Ooops sorry was typing my last entry and didn't see your posts! Will read, try, and report back... Oh btw when I say I get stuck at the DOS start menu, I mean the screen where safe mode is one of just a few numbered choices, so yes it's readily available each and every time. (Quite tired of looking at it! ;)

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... I meant, safe mode is available *and* yes I can successfully get into it. Feel more than free to list any more ideas from that mode! :) Ok will be back...

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Scanreg /restore might work. But it will restore the references to the virii you removed. This could make matters worse. I think it might be better not to use it at this stage.

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It might help but not quite knowing what you did I regard scanreg /restore as a fairly big hammer right now. Mixing a previous registry with some sort of possible file muddle could be counter productive. My feeling is that you should try to locate the problem using #4 & #5 first. They are just investigative, harmless and will not lose anything. I'm not precluding scanreg /restore but just putting it on the back burner for a while. Up to you obviously. DerekW

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Hey folks we're all overlapping madly. Hope you can guess what came first LOL. DerekW

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Ok: from msconfig, there was nothing in the config tab and in autoexec tab there was only AVG and Echo off. Turned them off, restarted, same old loop. In Device Manager, there are yellow questions marks next to "Other Devices" and its contents, two PCI Universal Serial Bus entries. Then under USB Controllers, there are red Xs next to two entries for "Unknown Device..." Trying the bootlog.txt ran me through the same loop, landing me at the startup menu without ever flashing any lines of text or info...

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...digression... why o why doesn't this site enable email notification of replies, so I could hear from across the room when I should come look at something, waaaahhh! (It's ok, I can cry, my name may be spoc but it ain't THAT spock, I'm a girl! Oh not that only girls should cry or anything... ;).

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In MSconfig, you might like to look at the startup tab. I would re-enable the AVG line as that starts the anti virus during boot. The logged startup was expected to fail. Now if you open the file 'bootlog.txt' and have a look at the last few lines. Post them back here if you don't understand them.

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Am hip to the msconfig start tab, and have selective start up set to only include familiar necessities/ok stuff. The bootlog.text file... I searched for it using 'Find' (all dates/file types) from the safe mode Start menu, and... didn't... Is there some other way/place I should be looking for it?

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...excuse me, I mean I did search for bootlog.txt not .text (I can't type!!!!)

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Spoc Yes, tick back all in autoexec.bat (it's fine). We try to avoid resorting to email because others might benefit from the forum discussions. Bootlog.txt is in the root C drive. Rimfire Any thoughts on the two PCI Universal Serial Bus entries? If it's USB's then I would have thought they don't relate to the main problem. I'm wondering if AVG took out some system file or crucial registry entries. Scanreg /restore tempting but it might restore virus. I suppose there's Windows overlay as a last resort.... DerekW

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spoc Bootlog.txt is a hidden file so maybe you are not set to show them. Go to Start button/Settings/Folder Options/View Under Hidden Files put the blob in "show all files". While you are there untick "Hide file extensions for known file types". Best to leave it that way forever (MS love to hide things from us). Try finding Bootlog.txt again or just look in the root of C from either Windows Explorer or My Computer. DerekW

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... off to bed (early hours in UK). CU. DerekW

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There should one located in the root directory (C:\) even if there was none created when you tried the logged bootup. If it is not there, you could acchieve the same thing by using the interactive startup in msconfig.

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Other things I had done prior to that fateful restart when this began, in case it gives any clues (yeah I know, should never do a bunch of things at once like this!): Downloaded a couple/few programs, and may have installed with other windows open/apps running at the same time (a no no right?). And -- may not have restarted in between them, as they often prompt you to, to finish installation... (Only totally safe and popular programs though, AVG, Spywareblaster, Tiny pfw...). Earlier that day, had installed a couple hours worth (by dialup) of MS Critical Updates... But am sure I restarted after that, with no problem. After the updates and before the other downloads, had removed some spyware w/ spybot & adaware (downloaded to an external hard drive only). Only non-standard item appeared to be pup.exe, a.k.a funkypup. (Actually you're supposed to remove spyware BEFORE doing MS updates right... Probably before anything! The virus would have still been in there too, through the updates and all of the downloads... Oh, it was only a single virus found/removed by AVG. downloader.revop.a. Had been on the loose for a looong time without making itself obvious to my friend... or to me, the half day I had full use of the machine. Just throwing random things out there!

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ok I take soooo long to type, I see I missed new posts while doing so! So the above was written before reading them, which I am off to do now...

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Hey Derek, just starting to read but had to clarify, didn't mean direct email, meant email *notification*... you know, how most message boards let you subscribe to threads and get an email notice when there are new posts to it. That would 'ring my bell' so I knew to come check the thread.

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You can keep track of posts with 'MyComputing.Net' and the ever handy Computing.Net "Buddy" Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid. -John Wayne

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Wow! We are overlapping quite alot. Spoc, at the top of this page you will find a link to 'My Computing.net' if you click on that, you will find another link to computing.net buddy. This will open another browser window that checks for messages every ten minutes. I suspect the USB problem is because safe mode doesn't load drivers. I'll reboot and check now.

