ati cp needs to close

Intel / D102ggc2
February 13, 2009 at 19:37:23
Specs: Windows XP, 2.8ghz/2gb ram
i recently replaced my video adapter, got a Sapphire Video card.
Chipset: ATI RADEON HD 3670 (RV635)
512mb ddr2

installed the drivers+ ati cp off its cd, and it works fine at each reboot, then at any given point, even with pc in standby, it'll pop up "ati control panel has encountered a problem and needs to close.. sorry"

where should I start troubleshooting ? my directX shows as version 9.0C on the system tab, but under the directX files tab, i see 5.xx.xxx by all dll's. can that be a problem ?

i repeat, ati cp turns off, and if i want to i can turn it back on, then after a while it does it again. i kind of need it ON, because i use my tv out to my living room tv set and it's annoying not to be able to clone to tv when needed :(

i'd appreciate some help on this, thank you

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


See More: ati cp needs to close

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#1
February 13, 2009 at 20:39:22
Did you remove the prior adapter from system in software before you actually removed it from computer?

If so then remove this and re-install maybe?

"Best Practices", Event viewer, host file, perfmon, antivirus, anti-spyware, Live CD's, backups, are in my top 10


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#2
February 13, 2009 at 20:45:19
The versions of the files do not indicate the DirectX version. Lots of files on your computer have a 5.xxxx version number.

Start - Run - type: dxdiag (click OK or press Enter)

It shows the DirectX version at the bottom of the first screen. The pages of it will show you if it detects any problems.

It usually doesn't and the problem is elsewhere.


Did you use the all-in-one ATI software install on the CD, or install components individually? If you did the latter, you MUST install the ATI software modules in the RIGHT order.

If you did use the all-in-one ATI software install on the CD, if it has bugs, there is probably info about what others have done to get around that on the newegg or tigerdirect sites in the user reviews for the Sapphire card, or other 3670 cards, if there are any reasonable amount of reviews,
or - search with the exact error on the AMD (AMD/ATI) site.


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#3
February 14, 2009 at 03:28:04
i did a full format of my C drive when i bought the new card, installed all the mobo drivers, then installed the ati drivers and control panel along with net framework via 'complete installation' from the cd in the box. thank you

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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Related Solutions

#4
February 14, 2009 at 13:15:34
Have you tried searching using the exact error message on the AMD site (in the ATI section) or on the web??

If the subject mboard is the one you specify above, I have taken a look at it's specs.

Intel D102ggc2

Downloads, for XP
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/fil...

main manual
http://support.intel.com/support/mo...

ATI Radeon* Xpress 200 Graphics
(integrated video)

ATI Radeon* Xpress 200 chipset.

Intel recommends:

"If the IntelĀ® Chipset Software Installation Utility is required for your system, it should be installed immediately after installing your operating system and any operating system service packs, but before installing any other device drivers."

Is that what you did?
....

Did you use the all in one install of the ATI software for the mboard from the mboard CD?
If you DID, it installed drivers and other related software programs for the onboard ATI video. You must Un-install those drivers and related programs in Add/Remove Programs in Windows BEFORE you install the all-in-one software installation of the ATI software for the card from it's CD.

Windows must be set to some default VGA display adapter, or the equivalent, BEFORE you install the all-in-one software installation of the ATI software for the card from it's CD.

If Window automtically installed drivers for the video adapter before you installed specific drivers, or after you remove previously installed ATI video drivers and related software, or in any case, look in Device Manager and see what it lists for the Display Adapter in Device Manager - if it says ANYTHING other than some type of standard VGA adapter, (if you have already un-installed any entries for previously installed ATI video related software in Add/Remove Programs, or if there is nothing like that listed there) Uninstall all entries that say otherwise, but DO NOT reboot the computer (that sets Windows to a default VGA safe mode), and THEN install the drivers from the CD for the video card; THEN you can reboot.
......

