Hi,
I just inherited a old computer for my kids that has both win nt and 95 on it. I'd like to remove nt and the partition to make room on the hard drive. could anyone explain to me how to remove the partition and nt. I have a copy of win 95 and for nt just the 3 setup disks but no cd. any help?
thanks
mike d

Post back with details of partitions (file formats, which OS is where); this 'may' have a bearing on how you lose the NT area... If NT = ntfs then it's not quite as easy as if it's all fat16; but it should still be possible, and at the same time retain '95 installation.

You can disable the NT boot-loader by booting up with a DOS/'9x boot-disk and typing (at the a:>\ prompt)

sys c:

and then press Enter. Remove boot-disk and you boot only to '95. But you will still have NT around - somewhere. With the info requested above it should be possible to give you a simple how to get rid of it (NT).

how do i determine if it is ntfs or fat16?
mike
thanks for the help

Use a 'DOS/9x' boot-disk with Fdisk util included. Any proper '9x boot-disk will include Fdisk/format utils; similarly a DOS (preferably 6x) version. If you have the '95 version use that?

Just run Fdisk and inspect partitions; ntfs will show up as non-DOS.

Fdisk tutorial - in case you're not sure of all steps to inspect partitions etc:

http://www.compguystechweb.com/index.html

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q255/8/67.ASP (probably the same source used for the link above...).

If NT 'is' ntfs, and it's in the Extended partition area (very likely...?) then without you have an NT CD you are obliged to use an NT3.1 Resource Kit util to remove the ntfs Extended-partition/logical-drive. Fdisk will only remove ntfs (non-DOS) partitions from a Primary partition; it will not remove it from an Extended-partition/logical-drive area.

Delpart is a freebie 27K download - available at many sites; e.g.

http://hercules.lss.ksu.edu/download/MSSTUFF/index.htm

To use:

Boot up with a DOS/'9x boot-disk; at the a:>\ prompt run the

sys c:

command as described in my earlier reply - to reset mbr (master boot record) to the DOS/'9x version, and thus disable access to NT. Then change floppies and) run the delpart util; follow on-screen prompts carefully. You should be able to select the (ntfs) partition/logical-drive to remove. Do not remove the wrong one(s)... otherwise you are into a total re-install '95...

You can add the util to the '9x/DOS boot-disk if you wish, and at the a:>\ prompt run the util from that floppy; saves a disk change...

Perhaps post back with results of Fdisk partition inspections first?

I'm in the UK at present (sometimes I'm in N.Am....) so I will probably not pick up on this any further tonite (it's almost mid-nite here); will look in again tomorrow Sunday. Nonetheless in them meantime, others may well come in and help you too?

here are the results of the fdisk
Display Partition Info:
Part C:1 Status:A Type:PriDOS Vol: AP MBytes: 890 System:FAT16 Usage: 86%
Part C:2 Status:(nothing) Type: ExtDOS Volume Level:(nothing) Mbytes: 150 System:(nothing) Usage:14%.
Would this mean that part c2 is also FAT16 or because it reports nothing, then NTFS.?

I'll read the references you gave while waiting to hear back. Thanks again.
mike d

T'would seem NT is installed as ntfs.

Other ways to confirm this... (These are more of an exercise and useful to be familiar with; useful to do anyway at this time?)

If by chance you 'can' boot to NT - do so and then open MyComputer. You should see both '95 and the NT drives displayed, i.e. both '95 (C: ) and the NT drive (D: ?). Right click on the icon for NT drive, open its Properties - and it will say what the file format is. As an excerise, do the same for the '95 drive and you'll see it's fat16.

If you cannot boot to NT, then boot to '95 and again open MyComputer; then right click on all drive icons (ie. check its Properties) in turn (ignore the CDROM). If (by chance) the NT drive is showing, then it will 'not' be ntfs; but I'm pretty sure NT is on an ntfs partition. '95 will not show the ntfs drive (partition); but NT will show both the '95 (fat16) and itself (ntfs).

Likwise you could boot to '95, open Explorer and see if you can see the NT drive/partition. If you can see it, then it's not ntfs; if you canot see it then it is ntfs...

'Exercise' over...

Presuming NT is ntfs..

M$ offer their way of removing the ntfs partition; it requires the 3 setup floppies - which you say you have. It does not insist on the CD being present...

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q104205

and proceed from first section (NT3.5x/NT4) item #5

Or - courtesy of John Savills faq's (an earlier edition) - and perhaps a little clearer:

"Q. How do you delete a NTFS partition?

A. You can boot off of the three NT installation disks and follow the instructions below:

Read the license agreement and press F8
Select the NTFS partition you wish to delete
Press L to confirm
Press F3 twice to exit the NT setup

Usually a NTFS partition can be deleted using FDISK (delete non-DOS partition), however this will not work if the NTFS partition is in the extended partition."

If this doesn't work for you then you're into the delpart.exe approach.

Once you have removed the ntfs partition, you can recover (re-establish) the Extended partition using Fdisk/format utils via the '9x/DOS boot-disk. Format it as fat16.

It looks like this drive is around 1Gig overall?

Use the re-established partition for data?

If you have '95A then it will only operate as fat16. If by chance it is OSR2 (B or C) then it could be converted to fat32 and thus give 'slightly' more overall disk capacity.

