OK, next little (hopefully) problem. Trying to get Vista to do an automated backup to a 2nd internal drive I get an error saying it's failed (0x8004230f). Googling around for the problem provided a solution of restarting the pc & doing it manually, which works, but that's not a lot of use if I'm trying to do the backup overnight. So, I either need a way of restarting the computer automatically just before backup starts (the machines normally on 24/7) or any other suggestion of a solution.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."

I use Acronis True Image 10 and it never lets me down.
Fully automated backups of drive image, as well file, folder, Outlook and user settings.
Some don't like to pay for backup software, but at $50US it's worth every cent and very small % cost of your system. A 20 gig Vista instalation takes about 5 minutes to image accross to another internal hdd.

Thanks for reply. I know there are many backup alternatives, but I would like to know why the Vista built-in & paid for system doesn't work. I only want to back up changing data, not the whole drive, so speed isn't an issue - XP backup still works fine so why doesn't Vista?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."

The problem with Vista (or XP) backup is that it works WITHIN the given OS. (This is also true to a certain extent with Acronis). These Built in systems also don't do a COMPLETE back up.

One of the best ways to back up your system is with a completely independent disk image system that can boot up and run all on it's own WITHOUT any OS.... and therefore sees any and all OS's as just simply data that is no less or more important than any other data on the HDD.

Other systems work most of the time. But if you have a complete melt down and can't even boot up your OS then a built in system won't do much good.

Independent disk imager's give a BYTE for BYTE replication regardless of the OS (XP... Vista...Linux...etc) or data on the HDD.

I use BOOTitNG which boots up on its own and images WHATEVER is on the drive/partition... but there are others that will operate this way as well.

Unfortunately... finding a diskimager that operates outside any OS... AND ... can do backups automatically.... I believe will be hard to locate.

Unfortunately I do not want a complete image - just a backup of important data. IMHO it's pointless having a complete system backup that might not be used for months/years and, should it be used, you end up with a restoration that is just a mirror of the last known 'good' state - including all the accumulated junk. My last XP system has been running, without a glitch, for the last 4-5 years but should the worst have happened I would have preferred to have just started with a clean system install, updated, added my data & away I go. The system utilised by imaging is catered for far better with RAID1 - instantaneous re-setup, replace the failed drive & away you go.

I want a system, like the one that worked pefectly in XP, that just backs up my data (or my customer's data) quickly, easily & unobtrusively. There's obviously a glitch in Vista's system that needs the restart before backup occurs so I just want the automatic shutdown option or a resolution of the glitch.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."

"IMHO it's pointless having a complete system backup that might not be used for months/years and, should it be used, you end up with a restoration that is just a mirror of the last known 'good' state - including all the accumulated junk."

===========================================

Months... years??? Are you kidding me????

I replace my system with a disk image about once every 3 weeks!!

I have my system set up with all of my programs and customized the way I want then I do a disk image. I don't even bother with things like defrag, reg cleaning... etc. I just reload my image. It's like having a brand new computer that is EXACTLY the way it was when you did the disk image. Any time I want to install a new program for keeps, I reload my original image just to make sure everything is clean and new, install my program, customize to my liking... then image.

In short... I use disk imaging in the exact same manner you use the internal restore system. The disk imaging however does it cleaner, safer, and much more complete.

"I replace my system with a disk image about once every 3 weeks!!" !!!

Unfortunately, as I run a business I haven't got the time/inclination/need to restore my system every 3 weeks. I don't install/uninstall un-needed software, I just use it as I want to & I have never had to reinstall - hence my reference to months & years so No, I am not kidding you!! - maybe if I started screwing around with the system then I would feel the need for regular complete reinstalls. Only reason I'm moving to Vista is because some of my clients are doing so & I need to make sure that we are all running compatible software, otherwise I'd happily stick with un-reinstalled XP for another 4-5 years.

All I need is to be able to use the backup system that is supplied with XP/Vista in order to do regular backups of my changing data - nothing else. I'm hoping that the problem in Vista will be sorted with the release of SP1, but was hoping there would be a quick fix in the meantime

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."

I use this on Vista it's got me out of a
pickle or two:

http://www.eazsolution.com/en/eazpr...

... it will take snapshots of your drive(s)
... you wo'nt even notice which space it takes and its very fast.

... its ok as long as you do'nt Dos a lot.
you can download 15 day Demo here to.

Re-imaging your system every 3 weeks is stupidly overkill. I'm sorry but it just is. I went through a phase where I would reinstall Windows every few weeks/months, but there's just no point.

"Learn to maintain a computer properly, and you need never reinstall again" is a golden piece of advice I give and go buy.

"Re-imaging your system every 3 weeks is stupidly overkill. I'm sorry but it just is. "
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It takes about 15 minutes to reload an image, how can that be overkill??

I don't use the uninstall feature... it always leaves stuff behind in the registry. You can "learn to maintain a computer properly" all you want, but you CAN'T change this. Just for a quick example... this can be seen with any trial download. After your trial period has expired, try uninstall and then reinstall and see what happens. Even the internal system restore doesn't work. Things get left behind (and nicely hidden) with an uninstall or system restore.... enough of this and your registry is a mess and your computer slows down.

I don't need to use registry cleaners.... they can be pretty dangerous anyway.

Defraging takes a long time and its hard on the drives... I only defrag ONCE... before I take an image

I never need to "re-install" windows/vista because my image is clean and new.... but it's the setting up and customizing all the programs again that's the REAL pain. You don't have to do ANY of that with an image... so, what amounts to a complete re-install, takes about 15 minutes.

Then of course you throw in the other little bonuses of imaging.... I don't ever have to worry about viruses, crashing HDD's... etc. If a HDD crashes, I run to the store, get a new one, and in 15 minutes I'm up and running again without losing a thing.

In short... I'm protected 7 ways from Sunday as the saying goes. I fail to see how these distinct advantages can be labeled "overkill"??

Thanks for responses - it's interesting seeing the different perspectives. I am definitely not a 'hobby-tinkerer' so I have no need to reinstall regularly. I use commercial, non-trial, software that I have paid for legitimately & which run fine. If I need a newer version of anything I'll make sure that it's what I need before downloading/installing so that I don't need to uninstall/reinstall. I use my PCs for business and as a tool, not as a plaything so all I need is a method of regularly & unobtrusively backing up my data. I don't want to have to buy an extra program to do what backup in XP did quite happily for the last few years. I was, unfortunately, pushed into changing to Vista before I would have liked to & I'm now suffering the consequences - bizarrely, the solution I'm using at the moment is to work on the Vista system, use briefcase (which took a bit of sorting out in itself on Vista) to update to my old XP machine & then using the backup system on that. It will do until M$ hopefully sort out the Vista backup problem.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."

Just as another small side-point, Vista's Backup & Restore facility includes the option of doing an image of the main drive onto another drive. I tried it out of interest - a 53Gb installation took just over 12 minutes to complete. It took up the same amount of space on the back-up - no compression so no risk of data loss as far as I'm concerned, & it's included in the OS, no need to buy an extra program. Though I'll probably never use it again, it was an interesting exercise. Not surprised that Norton et al are getting a bit worried by what M$ might include next...

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us..."