Hi, thanks for checking back! Maybe I'm getting my terminology mixed up. I thought "clean install" only meant installing or reinstalling a complete version of an OS, rather than just upgrading it. But does it instead mean formatting first? Drat, I had always thought reinstalling the OS alone offered a pretty good chance of improvement. Especially with this particular machine it seemed logical, since so many unwanted programs and other unidentified things have been deleted/removed improperly. But I also don't want to put it through *anything* unnecessary unless the chances for improvement are better than it sounds like they are! I take it I should do nothing -- not even the complete Win 95 reinstall -- unless I get up the nerve to format first. I may just have to dig up personalized assistance, since I need this PC for my consulting work and am uncomfortable with trusting myself to figure out incidentals (like those mentioned), and each driver and component I'd need on hand to format successfully. Thanks for the guidance!

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Go ahead and install "over the top" first. This way you won't loose any data files etc. It may clear up a few things. I just stated what I did based upon your terminology. By all means go "over the top" first. Re; Proof of Ownership. This is required if you use an UPGRADE for the O/S. If you have the ~full~ install media this isn't required.

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Oh good, I was hoping to hear that "over the top" may help/be better than nothing. I really hope I did save the Win 95 OS floppies, I'll tackle my storage locker to find out soon. Thanks again for everything! :^ )

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Follow up: Booo, turns out it was only the Win 95 upgrade floppies I had. So, rather than spend a cent on this PC which I expect to die any minute, I'll just try to control myself from installing a full version of Win 98, which I do have. Is leaving a beat up old version of Win 95 on this computer still a safer bet than putting in Win 98? I'm not all that worried about speed, except on the Internet. Wouldn't want that to get much worse. Hope someone's still out there! :^ )

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You have 32 MB of RAM which will ~run~ 98, albeit slow. Your internet speed is also governed by your connection method, ie; modem, speed of same, etc. If you choose to do a fresh install of 98, just make sure you have anything you might want saved onto some media somewhere (examp. floppies or another drive or drive partition) before you format the C: hard drive. You also could try to install 98 from within 95. If you have further questions, yes, someone is still out here watching. ;>)

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Hi! Glad you're still there! Sorry if I seem to ask the same things over at times, but I'm one of those people for whom words I hear always have at least two meanings! "If you choose to do a fresh install of 98, just make sure you have ... before you format the C: hard drive." -- I always thought a "clean" or "fresh" install of an OS just meant putting in the full version rather than just upgrading; that formatting first is not what "clean/fresh" means. Am I mistaken? I do have my documents and software on tap that I'd need to put back on after a full Win 98 install, but I wanted to clarify that due to issues brought up on this thread as well as my inexperience and my lack of emergency personalized assistance, I did decide to pass on formatting. So what I meant in my preceding post was, given that I will not be formatting, am I better off leaving my corrupt-by-now old version of Win 95 alone; OR might I get improvement (i.e. less crashes and weird behaviors) by installing a full version of Win 98. Either way, first priority is helping the PC live as long a life as possible. I can live with the crashes, etc. if they're just a hassle rather than likely causing further corruption to my system. (Although I must say, all the things Win 95 is no longer compatible with -- including many online scanners and the ability to stay really current on security -- gets irritating!) "You also could try to install 98 from within 95." -- Hmmm, "from within," I don't think I've heard of that! Unless you mean a Win 98 upgrade only, which I've been warned against as something that will likely cause any freaky little problems to get worse... Does it mean something else? Thanks!

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(Sorry if this posts twice -- the first time it went all the way through and confirmed a successful post, but I kept checking back and it was not there...) ============ Hi! Glad you're still there! Sorry if I seem to ask the same things over at times, but I'm one of those people for whom words I hear always have at least two meanings! "If you choose to do a fresh install of 98, just make sure you have ... before you format the C: hard drive." -- I always thought a "clean" or "fresh" install of an OS just meant putting in the full version rather than just upgrading; that formatting first is not what "clean/fresh" means. Am I mistaken? I do have my documents and software on tap that I'd need to put back on after a full Win 98 install, but I wanted to clarify that due to issues brought up on this thread as well as my inexperience and my lack of available personalized emergency assistance, I did decide to pass on formatting. So what I meant in my preceding post was, given that I will not be formatting, am I better off leaving my corrupt-by-now old version of Win 95 alone; OR might I get improvement (i.e. less crashes and weird behaviors) by installing a full version of Win 98. Either way, first priority is helping the PC live as long a life as possible. I can live with the crashes, etc. if they're just a hassle rather than likely causing further corruption to my system. (Although I must say, all the things Win 95 is no longer compatible with -- including many online scanners and the ability to stay really current on security -- gets irritating!) "You also could try to install 98 from within 95." -- Hmmm, "from within," I don't think I've heard of that! Unless you mean a Win 98 upgrade only, which I've been warned against as something that will likely cause any freaky little problems to get worse... Does it mean something else? Thanks!

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I, (among others here) consider a "clean/fresh" install to be an install of a full version of the O/S (95, 98, etc) done on a clean drive. No data on the drive whatsoever. (Formatted or all data deleted, either way.) An "Upgrade" would be installing 98 over 95. There are pros and cons for this. Some do it with no problems, and others have problems. I personally have never done this. I prefer to save any data desired, and do a clean install of the new O/S along with any other programs. ie; MS Office, etc. "You also could try to install 98 from within 95." I meant the above stated scenario. You boot the machine into 95, and while running 95 put in the CD, open Explorer and navigate to the cdrom drive and click on the SETUP.exe in the root directory of the CD if it doesn't autorun. Depending on the CD you have, it ~may~ tell you you can't do it this way. There are work-arounds for this, but that's a different thing at this point.

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Hi there, Although I was checking, I didn't even know you had replied until now! A few days ago I realized that setting my Internet options to never look for newer versions of a page would keep me from seeing new replies on message boards (duh!). But, I set it back to check every time I visited a page days ago, so I don't know why it's still doing (not doing) this! Finally, I refreshed this page and saw your now-dated response. Anyway, yep, again, I was defining a term differently. I'm not usually a fan of manuals, but the Win 98 manual gives one set of instructions for upgrading, and another for what it calls a "New install." And the instructions for the latter do not include or refer to formatting at all, just making sure you have your "programs and hardware" on hand to reinstall; slipping in a Win 98 startup floppy; then next the CD, etc. Maybe they assume you will have already formatted. It can be hazardous when not only are you a novice, but you automatically hear multiple meanings in every sentence like I do! Well, last question (I think) -- which probably sounds like yet again one of my same questions over again: if I just leave my beat up old version of Win 95 alone, and deal with the crashes and little performance blips, will that be making things worse or is it quite possibly the safest way to go (given that I have definitely decided against formatting, lest I can find someone else to do it for me. Not comfortable with all the various risks brought up here -- whether CD drive is proprietary or whatever, etc. etc. etc.). Thanks Dan!

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Hi Spoc, Normally I would suggest doing an "image" of the existing partition, then doing a clean install of 98, OR, on the opposite side of the spectrum, doing an install "over the top". This way, if things don't work out (either way), you could always wipe the partition (format) and re-instate what you had before. However, given your statements about being a novice this can be quite harrowing. As well, I don't know how many hard disks and/or partitions you have and of what size to even make this possible. I'm soliciting some opinions on your situation so hang tight and watch for more replies.

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I received and invitation from Dan so here I am with my offerings. "has not been maintained well, has had many programs and other things removed improperly, etc. It's having a lot of freaky little problems that lead to freezing and crashing of programs, and frequent reboots." How about trying the maintenance first? Then we can work on the improperly removed programs. And then we can work on the freezing and crashing of programs. It is the frequent reboots that concerns me as that may be hardware related instead of the software problems and if so then reinstalling or overinstalling or clean installing is not going to help. First go to Mesich's website to get a copy of the WinME defrag tool. Follow the instructions for installing it from his site. Power up the PC and immediately after the POST screen (where it shows the amount of memory) it will switch to the screen that shows "Verifying DMI pool data" and for the split second that screen is showing you need to hit the F8 key in order to get to the Windows Startup menu. If you miss it you will have to let it startup to the desktop and then go to Start, Shutdown, Restart and try again. Once at the Startup menu select Command Prompt. Once it finishes loading you need to type some DOS commands at C:\> hitting the Enter key after each line: cd windows smartdrv deltree /y temp deltree /y tempor~1 deltree /y history deltree /y cookies deltree /y downlo~1 exit It will return to the POST screen and then get to the Startup menu again. Once at the Startup menu select Safe Mode. Once at the desktop in Safe Mode go to Start, Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Scandisk and when that is done run Disk Defragmenter. Go to Start, Shutdown, Restart. Get a copy of msconfig from Surecool.net's website. It is at the very bottom of the page on the left. Unzip it and follow the instructions in the Read1st.txt file. When done with all of he above post back for more along with any noticable or un-noticable improvements. Do also advise about your partitions you may have. eg. how many and what size they are. Just doubleclick on My Computer to get this information. Anyone in reading plase advise/correct the DOS commands where appropriate. Bryan