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Can any of it email us reply notices tho? I don't have trouble finding my threads once here, it would just be nice to be notified when to come here.... Most boards do, and this is a tech one, so...! Odd it doesn't, I think. Notices would help people avoid crossing posts too, if they could hear their new mail sound go off and check in case it was a reply. But never mind me, I need to go check the important stuff you guys posted! In the meantime... what would I lose with a windows overlay, why is that a last resort? As far as the virus getting loose again w/ scanreg, it was loose for months... Appears to have been dnld 1/24. My friend didn't use the laptop that much, but still... Maybe it can't do much harm very fast, and I could use the start disk/avg's instructions *correctly* this time... I am more worried about losing software (if that happens with scanreg) than unleashing the virus again. (I didn't even read up on that virus tho, but if it was already in there sooo long...)

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This was an overlap tooo! haven't read the above yet either!! See, we need email notices! ;)

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Couldn't resist one last look before shuteye. I just believe it's best to explore other avenues before Windows Overlay, which is a bit of a sledgehammer. Having said that it usually goes quite well and you don't lose any of your own stuff. There might be the odd program needs re-installing or some Windows Updates, plus any of your own pet settings. See how you get on tho ..... DerekW

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Ok my post asking if it can email us was actually a reply to jboy, didn't notice a new person had joined and hadn't read any of this yet!!! Thank you both for the Buddy info, that's new since I last poked around for options ands will help. Major sidetrack here! Ok really on my way now to catch up on what has been advised as of now! (But as soon as I post this I'll see a post saying "No, I told you it refreshes the page only..." and I'll have to clarify and and and! ;-)

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I checked in safe mode, the usb devices do not show up as problematic. I doubt that this would be the cause of the problem. Quite possibly the owner doesn't use any USB devices and has never loaded the drivers. If there are any peripherals connected, it might be a good idea to disconnect them at this stage and remove them as a possible cause.

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Actually I only asked you to post the last few lines! There's acouple of problems there. Firstly, none of the fonts seem to have loaded. This may be a problem with the hard drive. Try running scandisk. The unknown is undoubtably the problem. This is loading where the device drivers should be. On mine the video drivers are first on the list. You might be able to overcome this with the command 'scanreg /fix'.

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I ran scandisk yesterday and it didn't find any errors. Before that I had also used some Start > Help utility I found, to scan for corrupted files (was not scandisk) and it found and repaired (or replaced, whatever) one... Didn’t help. Just in case that is something someone would have suggested. This I noticed while probing in safe mode yesterday, probably means nothing.... In cp> system properties> performance tab, ‘virtual memory’ says I am in MS-Dos Compatibility Mode... Details blurb says “Compatibility mode paging reduces overall system performance” and “Drives A and C are using...” that mode. Sounds like it usually means something needs updated drivers. Gives other non-crucial sounding info too, but bottom line is it sounds like a performance-reducer only, so probably unrelated... Ok, will try scanreg /fix... stoopid question and I might be in there taking stabs at it by the time you see this but... do I navigate to a c:\ prompt to enter it or...?

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Yes, you need to be at a dos prompt. Boot to command line only. Enter 'scanreg /fix' at the prompt and press enter. I understand that this will take a while to complete.

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Oooooh DRAT!!! That was SO exciting.... especially at the end when it said it had fixed my registry... but you guessed it... no change. :(

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I think it might be time to try scanreg /restore. Same deal as the previous step.

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Just so I know, besides the virus coming back, what else can happen or be lost, that makes scanreg /restore kind of a "big hammer?" Give it to me straight. ;) FYI, just got it so I have no documents or custom data to worry about, just software. (But yes, gotta do what I gotta do.) Also, I guess if the virus is back I'll need to download AVG again (if it will disappear w/ scanreg?), but guessing I can't create the rescue disks in it that it called for in this case, since it will already be infected? Also will need to learn FIRST this time how to use the win98 start disk right! (To 'heal' it according to AVG instructions.) Although I guess I can't be sure my own maneuvers caused all this. Note, maybe it would be better to burn AVG on this other machine first, but I don't know how to do that yet so would hate to stop and learn unless it would be waaaayyyyyyy better... And the virus had been loose so long anyway, without wreaking havoc (apparently)... what's a couple more hours (AVG dnld time)... What's this Dr. Watson diagnostic utility I just stumbled across, any way that can help?

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Hey that's a good point spoc... if I can't create AV rescue disks on an already-infected system (correct?), I won't be able to follow AVG's removal advice, and will only end up deleting the virus in safe mode again, and all this might happen over again... But guess I have to take that chance, and hope that instead it was actually me that screwed up the boot... On the other hand, AVG must have a reason for not mentioning/recommending safe mode removal (would be easiest)... Ouch, my head! But I guess I really do need to have a plan of attack before I begin...

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Scanreg /restore replaces the registry with one that was created earlier. Windows creates these restore point the first time you start up the computer each day and keeps five of them. Restoring the registry will not bring back a virus. It will bring back the reference to it and will generate an error message when the virus is looked for during the boot process. All the programs that have been installed since the registry was backed up will need to be reinstalled. This is because the registry will no longer know about them. Unless you deleted the AVG installation program, it will still be where you left it and will not require redownloading. Dr Watson is part of windows. It is used to diagnose errors while windows is running. Basically it logs faults. This can be useful in diagnosing system crashes. The startup disk is just a floppy disk with the essential startup files on it. To use it you simply pop the floppy in the drive before you turn the computer on. You may have to check the startup sequence in bios to ensure that the computer looks at the floppy drive before the hard drive.

