I really need your help on this one.

It is an older computer given to a friend, it's a PII, 64 RAM, 12 GB Hard Drive, in two partitions 6 GB each, C: and D: drives, with WIN98se.
The computer has been working fine.
Routine scandisk always fine. No errors.

Today while working she received and error Unable to Write to C:

Will not reboot, I received-
Disk Boot Failure, Insert system disk & press enter.

So I reboot with a startup disk.
C:dir
It shows c: drive with only 15 files
594,217 used, 1,487,872 used (2GB)
I did a scandisk c: - No errors

I tried Fdisk and Fdisk /status
NO FDISK PRESENT

I tried Format C:
FORMAT NOT SUPPORT
ON DRIVE C:
FORMAT TERMINATED

The BIOS is Award Modular BIOS v.460 PGMA

The computer sees a c:, so the cable must be attached.
Help, What can I do next?
She would be happy to get the 2GB back instead of 12. Anything?
SAM

DON'T FORMAT..you'll lose everything! why the heck would you want to do that?? Save that as an absolute last resort!

Make sure you have the correct boot floppy for your operating system...the floppy MUST contain FDISK & FORMAT files & you must run them from the A: prompt, not the C: prompt

How about a more detailed explanation about this: "Today while working she received and error Unable to Write to C:" - What was she doing at the time?

I suspect that she hasn't told you the whole story. A 6gb partition doesn't change to a 2gb partition without some user doing it. It sounds like someone repartitioned the drive and attempted an install.

I might have misinterpreted what you wrote. If it's not a 2gb partition, ignore what I poated.

The startup disk does have fdisk and format commands on the disk. I double checked a:dir, both files are listed on the startup disk.
I even make a second startup disk just to be sure.

I did try to run these commands from a:

She was working on Quickbooks, posting a ticket just like she does everyday.

I'm confused also about the 12GB (2-6's) hard drive only showing, 2 GB of space and files.

The reason I tried format is that this computer is connected to a network, no data is kept on this computer, it's just use as a work station and she has the original programs for Quickbooks and Word and Win98se to reinstall if needed.

I have told you the whole story, that why I'm asking for help. I never seen anything like this.
SAM

Sam, I accused her of possibly not telling the whole story, not you.

If you have a win98 startup floppy, boot from it and run fdisk. You might have to make sure that the floppy is first in the bios boot sequence. If fdisk doesn't recognize the drive, it could be that it's an NTFS drive. If you have to remove everything and start from scratch, download and run DelPart to remove all partitioning.

I'm saying 2 gb because
c:dir shows
15 files 594,217 bytes
0 dir 1,487,872 bytes free

They are dos system files dated 5/6/98 and 4/23/99.
SAM

I agree with ham30...I don't think she's telling you the whole story

Sounds like the hard drive or BIOS may be bad. Open the case, find out what vendor the hard drive is, Quantum, Western Digital, etc., then download that vendor's hard drive diagnostic program. It will tell you if the hard drive is really bad. Also try resetting the BIOS to defaults, or attempt to flash the BIOS, to see if it can properly recognize the hard drive.

Reseat the HD cable, just in case it came loose.

Good Luck,

The BIOS boot seq. is A,C,SCSI

Windows 98 Startup Menu starts. I've started with and without CD-ROM support.

I get the warning that Windows98 detected Drive c does not have valid FAT or FAT32.

Diagostic tools were successfully loaded to drive c:

A:dir
fdisk and format are there and so are all the regular dos startup files.

a:fdisk
NO FDISK PRESENT

THANKS
SAM

The hard drive may not be properly recognized in the BIOS. Have the BIOS redetect the hard drive automatically.

Also, make another startup disk from another Win98SE computer. Almost sounds like the startup disk is corrupted, or the floppy has bad sectors where some startup files are not being loaded into memory properly.

You've stated the clue to the mystery yourself;

"Diagostic tools were successfully loaded to drive c:"

This is the (2GB) RAMDRIVE created by the bootdisk. The system has failed to "see" the hard drive, so the ramdrive created is given the device label of C:.

Go into your bios and check the hard drive parameters. Also check the time and the date. If it's wandering, the cmos battery may be (going) bad, thus cmos is "loosing" the hard drive settings.

Forgot to add; The drive itself may be going bad. Find out the make and model number of the drive. From there you can go to the manufacturers website and download their drive diagnostics to check the drive once it's again recognized in the bios. (If it'll recognize, though some of these diagnostic tools bypass the bios settings anyway. As long as the power and data cables are good and connected properly, the drive is usually found anyway for testing.)

Very good Dan. I feel like an idiot for not picking up on that.

