is likely to be a recovery CD. Read the small print.

My Dell laptop came with a full Windows XP Home Installation CD.

Stuart


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Response Number 4
Name: TopFarmer
Date: January 10, 2005 at 10:29:38 Pacific
Reply:

for the duel boot, if you plan to add a second hdd for WIN98 (as master)and have the XP recovery console installed then should be no problem and more help can be given.


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Response Number 5
Name: mosaddique
Date: January 10, 2005 at 12:37:57 Pacific
Reply:

Stuart is right.

All Dell machines I have come across have been provided with a full XP CD. It is mostly blue in colour and is labelled "OPERATING SYSYTEM" followed by the comments stating that it is "ALREADY INSTALLED ON YOUR COMPUTER".

It will also say something like "Reinstallation CD Microsoft Windows XP Home including Service Pack 1a" or similar.

So check any of the CDs that came with your Laptop for similar markings.

If you do NOT have the CD then so long as you have a valid COA then you could buy a CD only (plenty people selling these on e-bay) for the same version as on your system.

Alternatively get a copy from a friend or collegue who has one and is prepared to let you copy it.

I certainly would not want to risk the day when the hard drive goes south and the laptop is out of warranty. You may not be able to obtain a replacement without significant additional cost.

___________________________________________
When everything else fails, read the instructions.


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Response Number 6
Name: trvlr
Date: January 10, 2005 at 13:10:30 Pacific
Reply:

"...And you are right, the oldest OS must be installed first. The reason is that Win98 cannot be targeted as to which partition it is to be installed to like XP and 2000 can, so it automatically chooses the "C" drive..."

This is not true...

In any dual-boot arrangement involving '98 (or '95 or ME) with W2K or XP it is NOT essential to install '98 first. True it "is" easier overall if '98 (the older OS) goes in first - but it's NOT essential. (Similarly when dual-booting W2K and XP.) Without using an add-in boot-manger util, all you need to ensure is that (on a system with only one Primary) the active Primary is either fat16 (2Gig max) or fat32 (can be over 2Gig obviously). If there are two or more Primary partitions present the same rule applies... The active Primary must contain the boot/start-up files for all installed M$ OS. If using an add-in boot-manager then things can be a little different; see the details for each such util - they tend to differ "a little" one t'other.

If '98 (or ME) goes in after W2K/XP there is little repair work to do to restore access to W2K/XP, and to complete the required arrangements for '98 to boot via the W2K/XP boot-loader (i.e.create a bootsect.dos). Otherwise it's no big/real problem...?

'98 does NOT have to go into c: (the active Primary partition). Whilst its boot/start-up files "must" reside in the active Primary - the actual system files (the OS itself) can go almost wherever you want them - typically in a logical-drive in the Extended partition... In a multi-primary drive the same rule applies. Again with boot-manager utils things can change slightly...

I have multi-booot systems with '98 in a logical-drive - as are all the other installed M$ OS. All their boot-files are in the single (active) Primary...

As regards the problem as posted...
This whole M$ pressure to restrict CD provision does make one long for some real competition for M$... That Dell no longer offers those CD is news to me. I note others here seem to feel you may actually have the necessary CD - but haven't properly recognised it? I note from recent reading on the www that HP is into this "no Recovery CD" scenario too... Their rational being that it makes recovery simpler for non-technical (non-PC literate) users...

If the drive fails (crashes) then yes it's probably "bye-bye" to XP (and any recovery data in any hidden partition - to say nothing of your own personal data etc. As I understand it, the small "hidden" partition (at the start of the drive?) does contain some critical info that is used in conjunction with the recovery CD? So logically if the drive crashes then that hidden area goes too?

Presumably XP came as ntfs (in a single - Primary - partition)? If so then life is little complicated as you will need a second Primary partition into which '98 will go. (This additional Primary can obviously be fat32 - or even fat16 but that has to be 2Gig max...) This Primary should ideally (i.e. must) be ahead of the current XP Primary - to avoid issues surrounding the bootcode boundary for '98 (it's located at the 8Gig mark...). To create that Primary you could use System Commander or Partition Magic or BootIT? PM has trashed some (many?) systems when involved with XP (allegedly resolved in version-8, but I have yet to be convinced...) System Commander/BootIt have no such issues reported?

Presuming you did manage to create the necessary Primary and install '98 there, then you could probably use the associated boot-manager with whichever partition manager/creator you used to control which Primary to boot (and thus which OS). '98 Primary would probably be the active Primary partition in this scenario.

Not having gone that route I'm loathe to say (categorically) that it will work perfectly, but in theory it should...

Read the manual for these utils and see what they say is possible - re' a dual-primary system?


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Response Number 7
Name: Developer
Date: January 10, 2005 at 21:52:42 Pacific
Reply:

one simple and easy suggestion is to create an image of your hard drive and burn it as bootable CD.
next time you reformat your hard drive, all your need to do is loaded your CD and everything will be back to what it was...

Hope that helps.
Jase



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Response Number 8
Name: Eagle1
Date: January 25, 2005 at 10:11:04 Pacific
Reply:

On the recovery cd's...

Microsoft changed their licensing with Windows XP. Manufacturers are no longer allowed to create or include restore disks with the computer. They can include a restore partition on the hard drive, of course that won't help in case of a hard drive failure.

My suggestion would be to create a ghost (or similar) image of the hard drive before Windows is ever started. This way it can be restored to factory settings if there are ever any problems later.

Eddie L. Seelke
http://www.seelke.net


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