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Ooh ooh -- maybe I should use an online scanner like Trendmicro's Housecall to remove it this time, and skip the whole boot scan/DOS removal routine? Sorry to be so all over the place, I know this isn't the forum for virus-related stuff but if you do happen to have an opinion on this aspect of it, all is welcome! Now back to giving it to me straight about what scanreg /restore can do... ;)

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Yet another overlap?

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Ok, we crossed again but I didn't notice til now this time! 1] Ok, when You say "all programs that have been installed since the registry was backed up will need to be reinstalled," do you mean since the recent registry restore points, that windows automatically makes? So I'd just be going a few days back? Because if instead, by registry backup you mean something a human would have done, I know this machine has never been backed up. 2] Does the biggest risk I'm taking with scanreg /restore come in at the part about the reference somehow? If so what can happen? Must be considerable, else this would have been a first-line suggestion... Will a program like Regseeker get rid of the virus reference error that may result? 3] Yeah, boot disk, "simply pop it in..." HA! Remember how all this started (or may have)! I thought it would have intuitive prompts but it didn't. I had no clue at all where to go or what to do from wherever the heck it was that disk took me.

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...and um, like, scanreg and OS overlay compared...? If'n you don't mind? ;)

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Sorry for the delay, Don't fret about it, the only problems that can be caused by running Scanre /restore are not difficult to fix. I think I answered most if not all your questions in reply 38. An over the top install has similar drawbacks and it takes longer.

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While you're sleeping may I get on my soap box (always best when nobody is listening LOL). You mentioned RegSeeker. That program worries me, it's far too clever. I have proven conclusively that it removed a valid entry in Add-Remove and wrecked a program (both repeatable). It also says many existing and valid file extensions are invalid or unused. The latest version is even more "thorough(?)" than the one I have. Missing entries can take a lot of effort and research to restore. To my mind RegSeeker is only suitable for those who have a good idea what the entries are about that it is suggesting be removed. Sure you can backup entries but unless you check the whole system you will not immediately know what a registry cleaner has just done. If you spot something later you might not know which backup to restore. Many registry cleaners remove entries because they can't find the file. Fine but what I've found is that if a file name has a "switch" (qualifier) after it in the registry, such as setup.exe /d then it will find the file "setup.exe" but obviously not "setup.exe /d". It then removes the valid entry because it thinks there is no associated file - yuk. The safest registry cleaner is an oldie called "regcleaner" but that only deals with entries left behind after programs have been uninstalled. Scanreg /fix is harmless too but, I'm not certain if it removes viral entries - maybe. All others need to be used with caution but EasyCleaner has not yet let me down (I check fairly closely). Phew. DerekW

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Derek, hi! Yes I have used EasyCleaner too. So if I need something of that nature, I will stick with that one. But please, you are *welcome* to be on that box! Where do you weigh in on whether it is time for scanreg /restore? You had mentioned how jumbly and murky that could be since we don't know what I did, but maybe I have no choice now..? A few other things for now (of course): 1] through poking around online, I saw instructions for doing a more limited scanreg replacement, where you extract only certain files or a directory or something: http://www.techweb.com/winmag/fixes/2000/1211.htm Might that be a better option? 2] I also saw instructions somewhere that made it sound like scanreg needs to be done with the win98 CD in; as well as ones that say have a start disk in; and ones that don't mention having anything in. If I'm gonna do this, please map it out as if I'm 6 years old... You'd be amazed the places in which I can go wrong! 3] Will I be able to see through using scanreg /restore what my options are for backup dates, without actually having changed anything yet? I'm always comforted by knowing I can escape if I want to for some reason. ;) 4] If scanreg doesn't fix the issue, am I likely to end up in the same boat as now; or might it be worse, like not even forcing me into safe mode after that or something? 5] other things I tried, just so you know: look for and delete or change the BootSafe=1 line (I had two msdos.sys files, a 1999 date and just days ago... But neither contained that line exactly as written above...can tell u what they did say, if helpful); delete the Wnbootng.sts file (was not there at all). http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q306615&ID=KB;EN-US;q306615 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q143283&ID=KB;EN-US;q143283

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Hey, my post with my bootlog.txt file was removed!! Waahh! I had said other things in it too, that I don't remember now but may have helped someone reading to figure something out! Couldn't a little editing have been done, so Rimfire's reply didn't cease to make sense? I think I saw that hijack this logs shouldn't be posted here but thought this was diff... (Hmmm, should I apologize for my email notification remarks or something? Um... Have I mentioned lately that I do love this place, and recommend it whenever I can? ;) Well shoot... To summarize in case it helps anyone, Rimfire's post #31 was in reference to my removed post (mentioned that my fonts fail to load, and that the ending lines seem to indicate that something unknown is loading where the device drivers should be).