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Hi, thanks people! Well, I double clicked My Computer to look for the partition info, but only saw my drives, control panel, etc. listed. Then I right clicked and looked under Properties, but don't know what terminology I'm looking for. Nothing there referred to partitions. These may be completely irrelevant, but it said my both my File System and Virtual Memory were 32 bit, and that Disk Compression is "not installed." Is there something else I should look for? A few notes: -- One of the places I looked when I was trying to find partition info was in the System folder of AOL. I noticed a funny thing, tell me if you think this will make a performance difference: I never did understand exactly what a "cache" was. Hoped whatever it was, I was addressing it when I emptied cookies and temps. But, lo and behold, there I see cache listed. Said, Maximum Cache Size: 40960 KB. Current Cache Size: 18779569 KB. That doesn't sound good, so I emptied it. (I also noticed while in there that my Resources are "zero" right now, says progs may not run right. In reality it probably says that often. FYI, I have AOL, Word and Acrobat open, and haven't rebooted since last night. But even when I only have AOL open, it will crash. In case it's relevant to anything -- I never turn my computer off, unless it makes me. But crashes in various progs sometimes happen shortly after reboot, too.) -- Re defragging: this PC has always had a copy of Norton System Works on it, that was set so that it kept the ability to defrag or run scandisk locked up. Has its own way of monitoring those things I guess. I did turn that off (and have left it off) a few months ago so I could do those things just in case, and it showed that indeed there wasn't much to defrag. So should I still do the step you mentioned, about downloading the other defrag utility and running it that certain way? -- When I say this PC has been maintained poorly, part of what I mean is that beyond having Norton System Works in place, no one ever checked or did a single thing for it, even empty temps. I started doing that when I got it a couple years ago, but that's it. Recently I opened every utility available in Norton System Works and ran them, letting them change and fix whatever they said was "Recommended." It checks a lot of stuff related the hard disk. I don't know if it has a clue or not. -- FYI, after a crash/reboot, when my system comes back up, scandisk often reports file misallocation and things being too big, and I let it do what it wants to fix them. Does this pattern show you anything? Often what it will accuse is AOL. Maybe it was the cache thing? (But I know many people think AOL is practically a virus in itself). I briefly had Sygate's free firewall on, and then it would always accuse both AOL and Sygate. I took the firewall off. I don't know if I would have as many crashes and multi-program problems if I wasn't or hadn't just been online, because I almost always am or just was, via dialup. -- As far as msconfig, just thought I'd mention that I noticed in Spybot there is a utility that seems to show the same things about items that run at startup as msconfig does. By chance is what I need to do something that I can accomplish from there? Or should I still download the prog you mentioned? -- I may have done a lot of the corruption to this machine myself. There were so many ancient, unidentified or trial programs on it; and stuff that looked related to when it used to connect to a local network; that I couldn't resist trying to free up that space. There usually wasn't a listing for the stuff in Add/Remove Programs, so I'd just delete, delete, delete, often guessing that some 'floating' remnant/component was related to something else I didn't need by clicking its Properties. And Explorer in Win 95 seems to automatically store and name things differently -- it makes entries itself in prominent places with weird names that are strings of numbers and letters. I never saw those in my old Win 98 machine, I think whatever they are, they are now all stored together in system folders. Anyway, I deleted some of those things and moved many others, trying to at least get them all in the same place. (Yeah, they just bugged me. Good reason, huh??) And, it looked like at one point someone had made a copy of almost the entire hard drive in there, so I deleted that too. I'm not sure if the performance got any worse after all that, because before then I was rarely using it. Now it's all I have. Sorry this is so long, let me know if any of it sheds any light or changes any of the steps you recommend right now. Oh, and also -- you posted for any applicable corrections to the DOS commands you listed. Should I go ahead or wait to make sure they were correct? Thanks a million!

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You mentioned your 95 was an upgrade version. It's possible you could 'upgrade' 95 to 95. Just start up the computer and then attempt the upgrade from within windows. I've never tried it but it should work OK. That may take care of the problem you're having. As far as putting 98 on it, it should run OK with 32 RAM and a 233 cpu, as long as you don't load a bunch of crap on it. Of course it won't run as fast as 95. Installing another 32 of RAM would be ideal. If you do upgrade to 98 using a full version cd the process is the same as an 'over the top' reinstallation for 98. You need to rename win.com in the windows folder to something else--like win.old. Then reboot the computer with a 98 bootdisk, choosing cdrom support. Pay attention to the last few lines that load before the final a:\> prompt. That will show you the drive letter of the cdrom. Then with the 98 cd in the cdrom type: e:\setup and enter, where e: is the cdrom drive letter. This should start the installation process. If it asks if you want to replace your exising OS or exit setup, choose to replace. It will ask what directory to install windows in and will default to windows.000. Choose 'other directory' and change windows.000 back to windows so that everything installs in your existing windows folder. The rest of the installation should proceed normally. You 95 drivers for video, sound, modem, etc. will probably work OK for 98. If they're older cards for which 98 has the drivers, it will automatically install them. But after the installation check in device manager to make sure everything is OK.

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I'd still recommend installing msconfig - it has more than a few features and is a compact, easy to run application. Also might be worth checking the actual Windows version in 'control panel' 'system' - if the installation was performed using the 13 disk upgrade set, that version is the plain 'vanilla' Win95 (without the 'A') - it can be patched up to the 'A' version. As well, installing Dial Up Networking v1.3 or v1.4 would likely improve your internet connection somewhat. Tools such as RegCleaner or RegSeeker can be invaluable to reduce registry clutter - and let's not forget TweakUI Yeah - 98 will run, but it really will be boggy. I have a similar system that I'm considering downgrading to 95 to improve the performance. Your mileage may vary, but I suspect you'd find 98 a bit frustrating unless you can add more RAM. On that machine, even using 'cacheman optimization' there's only about 6Mb free at startup. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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As always, thanks so much! DAVEINCAPS -- what I'm still trying to find out is, besides the slow down if I do install Win 98, might that make other performance issues (like crashes) better, or not? I have been told that just upgrading would definitely be bad if one was seeking an end to various little nuisances. I probably will not end up installing 98, but would like to know once and for all. Jboy, I'll check if my OS is 95 version A and look into what you said. As far as downloading msconfig, will that in itself improve something? If I need to report something about my start items, maybe I can do that from Spybot's utility? I just ask because while I'm sure the program you refer to is useful, I'd need to know what to do with it right? I was somewhat familiar with msconfig when I had another PC with Win 98, and managed to get myself up to speed on what should be running at startup, but that's it. Actually, I posted a thread awhile ago called "Ton o' runonce startup items" (or "entries," don't recall), regarding this machine. With this PC I couldn't figure out what was needed at startup as easily. Anyway the thread didn't reveal anything, and of course I'm looking to do things that will get me somewhere right now. Same about the regcleaner thing, I'm in a fog about where it will get me unless I already know more than I do. Resources low on this machine but will download what will help. By chance would installing full Win 98 (*without* formatting first!!!) address any existing registry issues and issues msconfig could help with? Did any of the points in my preceding post reveal anything or change anything about Bryco's advice? Were his DOS commands correct, as he posted to verify, and should I do that step he mentioned? I'll check back, have a great weekend all! :^ )

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By and large the Spybot 'System Startup' feature in the Tools section is similar to msconfig - but it seems to deal mainly with registry entries (and the 'startup' folder), whereas msconfig allows access to win & system.ini, the DOS startups (if present) and a few other items - and allows editing. It's a tiny file and, compared to Spybot, is considerably quicker to load. Using Spybot for that is fine, but seems akin to cracking nuts with a sledgehammer. Not a big deal, but I'd say just put msconfig on your machine and run as needed. It's one of the keys to freeing up system resources, and hard to live without in 95. "By chance would installing full Win 98 (*without* formatting first!!!) address any existing registry issues and issues msconfig could help with?" Installing Win98 onto an existing windows setup will pretty much preserve the registry, for better or for worse - so either start afresh or else resolve those issues, would be my advice. Msconfig is a tool which allows you control over your startups - nothing more really - you would use it to make adjustments or to check your settings, period. Likewise, you could use Regcleaner or similar tool to remove 'dead' entries from the registry. I prefer to use something like Fix-It utilities (v4 on 95) to clear out the deadwood and erroneous entries, but it's a commercial suite. A smaller, cleaner registry can improve performance. Patching plain old 95 to 'A' (if that's the case) could possibly improve performance and stability, as well as upgrading DUN - maybe a few other patches, depending on your requirements. If you are running 'A' or earlier, your hard drive would be limited to partitions of 2Gb or less - large disk support wasn't available until the 'B' version. As far as Bryan's DOS commands - well, I don't use anything like that personally, but then I don't use IE that often. Periodically I'll clean out my temp directory 'manually', but that's about it. As I read those commands, it looks like they are set to delete the actual folders, not just their contents - eg: deltree /y temp instructs deltree to remove (without confirmation) anything in the Windows folder called 'temp' - - might be better to be more specific: deltree /y temp\*.* .. would target just the contents and subfolders only (if any). The 'exit' tag is not required, and while loading DOS smartdrv to speed things up is preferred by some, it remains resident in memory There exist a few batchfiles to automate these things - delindex.bat by Renaissance Man for one, and Dan Penny's purge.bat I believe (although I've used neither) While it can be beneficial to clear out the browser cache and cookies folder etc, I don't believe any improvement will be overwhelming - that's just maintenance Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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I agree with jboy about installing msconfig on it if you stay with 95. It's one of those utilities when once you have it, you can't imagine not having it. I believe you can also install the scanreg files from 98 on a 95 machine. I wouldn't necessarily say that 98 is any better than 95 at reducing crashes as that's often due to hardware or added software. The benefit of using 98 would be better functioning with newer hardware and software

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Sure - msconfig is darned handy, but if Spoc goes with 98, it won't be an issue. I'm somewhat partial to 95 (big surprise *g*) but that would be my preference on a machine with those specs. If more RAM can be added, sure, 98 would run fairly well. Hard drive capacity may also be a consideration, but you can always toss in a slave if needed. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Thank You All for the interest/insites/input from my email re; 95 expertise. (I jumped directly from WfW 3.11 to 98SE.) Spoc, for partition information; Open a DOS window and type in; fdisk/status This will give you a listing of your hard disks and any partitions/sizes on them. Post that info here, it may come in handy further down the road to system recovery. I've uploaded MSConfig98SE.zip to my webspace. (In the header of this post.) The files have been zipped with the full path info so you'll know where they should reside. There you'll also find MEDefrag.zip and Purge.zip. The defrag zip has install.bat etc, and purge has full instructions with it.

