Hi Eyal, Mesich, The Count-Mesich's co-webmaster, hi everyone, I read all of the posts very quickly, so that I maybe lost some lines... Just wanted to point out that true MS-Dos (last one was v.6.22) was completely different from the pseudo-Dos that came with Ws9x (I don't remember exactly regarding Win95). So, if you wanted to boot and work in genuine Dos, I think that you would have to: - install Dos in a separate partition (remember MSDos.sys and IBMDos.sys were completely different) - or - boot from a Dos22-bootdisk especially designed to point to the right paths and full C:\Dos (Dos v.6.22) Ms-Dos v7 is only a little thing! HTH Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Dos 7 is really the full Dos. You will find all the Dos applications in c:\windows\command. Dos 6.22 does have a couple of applications that Dos 7 eliminated, but Dos 6.22 is not compatible with Win9X. Unless you have some special need for Dos 6.22 I would stay with the normal win9X Dos.

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Hi Frenchie, "...true MS-Dos (last one was v.6.22) was completely different from the pseudo-Dos that came with Ws9x..." I would like to discuss that with you and get deeper in to it. If Eyal goes with my response #5 or option 2 in my response #6, he/she should be able to work in genuine DOS. This of course assuming that MS-DOS 6.xx was originally installed and a upgrade of Windows 95 was performed. Eyal, sorry for stealing your thread. ;) Greetz, The Count

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Also you can download a file called OLDODO.exe from Microsoft FTP or my PowerLoad Resorce Site (Address above - Its on the DOS & Win9x pages) MS-DOS is really only three files - IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS & Command.Com! While version 7x MSDOS.SYS is differant to earler versions, MS-DOS 7x is no less powerfull becouse it is a 'little thing' Locate the files at C:\Windows\Command and add OLDDOS files. If loaded via its batch file VER is patched. You will have a full blown MS-DOS version. Since all other files are only add-ons & utilities to make the best of DOS. Do not be fooled by the Windows Version when you type VER You have the real thing!

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Sorry that is OLDDOS.exe Major Typo!!!!

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Hi The Count, harvey, hi everyone, I must think of all that old stuff... C:\Windows\Command does not display all of the programs that we had with Dos 6.22... sorry not to remember very well: maybe not critical but TREE doesn't exist any longer; HELP doesn't exist any longer. The function that are in both Dos 6.22 and 7 were more powerful in 6.22: for example, FIND had the number of "good lines" in a file; I guess XTREE were far more powerful! Ms-Dos v6.22 was completely different: it needed 2 hidden files (MSdos.sys and IBMbio.sys -sorry, I wrote IBMdos.sys, a mistake-) and Command.com + sophisticated Config.sys with a complex Memory management. MSdos.sys was not a text file! So, MSDos 6.22 had a different bootup. I agree that, if we want to toggle between 9x and Dos and if possible (depending on the needs), it's better to use the Dos 7 that came with Ws9x. But if we want pure Dos, we must install 6.22 and have the special Boot in a dedicated partition. Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone, >I want to setup my old computer to boot >directly into dos without windows. >I figured out that I should boot from a >startup disk and than type " sys c: " >will it work? - without windows... install MS-Dos 6.22! - sys c: will it work?... that depends on the Dos on the floppy! -- if your bootdisk is a Dos6.22, sys c: will "destroy" your Dos 7 and Windows! -- if your bootdisk is a Dos7, no problem but no need either! HTH Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone, I'm sorry to be so late as to respond to the initial question but I was very busy during my workday! :-( Response #1 (Mesich) OK with Win95, not with Ws98 ( as far as I know, Ws98 ignores Autoexec.bat so, adding command at the end will do nothing) Response #2 (Eyal) >What MS-DOS version will boot if I use that >solution? >(The OS installed is WIN95) It will be Ms-Dos 7 (as Mesich stated). >I have installation of MS-DOS 6, If I >install in the WIN95 and than change the >autoexec.bat will it boot into dos 6? To really install Dos 6.22, you must perform a sys c: that will replace and overwrite MsDos.sys and Command.com and Windows 95 will not start again! Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Mick C, I didn't see your responses #10 & 11 when I responded (12 & 13). Mick C, your posts are very good! thanks for OLDDOS.exe! Have a good... night, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi everyone, The Count (response #5)... Win-ME will not lead to Dos pressing a function Key at bootup... it needs a bootdisk! Have a good day/night Gérard from Paris, France