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Good, they removed it! I was going to ask the mods to do that after Derek had a chance to have a look. The solution in techweb is basically the same thing as scanreg /restore except he did it manually. I won't call him a showoff. Both the Microsoft links were related to a computer which always boots to safe mode. Not can only boot to safe mode. Your bootlog.txt file showed that windows failed at the time it should have been loading device drivers. It failed while trying to load a device called 'unknown'. The registry is obviously corrupt, so why don't we replace it?

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Hi The limited use of scanreg you mentioned is just someone's pet way of doing things. For example, I never use scanreg /restore but prefer to use my own backups which I save and restore using batch and reg files (that way I know they were good registries and also what the installed state was at the time). We all have our own pet ideas. I suggest you don't complicate the issue and just stick to using scanreg /restore as MS provided (more later). If your msdos.sys files (2?) don't contain Bootsafe=1 then I'd not worry about that either. I don't think either of the issues in those MS links are yours and (as often with computers) I cannot be entirely sure what popped the cork in your instance. No idea why webmaster killed your log - possibly there is something in the rules somewhere (or maybe it was misconstrued as a HijackThis log - touchy about those and I do understand why). Methinks that having got to post 46 with little sign of any progress you might as well go for the bigger guns. Scanreg /restore is only a small big gun (LOL) and you do indeed get dates to select from and can back out at any time. The "trick" is to select a registry that was there before the system backfired, if you can still remember when. I think we should risk any virus registry entries that might be present. With luck the viral files are gone so some sort of registry clean up will sort things out. Just type scanreg /restore from one of the command prompts and follow what it says. If anything oddball happens back out and post back. If this doesn't help then let's reload Windows over the top and let Bill Gates try to fix it. Neither of these ideas are "shock horror", it's just that there is some sense trying to put humpty together without them if possible. I think we've about exhausted that approach. My current feeling is lets try and get this thing going again, whatever the method. DerekW

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Ooops, overlapped again, but at least Rimfire and I are thinking alike and both homed in on registry restore (let's hope we are not both wrong LOL). Go for it gal! DerekW

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Morning Derek, maybe there should be a rule about OPs posting links. I had to spend a while reading before I could reply too! Did you get to see the log? It was quite a bit longer than a hijackthis log.

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Yeah, massive. While we are waiting, how do you feel about Windows Overlay if scanreg /restore doesn't work out? I would probably first restore the latest registry back if poss. Hopefully it is the least likely to have virus entries. DerekW

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I'm beginning to think that a clean install might be faster. By the tme an overlay would be completed, we'll probably be at post #300! I gather from reply 6 that there may not be an OS CD available.

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All depends on what important data is one there and whether all the drivers are to hand. Could be quite a few problems. My feeling is try the overlay, if that works then fine (doesn't take long). If not then go for the clean install. Downside is it could waste about an hour - great if it works tho. I've been lucky (so far). DerekW

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Reply #36 indicated that there was no data to lose. It also reaffirms that there is an absence of installation media. If that is the case, both overlay and reinstall are not options. Lets hope scanreg works. Curiously, that post alluded to a change of ownership!

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Hi! Sorry if I've tied things up too long. We'll be on the move now, really. One thing if you don't mind, that is nagging at me -- sounds like I am not supposed to have two msdos.sys files, but I do. One is located in c:\ and is dated 6/30/05, the day This began I believe. The other is in c:\windows, dated from 1999. From 'Find' the icon around the 6/30 one is kinda dotted (means it wants to be hidden maybe?), and um... don't ask me how I know this but that one doesn't want to be renamed... (ok ok, I copied them to a floppy and was going to try making the system start with each alone, from each location if necessary). Stop laughing, it could be considered intuitive (to someone who doesn't know what all those things actually DO!), since I'm not supposed to have two. Maybe the MS Updates created a new one and moved the other one? Ok that's it, after this YES I'll scanreg if the above would make no sense to try. I am highly in favor of the overlay instead of clean install too. :)

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Got a bit lost Rimfire (I'm good at that LOL). Maybe you meant #6. This seems to imply there is data worth keeping but no probably no CD. Either way we seem snookered apart from scanreg /restore. Better get spoc to confirm all this. DerekW

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....obviously that was an overlap and bet there'll be another one awaiting me after this too! So overlay would call for me to have the software installation media on hand too huh. Drat, didn't know that. Curious about change of ownership reference...? Didn't go back to read my post you referred to but yes, someone gave me the machine...

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My 56 overlapped with your 55 spoc (chatting to Rimfire). There is normally only one msdos.sys (hidden therefore dotted as you put it). Never heard of one in c:\windows and it will probably be ignored. Try scanreg /restore anyway. Have you a CD and is the data on the machine important? DerekW

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...overlap! ;) Answer is, there is software for which no CDs exist, that if I had a choice I'd like to keep. But no, no data I care about losing, as far as files of my own I've created yet or anything.

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Err...by CD I mean a proper W98SE CD, or is it a restore CD? DerekW

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More overlap. Get your drift, so just need to know about any Windows system CD. DerekW

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Yes I think the msdos.sys file in the windows folder is now being ignored, since it didn't mind being renamed. But since the one the system is now using is from That Day, and it must have been using the other one before... Would it make any sense to try replacing the new one with the old one, that apparently worked since 1999? The files say different things inside...