There's no idiots here ham30. Just helpers. Sometimes we all miss things. ;>) I'm certainly guilty of it. Cheers

I had considered mentioning a bad CMOS battery as well, but I was hoping for a clearer explanation or what happened. I don't think the HDD parameters would just go out in the middle of use, would they? I can see things getting messed up after a complete shutdown & restart, or maybe a reboot, but once the machine's powered up & running, isn't the battery "taken out of play"?

"isn't the battery "taken out of play"?"

Yes. However, cmos settings can wander slightly, allowing the drive to still "function", but things can get jumbled on the drive with slightly different settings. Then the next time the system is booted, the same thing may occur, thereby further scrambling things, until eventually.....

Jam, if you check you will find out that the ramdrive created by the win98 startup floppy is 2mb (594,217KB used, 1,487,872KB unused). Sam mistakenly indicated it was 2GB instead of 2MB.

Sure - "NO FDISK PRESENT" is a pretty unusual message, but 'no fixed disk present' means there is no hard drive seen by the system, making 'C:' the ramdrive letter assignment.

I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime

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ham30, you do mean this, right?

"...created by the win98 startup floppy is 2mb (594,217 Bytes used, 1,487,872 Bytes unused)..."

Yes Sarahhh. Something wrong?

OOOps just checked again, Sarahhh. Yup, you got it right. Thanks for the correction. :-)

Sorry about the mixup between the 2gb and 2 mb

I do know the startup says the BIOS is Award Modular BIOS v.460 PGMA. The computer is at my office and I will post back more information about the bios and hard drive tomorrow afternoon.

You asked about a clearer explanation, just let me know what you need.

I have tried two different startup disk.

I appreciate you help. This really has me puzzled.
Thanks
SAM

Sam, check Dan Penny's response #12. The hard drive probably has a problem (it may be dead). Get a diagnostic from the hard drive manufacturer's web site.

Go into cmos and make sure the HD is identified properly--usually as AUTO. Make sure the HD controllers are enabled.

Is it possible the HD has a drive overlay on it? I'd think a P-II would see a 12 gig OK but maybe not. If a bios can't correctly see a HD it'll either misidentify it--usually as 8 gig--or it won't see it at all.

In the event it doesn't see it at all you need to manually enter a C/H/S setting for the drive in cmos or set the cylinder limiting jumper on the drive. A typical C/H/S setting would be 16383/16/63. That's for an 8 gig and is the maximum a bios can use before it must use LBA.

Also check that the power and data connections are secure and correct.

Maybe it's just dead. With the case open put your ear as close as you can to the drive and see if you can hear it spin up when you turn the computer on.

Here is the information from the setup

ROM PCI/ISA BIOS (2A69KF09)
CMOS SETUP UTILITY
AWARD SOFTWARE, INC.

Clock is correct

Hard Drive
Pri Master AUTO
Pri Slave AUTO
Sec Master AUTO
Sec Slave AUTO

As the screen starts up there is a Intel Boot Agent Ver 3.0.05
it shows
PRI Master NONE
PRI SLAVE NONE
SEC MASTER NONE
SEC SLAVE NONE

It feels and sounds like the drive turns once.

Here is the information on the Hard drive
QUANTUM FIREBALL CX
13.6AT CX13A461 REV02.B A3FOB
SN 934926710290 PAPPXX
16383 CYL; 16 HD; 63 SECTORS
DELL PN 005300T-12543-9AR-03N9 REV.A00

Connection seem secure.

I will try Dan Penny #12 response next

Go to the manufacturers website and download their drive diagnostics to check the drive once it's again recognized in the bios.

You guy are the best and help more than you know. Thanks
SAM

Ah, good old Quantums. I have four now that I use for paperweights. I just a couple of months ago replaced the two (20GB) Quantum Fireball drives in my current system with two Western Digital 40 GB drives. One (the main drive, C:) started developing bad sectors, and with experience I've had with two previous Quantum drives I've had, I decided to replace them both. The first two of the four are totally dead, and I do have the two 20GB Fireball drives in a backup system I use to experiment with, so they're not really paperweights. Yet.

Yeah - they can be bad & still spin (don't I know it)

I've refurbished many a system - I don't know what I find more of - dead Quantum or dead WD 'Caviar' drives - at least on older machines.

Can't hurt to try the diagnostic, but odds are it'll only (at best) generate an error code telling you the cause of the failure.

I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime

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Hmmm, all my ~old~ Caviar drives (280, 2250) are still functioning. Not to mention the ones that have gone out "into the field" for systems I've put together for friends kids to play around on.

Hey jboy, need/want any old 30 pin memory sticks? ;>)

I couldn't find the diagnostic infor I need but I agree with you and I'm going to replace the hard drive, I need to find one that a 10 or 20GB. Everything I find is 40 GB.

It was a little scary, I never had one just die with no warning, I'm glad that is was just the workstation computer.

