Copying files over a home network

January 4, 2009 at 07:04:17
Specs: Windows XP, 200MB
I have a computer running XP Pro that has a directory set up to share. A program running on this computer produces files from time to time that I wish to copy or cut (from another computer over my home network). I believe there is some type of file permission issue because I am unable to copy or cut these files unless I go to the computer with the shared directory and make a copy of the file first (or wrap the file(s) up in a zip or rar (archive) file). Only then can I cut and copy copies of the desired files.

Has anyone experienced a problem like this?

Here’s some more info:

If I try to copy or cut the files generated by the program directly over the network I’ll get an “Access is denied” message.

Other computers can write a file directly to this shared directory.



See More: Copying files over a home network

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#1
January 4, 2009 at 09:11:11
mmm - are you familiar with:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040

and a simpler version at:

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/...

And this rather simple discussion here at CN may be all you need to follow?

http://www.computing.net/answers/wi...

And this discussion may help you realise etc. that you're not alone in trying to understand folder/file sharing across a lan (with XP)...

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6122_10...

But I think the two links at start may be all you need to follow/understand...


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#2
January 4, 2009 at 09:52:30
Yes, my computer has been shared as described by #1 and #2 (your links).

It might be helpful if I use labels to better describe the symptom.

Computer A: Windows XP Pro; the computer with the shared folder; a computer program on this computer (Computer A) generates files dropping them into the shared folder.

Computer B: Windows XP Pro; this computer has full access to files on the shared directory of Computer A (through the network) only under certain conditions.

Computer A has a program that generates files and places these files into the shared directory (of A). The file names of these files can be seen by B, but cannot be opened, copied or deleted.

If I physically log onto Computer A and simply make a copy of the inaccessible file(s) then computer B can copy, and delete the recently copied file.

Also, Computer B can write a file to the shared directory of Computer A at anytime as well as delete or modify whatever it wrote.

Summary

So, whenever the program on Computer A generates a file, the only way that I can move this file to Computer B is if I first log onto Computer A and make a copy of that file. Then, and only then, can Computer B move the copied file into it’s own hard drive.

So, is this some sort of file permission issue? Is there a way to see who owns the file generated by the program verses ownership of that same file copied?


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#3
January 4, 2009 at 11:23:55
mmm... one/two other point/s to clarify - file formats on each system - well actually PC A; is it fat32 or ntfs?

When you logon to A and make a copy of a file (after-which B can access it etc...) where is this copy deposited on A?

On the face of it, this does look like permissins issue - somewhere related to A (and the pgrogramme generated files).

Incidentally - although may well not be anything to do with it - is this just files from one programme only that has this problem; or is all files the end up in that shared folder from wherever?


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Related Solutions

#4
January 4, 2009 at 11:42:49
http://www.practicallynetworked.com...

discusses the whole issue of file sharing etc. - at the ntfs level...; and hightlights a few well known (and not so) irritations/pitfalls...

Helmig's info is very detailed and complete; well worth a solid browse, as he really does dig into it and brings out many less than obvious things to know... and gives a few examples too.

These two:

http://cc.jlab.org/docs/services/wi...

http://www.winxpsolution.com/Applyi...

give you a slightly different explanation (in terms of style etc.) but substance is the same. Nonetheless they too may bring clarification as to what is happening and where your problem arises (presuming you are using ntfs)?


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#5
January 4, 2009 at 13:36:07
I made an odd discovery.

Using the notation I defined above.

If I log onto Computer A and perform the following

Step 1) right click on the folder currently shared --> sharing and security ... --> sharing tab --> uncheck "allow network users to change my files” --> Ok

Step 2) right click on the folder currently shared --> sharing and security ... --> sharing tab --> check "allow network users to change my files” --> Ok

After I do this all the files that were generated by the program in Computer A suddenly become accessible to Computer B

HOWEVER

If a new file gets generated by the program in Computer A the original problem still exists. So, unfortunately, I still have the same issue.


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#6
January 4, 2009 at 13:43:05
"mmm... one/two other point/s to clarify - file formats on each system - well actually PC A; is it fat32 or ntfs? "

Both computers are NTFS

"When you logon to A and make a copy of a file (after-which B can access it etc...) where is this copy deposited on A?"

In the context of this thread we're always talking about the same shared directory on Computer A. So when I make a copy I place it in the shared folder (the same folder containing the inaccessible files).


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#7
January 4, 2009 at 13:43:05
Select the share folder and right click then select sharing and security. Under the sharing tab, select the share this folder and also the
allow network users to change my files. This is for simple file sharing (default setting of xp). If this setting has been changed, you'll need to set permissions from the permission button or from the security tab for group users.

Being unable to access the new file may be due to it sill being opened by the program accessing it. Try closing the application that creates the file and see if you can copy it then.

Silence is golden but duct tape is silver


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#8
January 4, 2009 at 14:01:02
"Select the share folder and right click then select sharing and security. Under the sharing tab, select the share this folder and also the
allow network users to change my files. This is for simple file sharing (default setting of xp). If this setting has been changed, you'll need to set permissions from the permission button or from the security tab for group users.
"

Yes, that was done about one month ago and verified today. I have also verified that “simple file sharing” is enabled.

