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Win 98SE Boot problem

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Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 29, 2008 at 13:49:39 Pacific
OS: Win 98SE
CPU/Ram: 3.5 Ghz / 256 megs
Product: Intel Springdale - G Chip
Comment:

Problem: Win 98SE freezes on WinLogo screen on start-up.
History: Some months ago my son tried to load a PC game onto my D:drive that was too large for the available space, freezing the system. Since then, each time I started up, scandisk tried to check the D:drive for errors, and froze unless I pressed ESC.
Cause of crash: Last night, finally tired of this problem, I used scandisk to check the C: and D:drive. I did this after unchecking all the items in 'selective startup' in msconfig. Essentially this ran scandisk in Safe Mode.
The scan on C:drive was clean. I then started a thorough scan (surface scan) on D:drive, with fix errors set to Auto. The scan ran through the night. This morning after briefly noting the scan report screen to see that all errors had been fixed, I tried to get back to Windows to reset msconfig to normal mode. The screen froze. I powered down and restarted. The system froze at the Winlogo screen. I restarted again a number of times. Same problem.
I restarted using the Ctrl key to get to Set-up, and found I could not even startup in Safe Mode. I tried 'step-by-step'confirmation. All okay until it gets to 'win' command, and then the system freezes. The GUI will not load.
If I run 'edit' from the DOS prompt, and try to access the D:drive then the system freezes. I can only assume that the D:drive is causing the problem.
Any help in sorting this out will be much appreciated. I have spent the whole day trying to sort this on my own, with no success :-(
Thanks.

Shoot for the Heart



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Response Number 1
Name: Fist (by fmwap)
Date: August 29, 2008 at 21:15:38 Pacific
Reply:

Win 98 can restore the registry from the command line (as long as system restore is not disabled) try this:

Press F8 on bootup / select 'Command prompt only'
Enter: scanreg /restore

It'll bring up a list of dates, pick one before you'd made changes.

BTW, this may fix it temporarily, but it'll probably just get worse over time. You might just want to format/reinstall.


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Response Number 2
Name: DAVEINCAPS
Date: August 29, 2008 at 23:01:50 Pacific
Reply:

If the D: drive is a separate physical drive (and not a second partition on the same drive as c:) temporarily disconnect its data and power cable and boot up with just C:. Does the problem goes away?


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Response Number 3
Name: melee5
Date: August 29, 2008 at 23:02:28 Pacific
Reply:

You've run out of free disk space. A registry restore won't help much with that problem.

One option you may not have thought about before would be to get a another hard drive and install windows on it. Once you have that installation working fine, attach this hard drive as a slave and recover your email, photos, etc.

And THEN squash this drive flat and reinstall windows clean as already suggested by Fist (by fmwap).

Lee


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Response Number 4
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 29, 2008 at 23:34:33 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for the reply, Fist.

I had already tried the 'registry restore from scanreg' option, going back on the last three days, one-by-one, where there was a successful bootup. No luck there.

Other things I have tried:
I still have the original Win98SE software disk (OEM), which is not bootable. I cannot seem to access the CD-Rom drive, or at least I don't know how to.

At some point in the distant past I made a Win 98 Startup disk. I think it was for this computer. When I boot with this disk, choosing the 'start the computer with CD-Rom support' it finishes on the following screen and the cursor remains blinking:

PCI bus scan complete

AHA-1540/1542/1640 ASPI Manager for DOS
Version 3.36S
Copyright 1989-1997 Adaptec, Inc

AIC-7890/91 ASPI Manager for DOS
Version 1.00S
Copyright 1989-1997 Adaptec, Inc

PCI bus scan complete

ASPI CD-ROM Driver for DOS
Version 4.01S
Copyright 1989-1997 Adaptec, Inc

Microsoft RAMdrive version 3.06 virtual disk E:
Disk size: 2,048k
Sector size: 512 bytes
Allocation unit: 2 sectors
Directory entries: 64

With the cursor flashing, I cannot type in anything else. I cannot access the CD-Rom drive. Being reasonably computer illiterate, I do not know how to load or do anything from that point on with a RAMdrive. So I power down and startup again.

Using 'edit' from the DOS prompt I have checked that my C:drive is still okay, and I can access all the files without a problem, or at least I can look at them. I can also see the drive letters A: and D:. If I try to access D:drive the system freezes with a blinking cursor. I assume this proves the drive is damaged or inaccessible. I cannot see E: or F: (my CD-Rom drives).

I have also scanned the C:drive from the DOS prompt, and it reports as okay.

Using ESC on startup, I have gone into the 'Easy Boot' menu, and have alternatively chosen both the 'Floppy' and the 'CDROM' options. I have not been able to access the CDROM via that route either.

Using the DEL key I have gone into the Phoenix - Award BIOS CMOS Setup utility. To my untrained eye, everything there looks okay. The C: and D:drives are recognised and the drive sizes appear to report correctly. Not willing to mess with the BIOS, I have not made any changes here.