"..then installed the ati drivers and control panel along with net framework... "

If it installed a .Net Framework software version, that is NOT required for something actually called a "Control Panel", or any of the other ATI software, but it IS required for the newer bloatware equivalent - Catalyst. A program called Control Panel is what ATI used to use in the past, before they started using Catalyst. They have been using Catalyst instead of Control Panel for at least several years. You are not likely to have the actual "Control Panel" in the ATI software on the CD unless you buy a ATI chipset card that was first released more than about 3 years ago and the included CD contents have not been changed since. The Sapphire card CD probably has 100% ATI supplied software.
Control Panel and Catalyst are NOT the same thing.
......

I recommend you DO NOT install anti-malware software before you install the drivers and associated software for the video. The resident module(s) in it/them can interfere with any software from installing properly, and disabling the resident modules in it/them may not be enough to prevent that (e.g. Norton/Symantec software).

Do you have any Roxio software installed?
If you DO, if your card can capture video, the Roxio software is NOT compatible with one of the modules the ATI software installs. Roxio has known about the problem for years but has not fixed what causes it! If that ATI module has been installed, you'll probably see an separate entry in Add/Remove Programs - WDM.
UPDATE - correction - it's DAO the Roxio software can't get along with, not WDM.
If you see that, you could try un-installing it, but some of the features of your ATI software may then not work properly, and you may not be able to re-install it from the CD that came with the card, separately.
OR - just don't install Roxio software, before or after installing the ATI software!

If what I have suggested or pointed out so far doesn't help, I have several other methods of installing the software and which software to install I can suggest.



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#5
February 14, 2009 at 13:56:03
My advice is to uninstall the driver w/Catalyst Control Center & install the display driver only version. Use Option 2:

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_c...


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#6
February 14, 2009 at 14:05:35
I don't think installing the display drivers alone will enable him to properly use TV out.

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#7
February 14, 2009 at 14:11:34
"I don't think installing the display drivers alone will enable him to properly use TV out"

I don't know what you mean by "properly", but he can definitely use the TV out without having CCC installed.

Curious card choice though.


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#8
February 14, 2009 at 14:28:24
I don't know what your experiences have been like with Catalyst, or why you're so insistent on not using it, but I have not had any problems with that with the many ATI chipset cards I have installed, if the Catalyst version is one that is compatible with the display drivers version (you CAN have problems if you change the display drivers version and it's not compatible with the Catalyst version), that was not caused by some other software being the actual problem.

There are other things he could try.
Newer drivers/ apps/ Catalyst from the ATI site - the software on the CD may be over a year old, since the chipset was first released back then.
Omega Radeon drivers - they're fully approved of by ATI, they come with a Control Panel instead of Catalyst, and the Control Panel does not not require a .Net Framework version.


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#9
February 14, 2009 at 14:57:03
I don't use CCC because I don't see any need for it. I've run a Radeon 9550, 9800Pro, X800 & X1650 Pro over the past several years & have NEVER installed CCC. I've never had any problems because of NOT having it & I've never missed it. I like to run my systems as lean as possible & CCC hogs resources. Not only that but it can cause problems such as rob is experiencing. If it works for you, great...I don't need it or want it.

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#10
February 14, 2009 at 19:37:30
jam why is it a "Curious card choice though" ? okay here's the thing with the ati cp. . i like using the 'clone main with tv' option in the ati cp. not having it installed would force me to use the 'extend' option from win xp display settings, and i have to drag bsplayer over to a corner of my screen, then hit F for full screen on my plasma. and i lose it from my monitor :) i sometimes sit here and watch the movie while i smoke, then after i finish i continue watching it with my wife and daughters in the living room :)

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#11
February 14, 2009 at 19:48:58
tubesandwires, wow. ok i did a fresh xp install, then installed ALL the mobo drivers, including the ati ones for the onboard video of course. then i installed the ati catalyst control center (which i've been calling ati cp all though this thread).