As stated in my post above: Computer B has full access to the network folder of Computer A, but only under certain conditions therefore I would think settings mentioned in the quote directly above would have to have been set prior, despite the fact that some files cannot be read by Computer B.

The difference seems to be when the program on Computer A writes a new file to the shared directory; Computer B cannot open, copy or move files generated by the program running on Computer A unless I physically log onto Computer A and make a copy or, as recently discovered, if I toggle the "allow network users to change my files” setting. In the former case Computer B has access to a copy of the file, but not the original. In the latter case every file becomes accessible by Computer B immediately following the toggle, but as soon as the program running on Computer A generates a new file that new file will not be readable by Computer B.


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#9
January 4, 2009 at 14:55:07
so compare the properties of the new uncopyable file with the properties of one you can copy.

Who has ownership of each file?
What program is generating the file?
Does 'Everyone' have full control to the share?

'tis the season to be of good cheer. Wishing one and all happy times with family and friends.


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#10
January 4, 2009 at 15:17:08
"Who has ownership of each file?"

I do not know how to check who has ownership of a given file. I have right clicked on these files, but didn't see anything immediately obvious pertaining to ownership.

"What program is generating the file?"

Just a program I’ve used before (and shared the directory in the same way with no issues like this (different computer))

"Does 'Everyone' have full control to the share?"

I do not know for sure. All I did was this:

Right Click on folder to be shared --> sharing and security ... --> sharing tab --> check "Share this folder on the network" --> check "allow network users to change my files -->Ok

Simple file share is enabled.


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#11
January 4, 2009 at 15:24:18
Helmig's info covers it all if I remember correctly - from who owns what onwards... Perhaps have a good read of it all; and see if can track it down?

This does sound like an ownership issue - at some level?

ntfs file/folder controls (permissions) are a world unto themselves; and it's easy to get a given access at one level blocked at another...


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#12
January 4, 2009 at 15:32:53
As stated, I've right clicked on the files, but saw nothing that would give the casual observer an indication of what entity owns the file. Am I to assume that it is far too complex a matter to verbalize how to check on file ownership?

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#13
January 4, 2009 at 15:46:35
Regarding a link given (Helmig?). I don't have the same tabs as shown in this document:

http://cc.jlab.org/docs/services/wi...

The tabs available to me are: General Sharing & Customize


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#14
January 4, 2009 at 16:29:41
that isn't ntfs permissions...

My XP-home system is fat32; and that's all it allows...

If you view what's in the Sharing tab, what boxes are checked - if any - for both original and copy of file(s)? I don't have any checked and can share files across my 3 PC lan no problems...

Also what effect does disabling firewall have here; a very long shot - but who knows (only The Shadow...)?

Helmig is the first link; the other two are just parts of other sites - with the specific info re' ntfs permissions picked out for you.


Incidentally are there any security options within the programme in question re' files access, whether or not they're freely available or not by default and so on?


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#15
January 4, 2009 at 17:01:51
"that isn't ntfs permissions..."

I am not sure what you are trying to convey. Are you saying I don't have NTFS? I concluded that I have NTFS for two reasons 1) upon installation of XP Pro on Computer A and 2) I did the following to check how the drive of Computer A (that contains the shared folder) is formatted

Start --> My Computer --> manage --> disk management

Using the procedure outlined directly above this sentence I saw that my hard drive on Computer A was formatted as "NTFS"

"My XP-home system is fat32; and that's all it allows... "

Both of my computers (Computer A and Computer B) are running on XP-Pro ( see response 2)

"If you view what's in the Sharing tab, what boxes are checked - if any - for both original and copy of file(s)? I don't have any checked and can share files across my 3 PC lan no problems... "

I have interpreted the sentence you wrote above to mean that you speak of looking at the properties of a file (and not a directory). In that context this is what I have to say: While logged onto Computer A (the computer I wish to share files over a network) I have right clicked a file then clicked on properties. The resultant window that appears has two tabs, General and Summary. I see no "sharing" tab when right clicking on an individual file that sits in the shared directory.

"Also what effect does disabling firewall have here; a very long shot - but who knows (only The Shadow...)? "

Windows firewall was activated on Computer A, but not Computer B. I'll have to wait to see if disabling Windows firewall allows for sharing of files generated by the program on Computer A.

" Helmig is the first link; the other two are just parts of other sites - with the specific info re' ntfs permissions picked out for you. "

The link I followed shows options that I do not have so I quit reading it thinking that it didn't have anything to do with my system. "(see Response 13)"


" Incidentally are there any security options within the programme in question re' files access, whether or not they're freely available or not by default and so on?"

Not that I know of. However, I have used this program in conjunction with a shared directory in exactly the same why described here without any issues (but on a different machine).



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#16
January 5, 2009 at 17:04:30
Maybe for grins, try going to folder options then view tab. Scroll down to the last entry and uncheck option "use simple file sharing". Click apply and ok button. Go to the shared folder, highlight it, right click and select sharing & security. Click on the permissions button and everyone should at least have change and read permissions, preferably full control as well. Click on the security tab and check to see if administrator has permission for all. Let us know what you find. As another suggestion, create a new share and see if you have the same access problem.

Silence is golden but duct tape is silver


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