Question 1: I read somewhere on this board that someone suggested a freeze on the WinLogo at start-up could indicate a graphics card problem? Any thoughts on that?

Question 2: I personally think that the system is freezing when it tries to access the problematic D:drive. Can I disable the drive from the DOS-prompt? (I have tried unplugging the slave cable - everything hangs if I do that.) Is there any other way I can boot-up to Windows while bypassing the D:drive?

Conclusion: I am dazed and confused. Lost in limbo. I have gone through frustration on my way to to desperation. Resignation looms ahead, but I'd rather not get there. :-) I am truly desperate to get the drives back as this is the administration computer for my office. Please help.

Thanks in advance...

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 5
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 29, 2008 at 23:52:46 Pacific
Reply:

Reply to Lee:

Thanks Lee for your help.

Lee said: "One option you may not have thought about before would be to get another hard drive and install windows on it. Once you have that installation working fine, attach this hard drive as a slave and recover your email, photos, etc."

This might be the best option. How would I do that? Please give me a quick overview of the procedure involved, as I am reasonably computer illiterate, and this is not something I have done before.

Thanks for the help.
Michael.

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 6
Name: DAVEINCAPS
Date: August 29, 2008 at 23:54:47 Pacific
Reply:

So D: is a separate physical drive?

You can't disable it from dos. You CAN set its drive type to NONE in cmos/bios setup.


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Response Number 7
Name: DAVEINCAPS
Date: August 30, 2008 at 00:12:59 Pacific
Reply:

Oh, and you say you can't access your cdrom drives (E: and F:) after booting from the bootdisk. The bootdisk is creating a ramdrive at e: and bumping up your cdrom drive letters to F: and G:.

First of all, if the bootdisk didn't detect them, it would have given an error message when loading oakcdrom.sys and mscdex.exe. Watch the screen when the bootdisk is loading. It'll either show the cdrom drive letters or give an error message.

If it's not seeing either one then check in cmos/bios setup and make sure both IDE controllers are enabled. Make sure their data cable is in good condition and tightly connected.


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Response Number 8
Name: DAVEINCAPS
Date: August 30, 2008 at 00:17:43 Pacific
Reply:

What size and/or model numbers are your hard drives? 98 won't properly run on drives larger than about 127 gig. The 3.5 ghz machine you're using may have a drive larger than that.


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Response Number 9
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 30, 2008 at 01:37:09 Pacific
Reply:

Hey DAVEINCAPS,

Thanks for the replies (Response 6,7,8).

It's 10.35 in the morning here in sunny South Africa, and after midnight for you in the States? Thanks for being available in the late, late hours :-)

Responding to Response 6 & 8:

Yes D:drive is a seperate drive.

C:drive is a Western Digital WD100EB-00BHFO 10GB (master) drive

D:drive is a Maxtor-2B02H1 20GB (slave) drive

Could I not simply unplug the D:drive and set the jumpers on the C:drive to Single, and then reboot? Or should I rather do the setting in CMOS/BIOS as you suggested :

DAVEINCAPS said "you CAN set its drive type to NONE in cmos/bios setup".

Okay, responding to Response 7:
If I am booting from the floppy, before the query screen comes up asking, '1. Start computer with CD-Rom support' etc., a primary BIOS screen comes up showing the Pri. Master and Pri. Slave (correctly reported) and Sec. Master and Sec. Slave correctly reporting the CD-Rom and CD-RW drives.

I have checked the CMOS/BIOS settings and both IDE controllers are enabled and the drives are detected.

However, when the boot floppy is loading, and the screen showing the loading process rolls past, it does not show any reference to CD-Rom drives at all.

Query: Should I physically disable the D:drive by unplugging and resetting the jumpers, or should I virtually disable the D:drive in the CMOS/BIOS settings?

Thanks for all the help and responses. This is truly appreciated!

Michael.

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 10
Name: Dumbob
Date: August 30, 2008 at 03:14:20 Pacific
Reply:

Remove the power & data plugs from #2HDD D:
You should not have to change the Jumper on C: as it's already set to Master (BIOS=Primary Master).

To eliminate some confusion you could Eliminate the HDD D: and one of the Optical Drives. Just unplug Power & data cables. Unplug the one on the Middle plug on the Ribbon Cable.

Your drive letters should now be, C: Primary Master HDD and D: CD/DVD Optical drive. You may see "Not Detected" in place of the unplugged drives.

When you boot from a Floppy Boot Disk, The RAM Drive that is created will Bump your CDROM Drive Letter either UP one Letter (E), or to a drive letter determined by the Boot Disk. Sometimes it's "R" HP sometimes uses "M".

The system uses the RAM DRIVE, there is nothing you can, or need to do with it. It just speeds up the Process by using Main Memory (RAM) rather than the slower HDD.