"If you DID, it installed drivers and other related software programs for the onboard ATI video. You must Un-install those drivers and related programs in Add/Remove Programs in Windows BEFORE you install the all-in-one software installation of the ATI software for the card from it's CD. "

So I guess I messed that up huh. So now i should go and remove ALL video devices from my system by windows control panel, then from device manager, ALL that has to do with any video (besides my surveillance cam capture card ?), don't reboot, stick in the ATI cd that came with my sapphire card, install it all, and reboot ?

"I recommend you DO NOT install anti-malware software before you install the drivers and associated software for the video."

I have kaspersky anti-virus running, no firewall at all. Am I to disable it until the ATI drivers install and reboot ?

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#12
February 15, 2009 at 11:53:36
jam

If you have no need to use it, that's fine, don't install it, but it does have some settings that aren't available if you install just the display drivers.

I DO object to having to install the relatively huge .Net Framework version just for Catalyst, if nothing else uses that version, but if one has the spare disk space, why not.
Catalyst doesn't use much resources unless you actually access it and use non-default settings in it. Anything it loads listed in msconfig - startup can be disabled and it seems it still works fine.
.....

robpetrache

""I recommend you DO NOT install anti-malware software before you install the drivers and associated software for the video.""

"I have kaspersky anti-virus running, no firewall at all. Am I to disable it until the ATI drivers install and reboot ?"

Disabling the resident modules, the part(s) that is(are) running all the time, in anti-malware software in their configuration in the program itself sometimes is not enough - some software will not install properly even if you do that - I recommend you un-install it, and any other anti-malware software, before you install or un-install the ATI software.

"...no firewall at all.."

If the Kaspersy software has a firewall, it automatically switches off the Windows firewall and uses it's own. If it doesn't, it is advisable to leave the Windows one enabled if you are NOT connected to the internet through a router, or use some other software firewall. If you ARE connected to the internet through a router, you MIGHT be able to get away with not using a software firewall - I have that situation and have not used a software firewall on my 98SE Epox system for years, but on the other hand, most malware and hackers set their targets on 2000 and up, and you MAY have problems without one in XP in any case - I use a software firewall in XP, usually the one built into Windows.
......

Un-install everything listed in Add/Remove programs for the ATI video. There is often a "master" entry such as "Un-install ATI video software" or similar - if you see that, use it - it will un-install all or nearly all of the video related entries. You will probably be prompted to reboot - reboot in any case.
Go to Add/Remove Programs again, as many times as you need to.
Make sure all the video related entries are gone - Catalyst, the drivers, etc. - most have an ATI icon - but don't un-install the ATI main chipset drivers - if there are any such video related entries there, un-install them too, and reboot the computer.
If an ATI module for video capture has been installed, you will probably see an entry for DAO without an ATI icon - if you see that un-install it too.
Leave whatever .Net Framework version that was installed from the CD that came with card alone - there may be several in any case - different .Net Framework versions are independant of one another, and you may have other programs that require the same .Net Framework version, or another one.
.....

When you have un-installed all the video related entries in Add/Remove, and have rebooted after un-installing all of them at least once....

Look in Device Manager and see what it lists for the Display Adapter in Device Manager - if it says ANYTHING other than some type of standard VGA adapter, Uninstall all entries that say otherwise, but DO NOT reboot the computer (that sets Windows to a default VGA safe mode), and THEN install the drivers from the CD for the video card; THEN you can reboot.

(OR - you could try loading the lastest versions instead - see [NEXT] below)

Try your system for awhile. If you no longer get the error you're fine.

If you still have problems, you could try

- un-install just Catalyst in Add/Remove, and see if you can still do what you wanted to do in Display - Settings - Advanced somewhere, or similar.

If you can't do what you wanted to do, you can
- uninstall the ATI video related software again, and
[NEXT]
get the newest version of it from the AMD web site. The top download is the all-in-one default - it installs the display drivers and Catalyst and possibly other things.

If that doesn't help, which is unlikely, or if you want to try an alternate solution...