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Let's say I have been working in the yard all day and wearing a T-shirt. This T-shirt is like your current operating system. I am going on a date tonight and I have choices about how to prepare for this date hygenically. I can put on another T-shirt "over the top" of the one I am wearing. I can "upgrade" by simply putting on a clean shirt over the T-shirt. Or I can do a "clean/fresh" install by removing the T-shirt, taking a shower and putting on a clean T-shirt. Get it? In the first two scenarios you still have the dirty T-shirt but not in the latter. You are using Norton System Works and AOL on Win95. I use none of these things and am trying to get some common ground as far as tools and information. In my previous post I was attempting to get your machine cleaned up a bit as quickly and easily as possible. Deltreeing the folders will get rid of any of those "hidden" files many on this forum board have talked about that amount in the thousands without having to explain later. WinME defrag could perform that defrag task 5 times faster then Win95's tool so if Win95 took 5 hours (overnight) to defrag then WinME's would finish before going to bed. WinME's tool is not necessary. Win95's defrag tools lets you know if you need to be defragged or not and states the percentage of fragmentation. I once had that tool or similar tool that I used on my Win98 machine. It never showed more than 1% fragmentation and never said I needed to defrag. I defrag weekly whether I need it or not (just like my weekly shower:) Re: msconfig - A tool that everyone here can relate to which has the ability to control startup items. This will be used for our next step. Re: DOS commands - Exit just gets you out of command prompt. That was not a batch file. Looking in My Computer will not tell you or us how many hard drives you have but each partition is labeled with a letter. A drive would be your floppy drive. C drive would be your primary partition. Got any more in there? This is post #25. Have we gotten anywhere yet? You do not want to do a "clean/fresh" install so the best we can do is clean it up and then work on the specific problems. If you trust Norton System Works and AOL to take care of things without defragging then you are done. If you think that Norton has not done a good enough job taking care of things then maybe some of the advise provided in this thread has merit. I have never used a machine that had Norton System Works installed on it but many people whom post on Computing.net do have problems because they do have it installed. So, what would you like to do now? Regards, Bryan

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"....just like my weekly shower...." ;>) Spoc, I've also uploaded Registry Cleaners.zip to my webspace for you. I've included a readme file in the zip. I suggest you install the afore mentioned programs (MSConfig, reg cleaners, etc). Run the purge.bat if you haven't followed Bryans advice yet re; the deltree dos commands. Follow the instructions in the readme for that. (Running the batch file will save you lots of typing.) You shouldn't have any problems. Cleaning out the junk from the drives and the registry may help quite a bit. Defrag after all the cleanups. When you get to the MSConfig we can help you there re; how and what.

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Oops - you're quite right Bryan - I was thinking of a batchfile tag, not a command shell exit. Yeah - if the machine is slow & ridden with problems, look to AOHell & Norton. Are we making progress? Good question. - heh - Bryan - interesting (and unique!) analogy Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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LOL. "interesting (and unique!) analogy" I usually use the automobile analogy but I couldn't make it work this time. Bryan

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Hi folks, First up, scattered notes/answers: in My Computer I have only a, c and d drives (and I don't know how to open a DOS window, but nevermind, I've tied up enough time)!. It looks like my version of 95 is the 'B' one. I suspect Norton System Works doesn't do much for me at this point. I bet it would free up a lot of room if I just removed it, yes? Maybe I will. I don't have Norton AV anymore, just AVG. Anyway, I'm very sorry, I haven't meant to seem like I nonchalantly disregard suggestions or don't appreciate them. Please know that I am very aware that this has been an exceptional thread as far as its longevity and contributions! I guess it's just that, while I am actually a very intelligent person, I make things too complicated for myself. So in addition to being a novice, whenever I read/hear advice, it creates 10 more questions in my mind and I don't know how to proceed without finding out the answers first. I hadn't yet understood most of the suggestions enough that I felt I could act -- everything seemed related to something else I needed to get clear on first... Maybe I have to face my limits as far as being able to absorb technical information in this kind of setting, at least multi-layered information... (Um, anyone live near Chicago? Tech party at my place, pizza and beer, I'm buying! I owe you all dinner by now anyway! :^ ) I don't want to keep hogging everyone, so I think I need to take some time to print out, review and digest this thread. The recent suggestions have been easier for me to understand, and I thank you immensely. Also wanted to note that I am having connection problems today, so if it's not AOL I guess my external modem may be going. So if I ever don't respond to something, that's probably what's happening. Anyway, I really am grateful, you are all swell! This WILL help me! I'll update the story when applicable! =8^ )

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Yes, questions generate answers.. which generate more questions. Sometimes you have to just jump in and 'learn by doing'. You can get to a command prompt in Windows by either using the 'MS-DOS' icon or in the 'run' box enter command .. or, you have the option of starting in DOS without Windows - depends on what you're doing. 95B likely won't need much in the way of patches, although you may want to check out the Dial Up Networking upgrade Ah, yes - I often use automotive analogies myself, despite never having had much to do with engines. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Spoc, I am not degrading what you have or have not done. I am, however, trying to inspire you to move in a more positive direction. The suggestions, so far, are benign. They can't hurt and can only help. You may very well, in the end, wind up reinstalling on top or even, if needed, reformatting. Either way, everyone attending this session is fairly patient and very willing to help. The only problem is that as the thread gets longer and more time passes it takes more energy to continue to re-read and understand or remember what has or has not been done and or what has been suggested. Performing the basic cleanup and adding msconfig to your Win95 machine will put us in place to turn off Norton System Works (NSW) to see if that results in an improvement among anything else that may show it's ugly face in msconfig. I would suspect your rebooting problem is the result of running out of resources but something is causing that. It could be many things. NSW has been accused of using too many resources too. Perhaps a less painful suggestion... StartLog.com is a small program that requires no installation. You just download a copy of it and double click on it. The program will create a log that you can view and/or copy and paste it's contents to this thread. It will show what is running. You can do this while you contemplate performing the cleanup and defragmentation. If we don't help then we fail and that takes the fun out of it. For fun is the only reason we come to this site. (Well, knowledge too. I knew nothing about computers when I started coming here about four years ago. I'm no expert but I know more than the average bear.) Regards, Bryan

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While I'm still here and have the attention of many of the regulars... I have a folder on my PC that contain (I didn't realize) 99 separate programs that are all "StandAlone Programs" which of course, are my favorite. No installation required. All 99 of them were free. Mostly utilities of various design. One of them, I just now tried for the first time because I was in that folder looking for StartLog.com and it is relative to the purpose of StartLog.com. I came accross WinAudit 1.3 (129Kb). Check it out. It is pretty cool. I saved my output in .html format for future reference. If you are indifferent to it then just trash the .exe and the 1Kb .ini it creates, in the same folder, after running the first time. Regards, Bryan

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Thanks for checking back. Hey, good news, I did a couple things: fdisk says I only have one drive/disk, c. And, here is my Startlog.com report! (Don't know if the following indicates anything stealthy at start up, but remember when I said earlier in the thread that I briefly had IE set to "Never check for newer versions" of webpages, so I didn't see new posts? Well, I just realized that every time I reboot my computer now, it sets itself back to "Never" (instead of "Each visit to the page," as I keep setting it back to). What stats from msconfig should I report after I download it? ======== Comments: This is a log of all the programs on your computer that are starting automatically every time you start Windows. Using this log can be a quick way to spot trojans. StartUp Log (version 1.58) - Release Date 11/9/2002 _____________________________________________ StartUp Log Index 1. HKLM Run 2. HKCU Run 3. HKLM RunOnce 4. HKCU RunOnce 5. HKLM RunServices 6. HKLM RunServicesOnce 7. WIN.INI file 8. SYSTEM.INI file 9. AUTOEXEC.BAT file 10. StartUp folder 11. All Users StartUp 12. Misc. StartUp Configurations _____________________________________________ The following is a list of your current Start-Ups _____________________________________________ 1. HKLM Run - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run] "SystemTray"="SysTray.Exe" "Norton CrashGuard Monitor"="\"C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\NORTON SYSTEMWORKS\\NORTON CRASHGUARD\\CGMenu.EXE\"" "AVG_CC"="C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\GRISOFT\\AVG6\\avgcc32.exe /startup" "NPROTECT"="C:\\Program Files\\Norton SystemWorks\\Norton Utilities\\NPROTECT.exe" ============================================= _____________________________________________ 2. HKCU Run - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run] ============================================= _____________________________________________ 3. HKLM RunOnce - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce] ============================================= 4. HKCU RunOnce - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce] ============================================= 5. HKLM RunServices - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices] "Avgserv9.exe"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\GRISOFT\\AVG6\\Avgserv9.exe" "NPROTECT"="C:\\Program Files\\Norton SystemWorks\\Norton Utilities\\NPROTECT.exe" "CSINJECT.EXE"="C:\\Program Files\\Norton SystemWorks\\Norton CleanSweep\\CSINJECT.exe" ============================================= _____________________________________________ 6. HKLM RunServicesOnce - Registry [RegPath] "StartUp" [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServicesOnce] ============================================= 7. WIN.INI File - (c:\windows\win.ini) Your win.ini run/load lines should look like run= and load= exclusively. There should be nothing to the right of the equal signs. These are the run and load lines in your WIN.INI file run= load= ============================================= 8. SYSTEM.INI File - (c:\windows\system.ini) Your system.ini shell line should look like shell=Explorer.exe exclusively. You should only see Explorer.exe following the equal sign. This is the shell line in your SYSTEM.INI file shell=Explorer.exe ============================================= 9. AUTOEXEC.BAT File - (c:\autoexec.bat) (Some trojans have been known to start from this file) These are your program startups and set paths in your autoexec.bat file *(File not found - c:\autoexec.bat)* ============================================= _____________________________________________ 10. StartUp Folder - (c:\windows\start menu\programs\startup) Shortcuts to any program will automatically start when placed here. These are the shortcuts located in your StartUp folder C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\Norton System Doctor.lnk C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\Norton System Doctor.LNK.disabled C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\America Online 7.0 Tray Icon.lnk.disabled ============================================= 11. All Users Folder - (c:\windows\all users\start menu\programs\startup) Shortcuts to any program will automatically start when placed here. These are the shortcuts located in your All Users StartUp folder *(No start-ups found)* ============================================= 12. Miscellaneous StartUp Configurations -============================- Registry StartUp Directories -============================- Should show the Start Menu StartUp and All Users StartUp directories ............................................. [1] HKCU - Shell Folders HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders "Startup"="C:\\WINDOWS\\Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp" ............................................. [2] HKCU - User Shell Folders HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders ............................................. [3] HKLM - Shell Folders HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\Shell Folders ............................................. [4] HKLM - User Shell Folders HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\User Shell Folders ............................................. -=======================- Registry Shell Spawning -=======================- Open Commands for Executable File Types @="\"%1\" %*" (.exe file - RegPath = HKCR\exefile\shell\open\command) @="\"%1\" %*" (.com file - RegPath = HKCR\comfile\shell\open\command) @="\"%1\" /S" (.scr file - RegPath = HKCR\scrfile\shell\open\command) @="\"%1\" %*" (.bat file - RegPath = HKCR\batfile\shell\open\command) @="\"%1\" %*" (.pif file - RegPath = HKCR\piffile\shell\open\command) @="C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\MSHTA.exe \"%1\" %*" (.hta file - RegPath = HKCR\htafile\shell\open\command) -=========================- HKLM RunOnceEx - Registry -=========================- [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnceEx] -=========================- HKU (.Default) Run - Registry -=========================- [HKEY_USERS\.Default\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run] -==============================- HKU (.Default) RunOnce - Registry -==============================- [HKEY_USERS\.Default\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce] -================================- StubPaths - Registry (Partial Listing) -================================- (Please see the StubPath.txt on your desktop for complete listing) HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed Components "OldStubPath"="C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\IE4UINIT.exe" "RealStubPath"="C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\IE4UINIT.exe" "StubPath"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Outlook Express\\setup50.exe\" /APP:WAB /CALLER:IE50 /user /install" "StubPath"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Outlook Express\\setup50.exe\" /APP:OE /CALLER:IE50 /user /install" "StubPath"="" -=================- WININIT.BAK File - (c:\windows\wininit.bak) (name) (type) (size)(modified)(time) wininit bak 113 07-09-04 8:18p -=================- [rename] NUL=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\GLB1A2B.exe NUL=C:\PROGRA~1\STARDO~1\UNWISE.exe NUL=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\GLB1A2B.exe -=====================- Screen Saver Settings (Possible system.ini start-up) -=====================- SCRNSAVE.EXE=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WOODS.SCR ============================================= - Supplemental Environment Information - TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM windir=C:\WINDOWS File - c:\windows\Wininit.bak ============================================= - End -