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That became my most replied thread ever (: Thank you Mesich, The Count, Frenchie, Harvey, Mick C. Currem OS is W95 which I dont need, best results would be booting into installed DOS 6.22 Frenchie wrote: "To really install Dos 6.22, you must perform a sys c: that will replace and overwrite MsDos.sys and Command.com and Windows 95 will not start again!" Could you please describe how to do that sys c: operation? should I change the boot file before the sys c: operation? Thanks everyone

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Hi everyone, Frenchie, as far as I can recall XTREE was third party software. Great tool though. "...as far as I know, Ws98 ignores Autoexec.bat..." I disagree, Win98 doesn't ignore Autoexec.bat nor Config.sys. Remember that there is the [F8]key or [Ctrl]key you can hit during the boot sequence to get access to the Microsoft Windows Boot Menu. I still believe that if you choose to boot to the previous installed OS, you'll boot in to MS-DOS. Maybe you've got a point about Win Me, but in the event that Eyal had MS-DOS previously installed and upgraded to Win95 the "old" DOS directory is still there on his/her C: drive. Unless of course it somewhere in time got deleted. Which brings me to another now non-existent external DOS command, undelete. As far as I recall IBMbio.sys and IBMdos.sys were included with the "MS-DOS" setup disks provided by IBM when you bought a IBM-PS/2 or so. And the two files may also have been included with DRDOS and/or Caldera-DOS. But, and I'm almost certain about that, not with MS-DOS from Microsoft. In the root of a real MS-DOS 6.20 computer there are: MSDOS.sys, IO.sys, DBLSPACE.bin (all three hidden, system, read-only files), Command.com, Config.sys and Autoexec.bat. In the root of a real MS-DOS 6.22 computer there are: MSDOS.sys, IO.sys, DRVSPACE.bin (all three hidden, system, read-only files), Command.com, Config.sys and Autoexec.bat. Greetz, The Count

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Sorry Eyal, I didn't notice your reply till now as I was typing my own. Are we reading, or at least I, you correct and do you not want to be able to start Windows 95 anymore? Unless you do a re-install of Windows 95, in which case you'll need the registration code/key? Greetz, The Count

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Hi The Count, Eyal, hi everyone, The Count... wasn't there TREE? probably an internal command in Dos>=5... don't remember XTREE... but I'm not sure! You're right regarding Autoexec.bat! As Win3.1 needed WIN as the last line to call Windows... As Ws98 didn't need such line... I concluded Windows98 didn't read Autoexec.bat but it was abusive! I just added ECHO xxx and PAUSE to my Autoexec.bat (Ws98SE)... yes, I got the commands! :-( You are right regarding IO.SYS... At the good old time of Dos ;-) I was working on IBM computers and I tend to mix everything between MS-Dos and IBM-Dos. Eyal... I suggest you bootup with a MS-Dos 6.22 system disk and perform: - SYS c: that will install IO.SYS MSDOS.SYS COMMAND.COM (that will "destroy" Win95 installation) - create Config.sys and Autoexec.bat (Config.sys was more sophisticated than nowadays) MEMMAKER will help optimizing these files. - Copy all of the Dos floppies into C:\Dos - If you have enough space on the disk, this solution will permit you to keep everything "almost ready" to go back to Windows 95 (just a SYS C: with a Win95 bootdisk). The Count... do you agree with my lines? Have a good day (I'm going to bed now as it is 2:00a here) Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, Eyal, hi everyone, Frenchie...yes there was the TREE (external) command, I just quickly glanced in to the good old "Microsoft MS-DOS® Operating System version 5.0 User's Guide and Reference" book and there was no TREE command in it, so I guess it came with MS-DOS version 6.0. You were the one whom mentioned XTREE, response #12, the first time. ;-) For completeness Win 3.11 for workgroups, needs/needed the WIN entry in the Autoexec.bat too, to "automatically" launch Windows on boot. ...Live and learn... :-) The good old time of DOS, those were the day's... :-) I was working on all kind of PC's, but mostly on the so called "clone's". I think it's best to first, check that the files on the disks aren't "compressed". If they are, the file extension looks like this: .EX_ or .CO_ etc. (take notice of the underscore after the two letters behind the dot). In that case it would be wise to wait till we have discussed what's best to do. Further more, I never have been a fan of MEMMAKER. I used to get more done manually than with MEMMAKER. So the safest thing, that I think, you could do for now is first check those DOS setup disks to see whether or not the files are compressed. Second via your Windows Explorer, check if you already have DOS folder on your C: drive and if so verify that it's not empty. If there is a DOS folder and it's not empty, as far as I'm concerned, you could (at least for now) proceed with my Response #5. If for some reason the [F4]key, as mentioned, doesn't do the trick try the [F8]key to get access to the Microsoft Windows Boot Menu and from there choose the Previous installed OS. At the DOS prompt type in: ver[Enter]key to verify which version of MSDOS.sys and Command.com is loaded. Post back your progress, I'll be checking this thread tomorrow and I suppose Frenchie will to. Greetz, The Count... out (June 27th, 03:35 hours)