- uninstall the ATI video related software again, and install Omega Radeon drivers - they come with a Control Panel instead of Catalyst that does not require a .Net Framework version to support it, and the Control Panel does all or nearly all the things Catalyst can do.
The drivers and control Panel are fully approved of by ATI, but support is provided for them only on the OmegaDrivers web site, although, you can often use the info on the ATI part of the AMD web site in any case.
The only thing is, he has not finshed making drivers for Vista yet/

http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati.php

http://www.omegadrivers.net/
NVidia or ATI drivers
http://www.omegadrivers.net/omega_d...

A bonus is the Un-install for this software seems to be very well written - it seems to un-install EVERYTHING it installed, unlike most other un-installs.

NOTE that if you need to install support for video capture (or if you have an ATI TV tuner chipset on a card), you still need to go to the AMD site and get the drivers that support that and load them - they're available as a separate stand alone download further down on the page that lists the available drivers.


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#13
February 15, 2009 at 12:55:36
"If the Kaspersy software has a firewall, it automatically switches off the Windows firewall and uses it's own. If it doesn't, it is advisable to leave the Windows one enabled if you are NOT connected to the internet through a router, or use some other software firewall. "

well i don't have KIS, I only use KAV, because I do have a netgear router set up for three years now and the win xp firewall being enabled kept me safe so far.

I fully understaood your instructions, thank you very much for taking out the time to list steps for me. First thing in the morning (it's 11pm here now), I'm going to run those steps and hopefully my problem will be resolved. you all have a great evening.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#14
February 15, 2009 at 22:22:45
ok i used the ati uninstall utility in add/remove programs, the only mistake i made was, i also uninstalled the ati chipset drivers. upon reboot, it found new hardware (vga) so i hit cancel in the win xp 'found new h/w wizard' and then reinstalled the chipset drivers from mobo cd.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#15
February 15, 2009 at 22:33:04
ok device manager shows standard vga card now. i'm installing the ati drivers from the cd. i've unchecked the following: ati parental control, .net framework 2.0, and directX. .. as I already have those, i haven't uninstalled them.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#16
February 16, 2009 at 01:28:07
okay after the ati cd installed, it asked for the final restart, and when i rebooted, all loaded fine

ati icon in tray, all things in place.i lfet home, for 3 hours, and when i came back, all was still OK. then i rightclicked the ati icon in my tray, set my monitor resolution to 1280x960 as usual, then went and opened the catalyst via the tray icon's right click menu. it opened, asked for the advanced/basic view, i chose advanced, checked the 'do not show this message again', then another dialogue window opened, telling me it is now going to open ccc in advanced mode, checked 'don't show this message again' as well, and it opened it to the welcome tab. there i saw options to check for updates, etc, i just closed it and went to eat a pretzel and watch tv for 20mins. when i came back, i found the damn eroor message on my screen. ati ccc has encountered an error and needs to close, sorry for the inconvenience.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#17
February 16, 2009 at 08:54:12
Are you quoting the exact error message?

Is there any info along with the error message? A code, or a mention of what it's conflicting with?

Have you looked at the Event viewer to see if it has any info you can look up?

e.g. Control Panel - Classic View - Administrative Toools - Event Viewer
- look for flagged entries, most likely in Application events, or less likely in System events.

If no there's no additional info you can look up , then it would be quite difficult to figure out what the problem is.

Obviously there's something CCC doesn't get along with. It might be something that isn't loaded all the time, that loads occaisionally. e.g. the auto update of some program that runs in the background once or twice a day.

Did you load some program, such as your kaspersky software, after the CCC appeared to be working fine, and then you got the error message??

E.g. I still use AVG 7.x on my 98SE Epox system. When it's autoupdate is triggered automatically, if you do anything else other than minimal things, it sometimes crashes whatever that(those) other program(s) is(are), e.g. IE (IE needs to close because...), or the computer freezes and I have to hold the power button in until the computer shuts off. It takes at least two minutes or more from the time the update is downoaded to the time the pop up window saying the updates have been successfully installed appears - it hogs the cpu time - if I do nothing else that requires significant cpu time during that time, everything goes fine.

