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starting up question

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Name: tcw82
Date: September 21, 2008 at 22:59:55 Pacific
OS: Windows 95
CPU/Ram: 133 Mhz
Product: IBM Aptiva
Comment:

My parents have an old IBM Aptiva with Windows 95 on it. They tried to start it up again to get some old files off before getting rid of it, but when it starts up, all it shows is the IBM screen and then a picture of a floppy disk going into a drive. I can also go into the setup menu. Is there a need for a boot disk, and if there isn't one, how can I make one?

Thanks



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Response Number 1
Name: Brim
Date: September 22, 2008 at 01:15:12 Pacific
Reply:

I used to see this after using Killdisk to wipe the hard disks on old IBM PSValuepoints before they were junked. Guess hard disk is dead or not connected correctly. It cannot boot from hard disk.


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Response Number 2
Name: jam
Date: September 22, 2008 at 05:21:17 Pacific
Reply:

Get your bootdisk from here:

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Download the file, double click on it & follow the instructions. Once the boot floppy is created, boot off it, then use your DOS skills.

"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction


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Response Number 3
Name: T-R-A
Date: September 22, 2008 at 09:31:05 Pacific
Reply:

Likely been sitting around (and the CMOS battery has died). You'll need to enter the BIOS and re-enter the HDD geometry (which may or may not need a machine-specific setup disk) after you've replaced the battery in order to recover the data...


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Response Number 4
Name: OtheHill
Date: September 22, 2008 at 14:55:37 Pacific
Reply:

T-R-A's response is right on, except you don't need to replace the battery. If the computer is an AT type case and power supply you will need to keep in turned on after resetting the BIOS values. If an ATX then just keeping in plugged in with the power supply switch on will keep the BIOS settings.

If you are dumping the unit why bother with a battery.

You could also pull the hard drive and slave in a different system.


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Response Number 5
Name: tcw82
Date: September 22, 2008 at 23:02:21 Pacific
Reply:

OK, how do I set the BIOS and re-enter the HDD Geometry?  The computer had been sitting around for a while, probably at least a year. I know from the setup menu that the date is correct except for the year which says 1980, and the time was an hour off.  How do I tell if the case is AT or ATX? Anything else I need to know once the boot disk starts? 


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Response Number 6
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 23, 2008 at 00:08:06 Pacific
Reply:

Now we need more information from you than "old IBM aptiva".

Look all over that thing and try to find a label with model numbers on it. Should be a 21XX number like 2163

The hard drive will also have a label with information we might need.

Cylinders - Heads - Sectors - Lzone - Precomp

The last two are maybes

This will fix...it's just forgot it's a computer.

If it's ATX, you'll see a 20 pin power connector on the motherboard...2 rows of 10 wires each.

If AT, you'll see a 12 pin power connector with 12 wires all in a single row.

The setup menu is the BIOS we talk about.

Hard Drive geometry is the number of cylinders, heads, and sectors on the hard drive label.

This page might help you id your machine.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/s...

Skip


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Response Number 7
Name: OtheHill
Date: September 23, 2008 at 04:17:22 Pacific
Reply:

What are you going to do with the computer after you get the files off? If you are going to trash it why bother with all that stuff.

It may be simpler to just remove the hard drive and install or just temporarily connect to a different system to retrieve the files.

You MIGHT still need to information off the drive. Once it is out, the label is easy to read.

Tell us your referred method.


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Response Number 8
Name: tcw82
Date: September 23, 2008 at 22:34:52 Pacific
Reply:

Well, it's my parent's computer.  I think my Dad just wants to get the old files off like MS Office and Quickbooks data off for archival purposes and then donate it or recycle it.  He just asked me to take a look at it.It's a 2168-M71; Service level H.  I will try to take the cover off tomorrow, it's late as it is.Which version of Windows 95 do I use from the bootdisk.com site?  I downloaded one file onto a disk and tried to use the bootdisk, but it didn't work, but I don't know if it's the file or something in the setup menu or what.How would I go about taking the hard drive out and reading it from another system, or connecting it to another system?  I've seen computers setup connected to each other before, but I don't remember how it was done.  Connecting it to another system may be easier, my parents computer is XP, my computer is 98SE, but it's finicky.