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MS-DOS main files are: IO.SYS MSDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM IBM.DOS & all versions of DR-DOS use: IBMBIO.SYS IBMDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM (Just to confuse matters some OEM versions of MS-DOS also used IBM files i.e. Zenith 3.21) But the two file sets were never mixed. OLDDOS as stated in my Posts 10 & 11 contians copies of: Append.exe Chkstate.exe Graphics.exe Graphics.pro (needed for Graphics.exe) Help.com Help.hlp (The MS-DOS 6.22 Help File) Ibstsupp.bat (Interlink file) Interlink.exe Intersvr.exe Loadfix.com Memmaker.Exe Memmaker.hlp Memmaker.inf Monoumb.386 Qbasic.exe (Needed by Help files) Restore.exe Sizer.exe Tree.exe Undelete.exe Some older MS-DOS files were not added becouse of interaction with Win9x systems such as DEFRAG One major drawback with MS-DOS 6.22 on newer systems is the 2 GigaByte Partition Limit. If you have a 20GB Drive you would need 10 Paratitions. MS-DOS 7.0 can handle larger drives, and MS-DOS 7.10 from Win95c onwards with FAT32 manages them better with smaller cluster sizes. You would however need to patch it with 3XSTART if you wanted to load Win 3.1 on its own or with Win9x

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Mick C, The Count, It's nice to see you, 15-year old people, speaking so "knowledgedly" about Dos! ;-) LOL Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Dear Frenchie, I take your comments to heart! Oh to be 15 again.

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I've to correct some of what I wrote yesterday. :%) "In the root of a real MS-DOS 6.20 computer there are: MSDOS.sys, IO.sys, DBLSPACE.bin (all three hidden, system, read-only files),..." "In the root of a real MS-DOS 6.22 computer there are: MSDOS.sys, IO.sys, DRVSPACE.bin (all three hidden, system, read-only files),..." I've checked on my son's (he'll be 15 next year) old 80486 SX-33 computer running MS-DOS 6.20, and Mike C is absolutely right! MS-DOS main files are: IO.SYS MSDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM The two .bin files I mentioned, reside in the DOS directory/folder and not in the root. Mike C...Good point on the partition limitation. Could you provide me with some info on 3XSTART, never heard of this before. :-( A link would be fine, thanks. Greetz, The Count

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You will find 3XSTART on my 3x Resource page at PowerLoad, which I started in 1995 when I was 6˝ (I was an early learner!)

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Thanks Mike C, I'll take a look later on this night or tomorrow. Greetz, The Count

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Mick C, Your Web site is a diamond mine... I guess I'm going to visit it often next days! Good to remind me of that past! ;-) Thank you! Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Mike C, Quite a impressive list of tools and patches etc. you've got up there. I've added your site to my favorites. It will become handy sooner or later, I'm sure! :-) I did find the 3XSTART.exe download file, but no additional information as to what you've already posted here. I was hoping for more reading stuff about it. :-( Greetz, The Count

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Hi The Count, and everyone, Thanks for repling The Count wrote : "I think it's best to first, check that the files on the disks aren't "compressed". If they are, the file extension looks like this: .EX_ or .CO_ etc. (take notice of the underscore after the two letters behind the dot). In that case it would be wise to wait till we have discussed what's best to do." Boot disk files are compressed, I think.. If you do not mind to take a look, I created list here: http://pitf4ll.homestead.com/files/html/4IN1.html The Count wrote : "Second via your Windows Explorer, check if you already have DOS folder on your C: drive and if so verify that it's not empty. If there is a DOS folder and it's not empty, as far as I'm concerned, you could (at least for now) proceed with my Response #5. If for some reason the [F4]key, as mentioned, doesn't do the trick try the [F8]key to get access to the Microsoft Windows Boot Menu and from there choose the Previous installed OS. At the DOS prompt type in: ver[Enter]key to verify which version of MSDOS.sys and Command.com is loaded. " Could not find the DOS folder on C: Thanks again for helping me (:

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone You're very welcome. "Boot disk files are compressed, I think.." By the looks of it, yes they are. And therefor, in my humble opinion, it's no good to simply copy the lot to a folder named DOS on your C: drive. You would be missing a substantial amount of functionality. "Could not find the DOS folder on C:" Conclusion: Either when Windows 95 was installed, it was a clean install. Or the DOS directory/folder has been removed, somewhere in time, after the upgrade to Windows 95. Eyal, what is your comment on response #19? Do you want to totally get rid of Windows 95, or do you still want to have the ability to "go back" to the current configuration? The latter will be harder, but should be possible. Do you guys agree with the above? Post back, and we'll try to guide you through the required process to reach your goal. Greetz, The Count

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Hi Eyal, The Count, hi everyone, >Do you guys agree with the above? Yes, OK the Count, I agree with you! Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, Eyal, hi everyone I thought you would, just needed the confirmation. :-) I'm glad to see your still sticking around! Hope Mike C is too. Depending on Eyal's comment, we'll need to discuss the approach. A straight forward fdisk and format, or move partitions around with PM or something similar. Greetz, The Count

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Hi All! After reading all the posts again, I was thinking a total reformat myself. After backing up any data he may wish to save for future use. I did not like the idea of SYSing MS-DOS 6.22 onto a 'Windows 95' install! A lot of files left over that you could not access. If Eyal has MS-DOS 6.22 install disk set, he could format and install 6.22 followed by if he so wished a fresh install of Win95 which would then become a dual boot system.

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Hi Mike C, Eyal, Frenchie, hi everyone "...I was thinking a total reformat myself." "...install 6.22 followed by if he so wished a fresh install of Win95 which would then become a dual boot system." It would be the easiest and quickest way, but I think it's up to Eyal. I wasn't thinking of SYSing. The harder way I was thinking of is: creating a second partition (2GB), hiding the current partition and setting the new one active. (with PM or similar program) All of the above like you correctly stated: "After backing up any data he may wish to save for future use." Greetz, The Count

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Hi The Count, Frenchie, Mike C, Everyone Thank you so much for your help! Disk is old and only first 800mb functioning. It is probably possible to create 1 - 500MB partition for WIN95 and 1 - 300MB partition for DOS, but quiet useless since so little space.. Therefore I think best and easier is 800MB as 1 partition just for DOS, no need for WIN95. I formatted that 800MB partition using "format c:" from win98 boot disk Whats next? (: Thanks again Eyal

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mike C, hi everyone "Disk is old and only first 800mb functioning." Out of curiosity, was it that way (800 MB) too when you were running Windows 95? "Therefore I think best and easier is 800MB as 1 partition just for DOS..." Okay, then that's what we are going to set you up with. :) "I formatted that 800MB partition using "format c:" from win98 boot disk" I'm sorry to inform you, but we are going to start over... "Whats next?" First you may want to delete the existing partition, and recreate a new one. When booting with the DOS Setup Disk 1, the setup of DOS could automatically start (don't recall that part, to long ago :-) ), exit to the A: prompt by pressing the [F3]key. Boot with your DOS Setup Disk 1, and at the A: prompt type in: fdisk[Enter]key choose option 4, it should only display one partition. Press the [Esc]key, and choose option: 3. Type the number (1) that corresponds with the drive letter, and type the volume label of the drive to be deleted. Type Y to delete the partition or drive. Press the [Esc]key. Now you'll create a new partition. 1) Follow the instructions given here: How-To Partition and Format a Hard Drive (http://www.mesich.com/format1.html) N.B> Ignore this part: "You'll probably be asked if you..." as it doesn't apply for you, as you are going to install MS-DOS 6.22. Where it reads bootdisk, read DOS Setup Disk 1 instead. 2) Now your hard drive is partitioned, and formatted with real MS-DOS and you are ready to proceed with the Setup of MS-DOS. With the DOS Setup Disk 1 still in the floppy drive after the format, type in: setup[Enter]key And follow the instructions given, acknoldge, OK or Yes to the few screens that will pass along, sit back and wait a little while. 3) When the Setup is done, and your computers boots up without the bootdisk in the Floppy drive, at the DOS prompt type in: edit config.sys[Enter]key Write down the contents, and post it back here. To exit the Edit program, hold down the [Alt]key and press the [F]key, scroll down to Exit or simply hit the [E]key and press the [Enter]key. Do the samething for the Autoexec.bat. edit autoexec.bat[Enter]key) Good luck! Greetz, The Count