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Yup, overlap. I have a win98 CD that came with a different system. It is for a full version, not an upgrade disk or anything, so if there are only two kinds, sounds like it is what I'd need. Note, I can get a win 2000 upgrade CD from someone next week, if that would save everything and be the best way?

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FYI, CD says "Windows 98, for installation with a new PC only." Does not say SE....

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone I have been following this thread with great interest, and didn't meant to barge in but I would like to point out a couple of things just to refresh the memory. :-) Response #1: by Spoc "...I tried that while using a win98 CD..." Response #6: by Spoc "...I only care about his software..." "...in order not to lose any of my friend's software..." If Spoc can provide us the make and model of the Toshiba, assuming we are dealing with the Toshiba as mentioned at the top a link to the drivers shouldn't be a real issue, I hope. Speaking of drivers, I would like to suggest to get rid of the "...yellow questions marks next to "Other Devices" and its contents, two PCI Universal Serial Bus entries. Then under USB Controllers, there are red Xs next to two entries for "Unknown Device..." (response #12 by Spoc) by deleting them. After deletion turn of the laptop, power-on and launch Windows if possible in Normal mode. As for the fonts issue, it might help to move the complete Fonts folder to another location, reboot and move the folder back in to the Windows folder and reboot again. Derek, I have taken notice of your note and corrected the mistake I made, thanks. :-) (http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/forum/165982.html) Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Your #63 I'd want to think about first para - maybe Rimfire has some ideas. With 64M RAM I think you might be best sticking with W98SE (again, happy to be contradicted). In any case with an Upgrade that can only come after we get W98SE sorted. There might be something useful about comparing those msdos.sys files but it strikes me that the hidden one in the C root is likely to be the correct one. To swap them is possible in DOS but a tad messy because you will have to change the attribs (read only, hidden, system). On balance I think it would be quicker/better to try scanreg /restore first. We can always go back to the current registry if necessary and press on from there. DerekW

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Surely I didn't spend that long in the shower! Can we just try the scanreg! It is reversible. The portion of the boot process in which it fails is well after the ccomputer has finished with msdos.sys. The calls are coming from the registry. Sorry, I was under the impression from the beginning that you were trying to fix this computer for a friend. I stand corrected. You can use any CD to do the overlay. Before you do you will need to find the product key for the copy that is installed. We want to keep this legal. If I disappear for a long period, it's because it's Monday morning here. I'm on call.

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More overlap. spoc If it doesn't say "second edition" somewhere we could be heading for a muddle using that CD on W98SE. It usually says in words. I think we should give The Count's ideas a shot. If you have any problem doing so shout back. Nice to have some fresh ideas. I did wonder about deleting the CP dud entries and rebooting - trust you can still get to Safe Mode? DerekW

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OK, with us all overlapping we need to decide which way to go. Nothing lost doing scanreg /restore first so do that. If it doesn't help then restore the current registry back again and follow The Count's suggestions. DerekW

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By all means Count, there are plenty of horses to spare on this merry-go-round. You might tell Spoc how to extract the product key.

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Yup, looked carefully but the CD definitely doesn't say Second Edition or SE anywhere. So maybe it won't help, but I do have the COA (assume that's same as product key). Ok, off to try Count's suggestions! Welcome, Count. :) Sorry I'm taking the long way on this, but I am learning and enjoying it too!

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OOOOps overlap!!! Ok scanreg first then I take it. I'll count to... something not too too high, then GO FOR IT! ;)

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Whichever way first no problem. Just let us know what you've tried and how you get on. Can't get product keys off CD but (assuming spoc has this) then overlay is probably precluded due to it being W98 rather than W98SE. It still leaves the clean install option open if we can't fix problems between us. DerekW

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone Tried to enter this thread as response #55 and got (over)lapped as well. ;-) If I may amplify on the reason I quoted the response #1 and response #6, it was because of response #53 and #54. Response #66 by Derek "...There might be something useful about comparing those msdos.sys files..." Great minds think alike, I am in favor of comparing the the files too. Response #67 by Rimfire "...Before you do you will need to find the product key for the copy that is installed..." This is covered in the link, your note, in response #65. :-) For Derek and me it is Monday morning (real early) as well. :-) As for myself, I should be turning in for the night or what is left of it, but don't feel like doing such right now so I'll be around a little longer. Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Gotta go, I'll check back when I can.

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Beats the best soap opera LOL. I shall hang on a while, it only 12.45 in UK. I was kinda biassed to getting scanreg /restore off our chests, so we can put that idea to bed if it doesn't help. The main thing is to make some sort of move(s) if at all possible, just to eliminate possibilities. You've made some good points, as always. DerekW

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YES YES hang around everyone ;)! I just tried scanreg and chose 6/29/05 (other choices were between December and March, including prior to virus). No go, wrote down whole message it gave me but will summarize a bit: Can't find a device file that may be needed to run windows or a windows app. The windows registry or system.ini file refers to this device but it no longer exists. If u deleted this file on purpose, try uninstalling associated app using its uninstall or setup prog. (NOTE: since I got the machine on 6/29, to my knowledge the only file I deleted was do.exe, from AVG's virus vault, after the safe mode scan.... I could be wrong tho) If u still want to use this app reinstall it or replace the missing file. c:\windows\system\vshinit.vxd Press a key to continue.,.. So..? Should I choose an earlier one or try Count's suggestions? Notes: in my device manager, it had said that the status of the "unknown" devices "is not available in safe mode." So maybe they never show from there, period. But says they are MS devices. I was going to change the msdos.sys file attributes while in safe mode, and swap them from Explorer... would that avoid using tricky DOS commands to do it?