Thanks for taking the time to help me.
SAM

Maxtor now owns Quantum. Here's the link for their Powermax drive testing utility;

http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/maxtor/?epi_menuItemID=3c67e325e0a6b1f6294198b091346068&epi_menuID=976d37cd478c5826433f226075b46068&epi_baseMenuID=976d37cd478c5826433f226075b46068&channelpath=/en_us/Support/Software%20Downloads/ATA%20Hard%20Drives&downloadID=22

Once you download the file (it's near 1MB) click on it with a floppy in your drive and it will format the floppy and create the bootdisk for testing the drive(s).

40GB is pretty well the smallest (new) drive you'll find nowadays.

Another thing, if your machine boot sequence is not set up for a floppy boot as the first device, you'll need to set this up in your bios.

Oh sure, far from a scientific survey, (and I do have some that are years old and still running) but Quantums & Caviars make up most of the 'dead' drives I find.

That Powermax creates its own (DR DOS) bootdisk - but every time I use it, it tells me what I already know - bad hard drive ; (

30 pin SIMMs? - - you betcha - some of my relics are languishing for want of them)

Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed.

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I have a bag of 30 pin simm if anybody's interested. Just laying around here in a drawer taking up space. If anyone can use it let me know.

I assume the computer has a cdrom. It's odd that with all the drive types set to AUTO the posting screen isn't finding the cdrom either. Check again in cmos to make sure the HD/IDE controllers are enabled. It'll be on a different page than the HD settings. If the controllers aren't enabled the bios won't find the drives regardless of how they're configured.

If they're already enabled then that's not the problem. Go back to the HD setting and change it from AUTO to a user type and use the 16383/16/63. Save and exit cmos. Boot from a bootdisk and run fdisk just to see if it then finds a drive.

I am coming in rather late but I am doing so because of what happened about 30 minutes ago on my Win98SE PC.

A couple of months ago I upgraded to McAfee Virus Scan version 8. Many folks besides myself have a unique problem with this version where after updating a new definition file as soon as one restarts the PC you get a Stack overflow blue screen message. I have been working with McAfee in getting this corrected Re: This forum post. They have sent me an email stating they will let me know when they fix it. I have been since logging the results of the updates.

Ok, I don't mean to bore anyone but I do so incase it also relates to Sam's problem.

McAfee comes out with at least one definition file per week on Wednesdays.

This morning I start the PC and it downloads the file. I have it set to not install right away. In this case I had it wait ten minutes. After the ten minutes I installed it. When it completes the installation I click the Finish button where upon the PC restarts on it's own without any prompt (a secondary problem related to this version 8 of McAfee).

The PC goes through Scandisk and then starts up to the Windows desktop. I then wanted a normal startup so I go to Start, Shutdown, Restart.
It comes to the POST screen and gives me the No disks found error.
I go to BIOS setup screen, change it to boot from floppy, insert the startup disk and restart after saving CMOS.

I go to Autodetect the drives and it shows no information (Cyl, heads etc.), all zeros.
I exit CMOS again to start the PC and sure enough I get the disk failure and not detected and the floppy loads to C: drive as the RAM drive.

I did get a screen telling three possible reasons for it not seeing the hard drives. One suggested that I may be using a third party's partitioning software and to cheack that. The third suggested the possibility of a virus infection.
None of them applied to mine.

I exited out and got no where. Since the C: drive was not seen scanreg /restore was not an option.

I hit the power button to shut it off and comptemplated how much it would cost for a new PC.

I sat there for a minute or so and then hit the power button to turn it back on.
It started up normally right to the desktop without a problem.

The point of my story...I am thinking it is a failing power supply and will install a new one today that I already have on hand.

If I can ask a question now...If my power supply is failing would I even see the POST and CMOS screens? I am thinking it does not have enough power for the hard drives but does for the POST and CMOS screens. Would this make any sense?

Thanks and regards,
Bryan

I checked the hard drive, It was dead.

I replace it with another hard drive and the computer in up and running and I'm reinstalling.

Thanks for walking me through it.
SAM

Good stuff - glad you're up & running again.

You're not the first to be fooled by that 'phantom' C: drive business.

Terri - I confess, I am kind of a hardware junkie. Don't do a whole lot of anything useful with the old boxes, but I do like to keep them running.

I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime

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98SE has no problem decting a larger drive .
40Gig is the smallest drive that you can find , but that is ok , you can devide the drive into two 20 Gig partition's

? Is there "McAfee" , or "Norton Disk Doctor" that was on the system ? This is why i am asking both group's of software keep a track of information regarding "CMOS" setting's for the purpose of replacing "CMOS" back onto the system , so definately replace the battery on the motherboard , then load "NORTON" , AND load the "CMOS" BACK onto the system !