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Hi The Count, Everybody Done. Thank you! CONFIG.SYS: ----------- DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.exe DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS DOS=HIGH COUNTRY=061,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,A) FILES=30 AUTOEXEC.BAT ------------ C:\DOS\SMARTDRIVE.exe /X @ECHO OFF PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\DOS SET TEMP=C:\DOS MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((437) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI) MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=437 Is it ok? Thanks again, Eyal

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Hi Eyal, The Count, Mick C, hi everyone, Very good instructions, The Count! (I didn't remember about setup; I suppose that performed format /c and copy all files to c:\Dos) I let The Count or Mick C continue with instructions. Just a remark: SET TEMP=C:\DOS should be changed to - create a C:\Temp folder - change line in Autoexec.bat to SET TEMP=C:\TEMP What do you get booting the computer from hard disk and typing VER? I think, Config.sys & Autoexec.bat have to be improved with a better management of extended/expanded/upper/high (LOL OK for high) memory (manually or using MemMaker -that Mick C dislikes-) Then Eyal has to install personal applications. Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi The Count, Frenchie, Mick C, everybody Thanks for your help Created TEMP dir on C: (MD C:\TEMP) Changed the line in Autoexec.bat to: SET TEMP=C:\TEMP Typing "VER" shows: "MS-DOS Version 6.22" Ready for next step (: Thanks again Eyal

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mike C, hi everyone "Done. Thank you!" Not quite. :-) You're welcome! "Is it ok?" Almost... Like Frenchie already pointed out, Config.sys & Autoexec.bat have to be improved. Thank you, Frenchie, glad to see you approve. :-) I do like your instructions too! (Link in a other thread) Great minds think a like. I would have changed the Set Temp as well into SET TEMP=C:\TEMP. For the record, I'm the one who dislikes MEMMAKER. ;-) (Response #21) Don't know about Mike C. "What do you get booting the computer from hard disk and typing VER?" I expect Eyal will be replying with: MS-DOS Version 6.22, we'll have to wait and see. Okay, now lets rearrange the two files. Eyal, you can open and alter them as shown earlier with the edit command. Before proceding you might want to type in at the C: prompt mem /c > mem_old.txt[Enter]key This is for later reference, and to see the difference after the modifications. Make them both look exactly like underneath. The Blue lines are new entries. The Orange lines are modified lines. Config.sys DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.exe NOEMS NOVCPI DOS=HIGH,UMB FILES=40 BUFFERS=20 STACKS=0,0 rem --- If you want to use the following lines, alter them like shown. Personally, I rarely needed them and thus deleted them or placed a remark in front of them so that they would be ignored during boot --- rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.exe rem COUNTRY=061,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,A) _________________________________________________________ Autoexec.bat @ECHO OFF LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRIVE.exe /X PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\;C:\DOS; SET TEMP=C:\TEMP rem --- If you want to use the following lines, alter them like shown. Personally, I rarely needed them and thus deleted them or placed a remark in front of them so that they would be ignored during boot --- rem SET TMP=C:\TEMP rem MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((437) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI) rem MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=437 _________________________________________________________ At the C: prompt type in: md C:\Temp[Enter]key Reboot your computer, once you have made and saved the modifications and when booted type in once more: mem /c > mem_new.txt[Enter]key You can copy the two text files to floppy disk, and paste it's contents here. I would like to compare the two to review the gain. Hope I haven't missed a spot. ;-) Good luck! Greetz, The Count

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mike C, hi everyone Just saw your last post, and you've already made a good start! Is the next step, see previous post, big enough for you? :-) Frenchie, ignore this line in my previous post as Eyal already confirmed it. :-) "I expect Eyal will be replying with: MS-DOS Version 6.22, we'll have to wait and see." Greetz, The Count

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This has become the longest thread I have seen on Computing.Net for a long time. About MS-DOS on the Windows 95 forum at that! I normally answer on the DOS & Win31 forums. I am glad that Eyal has what he wants at long last! I have nothing to add 'The Count' has covered it well. I agree that a C:\Temp file is neater since you can clean it up without having to worry about deleting a DOS file. After talking about OLDDOS for MS-DOS 7.0 I also have the MS-DOS 6.22 Supplimental Files (Sometimes called Disk 4) on my resorce pages as well. It contains the MS-DOS 5.0 & 6x files left out of 6.22. Best one being to my mind DOSSHELL a DOS menu & file manager.