There is a Symantec util - Gdisk - which is 'their' version of Fdisk. It's said to be more 'powerful?' (i.e. flexible) than conventional Fdisk. It's part of the Symantec Ghost util. It is said to remove ntfs partitions - regardless of where they are. Haven't used it (yet) so can't comment/advise further in that regard. Gdisk is around - (still as) a freebie download (with instructions) at:

http://www.drd.dyndns.org/index2.html

(It does not seem to be at the Symantec site as freebie any longer?)

Be careful to ensure you do choose/select the ntfs partition for removal... Remove the wrong one and it's gone for good... Delpart.exe is more or less a one-way trip for the partition involved.

Another note: Just as Fdisk will not remove ntfs from an Extended location, it seems that delpart.exe will not remove an ntfs logical-drive... but it will remove the 'whole' ntfs partition (which means all the logical-drives go - regardless of their respective file formats)... Came across that 'little nugget' during a recent trawl for more specifics on delpart...

DRDOS version of Fdisk is also said to remove ntfs from Extended partitions; similarly some say a Linux boot-disk will do the job. Not having used either can't comment further.

Post back with how you get on?

Update,
the nt disks were useless, just sent me to a guided setup with no custom options.
i then used delpart and was able to delete the partition without problem.
using fdisk i made a new partition of the last 14% of the c: drive. unfortunately fdisk doesn't seem to give an option for naming that partition and automatically designates it c: 2. I am unable to figure out how to use format with a name like c: 2. concerned that it will format my whole c: drive. even that wouldn't be so bad, if i could then just reinstall windows 95 on the whole disk, but doing a trial run with booting with the startup disk for 95, i am unable to get my computer to recognize the cdrom as drive d:.
my current questions are:
1)any way to partition the excess area of my c: drive giving it the designation e:? i looked at gdisk but with it's cryptic instructions wasn't sure if that would work.
2) any way to get me cdrom drivers on the startup disk so that i can just format the whole c: drive and reload win 95?
thanks again for all your help, its incredible.
mike d

I don't follow how it is you have two C: partitions...? That one is beyond me...

Before starting over - more below on that...
some info on drive letter assignments:

Fdisk creates the partitions; 'DOS/Windows' issues/assigns letters. With just one HD present, Primary partition is designated first as C: then Extended becomes D: . If you have two or more logical-drives in an Extended partition then they become D: , E: , and so on...

If you have two hard-drives - each with a Primary, the HD-1 Primary = C: , HD-2 Primary = D: ; then Extended on HD-1 gets assigned; HD-2 Extended gets assigned after all partitions/logical-drives have been assigned on HD-1.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q51978

explains 'a little further'.

DOS/Windows-2x/3x/'9x/ME can create/handle only one Primary; the NT family can create/handle upto four Primary partitions...

Quite how/why you have C-1 and C-2...?

If anyone else can shed light on this I'd really like to know how/why.

Re' starting over....

http://www.bootdisk.com

has a range of boot-disks; with CDROM drivers.

Go to the first link (bootdisks by w0rm) i.e.:

http://dos.li5.org/

and scroll down to the bottom of the page; all disks are listed there.

They are in effect 'images' that have to be extracted (they self-extract - just click on the file) to another floppy. Initially download each to the hard-drive; run each from the location you stored them in; you will be prompted for a blank (formatted) floppy in each case. Label them clearly???

Get '95A and B versions - that way you will have the one for the version of '95 you have? Also perhaps '98 version - useful to have around? Also get the DOS6.22 - very useful item to have at all times.... They all come with CDROM drivers. You can install '95 with its own boot-disk, or via the DOS 6.22 boot-disk; I've done it both routes.

Run Fdisk (you have the how to links already - and there are a couple of more sites listed below that include similar) to remove 'all' partitions; or use depart again to do job?

Also run the command:

fdisk /mbr

from a boot-disk; just to clear out the mbr... This is not essential, but bearing in mind your current dilemma of two C: partitions, I'd do it... (I really would like to understand the how/why of two C: partitions...)

Then reconfigure drive (Fdisk/format utils) to have both Primary and Extended partitions. Primary is for OS/apps/utils; Extended for data. You can also copy over the '95 folder off the CD to the drive (ideally to the Extended partition) and run setup from there. Usually faster/smoother install; also '95 will automatically go there in future whenever it needs files - instead of prompting for the CD... There are more details about this approach on Bob's site (see below).

Perhaps make C: = 60-75% of the drive; Extended the remainder?

If using 95B or C (i.e. OSR2) then perhaps opt to go fat32 rather than fat16; means better use of disk space - more storage capacity.

If there is anything on the system at present you want to keep - backup/store elsewhere?

Another useful how to site re' (re-)installing '9x;.

Bob's site:

http://www.btinternet.com/~robert.bale1/formatinstall.htm

Includes most of the above - and a lot more...

Terri's site:

http://terrikaduck.netfirms.com/index1.html

has simliar useful info too.

You already have the "compuguys" link.

Have to agree with you re 'Gdisk; the instructions do seem somewhat cryptic... Haven't used it - yet...

Hope you the above helps you to get this drive into one single unconfigured state, and then reconfigured into two partitions as outlined above and then a re-install...

Finally if this system is to go 'on-line' perhaps include the (Zonelabs) Zonealarm util? Also some form of (anti-) Spyware util; Lavasoft's Ad-Aware seems to be the flavour of the month, judging by recent posts on this issue....?

Post back with how you get on?

Thanks for the help. All is working now.

your're welcome...