The autoupdate of AVG 8 I have on my XP 2.x ghz computer does not cause problems

I have installed very few video cards other than ATI chipset ones over the many years I have been fiddling with computers.

The ONLY times I have had a problem with Catalyst were:
- the mboard (Asus M2N-E SLI) had a NVidia chipset - I was trying to use a ATI AIW card - something in the NVidia main chipset drivers was conflicting with something in Catalyst - ATI knows about the problem, but it can't be fixed without NVidia changing something about the main chipset drivers, which they often never do (older or newer NVidia main chipset drivers MAY get along with the ATI CCC fine - no luck trying that). I tried the Omega Radeon drivers, the Control Panel worked, but there were still other problems with a few features the card needed to support the TV tuner (I had to also load a few separate ATI driver downloads to support that), and other problems that should NOT have occured with any video card (e.g. black screen reboots in some circumstances, which often reset bios settings to defaults; forever stalls while booting that required you hold in the power button till the mboard shut off; it booted fine the next time) - since I had gotten areally good deal on the AIW card and my friend required a TV tuner, and the AIW card was worth a lot more than the mboard, I gave up on that mboard and got one with an AMD/ATI chipset - no problems with the same AIW card or Catalyst (with the same ram, power supply, and all other cards and devices).
- the system had Roxio EMC 10 loaded - it, and older versions of EMC and other Roxio software, apparently does/do not get along with the DAO module the ATI software loads if your ATI chipset card has video capture capability and the ATI software was loaded to support that. You can un-install just the DAO module, but some features of the ATI software may then not work properly.

......

If you can't pin down what causes the problem (it's probably something other than the Catalyst version itself), try the other stuff I mentioned.


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#18
February 16, 2009 at 13:03:04
"jam why is it a "Curious card choice though" ?"

It's just that I'm sure there are other Radeon cards in the same price range that use GDDR3 rather than GDDR2.


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#19
February 16, 2009 at 17:05:52
you're probably right jam.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#20
February 16, 2009 at 22:40:13
the ccc on my cd is ver 8.9
i went and got the new ati ccc, ver 9.1, and installed that after removing the old again. so far, so good. it's been over 6 hours. kaspersky is paused for that same amt of time.i din't think it has to do with kaspersky though, i just think the new ccc version probably was patched as far as that problem was concerned, whatever it was. i'll give it the rest of today and then resume antivirus protection too.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#21
February 17, 2009 at 07:33:52
As I said in response 8...
"(you CAN have problems if you change the display drivers version and it's not compatible with the Catalyst version)"

The display drivers version changes more often than the Catalyst version does. You have the option of loading newer (or older) display drivers separately, whether you originally installed Catalyst or not, and sometimes Windows Updates will list an optional display drivers version newer than what you have if you search using Custom. You can look up previous driver versions on the AMD web site as well as current ones. If the display drivers version you are using is not listed along with the Catalyst version you're using, you CAN experience problems with Catalyst, if your Catalyst version is older or newer than that listed along with the display drivers version.


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#22
February 17, 2009 at 09:49:50
well, all in all, it's been a humbling experience and i can't believe this crap? Updating to a different version of catalyst has definitely fixed everything for good. I turned kaspersky back on, i'm getting no error messages. it is ALL good. i think all the versions of ccc should be backwards compatible with all display drivers, and all the .net framework versions as well. But then again, all teenage girls should be virgins, pre-teens should listen to their parents, and I just found out my 13 yr old daughter has a boyfriend. I don't even know what to do I'm freakin the f out.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#23
February 17, 2009 at 11:23:28
It's good to hear you seemed to have solved the problem!

I appreciate your feedback.

There are too many topic threads on this site that I have no idea whether the person who originally posted solved their problem, because either they never posted again, or they started another Topic about the same thing and I never saw that, or because they did not post again I or we could not offer other suggestions. Personally, I'll keep trying to help until the problem is solved or an impass has been reached - there have been some Topic threads here I've participated in that have had over a hundred posts sometimes, and sometimes after the first few I'm the only one answering.