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Hi The Count, Eyal, Mick C, hi everyone, Very good job The Count! ;-) You have a very clear mind and perfect memory (or very neat documents ;-) Congratulations! ... and very good feed back from Eyal too! In Response #39, >I let The Count or Mick C continue with >instructions. I wrote that, in order not to interfere with The Count/Mick C's instructions. I just advised an "obvious" C:\TEMP (nothing worse than to have several series of instructions) I was right to let you give instructions! >"What do you get booting the computer from >hard disk and typing VER?" I just wanted to be sure everything was fine and that there was no misunderstanding (but Eyal is very clear too). >Frenchie, ignore this line in my previous >post as Eyal already confirmed it. :-) Don't worry, I had taken a look at times and understood posts were written at the same time! I'm very glad Eyal wants to work under Dos... and that The Count & Mick C still are so good at Dos (my youth)! Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, Mick, Count, and Eyal, What a great thread! Excellent responses from all of you and feedback from Eyal. I am sure many as myself, have or will learn a lot from all of your responses. Good Day! Mesich

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mike C, Mesich, hi everyone Thank you all for the very kind words, you're all to kind. :-) But the credits should also go to you guys! You're, among a whole bunch of others, the ones whom make these forums to what they are. A very pleasant, neat, help- and resourceful site. "...a very clear mind..." At the moment, the last couple of days and the upcoming days, YES. No Bordeaux wine nor beer for me, due to some medication (pills) I need to take temporarily. 8-P Just coffee, loads, and Orange Juice. "...perfect memory (or very neat documents..." I wish. LOL It's nice to see you popped back in, Mesich. Welcome back! :-) Greetz, The Count

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Hi Mesich, >I am sure many as myself, have or will >learn a lot from all of your responses. Are you convinced you should erase XP and install MS-Dos??? ;-) LOL Enjoy your day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi everyone, "Are you convinced you should erase XP and install MS-Dos???" ROFL ;-) Greetz, The Count

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Formating right now! Good Day! Mesich

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Hi The Count, Mesich, Frenchie, Mick C, and everyone Thank you very much for helping me! The Count, in response#37 you asked: "..Out of curiosity, was it that way (800 MB) too when you were running Windows 95 ?" Yes. tried to low format etc.. But it did not help, so I thought a DOS machine would make a decent retirement for this PC (-: Meanwhile, here, a tiny matter when booting: Starting MS-DOS… HIMEM is testing extended memory…done. File not found C:\> I modified the 2 files and deleted the unnecessary(?) lines and it looks like this: "Config.sys" DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\DOS\ DOS=HIGH,UMB EMM386.EXE NOEMS NOVCPI FILES=40 BUFFERS=20 STACKS=0,0 "Autoexec.bat" @ECHO OFF LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRIVE.exe /X PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\;C:\DOS; SET TEMP=C:\TEMP I Also created the 2 "mem_old/new.txt" files, but did not post it here yet.. Thanks again! Eyal

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone, Let The Count confirm but I think there are mistakes in 2 lines of Config.sys; it should be like below: DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.exe NOEMS NOVCPI DOS=HIGH,UMB (explanations: EMM386.exe is a program located in C:\Dos folder, DOS=HIGH,UMB doesn't correspond to a program, it's a command). That explains the "File not found" line. Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, The Count, everyone Please forgive my lame typing, it was late at night. Config.sys: DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.exe NOEMS NOVCPI DOS=HIGH,UMB FILES=40 BUFFERS=20 STACKS=0,0 Autoexec.bat: @ECHO OFF LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRIVE.exe /X PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\;C:\DOS; SET TEMP=C:\TEMP Still getting "File not found" after HIMEM done testing extended memory. Thanks again Eyal