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Note: I downloaded msconfig from Dan's space -- thank you! -- and at startup it shows six items related to Norton SW, two related to AVG, the system tray and an AOL tray icon.

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Clean as a whistle. Looks good. The first items listed would be the same that you will see in msconfig. I would like you to use msconfig's Startup tab to temporarily disable the Norton items: "Norton CrashGuard Monitor"="\"C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\NORTON SYSTEMWORKS\\NORTON CRASHGUARD\\CGMenu.EXE\"" "NPROTECT"="C:\\Program Files\\Norton SystemWorks\\Norton Utilities\\NPROTECT.exe" You will need to restart the PC after that for the change to take effect. This should free up some resources. Otherwise it would appear that the suggested cleanup and defrag should speed you up. I do not know where to check in Win95 for the availble Resources but after the above please advise the reading for that. In Win98 it shows on the System Properties' (Win+Pause/Break key) Performance tab. (Mine presently 64% Free). Bryan

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You can run the Resource Meter (rsrcmtr.exe) from the system folder, either on demand or set it up in the startup folder. Naturally, it uses resources too (it'll tell you so) - but not that much. I like to have it running Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Also in msconfig's Startup tab uncheck the AOL tray icon. (AOL puts numerous icons around, clicking on any one of them will start AOL.) Check your Start/Programs/StartUp area as well to see what may be called up there. (As Bryan said, the thread is long and I don't recall if that's been covered yet.)

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Re: Six related to NSW. I would suspect 4 of those six do not have ticks next to them. Remove the ticks from all six if found and AOL Tray too leaving System tray and AVG as active. Bryan

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Ok, updates: Yes, all six Norton entries were ticked. So I unticked them all, and the AOL tray icon. (My Start/Programs/Start up folder is also empty now). But guess what, one of them will not stay unticked (the Norton Crash Guard feature, which isn't that helpful because while it can sometimes accomplish unfreezing, it can virtually never stop a crash). I unticked it, "Ok'd" and restarted several times, and all the others remained unticked but not that. Then I even unticked it in Spybot, but still won't go away, and has an icon in my system tray. The absolute only start items I am now ticking myself are two for AVG and the standard system tray. (But then again, I also can't get my IE check-for-newer-webpage versions setting to hold, even after locking it.) Oh well...? I can check system resources from a feature in AOL. There is an optional Windows install to check resources, which I haven't installed, to save resources! I assume they would report the identical resource level. My readings in the past have varied greatly under the same circumstances -- same progs open or not open but different readings. I think it's because I never turn the computer off unless it crashes, so they get lower over time, right? (Any comments on leaving it on all the time?) Anyway, my reading with only AOL open and connected, after having the PC on continuously for about 10 hours (but not online), was surprisingly ok I think -- 66% free. After I turned off all I could of Norton, etc. and restarted/reconnected to AOL, it read 73%! I'd think it has to have helped, but I would have expected much greater of a change. If I think I see a speed/performance improvement now, does this mean it's all in my head? Maybe without Norton my resources will at least stay higher after my PC has been left on for a long period of time? Maybe it's all the remaining Norton item, Crash Guard, that's preventing more of a reading change? As you could see in my log, I'm not even using a firewall right now. When (if?) I put one back on (Sygate free was too much for this PC, but I hear ZA is now 'fixed'), I assume I'll be dragged down considerably... Here are some other unticked items on my msconfig Start tab, just in case you recognize any of them and think they're things that could actually help me. I turned them all off a few months ago, but don't think there was a change in performance. I also turned off *20* unidentified RunOnce entries that appeared in the Spybot utility, but there are not as many reflected in msconfig (and I have none of them ticked), so maybe they define things differently. Again, these are available but I have none enabled: AccessRamp Monitor Browser Web Check Shiva Dial Out (a discontinued line. I guessed it was related to this PC having been on a local area network) Quick Time Task Well, right now *things are running smooth, but it hasn't been long enough since I turned off Norton to see if resources stay higher and/or crashes lessen. (*The modem/connection attempt issue continues, but maybe AOL can have an entire bad weekend? It's taking me five tries to connect, during which the sounds are not normal. So again, if I disappear it's a modem thing. If it doesn't resolve I'll address it in a separate thread....if I can still get online.) Hope you're all having a stupendous Sunday! :^ )

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Often you can disable things from within the program responsible, under the options or configuration menu. Generally, this is preferable (or even mandatory), and may be the case with Norton. Disabled items aren't all that important, and will often remain listed (since the entries exist in the registry) even if the program has been uninstalled. Yes - system resources do tend to dwindle over time due to (usually) applications not releasing them when closed, and a reboot is all that will fix that. Some programs are worse than others - the infamous 'memory leak' - each time that you open & close one of those, your resources will be less and less. You need to experiment and try out different applications to determine which is the 'best fit' for your machine, while still able to provide the desired features. As long as you have some resources available, all will be fine - generally, if they drop to around 15%, it's time to close some applications and/or reboot. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Yes, you were right Jboy, there is an option to turn off Crash Guard within the program itself. I'll see how I do as is, and maybe try turning that off too at some point. Every now and then it can succeed in unfreezing AOL for me, but maybe with the steps I'm now taking that won't be such a problem anyway. Norton SW may be such a hog that it makes itself crash! By the way, I noticed that within Norton I can generate a log of all my previous crashes, if that is helpful for anything. I think the info has been accruing since the nineties! But this PC has only been used all the time lately and in the nineties when it was new. For years it just sat turned on, with a single dial-out program open that was needed infrequently. So the log probably wouldn't be useful in seeing (accurately) when problems across all programs started. So, is it ok to never turn off a computer, one like this at least? I do use it off and on most of the day, but suppose I could start turning it off overnight if better for it. About my list of disabled Start items, I had wondered if any of them sounded like things that may be good to have running, not whether it was ok to have them listed there. Such as, you were mentioning a networking upgrade download -- two of the items refer to something about connecting or browsing, so I thought maybe they could be similar to what you were suggesting and I should turn them back on. However, I haven't been able to identify what purpose they serve by looking within my computer (or online) -- they may have even been removed. And maybe any programs that old couldn't be equivalent to the one you mentioned anyway. I'm curious to see how much overall improvement I get now with just the Norton System Hog change, but I'll be absorbing the other suggestions (DOS cleaning commands, defrag/registry progs, Dan's other downloads) for next-in-line! Thanks, this HAS all been useful! :^ )

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There are a couple of 'schools of thought' with regard to shutting down - modern machines do have power management, so the drives and monitor are not constantly running, but some users report problems with power management. I prefer not to use it, and do shut down my machines - at any rate, hard to avoid rebooting periodically. Sometimes those 'crash guard' programs can be helpful, but none of them can prevent all crashes. I do run the Fix-It version with some success, on a 95 machine. As far as your disabled startups, I only recognize two - Apple's Quicktime, which does not need to be running from the tray, and M$ Webcheck, which does nothing useful (afaik) AccessRamp Monitor (aka Armon32.exe) also seems of limited value Shiva Dial Out does seem to be some sort of Intel product related to LANs Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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I turn off my machines. (Personal opinion is that) all it's doing is baking the power supply and some motherboard components, monitor CRT/circuitry, drive bearings, etc, etc. Plus dust is constantly being pulled into the machine. As jboy mentioned, power management will spin down drives and minimize other things, but I feel that if I'm not using it, shut it off. As well, again as jboy stated, the memory leaks by programs not giving up resources is a factor. Your machine appears to be getting better, so shutting it down shouldn't be so much of a concern now.