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vshinit.vxd is a McAfee virus scan file. Seems like it is the residue from and uninstall (possibly uninstalled without turning AV off first). This can be dealt with. It shouldn't have affected scanreg /restore Did you try Continuing regardless? Yep you can do the attribs thing in Safe Mode (forgot you could get there for a mo). If you go that way save the files first. In case you need retreive one in DOS copy them each into seperate folders straight off C. I'd suggest: msdoscr (ie C Root) and msdoscw (ie C:\Windows) It's just me, I always like a nice easy way back in case something backfires and you can't get to Safe Mode. Keeping the names at or below 8 characters helps. We ought to peer inside them and see what the differences are. They will open in NotePad. DerekW

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Btw about product key... I read the link above about finding it... my scenario is that the 98 CD is from a PC that no longer exists... and the laptop at hand may have a key I could extract but it is SE and for whatever other reasons, I gather that may not work... I have a COA (cert of auth) printed on the booklet from the win98 CD, but maybe it's not the same thing or useful here. Also! While the CD does not say SE, the booklet does... As I recall, the booklet may have been given to me somewhere down the line for general reference only, and is not the one that came with the CD. Just FYI.

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On those Device Manager errors you simply delete the entries. You will have to delete any sub-entry first. They will vanish and Windows should try to reload them on next boot. Err...I would just do one thing at a time. If you do more than one thing you won't know what caused what. DerekW

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... try to coninue with scanreg /restore first if it will let you. If it does so but it doesn't help then restore it back before trying any other ideas. DerekW

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone 02:31 hours over here in The Netherlands. :-) The vshinit.vxd error should be easy to solve, from within Safe-mode follow follow the directions provided by Mesich in response #1. vshinit.vxd boot error (http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/forum/113544.html) The DOS commands aren't really tricky, one typo in the command and you will be presented a Bad command or filename error. :-) What I am trying to say is that you will have to type exactly (including spaces) what is instructed and hit the [Enter]key after the very last letter of the command line. For example: c:\windows\command\attrib -r -s -h c:\msdos.sys[Enter]key Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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My W98SE CD says Microsoft Windows98 at the bottom. On the right hand side it says, For distribtion with anew PC only --blah blah-- then, underneath that lot, SECOND EDITION. DerekW

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Ok so like... I typed up that failure message and left it on my screen so i could run it by you... so the answer is no, hadn't pressed any key to continue... But seeing as how that was inevitable I just did and... IT BOOTED TO WINDOWS!!!!!!! WOW, I'm so happy!!!! And I love you guys!!!! Please don't think about how much sooner this could have been done, it's been fun, hasn't it? :o) AVG won't open, something must have been corrupted there, so I will try uninstalling it and re-using the install file that should still be there. Will post back soon if anything doesn't seem to work, or if the mcafee thing identified seems to cause boot problems or shows itself in some way... Or the virus reference causes problems or whatnot... (can I check for probs now somehow? Should probably try restarting again too huh.) Should I download and use EasyCleaner now/soon?

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The Count Thx. Good idea to get shot of that vshinit thingy from registry. I was reminded that spoc can still get into Safe Mode so hopefully we won't need to use the DOS attrib command. Worth having on here for spoc's reference tho - might be needed somewhere. DerekW

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Overlap! Ok Count will try your link to delete the shinit whatever! And Derek, nope, my CD really really really does not say SE anywhere. But joyously, matters not now... Knowing me tho I better be prepared for anything in the future! :)

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I wouldn't rush to invoke registry cleaners just yet. Give it a whirl and make sure there are no more funnies around first as it's been a bit of a long haul. If you still get that vshinit.vxd report on boot then follow the link in #82. Nice little visit to the registry for you! Probably worth renaming that weird c:\windows\msdos.sys file to msdos.old If there are no repercussions (shouldn't think so) then delete it later. Get all your anti-malware and AV stuff on board and updated. Ad-Aware is a must for starters. Then there is AVG or Avast. I can't hang around much longer but you could nip back through this post and double check that we've not left anything changed during this excercise that should now be changed back. Anyhow, progress has been made (subject to reboot), so glad to hear it. You can have the last laugh as you were the first to mention scanreg /restore ........ DerekW

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Err...Are you still getting vshinit error? If the registry restore got shot of it then you won't need worry. Might be worth checking eBay for a nice cheap W98SE CD (just in case). DerekW

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Yes, nighty night, you deserve some sleep! If anything acts up I may post it here, if you can't resist swinging by to check again over the next couple days! ;-) Fun fact, I was told I may have created the second msdos.sys file when I did the sys C: thing or whatever that was, way back in the beginning. Sweet dreams!