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone, Regarding "File not found"... - Would you like to check about Smartdrive in C:\DOS? typing CD \DOS DIR smartd*.exe what is displayed? CD\ - I bet it is SMARTDRV.exe so you have to change a line in Autoexec.bat to LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.exe /X Please, post back! Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, hi everyone "typing CD \DOS DIR smartd*.exe what is displayed?" Volume in drive C is MS-DOS_6 Volume Serial Number is 2EDD-793D Dierctory of C:\DOS SMARTDRV EXE 45,145 05-31-94 6:22a 1 file(s) 45,145 bytes 831,504,384 bytes free I modified the line in Autoexec.bat to: "LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.exe /X" No error message now ((-: mem_old.txt: ------------ Modules using memory below 1 MB: Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory ------ MSDOS 14,301 (14K) 14,301 (14K) 0 (0K) SETVER 480 (0K) 480 (0K) 0 (0K) HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K) DISPLAY 8,304 (8K) 8,304 (8K) 0 (0K) COMMAND 2,928 (3K) 2,928 (3K) 0 (0K) SMARTDRV 29,024 (28K) 29,024 (28K) 0 (0K) Free 599,104 (585K) 599,104 (585K) 0 (0K) Memory Summary: Type of Memory Total = Used + Free - ---------- ---------- Conventional 655,360 56,256 599,104 Upper 0 0 0 Reserved 393,216 393,216 0 Extended (XMS) 32,505,856 2,162,688 30,343,168 - ---------- ---------- Total memory 33,554,432 2,612,160 30,942,272 Total under 1 MB 655,360 56,256 599,104 Largest executable program size 599,008 (585K) Largest free upper memory block 0 (0K) MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area. mem_new.txt: ------------ Modules using memory below 1 MB: Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory ------ MSDOS 13,005 (13K) 13,005 (13K) 0 (0K) HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K) EMM386 3,120 (3K) 3,120 (3K) 0 (0K) COMMAND 2,928 (3K) 2,928 (3K) 0 (0K) SMARTDRV 29,024 (28K) 0 (0K) 29,024 (28K) Free 764,576 (747K) 635,040 (620K) 129,536 (127K) Memory Summary: Type of Memory Total = Used + Free - ---------- ---------- Conventional 655,360 20,320 635,040 Upper 158,560 29,024 129,536 Reserved 393,216 393,216 0 Extended (XMS) 32,347,296 2,307,232 30,040,064 - ---------- ---------- Total memory 33,554,432 2,749,792 30,804,640 Total under 1 MB 813,920 49,344 764,576 Largest executable program size 634,944 (620K) Largest free upper memory block 129,440 (126K) MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area. This is, definitely, the best help I ever got! Thank you very much. Is there anything else to do before installing stuff? Thanks (: Eyal

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Hi Eyal, The Count, Mick C, Mesich, hi everyone, Very good Eyal! I'm not a Dos expert like The Count or Mick C... I had a quick look at mem-*.txts above: Everything looks fine! if The Count or Mick C saw something, it would not be critical! You can now install your applications. Thanks to have reported everything that thoroughly! (sorry to have asked you to copy many things... I hope you could often do XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt to copy and paste). ... I don't feel like giving up... ;-) Do you know you could install a modem, setup a network from Dos, install an Internet browser... LOL Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Frenchie, The Count, hi everybody "Do you know you could install a modem, setup a network from Dos, install an Internet browser... LOL" I didnt know that, is there a "how to" page anywhere? The DOS machine is now going to the kinder garden (next to my home) and will stay there for the kids (5 years old) to play old but great DOS games. Here, created a new partition on my better machine, and going to set the whole thing again, for myself this time. Thank you The Count, Frenchie, Mick C, Mesich Thanks you so much for your kind help!!! I will keep on reading all your posts here and around these forums. Warm regards Eyal

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Hi Eyal, hi everyone, You're welcome, Eyal! I'm so glad this good computer is going to be used by kids! ;-) I hope you got a collection of lovely programs (games). Will be a pleasure to read you again! ;-) Warm regards, Gérard from Paris, France

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mick C, Mesich, hi everyone First I want to apologize for my belayed reply, I should have mention that I would be of to work during the day. Sorry! Frenchie, thank you very much for covering my back! :-) Also I want to mention that you caught my error very well! End well, all well! :-) It was a horrible mistake of mine. :-( Was a bit lazy and simply did a copy & paste without paying to much attention. I'm embarrassed, as I wrote near the end of response # 41; "Hope I haven't missed a spot. ;-)" Ooh well, I'm only human and humans make mistakes. :-) Frenchie, I've a burning question: "I hope you could often do XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt to copy and paste)" You've lost me there. :-( What do you mean with XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt? And yet another one. :-) "...setup a network from Dos..." a) How's that? Interlnk/Intersrv? That's no network, at least not in my humble opinion. As I think of it a bit more, would you be steering at installing Windows 3.11 for Workgroups? b) Do you happen to know How To share, I mean really share like in Windows, a drive under DOS thus without the use of Win 3.11? Eyal, Congratulations you've done a very fine job! :-)) We've only given the instructions, you did all the hard labor. ;-) Your detailed replies made it a real pleasure, and ease for us. Thanks! When I read; "I modified the line in Autoexec.bat to: "LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.exe /X" No error message now ((-:" I, almost, dropped out of my chair in unbelief. :-) The reason for that was the statement: No error message now ((-: beneath the line where the quotes (") were typed around the line LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.exe /X. My first thought was, that's impossible!, I now realize and assume that there aren't any quotes around the line in your Autoexec.bat. Right? I suppose you for yourself already noticed the differences in the two text files, but just in case here are the major differences. (the summary) Before Largest executable program size 599,008 (585K) Largest free upper memory block 0 (0K) After Largest executable program size 634,944 (620K) Largest free upper memory block 129,440 (126K) That should make your DOS programs run real smooth. :-) If you plan to install Windows 3.1 or Windows 3.11, there is one thing you'll need to keep in mind. When Windows is installed, there will be couple of modifications made to your Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files, in your disadvantage. :-( If you would at the DOS prompt type in: mem /c /p[Enter]key you'll notice a decrease of the Largest executable program size and Largest free upper memory block. You can easily correct this by readjusting these lines. The red marked need to be deleted. The Orange line is a modified line. Config.sys DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.exe NOEMS NOVCPI STACKS=0,0 _________________________________________________ Autoexec.bat LH C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.exe /X _________________________________________________ I'm convinced the kids will be very happy with the computer packed up with it's "old" DOS games. "... I don't feel like giving up... ;-) Do you know you could install a modem, setup a network from Dos, install an Internet browser... LOL" Neither do I... if it's okay with you I'm going to pass the stick to you Frenchie. I'll sit back being nice and quiet, and watch along over your shoulder. LOL For now it was, and I'm sure it will continue to be a real pleasure working with you guys. Thanks! Warm Regards from The Netherlands, The Count (June 30th, 23:28 hours)