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You don't necessarily need to shut it down, just Restart it as you leave it for the session. When you come back to it your resources will be back where you want them to be. On my machine I see preformance degradation when the resources get below 45%. I do have to work it pretty hard to get it below 45%. PhotoShop can do it. Personally, I shut mine down when I am done with it. I'll turn it back on if I need it again in the same day. Your main problem was crashes and they were likely related to lack of available resources. I think we have addressed that. Running at 66% is about right the way I see it. I just powered up and checked my emails and now have two browser windows open and I am at 72%. I powered up at 81%. Defrag, did I mention defrag? Let me suggest you defrag. That will improve performance. Do it weekly. With the WinME defrag it is not a chore (except the first run of it). Cleanup, just go to IE Tools, Internet Options, General tab and under the Temporary Internet Files section click on the "Delete files" button. If there are more than 10,000 files then you will need to repeat the process for the next 10,000 files. If there are more than 10,000 files then it could take a long time to delete them and that is why I suggest deleting them from within DOS (much faster in DOS and in one shot). Ok, one more thing that I don't think we covered (maybe we did); those dust bunnies. Open the case and clean it out. I like canned air to get the dust off of the parts and then vacuum the bottom. Don't make the fans spin with the canned air. I use Tiny Personal Firewall. It is no longer available but I do have the installer. It uses less than 2% of resources. You can grab a copy by right clicking the following link and selecting "Save target as". tpf.zip 1.25Mb I used to use ZA's 2x versions but gave up on it. Maybe the newer versions are better; I don't know. If Sygate was too much then I'd bet that ZA will be too. Like any firewall it takes a couple of weeks to get the settings to work the way you want so you no longer see it's warnings. Of course, read the warnings to make sure you do not give permissions to some spyware or Adware. Windows Media Player always wants to check for updates whenever I use it. I make it prompt me for permission. This is about the only time I ever see the firewall in action. Regards, Bryan

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Ok, off to the races! It's been over 24 hours and performance suggests that I will still need to proceed through the other steps discussed -- which would have been smart anyway! Fortunately, having pondered and digested, the procrastination is lessening re: downloads for registry, defrag and Dan's other suggested ones; DOS cleanup (emptying temps through Control Panel > Internet Options was *the* one thing I had always done, but maybe should do the other way anyway...); manual cleaning (eek, alarmist about static, but it's sure dusty from outside so it's gotta need it inside); maybe Jboy's networking upgrade download.... and thread review for any others I can handle that I missed. Oh, thanks for Tiny, Bryan! I downloaded it and will install it in a minute. Is there still a site to update it from, or are updates unavailable now too? How does that work with firewalls -- are they still pretty useful regardless of updates? I'm obviously on dial-up so I haven't been taking the fw thing seriously, but guess I should. Media Player... the only time I get messages about updating is when I open certain websites that require a higher version. I have always ignored them and just skipped the site, thinking this PC couldn't play video or whatever very well no matter what, so why waste the room. But that's probably bad logic. Gracias pals, I'll see how these next steps go! =8^ )

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I am glad to see you moving forward. Re: Firewalls - On dial up not really necessary but is a very good check or safety net for spyware and adware. (BTW-I never do let Windows Media Player get updated). Firewalls do not have updates other than version updates. That was one of the things I didn't like about Zone Alarm; everytime I'd get used to it then they would come out with another updated version. I'd go for it and then find it was sucking up all of my resources or crashing some other program. I'll guarentee Tiny Personal Firewall will not be coming out with another version and this one works good. The version upgrades/updates are unlike virus definition files. They are just some enhancement to the older version that could simply be it's appearance or an additional feature. Bryan

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Ok, I'm in motion! Wanted to ask a few things about the registry cleaners (RegSeeker, EasyCleaner) and Purge programs I downloaded from Dan's webspace (hi Dan! Sorry if I should have emailed this instead). I know I know I know -- really -- that this is all "at my own risk," but your opinions will be better than mine, because... well, y'all know how "good" I am by now! ;- ) 1] I think I like EasyCleaner better (more undo options, more options period, friendlier, gives explanations). Any sense in running them both, one after the other? 2] Since there are SO many categories of things I'll be messing with now, should I avoid doing them all at once (so I could more easily figure out what caused any problems I start having)? Wait a day or so in between? Anyway, notes on each program: EASYCLEANER TOOLS (many decisions can be reversed/undeleted... but you know my chances of pulling THAT off if the machine wouldn't start! ;): 3] FIND DUPLICATES -- I left the defaults, which are set to make sure items match on *everything (size, time, date, content)* except name. Since most of the ton it found are items named by the system and not me (so I either have no idea what they are, or can tell what prog they're associated with but they have fairly different names), should I just trust it and delete what it says are copies? I'd love to! 4] FIND UNNECESSARY (stuff)-- The default setting is to find 'Normal' temps. I deleted those. There are also options to have it find 'Extra Types' and 'Temp Directories.' There is a TON more in those, and I'd like to delete them too. Am I pretty safe doing that? The lists are a mile long, but a quick scroll showed nothing I recognized or understood. (Several weirdly named things that are 'applications' in there... Maybe that's the way Windows disposes of used updates, downloads, etc.?) 5] START UP INSPECTOR -- wow, different things listed in there than in msconfig, or by different names anyway (I posted those previously). Spybot lists a ton, but most by individual components or something because many I don't recognize (sledgehammer, you say), and they're mostly different names than the others show too. Anyway, EC color codes the start up entries -- green, yellow and red, for "ok," "caution" or "suspicious." The intro refers to spotting possible invaders, but I think its color coding must refer instead to items that I just don't have enabled? The only green items for me are AVG, the M$ O/S, Norton CrashGuard and Norton Utilities. Yellow (unidentified or caution) ones are listed as: Dial-up Networking 1.3 (yup, see note later) Dial-up Server Direct Cable Connection Driver Upgrade Driver Upgrade 2 GrpConv Rna Reboot Virtual Private Networking Wrapper All of these except the last are of 'Type' rundll.exe setup something or other. "Wrapper" is a RunOnce. There was one red item -- M$ InstallShield Setup, which it said "Doesn't exist!" so I deleted it. Is there anything else on the list that you can tell on sight is useless? Or maybe registry cleaning handles those anyway... 6] REGISTRY CLEANER -- um, what can I say... it finds a million things and I have no clue. Should I just DO it? Looking at them will never give me the right answer, except for just a few that I recognize as being from programs I deleted long ago. ============= 7] Now, the REGSEEKER program -- with this one it looks like when you press 'Ok,' it's gonna delete everything it finds and never show you a list. That scares me, even though as stated above, a list doesn't help me anyway! It can create a backup, but still, if I should only clean the registry from one program, I like EC better. If I do use this one too, should I enable the option for it to "Scan drives for old exe entries in registry?" By default, it scans like three or four other registry areas. (EC actually gives no options for how deep it scans. Maybe it uses training wheels! But there are thousands of things found.) 8] WAIT!!! Are all the things EC finds things it is saying it thinks I could delete -- or is it just listing all things so I can choose??? Big difference, and I can't tell! If the latter, no way could I choose anyway. ================= 9] Oh, and the "PURGE" program -- the readme file text all overlapped itself to where I can only make out about 1/2 of it. But I wouldn't get it anyway. Go for it you say? Oops, SORRY -- guess I'd like to hear it. I have run automated DOS temp cleaners before on another machine and it seemed to be fine, wish I could remember the names. There were two, one more 'serious' -- might have been something like Wipe All and Clean All. Free downloads. Just thought that might help, if your program is similar to many others. ================= 10] SCREW UP -- Now, the note on realizing I already have Dial-up Networking 1.3 on this PC: to make a long story short (!), I saw its installer while doing something unrelated and thought it had never actually been installed. So I did it, and haven't rebooted yet as it requires. *Then* I saw in EC that I already do have it!! Uh oh, don't know what will happen when I reboot with two copies! I wish I knew now whether I should 'Remove' the existing copy before I shut down -- anyone still up? ;-). The installer/download itself disappeared with my cleaning so far, so I won't have it to reinstall if I reboot and can't get online. See what I mean about making things complicated??? (Anyone guess that I'm a chick yet? OOPS! I might get in trouble for that! ;) Apologies again, I know all these things have risks and I don't expect guarantees. But some of it isn't of the nature that I really can just do it without asking. Maybe the better question is just, can I gather that when you suggested these programs, you'd witnessed my comprehension level, and still thought they were safe enough for me to let run without understanding it all? If so, should I only stick to the defaults or select some of the go-deeper tool options mentioned above? Goodnight, THANKS for everything!!! :^ )

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Reinstalling DUN1.3 should do no harm - there's even a v1.4 available, but it's likely not that huge of an improvement over 1.3 .. as for the rest, I'll leave that to those more familiar with the use of EasyCleaner etc. (now might be a good time to consider a decaffeinated beverage though) Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Re; the registry cleaners. I run both. RegSeeker does a "deeper" scan. Just run them "stock", as they are. They both make backups "in case", but I've never had to use the backups. For now just run the clean registry aspects of the programs. Lets wait on the unnecessary, startup, and duplicate files aspects. One step at a time. Whatever they find, (reg entries) select all, delete all. In RegSeeker, once you select all, r-click in the selected entries listing and delete will be at the bottom of the popup box. It will take a little longer to run because of the deeper scanning, but it does list all invalid entries found. Purge readme. Don't know why the readme came out as you describe. Maybe line wrap isn't engaged in your text editor. You should be safe deleting your History, cookies, temp, temp internet files. In the readme it states that you may/will have to re-enter some web site user names & passwords when cookies are removed. If you've had windows save your passwords this isn't a problem unless you have forgotten them. Don't forget to defrag when all the cleaning is done.