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone Congratulations to all!!! Job well done. :-) Derek's response #87 says it all. For now it looks like a happy ending on this episode of the soap. :-)) Off to bed for a 4 hour nap before I have to get up and out to leave to the office. I'll try to check back some time tomorrow. Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Yeah, sure thing, only 10 more for the 100 LOL. I'd be a tad amazed if there is not some little quirk that needs ironing out later but its all a lot better when you can get into Windows. God bless Bill Gates. Nite DerekW

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Breezed (easily) into 'first place' on the "Learning Center" list Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid. -John Wayne

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Drat, I missed all the excitement. I wouldn't hurt to get that license key in any case. Write it down and store it in a safe place. You may need it one day. There are still a few bugs to iron out. This is why we didn't recommend scanreg in the first instance.

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Good morning all (or good/whatever time of day it is where y'all are!). Yes, things are odd in some ways and I haven't even scratched the surface of trying out all programs and functions yet, so I'm sure there will be more surprises lying in wait for me! Am currently just so glad that I'm in windows, with another chance apparently! And hey, we're famous now, you're welcome LOL! ;-) Seemed nonsensical to me, the programs and settings I had added that ended up still being or not being present and/or installed after scanreg. Not the order I did them in. And, before I got it 6/29 it hadn't been turned on since March, so guess it must back up at a random time of day, because I would have thought nothing I added would have been there. But not complaining about that, glad anything I had put on it that one day was still there. Some of the things I noticed so far include: Yes, still get vshinit error, will have to read and follow the suggested thread (direct registry work, eek! ;). I noticed there are Mcafee components in add/remove that will not allow themselves to be removed, and have heard they plan it that way. No relation twixt the two probably tho. I had put AOL on that day (ok ok so now you have lost ALL respect for me lol), and when I clicked it it seemed to be at point where it had just been installed and needed to restart. Clicked restart but instead it ran through parts of some component and driver installations that flashed on status bars all over my screen instead running through a smooth install program. When it finally did restart, it went to a gray then black screen and shut off... Thought I was sunk. But it switched back on ok. But then I got a message that some display adaptor or something was missing and was taken only to a tab out of the control panel, where I selected the one other setting available, then it started. Like I said I have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet, since I haven't tested much out, am trying to get everything merely secure first. Will try to muddle through whatever comes as best I can without bothering anyone, but would love it if you'll watch for any new threads I may start over the next week or two! Unless something cripples me, I may try to save that possible thread until I have seen all the little mysteries... or maybe that would get too hairy to do all at once... I confess my technically simplistic logic is urging me to run something like EasyCleaner, but I will resist... Surely I should do that at some point tho...so... when? But here is my ultra mega pressing question for now: I would like to save at least one of the old backups I saw while doing scanreg, instead of ending up with only my own new dates as soon as I reboot on several more days. (So even now I'm avoiding anything that requires restart!! Can't go on that way, too much to do.) I think I saw someone say that can be done, that he burned some good registry backups to CD? I have not taught myself to burn CDs yet and will (have capability on both laptop and a desktop), but to get this done ASAP, can I copy an old registry to an 80 GB external USB hard drive I have? If so, um... how? A link to instructions would be great if easier! Happy holidays, where applicable! ;o)

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There may be some info on McAfee's website about how to clear their residue left behind. Usually it's registry work. Well, perhaps it would be OK to run EasyCleaner once you've got rid of that vshinit thingy. Things sound fairly reasonable and it might get shot of some more McAfee stuff if all else fails. You will get a "stack" of stuff showing first time round but I've never had a problem just letting EasyCleaner remove the lot. I know little about AOL so can't comment (most folk don't LOL). MS back up the registry on every new day that you boot up (max 5). I think it best not to worry about older registries. If you were to invoke them they would be so out of step with your current situation that they would probably make matters worse. It's OK now, so it's the current registries onwards that you might need. On the basis of the above I tend to go along with MS that 5 backups is plenty but it is possible to increase that number by a simple file fiddle if you feel that way inclined. I have my own methods as previously hinted at. At some later time you might be interested to know more (just PM me), but you've enough on your plate for now. DerekW

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Happy Independance day to all our American readers. Time zones do become confusing on these international sites. I'm located in eastern Australia. Derek is in England. jboy completes the full round the world trip in Canada. The count as you already know, lives in a castle in Transylvania, only kidding, he's from Holland. There's no harm in using automated cleaners. The authors are experts if registry maintenance. While sometimes things can go wrong, you can do a lot more damage by hand editing the registry. By now you should have a registry backup for today. Check that you haven't disabled scanreg in msconfig. If you left the computer on overnight, reboot. That way, if the automated program does cause a problem, you can always scanreg /restore back to this morning. Another automated program you might like to try is Crap Cleaner, this should spring clean the hard drive.

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Hi everyone! Ok you can all let your breath out now, I got rid of that vshinit shinit (har har) successfully and have lived to tell the tale! I figured it might be especially interesting since the former owner could swear he never had McAfee on this machine...! But all went as it should. Oh, myself, I represent the good old midwest of the USA (well ok so hopefully I don't represent its technological skills!). So cool to be able to connect with and get help from so many corners of the globe. Anyone familiar with a program called Simple Backup (uses 'smartdrv' or something)? Saw it in add/remove and was wondering if it must be in use instead of MS's backup utility, or if it's unnecessary or presents any conflicts. But no biggie, will just be seeing what I can get rid of to free up space (after researching it all of course!).