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Hi The Count, Eyal, hi everyone, >First I want to apologize... >It was a horrible mistake of mine... No worries, the Count! You wonderfully adviced! ;-) What's nice on a forum and especially in this thread is that several people can build a very good solution! ;-) >"I hope you could often do >XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt (to copy and >paste)" >You've lost me there. :-( What do you mean >with XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt? Well, it really seems you don't want to close this thread... LOL I just meant that instead of copying every word displayed on Dos screens, I hoped Eyal thought about creating a text file typing DIR SMARTD*.EXE>smart.txt or mem /c /p>mem-x.txt or, in general xxxcommandxxx>a:file.txt then transfer the files on a floppy to copy and paste here. >"... I don't feel like giving up... ;-) >Do you know you could install a modem, >setup a network from Dos, install an >Internet browser... LOL" Hey! it was mainly a joke!!! ... of course, you can setup a network in Dos! - years ago, for my first steps in networking, I was using LANtastic which was a LAN for MS-Dos and Windows 3.1 (before 3.11)... I think I may still have everything, cards and programs. - I am a member of a nice French forum on which we sometimes discuss the subject: I just searched 'msdos network' and found 25 threads... you must learn French to go further, now! ;-) - look at the links provided by Google -> Google 'msdos networking' Have a good day, Gérard from Paris, France

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Im Glad Eyal has what he wants and all loose ends seem to be tidy now. I will bid farwell to this interesting post. May come back in a week just to see if any further last minuate action has taken place. Meet with you all again some day! Mick C

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Hi The Count, hi everyone "I now realize and assume that there aren't any quotes around the line in your Autoexec.bat. Right?" Right. no quotes in the Autoexec.bat, Please forgive me not noticing that in the pre-post page. Thank you very much, The Count, for your help so far and for new tips reg WIN 3.x Here, Installing Games is not done yet, have to assign irq 5 to soundcard, will probably have to change jumpers on the sound card tomorrow. Thanks again (: Eyal

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Hi Eyal, Frenchie, Mick C, Mesich, hi everyone Frenchie, thanks. I now see what you meant with: "I hope you could often do XXXCOMMANDXXX>a:file.txt (to copy and paste)" I've seen LANtastic once! To connect, share files and printers between two Windows 98 computers %-) and a computer running MS-DOS. I took some time to try and figure out, how and where the NIC drivers were loaded and where the IP-address was assigned on the DOS machine. But was sadly enough not successful. ;-( As for learning French, I hoped my son would continue doing so. The last two years, besides English lessons, he had French lessons at school. This year he also had German lessons, and had to make a choice for next year. He chose English and ....German. :-( But there still is some hope, if he can attend the Higher General Secondary Education next school year, he may continue with the French lessons. :-) Whether or not he'll be able to attend Higher General Secondary Education depends on how he made his final tests, his overall score and if the teachers think he'll be able to handle it. He, the little lady and myself have all confidence he can. Eyal, thanks once more for answering my question, and confirming my assumption. :-) Anytime! Hope you didn't find the side chats disturbing. "Well, it really seems you don't want to close this thread..." No not really, but I've a sad feeling, like Mike C said; "...this interesting post...", is reaching his end... :( A interesting post it is/was, where several people built a very good solution! Greetz, The Count

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