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I didn't know you are female but I did think that you had pointy ears so figured you to be a logical person. I can speak for RegSeeker. Click on Clean Registry Place a check next to Backup before deletion Select all keys When done scanning click on Select All. The selected items will change color. Right click on any bare spot of the changed color area and select "Delete selected items". Note: To provide the instructions I used the program as described with the exception that I only scanned the first Key (so it would be faster). It found 51 items that were mostly extensions not found. After I delete them then most of them will come back on their own after I reboot. So, even though it seems like it is removing a lot; many will return and don't worry about it. RegSeeker has many other utilities but we are not currently concerned with the others. I do agree that doing these steps a little each day verus all in one day may preserve your sanity. Bryan

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"I do agree that doing these steps a little each day verus all in one day may preserve your sanity." I take it back. Run RegSeeker as prescribed (or EasyCleaner) Get into DOS (Command Prompt) from the Windows Startup menu as described earlier. Delete the Temp files as prescribed. Before exiting DOS run another command: scanreg /fix (while you are there) Return to Windows. While it is restarting take note of any and all error messages if any. Then run Maintenance Wizard to perform Scandisk and Defrag (using WinME's tool) Then Restart the PC. My fingers are crossed for you. Bryan

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On a side note: When I open this page it takes about 10 seconds before I am able to scroll down to the bottom. I block third party cookies and suspect it is related to the view.atdmt.com cookie being blocked. Anyone else seeing this delay? Bryan

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Yes. Been seeing this for a while now. I removed the third party cookie block and the delay seems to have gone away.

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Thanks Dan. When I click on the Privacy Report down in the Status bar of IE6 and select the mentioned cookie I don't really like that cookie. It does a little too much. Bryan

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Good evening all! I was just now able to get online today. Finally couldn't connect at all, as anticipated, and surprise surprise, it turned out to be an AOHELL thing (I like that! ;) Virtually all of their access numbers in my city are being worked on, have been since Sat. and will be for up to 4 more days. Not only did they not notify customers, but the techs DID NOT KNOW THIS during my first three calls to AOL. So yes, spoke (and held) at length for my phone company and modem manufacturer as well, etc. etc. Now connected through another city, but have flat-rate long distance so should be ok. Oops, how's that for a digression! Anyway, just read up on your responses and am off to carry those things out. I am really looking forward to this now! Gonna do the registry, DOS cleaning (better than EC's tool I gather?), and download that faster defragger (I will "End Task" on everything except systray and Explorer, tho this tool may be fast enough anyway). Will report back! Btw, Bryan, I am running Tiny (but probably won't except for major searching/surfing). It sure wins on highest number of questions during connection -- must have been literally -- LITERALLY -- 40 of them or more. Found I had to say 'yes' to all to get online (well, "ended up saying yes" is more accurate --couldn't experiment with ALL combos at that rate), but have denied all requests *while* online. And, haven't been bumped off or anything. Such is how we figure it out, of course. Does denying certain things that are actually ok while online result in any slowdown? I'd never be able to detect any subtle diffs myself, this ain't ever gonna be a fast machine online regardless, but I like to get as much speed as I can. Feel free to ignore that question, the other stuff I'm on my way to do is what I want to reserve everyone's patience for! Jboy, so right on the caffeine! Well, I don't ingest a lot of it but I do sometimes act like I do! I often stay up through the wee hours. And also tend to get very wound up about whatever I'm doing (in good ways too)! Not sure which way you meant it, but either way is right on! ;^ )

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Aw, I was just kinda funnin' Live long and prosper. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Ok, back from my big adventure: Cleaned registry first from EC. It doesn't show many useless keys were found, but there were hundreds. Then, cleaned from RS using all options. *After* EC had already deleted what it found, RS found 325 keys. I deleted those too. Did the DOS cleaning. Entered "scanreg /fix" (w/o quotes of course) before exiting, but it said "Bad command or file name." No errors reported when restarting Windows. Installed MEdefrag, and also the more current Scandisk that was in there. Ran both, with everything possible turned off. Defrag was done in minutes, scandisk took about 30 minutes. No errors found. Restarted again. Was curious to check some readings after all that. You had told me that many reg. keys would regenerate, but it was still a LOT better. EC found 15. Then I checked RS -- without deleting any with EC first -- and it found 141. (Still sounds like a lot though, if Bryan has only 51 and I'm not running anything out of the ordinary or much of it?) After the DOS temp cleanup, EC's removal tool (with all options selected) found only 26 files (had been hundreds before). Oh, and I guess my EC Start up Inspector questions are moot now, because since I did the maintenance steps it now only detects AVG, Windows, and Norton CrashGuard. One weird thing tho -- it doesn't detect Tiny, which is running at start up at the moment, and is detected by msconfig... Ok, current questions, but getting simpler! 1] Should I also run Purge, and/or delete the temps EC found? 2] Should I bother deleting the reg. keys both cleaners found after the first clean up, or are those probably the ones that will always regenerate? 3] In the MEdefrag folder after setup and initial run, the readme says that folder can be deleted if desired since it locates the new version of defrag to the C:\WINDOWS folder. I guess I'll do that, because right now there is a copy of the new version in both the MEdefrag folder AND the WINDOWS folder. But -- the new version of scandisk is in MEdefrag too, and that I want to save. Can I get rid of the old version in C:\WINDOWS just by deleting it straight from Windows Explorer? I don't see it in Add/Remove, and don't know if it has an uninstall somewhere. (Btw, the MEdefrag readme doesn't say anything about deleting the old version of defrag, which it renames "defrag.old." But I'd like to -- and that was one of the "Unnecessary" temp files found by EC....) 4] Since the steps above, I started all my main programs and they all seem to be running fine. Should I proceed with other stuff, maybe a couple hours in between, if all is well after each new one? What I'd like to do next is: -- Move on to EC's Unnecessary (temp) file and directory finder, and delete those if it sounded ok. -- Delete some files from its Duplicates finder. Tons of pairs/groups. As mentioned, wondering if I should have blind faith in EC. The dups found supposedly match on date, time, size and content. I didn't set the option to match by names too -- I figure that would let many/most go undetected. So, the names of the dups found are very diff from each other, and I didn't name them myself. Mostly what I guess you call system files. At least half of them must refer to my printer. -- Will do manual cleaning inside case (canned air, etc.). Do I touch metal before I go in? Need to move it off the carpet? Then after all this, if I'm still having problems (or even if I'm not?), I guess I could do the 'upgrade' to Win 95 (or was that the one that only would have helped if I had version A or lower currently?); reinstall AOL (that helped some online issues on my former PC). I know I know, better to ditch AOL. Maybe someday. I'm running nice right now, and will see if it keeps up through tomorrow. I enjoyed doing these steps tonight! Sleep well. =8^ )

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You may dispense with the old (original) version of defrag and never look back - the backup is made as kind of a nod to the insecure. New version of scandisk? From where? I've heard that using ME's Scandisk was recommended, but Whitphil (I think it was) shot that idea down. If you're receiving 'bad command or filename' when attempting to run scanreg, then it's just that DOS doesn't know where it is - did you start in 'command prompt' or 'Safe Mode command prompt' (which bypasses all sorts of things, like maybe any 'path' info)? You could either enter windows\command\scanreg /fix or else cd\windows\command scanreg /fix - that provides the path information (where the file actually is) The upgrade patch to 95A only works on plain old Windows 95 - if you're running any other version of 95 (A, B or C) then it won't work, and would have no benefit. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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I found 51 in looking in only the first key. I am sure I would have found a lot more had I looked in all of the keys as you were instructed. I tested MEScandisk against the Win98 version and they both took exactly 1 minute and 13 seconds each to run. Regarding the internal workings of Scandisk...I couldn't know if one does anything more or better than the other. I continue to use the Win98 version of Scandisk. I personally would not remove any System files. That folder gets cluttered but unless you can specifically identify a file as not being needed by anything you have I would let them be. Re: Tiny PF - It is important to identify what you are allowing. Right click on the system tray icon and select Firewall Administration, Advanced, Filter Rulles. On the left you can deselect or option to remove a listing. On the right side of the screen you can see the programs or applications that you have allowed access. When you have some time then go over the list to make sure yau want them all connecting. There is a box at the bottom of the window that should be checked (ticked), Ask for action when no rule is found. Of course many programs require that you create the rule to permit access like Internet Explorer, your email program and Anti Virus program. Many others need only be allowed on an as needed basis so for those don't create a rule, just allow it when you need. Wait until you have time for that investigation though. Bryan

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"New version of scandisk? From where?" Spoc probably got it from my MEdefrag.zip. I've included it in the "package". I've been running it for a couple of years now with absolutely no problems. On the other hand however, I have not seen any operational improvement over the 98SE version, (such as you see with defrag) as Bryan stated. Thus I've just never removed it from the zip since it didn't seem to matter one way or the other.