ATI will replace software on their web site with a newer version, or patch an existing version, (sometimes when you click on a link the download has been removed because they're working on it) or suggest you use an alternate version or tweak certain settings in FAQs on their web site e.g. for a game problem, if they get enough complaints about (a) problem(s), within a reasonable amount of time, IF they can do something about the problem (it may be caused by other software - if the other software maker will not co-operate with ATI [e.g. NVidia, Roxio], ATI may not be able to fix the problem) but obviously if the ATI software on a CD is buggy, they can't do anything about that, other than suggesting you try a newer or older version.
The same thing applies to a lesser extent for Intel video, and most other video chipset makers.
NVidia, on the other hand, has a reputation for NOT fixing problems with their video drivers and main chipset drivers, especially if it causes problems with ATI's software, ATI being their arch enemy, since before the predecessor to NVidia became NVidia! If loading newer or older versions of their drivers doesn't help, and if loading the Omega NVidia drivers doesn't help, there is often no solution at all, unless you can find a workaround somewhere.

FYI
Origin and history of ATI
Up to R200 series
April 11, 2001
http://firingsquad.com/features/ati...

They stopped making all their video cards in Canada by the end of 2000 or so (my Rage Fury 128 bit card was made in Canada in 1999). They merged with AMD in 2005 or so.


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#24
February 17, 2009 at 11:31:06
My problem is definitely gone, ATI works fine now. I wonder, who has the edge, ATI or nVidia ? marketwise.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#25
February 17, 2009 at 12:16:34
"I wonder, who has the edge, ATI or nVidia ? marketwise."

That depends on what you want a card to be able to do, what you're comparing, and what you're willing to spend. Sometimes specs and comparisons have no bearing on what a user actually notices.
When you look a graphical perfomance comparisons, there is often only a few percent difference for similar chipsets, and sometimes some tests are optimized in NVidia's favour, sometimes they're optimized in ATI's favour.
They take turns having the top card line available at any one time, overall.

If the customer suppport were equal, it might be a toss-up for me which maker's video chipset card I would buy at any one time, but that's not the case.
ATI's web site and customer support and response to problems has always been and still is a lot better than NVidia's.

ATI's 4870 is the current top ATI hot chipset, and it costs less than comparable NVidia offerings. The 4850 chipset is almost as good and is cheaper yet.

I don't think NVidia currently has anything better than two 4870 cards in Crossfire mode (the mboard has to have an AMD/ATI main chipset in order to use Crossfire), or a 4870 X2 card (two chipsets on one card) in Crossfire mode, or if they do you pay more for it.

On the other hand, I fully admit I'm biased.

We certainly benefit from them competing with each other, which tends to drive prices down faster than if only one maker dominated.

You can often get a good idea of how good a particular chipset is by reading the user reviews on the web, such as on the newegg or tigerdirect web sites in the ads for the cards that have that chipset, if there are a reasonable amount of reviews (there are always some reviews that should be ignored - people who have problems are more likely to post a review than those who don't, so the numbers of them are often disproportionate; or they fried the card by doing something stupid).


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#26
February 17, 2009 at 12:52:55
Why Visiontek switched from NVidia to ATI chipsets:
August 18, 2002
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html...
April 15, 2003
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html...

I've never heard of ATI EVER releasing as many defective chipsets as NVidia did then.