Personally. I would not change anything in the BIOS. Bios will not detect unplugged Drives. Then you won't have to reenter BIOS later. I would put the CDROM as first in Boot order if you see the option, or at least make sure it is not after Boot from HDD.

Try booting up from C: again. If it fails, reboot with a Boot Floppy and select boot Without CDROM support. At the A: type SYS C:, Hit Enter.
You should see a message "Files Transfered".

Remove the Floppy and Reboot. Note any error messages exactly. Post back.

Now a couple of questions. You say you have an OEM Restore CD. What it the MFG and Model number of your Computer?

I noticed you report your Processor speed as 3.5 Ghz, is this accurate? Or is that 350Mhz

*NOTE For the Future*
When running 2 HDD the Master should be on the Primary IDE Chanel, with the Slave HDD on Secondary IDE Channel, jumpereed either Master or slave. Leaving the Optical Drives split between Primary IDE & Secondary IDE. Slave, on Primary IDE, and Either Master or Slave, on Secondary IDE. I would put the CD/DVD Burner Drive on the Primary IDE, as Slave

There is nothing to learn from someone who already agrees with you.


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Response Number 11
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 30, 2008 at 03:28:46 Pacific
Reply:

Responding to Response 10:

Thanks Dumbob for the in-depth response. I am going to work through your suggestions and I will post back the outcome/s.

Hold thumbs...
Michael

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 12
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 30, 2008 at 03:45:09 Pacific
Reply:

Reply to Dumbob...

I checked the BIOS and the CPU CLOCK/SPEED is 200MHz/3.20GHz

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 13
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 30, 2008 at 04:38:29 Pacific
Reply:

Reply to Dumbob Response 10:

Thank you all! :-)

I followed the instructions, removed the power and data cables, and booted from C:drive. Bliss. It started up fine, went all the way through to Windows and my data is there and intact. Thank you.

In answer to the questions:

Dumbob asked: "Now a couple of questions. You say you have an OEM Restore CD. What it the MFG and Model number of your Computer?"

I have an OEM Win98SE CD. On reflection, this might not have been supplied with this computer, but a prior one I had, a refurbished P111 which was struck by lightning. It was rebuilt by a computer engineering company here in South Africa with a new case and an EPOX 4PGM21 Motherboard with a 3,20 GHz CPU and a 10GB HDD. No make and model for this, I'm afraid.

They transferred the 20 GB HDD from the old computer, (maybe with some legacy lightning problems, methinks...) and used the Win98SE from there as well.

Hope this answers your question.

My question follows:

How do I go about accessing the information on the (now unattached) D:drive? There is stuff on there that I need.

Thanks for your patience everyone, and your invaluable help.

You've all blessed me. PtL.
Michael.

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 14
Name: DAVEINCAPS
Date: August 30, 2008 at 19:09:31 Pacific
Reply:

Did you change the jumpers on the C: drive prior to getting it to work by itself? If the drives were jumpered as 'cable select' then it wouldn't matter. But if they were jumpered as master and slave you would have needed to remove the WD master jumper when you removed the maxtor from the cable. (A WD drive by itself on the cable has a 'no jumper' master setting.)

If you didn't remove the jumper then the PC would hang on the drive detection screen--which is what you said happened the first time you disconnected the maxtor.

But it works now so maybe that's a moot point.

To access the D: drive you can try connecting it on the secondary and see if you can access it. But likely you'll get the same problem. You may need to go to maxtor's site and download some diagnostic software.

Also, I don't know that I would split the hard drives between the primary and secondary controllers on a permanent basis. The primary on many motherboards has a faster transfer rate than the secondary. The primary on yours is probably ATA 100 or 133. The secondary may be just ATA 33. To find out for sure you need to check the motherboard specs.


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Response Number 15
Name: Michael Africa
Date: August 31, 2008 at 12:04:14 Pacific
Reply:

Reply to Response 14: to DAVEINCAPS

No I didn't change the jumpers on the C:drive prior to getting it to work by itself. But it worked, nonetheless.

What I did do was to try the Maxtor (the dodgy D:drive) on its own. I unplugged the WD and plugged in the Maxtor. I jumpered it to single drive status. The system still would not see it, even after I had tried booting from a boot-disk I made once the C:drive was running, and I could access Windows.

Current sitaution: I have unplugged the Maxtor and the WD is working well on its own. I will continue to try to get the Maxtor working. I will look on the Maxtor website for some diagnostic software. Thanks for that tip.

Any other advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

Michael.

Shoot for the Heart


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Response Number 16
Name: ChrisG (by ChristopherTGarrett)
Date: October 1, 2008 at 18:05:03 Pacific
Reply:

"Win 98 can restore the registry from the command line (as long as system restore is not disabled)"

Windows 98 don't even have system restore.

Jesus Loves You!

Keyboard not detected. Hit F1 to Continue. BREAKFAST.SYS HALTED Cerial port not Responding!!


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