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Hi! Encouraging news -- I've been running great since I did the previously mentioned steps yesterday! Not a single crash/freeze yet! Boy, you're lucky, I'm tired tonight! Don't know if you'll be able to tell though! ;^ ) ============= If I become sure I don't want it, maybe I should save a ton of room by removing Norton SystemWorks completely? Jboy, about scanreg /fix -- I typed that in immediately after performing the DOS temp cleaning, while still in DOS at the same screen I did that from... And, I looked about 2/3 up the thread and realized that when I mentioned the "upgrade" to Win 95 thing again, I meant the following type, that DAVEINCAPS posted: "You mentioned your 95 was an upgrade version. It's possible you could 'upgrade' 95 to 95. Just start up the computer and then attempt the upgrade from within windows. I've never tried it but it should work OK. That may take care of the problem you're having." So if that makes sense for me, I assume I could keep it in mind as a future option if needed? DAN -- will this mean I need to "prove ownership" of whatever came before (Win 3.1?)? Dan, about your programs: Have you ever used the Duplicates feature in EC -- has it been accurate for you? Maybe, although I'm tempted, I will leave the system file listings alone as Bryan said. Do duplicates of that type cause performance problems at all? Is it safe enough to run its Unnecessary (temps) tool with all levels selected? Also, does Purge do the same things as the DOS cleaning? The scandisk that was in Dan's MEdefrag download (that only took 30 mins. to run for me) says it is version 4.90.3000 (2000). The existing version I have in my computer is 4.40.1111 (1996). So in my case, I assume I should keep the new one, right? Can I just delete the old version (its program icon) directly from Windows Explorer? Are EC, RS, msconfig and the the DOS cleaning ok for Windows XP too? This may cause you to bust a gut laughing, but when I visit my parents out of state, I'm responsible for giving their machine a check up! Yep, the blind leading the blind. Well ok, maybe I'm not THAT bad! Ok, even skipping my (minor) Tiny Talk for now! Goodnight all, thanks as always! :- )

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Ok - well, try entering the complete path if it happens again - that message means that the file can't be found because: it's not on the 'path' - - it doesn't exist - - or, it's misspelled. Right - I think what DAVE was talking about was a method of reinstalling 95 'on top of itself' in order to restore changed or corrupted files. Yes, the upgrade version of 95 would 'ask' for the 1st Win31 or WfW diskette - there's a 'cheat' for that, but it escapes me at the moment. Hopefully you have explorer set to 'show all files' and not to hide extensions etc - sure, deleting the program (not the shortcut icon) from Explorer will send the file to the Bin (shift-delete is a little more permanent) Contrary to popular belief, XP has little to do with DOS or DOS based versions of Windows (95, 98, ME). Generally, you would be best advised to use the XP equivalents of those programs (if they exist). All in all, sounds pretty encouraging. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Be careful with 'duplicates'. I have a digital camera. I store all of it's images on my PC. Each time I take a picture the first one is named PDRM0001.jpg. Each photo session is placed in it's own newly created folder. When I search for PDRM0001.jpg on my PC I find 54 of them and want to keep everyone of them. Many are the same size but, without looking, I suspect they are all of different dates though. None of the images are duplicates, Just the names and sizes of many are the same. WinXP has it's own tools that need to be used and no DOS. WinXP uses IE6 just like I do on my Win98 machine. IE's tools are the same. The Temporary Internet Files can be deleted from within IE Tools, Internet Options screen just like Win98. Instead of Scandisk it used CHKDISK or CHKDSK (not sure of it's name). It does have Defragmenter in it's Start, Programs, Accessories, System tools menu like Win98. (The path could be a little different too. I don't have XP and can not verify) It's defrag tool is different and nicer in some ways. The TIF folder can be deleted in WinXP but by using batch files that run from the registry's RUNONCE key. (That's another lesson for another day though). Regards, Bryan

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"In the MEdefrag folder after setup and initial run, the readme says that folder can be deleted if desired since it locates the new version of defrag to the C:\WINDOWS folder. I guess I'll do that, because right now there is a copy of the new version in both the MEdefrag folder AND the WINDOWS folder. But -- the new version of scandisk is in MEdefrag too, and that I want to save. Can I get rid of the old version in C:\WINDOWS just by deleting it straight from Windows Explorer? I don't see it in Add/Remove, and don't know if it has an uninstall somewhere. (Btw, the MEdefrag readme doesn't say anything about deleting the old version of defrag, which it renames "defrag.old." But I'd like to -- and that was one of the "Unnecessary" temp files found by EC....)" I gather you created a folder to unzip the MEdefag contents to. You can delete that entire folder. The install batch files rename the current versions of scandisk, scandskw, and defrag and place the new files in the correct locations. As jboy stated the .old versions can be deleted once it's verified that the new ones are working OK. (BTW, I stated I had included the scandisk in the package. This is in fact incorrect. Upon opening the zip file I see that it's one I found on the net which already included it. (~Now~ I remember.) I had found numerous downloads for defrag, but this was the only one which included scandisk as well.) "Have you ever used the Duplicates feature in EC..." Actually, no. I know I have many duplicate files on my system because of the way I do certain things. ie; I'll copy folders etc over to other hard disks/partitions for safe keeping. I have two 40 GB hard disks partitioned C: through M:. (Actually, I just ran it and the program stopped responding because of the amount of files it found! I guess it's time for ~me~ to do a clean up.) So the best advice I can offer on this is to absorb the Help contents on this aspect of the program. The same as above for unnecessary files. I've just never really used other facets of those programs. "1] Should I also run Purge, and/or delete the temps EC found?" Purge will delete the temps if you choose that option. "Also, does Purge do the same things as the DOS cleaning? Yes. It ~is~ the dos cleaning as it must be run in raw dos mode. If you right click on purge.bat and choose EDIT, the file will open in Notepad and you'll see commands there which are very similar to what Bryan typed out early on in this posting. "Generally, you would be best advised to use the XP equivalents of those programs (if they exist)." I strongly agree. I'll post the relevant contents of the purge readme here for ease; Readme.txt for Purge.bat Oct. 26, 2003 Written and developed by Dan Penny Save this file (PURGE.BAT) to the root directory of C: (or somewhere you can get to easily in DOS, or somewhere in your PATH statement). When you delete your cookies, some websites which you visit which require your login name and password will be gone, so the first visit back to these sites will require you to enter these again. So know your user names and passwords. These will remain in the auto-entry mode when you visit these sites until you run PURGE.BAT again. To boot to raw dos; ----------------------- During power up, hold down either the Ctrl key, or the F8 key. This will boot you to the Microsoft Start Up Menu. At the menu, choose COMMAND PROMPT ONLY. At the C:\> prompt, type in PURGE. This will start the file and give you prompts for your choices. You can also cause the Microsoft Start Up Menu to be run each time you boot. While in Windows, go to START, RUN, MSCONFIG. Click on ADVANCED (near the bottom right hand corner of the window). Click on ENABLE STARTUP MENU to place a checkmark in the box. Click OK, and then click OK again. You will be prompted to restart your computer. Answer YES and restart. All successive boots will give you the options on this Startup Menu. To remove the Startup Menu, reverse the above process. Disclaimer ------------- I provide this file free and without warranty. Use at your own risk. If you aren't aware of what this file does, DO NOT USE IT!

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Hi guys! Things are still running great as of now, big difference! I just can't thank you enough! This really was all worth it, I would have surely procrastinated my way into accelerated PC demise if it hadn't been for this. In this post I'm just chewing some PC fat with you guys around the figurative Computing.net water cooler, so don't let me put you out, because the really important stuff has been dealt with. Would be great to make sure I don't remove scandisk incorrectly tho! I am on a quest to keep as much room free as possible, and suppose I could screw myself that way. But, I am going to skip removing "duplicate" system files. =========== When I installed MEdefrag and the version of scandisk that was in the package, my old version of defrag did automatically get named "defrag.old," which I'll delete. But the old version of scandisk didn't get auto renamed that way when I installed it. I just have the old "scandisk" version in the Windows folder, and the new "scandskw" version in the folder I created for MEdefrag. So if I delete scandisk, it will be the existing program as it always was, located in Windows, not an .old file. On installation the new scandskw did not relocate a copy of itself to Windows like the new defrag did. I guess I'll move the new scandskw to Windows if it can be; then delete the old scandisk that's also in there. After that, should I rename scandskw to scandisk? I thought maybe other system files expect there to be a program named "scandisk." Then again maybe renaming it would confuse the remaining new version. (Leave it to me to think of things like this!) Anyway, after all that then I'll delete the MEdefrag folder. "Hopefully you have explorer set to 'show all files' and not to hide extensions etc - sure, deleting the program (not the shortcut icon) from Explorer will send the file to the Bin (shift-delete is a little more permanent).." Actually, my questions along these lines were mainly brought on because as mentioned, I thought I had probably been removing things incorrectly for a long time. If it wasn't in Add/Remove programs, I'd just delete it from Explorer. But then again, I guess there's nothing else one can do, even though other programs may have become dependent on what you're deleting so maybe it's a gamble sometimes. Jboy, when you refer to hidden files and extensions being set to show, does that mean I should locate and delete all other files related to the old scandisk version (maybe using "Find") if I'm gonna get rid of it? I assumed I just needed to delete the main program *icon from the Windows folder in explorer... *When I say 'icon,' I don't mean a shortcut, I mean the cute little pictures of things that I click on to run applications *from* the Program or Windows folders. Not the cute little pictures located elsewhere (e.g. desktop) that have the little arrow on them indicating they are shortcuts. But I'm thinking maybe the kind I'm referring to are also shortcuts in some way? Because often I have the little picture icon for something that I click on in explorer to run it, which says "Application" in Properties; but then there is also an icon of a window (? the white squares with w/ blue borders) for that thing that also say "Application" in Properties. If I have both of these for the old scandisk version, should they both be deleted? Whew, I doubt I managed to convey what I meant to there! Bryan, I looked in Tiny Admin. As of now, the only rules that appear and are ticked under "Description" are Loopback, DNS, Outgoing ICMP Echo Request, Incoming ICMP Echo Reply, three entries for AOL, "Any" Outgoing ICMP, and four entries for ICMP Incoming and ICMP Outgoing. Those are followed by entries under "Local" that say either "Any" or "Any Port;" and entries under "Application" that say "Any" for all of them except AOL, where it says "AOL." Under the tab "Application's MD5," there are entries for AOL, IE, and Tiny. Should there be one in there for AVG too? If you have any way of knowing, do all of the above rules/setup sound standard? I know I could experiment with unticking things to see if I can still *get* online, but figuring out what I should say yes to *while* online is harder... I've said no to everything and haven't been bumped off, but do get barraged with more recurring questions than one would want to deal with. I figured I better say yes to ones that are coming from or going to something ending in .aol, because now I'm getting that ancient kind of AOL popup that asks "Do you want to stay online" (and will disconnect you if you're not there to click 'yes'). I just said yes to a couple .aol things a few minutes ago, and it did still pop up again to ask if I wanted to stay online a few seconds later. Don't know if it will continue or if that was "one more annoyance for the road" from AOL. Maybe that intermittent popup could instead have something to do with the access number from another city that I just had to start connecting with (due to work on my local access numbers). Heck, maybe the problems that *lead* to the work on my local access numbers were what was causing some of my crashes. (But if so, it clearly wasn't all that was wrong w/ my PC!) Btw, I turned off the options/filter rules in Tiny that were related to M$ Networking, as I don't think that applies to me and I'm not sharing files. =========== Many many thanks again guys for the improved performance and disaster prevention!!! :^ )