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#27
February 17, 2009 at 14:43:33
good points made. my main question i think revolved more around the actual market intake as far as dollars are concerned. who do you think has a larger bussiness figure, ati or nvidia? and now let me explain why the sprung curiosity on my part.. i've been building my own systems for around 6 years now. and chose ati from the getgo, mainly due to the fact of the price, ati has more reasonable pricing. one thing i need to mention, i do not ever play games on my pc, don't have any, never did. now for these past 4 months i've been building/repairing/debugging systems for others. and honestly, most of these people are low-end gamers. meaning they want a gaming pc but at low cost, they prefer a cheap overclocked system. and i'd say 75% of them want nvidia cards. is nvidia better as a gaming chipset ? i've been hearing talk of ati being a leader when it comes to graphics computing (e.g. CAD software), but nvidia may have an edge on FPS standards, which applies to gaming. the way I see it, if an user who's likely to spend the least possible dollar for a system chooses the more expensive chipset (nvidia), then there may be a large gap as far as fps quality between ati and nvidia, in nvidia's favor. i've never used nvidia for myself. and now setting up these systems for people, i've noticed that nvidia uses some crappy general forceware drivers for chunks of chipsets at once. another thing i've noticed, and our friend jam made me keep an eye on this, are the nvidia nforce motherboard chipsets. you know what? they are good. i mean, they are better than sis and via. i don't think they are better than Intel though, everytime i work on intel chipsets mobos, it's smooth sailing all around.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#28
February 17, 2009 at 16:32:43
I really have not paid much attention to whether NVidia is doing better than ATI. Since ATI has merged with AMD, it would be more difficult to determine that, I assume.
I will insist on buying AMD cpus and ATI video unless someone I'm building a system for requests otherwise - I've often shown them that the ATI video in the same price range is as good or better than they thought the NVidia chipset card they were thinking of getting is.
The people I help out want to get the most bang for their buck and they aren't interested in paying a lot more for the very best they can get - in my book the AMD cpus and ATI video delivers that result for fewer bucks or the same bucks.

I used to play the later Dos games, which were much better than the Windows based ones at the time, but I have chosen not to waste my time playing games since.

I don't know which are better for games these days, but I have gathered it's like the situation with comparisons of similar chipsets - some are optimized for NVidia chipsets, some are optimized for ATI chipsets, (and some are probably optimized for Intel chipsets but fewer than in the past). I would think that if you try games that are opmtimized for both types, overall there should be very little difference if any for similar chipsets.

However -
Games are often have leading edge software that has more bugs in it than most programs do - they are well known to NOT work properly on every system that meets or exceeds the minimum requirements for the game.

E.g. I got a good deal on a 4850 card for a friend's recent system and installed it for him. His son thought the problems he had with some particular online game were due to the mboard having onboard video, on the upstairs computer that has an Asus M3A78-EMH HDMI mboard (AM2+), it had 2gb of ram at the time, and a 6400+ 64X2 cpu - the game worked fine on the 8 year old computer downstairs that has an Intel mboard D850MV, an ATI AIW card, and 512mb of RIMM ram. Both computers are using XP Home.
The 4850 card, and 1 more gb of ram, made no difference for that paricular game on the M3A78-EMH HDMI system.

I don't know where Intel chipsets rate these days, but I would think they are certainly not the top dog anymore overall, and I would think they probably come in third in comparison to AMD/ATI and NVidia chipsets overall. They may still have an edge in some areas, such as the math co-processing, but what percentage of people need to use a CAD program or a high end graphics program, etc?

Via and Sis are way behind the big three these days, and have been for a few years running. I have, and have had, older Via chipset mboards, but no SiS ones of my own.

ATI also uses the same drivers for a large bunch of video chipsets - the difference is they usually actually work well with all of them, and if they don't they almost always fix the problems, eventually.
......

Regarding your 13 year old daughter.
I have no children, so I have no direct experience, but I have observed some things that happened to peers and to other people's children. If she was a reasonable person when a pre-pubescent girl, she will probably still be a reasonable person. On the other hand, I've seen such girls sometimes behave very irrationally once their hormones kick in fully, at least for their teen years.
Recent research has found that a teen's brain undergoes changes that are not fully completed until they are older, so they sometimes don't and can't think about the consequences of their actions as rationally as adults do. Chances are as much as 50% she will behave similar to the way her mother, or less likely your sister if you have one, behaved at that age and in the older teen years. Above all, stay friends with her as much as she will let you. Deliberately try not to be the guy who is yelling at her and telling her what she must do more often than praising her and encouraging her. If you get upset, bite your tounge and say nothing until you have calmed down and have thought of something better to say. Frequently encourage her to take precautions if there is any possibilty she could get pregnant before she's old enough or mature enough to handle the consequences, whether to do so is against your religion or not - there is no logical reason these days for her to end up getting pregnant before she's as ready as she'll ever be for that (unfortunately, sometimes the effects of hormones overcome logic).