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Response Number 9
Name: T-R-A
Date: September 24, 2008 at 00:43:13 Pacific
Reply:

Likely if it's the 133MHz model, it's AT. Either way, if you just get into the BIOS and the correct HDD geometry input, it should boot into Win95 when you reboot. Just don't power down until you recover the data. Entering the BIOS may need a machine-specific bootdisk (thus the image of a floppy disk going into a drive). If you're folks don't have it, then you may be able to track one down on IBM's (Lenovo's) site. Nothing personal, but it sounds like you may be a little unfamiliar about swapping drives out, so recovering the data from the drive while it's in your parents' machine may be the safest way for you, especially if there's something like a CD writer or Zip-Drive already in their machine. If so, then it should work (assuming it was working when they stopped using it) as soon as you get Win95 booting.


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Response Number 10
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 24, 2008 at 13:09:13 Pacific
Reply:

Try this...

After you get the C-H-S information off the hdd label, get into setup (F1?).

Enable the appropriate disk translation mode
(on most newer Aptivas this will be LBA, on some of the older (2168) Aptivas CHS addressing will be used).

Select AUTO CONFIG if it's an option to have the drive detected automatically.

If AUTO CONFIG is not an option select USER DEFINED and enter the appropriate number of cylinders, heads and sectors.

Skip


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Response Number 11
Name: OtheHill
Date: September 24, 2008 at 13:42:02 Pacific
Reply:

Skip, the OP listed the model in #8.


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Response Number 12
Name: tcw82
Date: September 24, 2008 at 22:09:33 Pacific
Reply:

It is a 133 Mhz, and to get into the setup menu is F1. Where do I enter the HDD info that was mentioned earlier. Also, in the setup menu, F5 is "Load Factory Settings". Would it do anything to help, and would it delete the hard drive?
In response to T-R-A posting, I don't have too much knowledge of advanced computer repair. I've put in a zip drive on mine, and done other stuff, but nothing like this. However, there is no zip drive, but a CD-R drive. Is there a link on how to connect the computers together here on this site that may make it easier to get the files off?

Thanks.



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Response Number 13
Name: T-R-A
Date: September 25, 2008 at 00:10:00 Pacific
Reply:

I've seen "Load factory defaults" on some systems (though I've never worked that deeply on "modern" IBM's---post PS/2 era) which by all rational thought, should have restored the configuration to as it was when it left the factory---yet they turn out to be a BIOS default (which curtails all system settings to use the lowest possible configuration, i.e.---wait states, no hdd, etc.), so if it were me, I'd print out (or write down) all screens that were accessible via setup before trying that, just as disaster prevention---even though the dying battery may have settled that issue for you. Irregardless, you're likely going to have to open up the case to retrieve the HDD settings, should the machine not have an Auto-detect function. The drive should have a label similar to the photo here (and BTW, don't mess with jumpers---if the drive was working before, it should work now):

http://www.tangible-technology.com/...

You'll need the Cylinders, Heads and Sectors (per track) data to input into the BIOS. Should there be no drive in the table that matches (which there likely won't be), you'll need to use a custom type (often the last drive type available such as type 42 or 43) You may also have a section for Landing Zone and Write-Precomp (which "modern" drives don't use---just leave them as is). At that point, the system should (re-)boot to Win9x after you save the settings. Should that be the case, (and if by CD-R, you mean a CD-Recorder), then copy the files to media and then you should be done. While transferring the data via LPT or COM ports is possible, it would involve cabling (null-modem) that you likely don't have quick access to and DCC which sounds easier than it really is...

http://www.tecno.demon.co.uk/dcc/dc...

You also may want to write the HDD info on the back of the case (should the issue ever come up again...)


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