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You rules are similar to mine. I have a few others that I have created rules for. What you do is simply take mental notes of those that continually ask. If it is something that you want to allow to connect then create a rule to allow it. Otherwise just let them keep asking. There are others that I don't want to ever connect and I create a rule for them so they stop asking (Everest Dictionary checking for a newer version is one of them.) It appears that you use Explorer with the view set as "Large Icons" (I find that too difficult to see what's what. I have mine set to show "details". It gives more 'details') If it were my machine I would delete the new scandiskw and keep the one you had because your shortcut in your Start, Programs folder will look for it but that is up to you. You could rename the new one so it will find it. I, personally, not familiar with it's use on Win95. Did you ever get scanreg /fix to work in the DOS command prompt? Bryan

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Not every program that you run needs to be installed/uninstalled - these are often referred to as 'standalone' programs - they generally run from their own folder, require no special DLLs etc and impact the registry only slightly. Those usually can be safely deleted without much fuss, although there may be some minor registry cleanup - but that wouldn't be essential. Also, if you're replacing a file with the same name, in the same folder, all the Windows pointers will be... the same - so nothing really needs to be done in that regard. Sure, I wasn't exactly clear on your original meaning - the M$ default is to keep the user in the dark by hiding files & extensions. As for those pesky arrows and 'shortcut to' labels, I prefer them to be not. Sometimes displaying the large icons can simplify things, but if I'm doing any 'real' work, I too prefer the detailed view. Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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If you installed the MEdefrag package from my webspace, this is what should have happened; (ren is the short form of the dos rename command) ren C:\Windows\command\scandisk.exe scandisk.old ren C:\Windows\command\scandisk.ini scandisk.nin ren C:\Windows\scandskw.exe scandskw.old xcopy scandskw.exe C:\Windows xcopy scandisk.exe C:\Windows\command xcopy scandisk.ini C:\Windows\command Don't rename any of the scandisk files. Scandisk.exe is the dos version and scandskw.exe is the windows version. "...I would delete the new scandiskw and keep the one you had because your shortcut in your Start, Programs folder will look for it but that is up to you." AND; "...if you're replacing a file with the same name, in the same folder, all the Windows pointers will be... the same - so nothing really needs to be done in that regard." Right, you can delete all the .old files. Just make sure all the new ones went to the right place. The above info should show you where things should be. The AOL "Do you want to continue online?" popup should stay available. It's an AOL "timer". ie; if you happen to be reading something and just scrolling AOL sees it as inactivity. You have to provide "input" in order to keep them from bumping you off. This includes large downloads. It used to bug me (I used to have AOL) that I'd have to sit there and provide "input" every 8 to 10 minutes during the download to stay online and thereby not loose the download by being bumped off. This may have been fixed in later versions. I used to run 5.0, 6.0, 7.0 and was a beta tester for 8.0. That's when I switched ISP's. Way too many controls. I'm much happier and saner now. ;>)

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Dang - I knew I'd missed something - yes, scandisk.exe & scandiskw.exe are both keepers Tech Support: "I need you to boot the computer." Customer: THUMP! Pause. "No, that didn't help."

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Hi! I'm still running with no problems! :-) "If you installed the MEdefrag package from my webspace, this is what should have happened; (ren is the short form of the dos rename command)...." "Right, you can delete all the .old files. Just make sure all the new ones went to the right place. The above info should show you where things should be..." I did install it from the MEdefrag pkg. at your webspace. But apparently it didn't go as detailed in your post. I assumed that was because the readme process info in the MEdefrag folder (where it also refers to later deleting the folder) was only written for defrag... And that the scandisk you included wasn't set up in the same way -- to auto rename something and copy itself elsewhere. No? I couldn't tell from the responses if I had described things clearly, so forgive me if I try again! I have two versions of scandisk now. In the "disposable" MEdefrag folder that one creates initially, there is the new version, 4.90, comprised of scandisk.exe and scandskw.exe. (There are also other files for it -- like configuration settings. Do I need to keep that?) In the Windows folder, there is only scandskw.exe, and it is my old (4.40) version. There is scandisk.exe for the old version located in two other places: the Command and Cabs folders (don't know why or if it matters that it's in Cabs too, but it's the identical file). But yes, they are both from the old 4.40 version and there are none for the new version in either. And, btw, there are no files ending in .old for scandisk/dskw anywhere at all (looked, and used Find to gather all components by either name). So, I had wanted to keep the new scandisk. To *safely* delete the old version (as opposed to .old, there are none); move the new one into Windows (tho some programs won't allow moving, will have to see); then delete the MEdefrag folder. Had basically just meant to inquire about correct removal of those kinds of components, and you've explained that it's ok to just delete from explorer. But now with the new information, it sounds tricky again. The new scandisk/dskw files indeed do not appear to be where they should be. So I would have to delete the .exe files for the old version that are in Commands and Cabs, and place the new one there.... No big deal *if* I clearly have the concept right...? (THERE might be a good time to give things new names, at least temporarily! Forget my name change question previously, I definitely screwed up that point!) Hmmmm! Maybe I should just skip it all and leave both, but am tired of unneeded stuff taking up room! ================= I haven't re-tried scanreg /fix, but will. I did enter it from Command Prompt in DOS (right after finishing w/ temps. And I bet you can guess that I checked my spelling and spacing several hundred times! ;). I was wondering if that could somehow be related to all this new/old scandisk stuff. Can't remember in what I order I installed all the programs I downloaded. ============ "The AOL "Do you want to continue online?" popup should stay available. It's an AOL "timer". ie; if you happen to be reading something and just scrolling AOL sees it as inactivity. You have to provide "input" in order to keep them from bumping you off... " I meant that it just started, and I've had AOL since the nineties. I haven't seen that popup in YEARS. I thought they stopped it when unlimited use became standard. I do have a lower version of AOL with this computer, but used to have a current one (on a now-dead PC) and it didn't happen with dial-up with that. And I use my parent's current version of AOL with dial-up when visiting, and they don't get the popup. So I could only assume that saying no to Tiny's questions online was stopping something from "feeling me" in whatever way that is done now; or that it has to do with the access number from a smaller town that I had to start using the other day. Still might not sound logical, but since it JUST started when those two changes occurred.... But no biggie! I could call them I suppose. Ok, thanks for stopping in all! Have I told you lately how swell you are? :^ )

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... or! A third thing changed right around when the popups started (that is how us detectives piece things together! ;) Although I've surfed in marathons on this PC off and on for years (and tons since summer) without getting the AOL "stay online?" popup, I did just clean some things up on it as you know. Maybe I was supposed to be getting that popup with this version all along, but something was screwed up and stopped it. Maybe that's why I crashed while online a lot. Nah, that's probably stoopid. And the crashes didn't happen in regular intervals. And even now, the popups are not at all regularly spaced. E.g. hours without, then a couple close together. But wait -- that does mean the popup spacing just might match the former crash spacing.... Oh, who cares! Nevermind! ;)

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OK, when you unzip the MEdefrag package, you should end up with the new files (defrag.exe, scandisk.exe, scandisk.ini, and scandskw.exe) and four batch files. Two of these batch files are for the installs, and the other two are in case you later wish to un-install the new files (given that you didn't delete the .old files). Did you run both install batch files? One for defrag and the other for scandisk/scandskw. For clarification, the new files should go to; defrag.exe = c:\windows scandskw.exe = c:\windows scandisk.exe = c:\windows\command scandisk.ini = c:\windows\command If you want, you can copy them from your folder where you unzipped them (MEdefrag?) over to the proper destinations. You will be asked if you want to overwrite the existing file. Just click YES. Then navigate to those folders and if you find the .old & .nin files, delete them. At this point you can delete your MEdefrag (unzip) folder. If you have problems or things are unclear, post back.

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Ok, bottom line (and brief even) is that one way or another, all scandisk thingees are now where they're supposed to be! And it seems to run fine. Scandisk case closed! :- ) But I did just try scanreg /fix again. Still "Bad command or filename." All I'm doing is pressing F8 during boot up, selecting Command Prompt Only from the DOS Start up menu, and entering scanreg /fix after the C prompt (and hitting enter where appropriate obviously). Does this point to something else that might help spiff me up if I fix it? Goodmorning!

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Scanreg/fix certainly won't hurt anything. At the C:\> prompt try typing in; c:\windows\command\scanreg/fix This is the directory (folder) that the program resides in in 98 and 98SE. (As I stated early on, I'm not that familiar with 95 as I jumped from 3.11 straight to 98SE, which is why I called in the reinforcements for help with your issues.) ;>) But I think(?) scanreg.exe should be there. You could add "c:\windows\command" to your path statement in c:\autoexec.bat for future ease. Just open c:\autoexec.bat (if it exists, probably does) by R-clicking on it and choosing EDIT. If there's already a path statement there you just add the (above in quotes) to it (without the quotes). It should look something like; PATH \;C:\WINDOWS;C:\windows\command;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM;D:;D:\COMMAND;D:\BATCH;D:\GHOST;D:\TOOLBOX;E:;F:\PKWARE;C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6 This is mine, your milage may vary. ;>) but the syntax is there. It's all on one line (it's been truncated here for space) and there is a ; between each drive&directory with no spaces. You have a total of 127 characters for the line.

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Ok, I'll try those scanreg things. If neither takes care of it, I guess I'll just skip it. (But if by chance it's *not* ok to skip it, or it's a really helpful tool that one wouldn't want to be without, please let me know). Ok, THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!! This was a really exceptional effort you made, and I really appreciate it! ;^ )

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