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#29
February 17, 2009 at 19:40:20
ok i think i omitted mentioning i was referring to older boards when i talked about the chipsets. older as in socket A, and 478. most of the boards i work on are of that age, and so far nvidia and intel have been the best chipsets to my sense of "feeling" a chipset. as far as gpu's go, i'll stay with ati and recommend it as I did until now. and as far as platforms, i must admit i am a bit disappointed about the new 775 Intels, it's what I have on my pc and I feel it's not giving me all that I want. pentium D 2.80, 2gb ram, and the video adapter in this topic. i'll be honest man, last week I set up an MSI-6777 mobo, with a barton core 1.917ghz athlon xp, and that system was nose to nose with mine. probelm is, i paid 4 times as much for mine. i'm beginning to wonder what the deal is. i use kingston ram, i don't like compromising in general. what's hooked up to my pc? a surveillance cam that's riveted to my outside wall, a ups, my 5.1 speakers, and a printer. that's no load at all, aside from the times the surveillance cam detects movement and records on my hd. i can tell by the cpu fan revving up, everytime a person walks by my house :)

about my older daughter.. she's been great up until this age, she's still great now, and we talk. i think i've made some mistakes lately, related to her. she did/does real well in school, and this past holiday season i treated her to .. certain things kids find to be cool, like a cellphone, an mp4 player, a new pc, and lots of stylish clothing. i did it all to reward her, and she fully deserves to be rewarded, but it's kinda kicking me in the butt now, because she's looking al stylish and flashy and that has to attract boys. she's been in my office for like 3 hrs today, explaining to me that she has no boyfriend, and that she's never even held hands with a boy let alone kiss or whatnot. it's kind of uncomfortable talking to her about stuff like that man, and even harder to accept she's growing :) she came up in here and put her celly in my desk drawer, telling me that's the reason why that boy called, because she HAS a phone :) and that she no longer needs it. it's silly, but seeing her react maturely in that way, I almost asked her to take the phone back but I didn't. I just asked her to spend a little less time in the mirrorin the morning, and we'll be cool.

i'm heading back to my shaky sound topic, got news there too.

I always say it's best to doublecheck.


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#30
February 17, 2009 at 23:21:11
Via used to make some competetive main chipsets - I have socket A with a KT600 chipset (Asus A7V-600) that's pretty good. I used to have an Asus A7V-133 (socket A), that has another pretty good Via chipset, and a similar Gigabyte mboard - 7ZMMH - the same chipset except with S3 onboard graphics built in.
NVidia didn't exist as NVidia when your and my Via MVP3 mboard was made, which was considered to be a good chipset - what became NVidia made only graphics cards and graphics chipsets back them. ATI didn't make main chipsets until about 2002? When they merged with AMD the current ATI main chipsets and those in development were renamed with AMD model names, hence me calling them AMD/ATI main chipsets.

I don't know much about the Intel cpus, but I thought the Pentium Ds were the more modest of the ones currently available - kinda like getting a Celeron instead of a Pentium CPU in the older days.

Up until the last few years, and for several years before that, the AMD cpu's were much more efficient than the original Pentium P4s so, after the original Athlons, it wasn't a valid comparison to compare just the ghz at which the cpu runs at anymore, and AMD starting using a model number as well that gives you an idea of how it compares to the original P4s, and emphasizing the model number rather than the ghz it runs at - e.g. a 6400+ runs at 3.2ghz, but it's comparable in some ways in overall performance to the original P4 running at 6.4ghz, hence the model number.


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