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It seems that simple backup is limited in the fact that it can only backup to CDs. MSbackup cannot use CDs. Seems to me to be a good reason to have both.

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Just saying hello really. Glorious 20-20 hindsight says it's a pity we didn't go for scanreg /restore earlier but you probably learned a lot from all this. I'd say you've done darned well, and that you obviously knew your way around quite well before you started. I'll leave you to post #100 LOL. DerekW

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone A Happy 4th of July! So the vshinit.vxd error is shot, well done! It wasn't as scary as thought, wasn't it? Now, don't forget to reboot tomorrow to generate a new backup of the registry without the vshinit.vxd error. :-) Are the colors on the laptop (Toshiba? Family and Model?) screen showing properly after you have chosen the one other setting available? Rest assured you are not bothering anyone over here. :-) Therefor, while you muddle through whatever comes up and feel uncertain over the situation, the Alert ME or Private Message option are there to be used and I am sure one of us if not all will come to the aid. I wouldn't advise to save all little mysteries for one thread. It is easier for one and all to deal with them one at the time. Not exactly sure, but... I think that copying the rb00*.cab files located in the C:\Windows\Sysbckup folder to another location (this can be the same hard drive, CD-ROM/CD-RW or your external USB hard drive*) should suffice to safe your good scanreg backups. The * in the filename rb00*.cab represents the numbers 0 through 4, which make the five different backups. *Only useful if you can access your external USB hard drive from DOS (5 Command-prompt only option from the Startup menu) If only having five backups troubles you, maybe this will give your mind some peace: Backup and Restore the Registry. Obviously the backups will be placed in the folder mentioned earlier, C:\Windows\Sysbckup. (http://www.mesich.com/backupreg.html) As for the automated cleaners, no comments on my part for the simple reason that I don't have to much experience with them. I prefer to poke around manually, small steps a time, in the registry. As for McAfee, it must have been installed (maybe a trial version) at some point in the past by your friend or someone who serviced the laptop for him. McAfee doesn't get there on it's own. So cool to be able to team up with people from all over the globe and help out others in other corners of the planet. :-)) Simple Backup... the name sounds familiar but other than that, no I don't have any recollection of it, sorry. If it is necessary or presents conflicts, I doubt that. Calling it the night at 02:17 hours, The Count... out Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Nice to hear from you guys again! And I have never looked into Alert Me or PM here, you may be in trouble now LOL! Thanks Rimfire, yes I'll keep that other backup program too I guess. Count, my display colors seem to be fine now, actually I checked later and the setting had gone back to the other one... Think I re-enabled something. (I do have my system settings locked down by spybot now FYI.) Oh and the red and yellow icons next to the USB entries in device manager have gone away. If I backed up those old registries to the external hd I had figured I could burn them to CD. That was just a silly security blanket, but maybe wouldn't end up being so secure to actually use them, as Derek said. Well the fixup is coming along swimmingly again and I'm loving it... Not only a totally unsecured and un-optimized machine but nothing of any kind had ever been updated (and hey I'm making it prettier too)! Derek, if at any point I sounded like I knew what I was talking about somewhat, I had probably just Googled something! And you know what they say, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!" I have learned a lot (which is a relative term!!) from incidents and discussions just like this one... But wow, are there ever holes in my knowledge, and I can be pretty impulsive! Thankful for a place like this to check first. You're right, I did learn a lot here, and picked up ideas for other things to try and check whenever my friends or myself have problems/mysteries. (I ended up being the only one of us who is drawn to this stuff... and boy am I ever! They think I've gone off the deep end!) Also Derek, wanted to ask you -- do you trust EasyCleaner's duplicate file removal utility? In the past I've been sooo tempted to use it because it found sooo many dups on another machine... But a techie agreed with me once that it could be pretty risky (and most of the files had at least slightly different names)?

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OMIGAWD!!!! *Here's* one for the Learning Center (too bad no one will have made it to the end LOL!): We get to know what caused all this!!!!! The old free Tiny personal firewall is just not compatible with this machine's configuration!!!!! As mentioned, before my safe mode problem began, I had installed a couple or few things without restarting. (Had thought maybe that was the problem in itself.) It seemed Tiny had been one of them but I thought nothing of it. Well this time I am being careful to restart where recommended. I just reinstalled Tiny and restarted, and guess what... straight to DOS startup menu and safe mode, just like before!!! Was almost going to do scanreg straight off (and maybe never tell you guys lol); stop trying to fix it up much; and resign myself to it never being trustworthy... but it occurred to me to at least try removing Tiny with add/remove progs. And... you guessed it, I booted to windows!! I also had Kerio's old version 2.15 (think that's it) laying around, which I guess is basically the same program, but I tried again with that since I really wanted something small. And! Same thing! Had to remove it through add/remove, then could boot! So we really DID learn something -- another thing to recommend for people in this situation is to remove anything they can that they may have just installed! WOW I can't believe I stumbled across the actual cause!! I do have more faith in this machine now, seeing as it was just some fluke incompatibility. (Right?) So... shall it be zonealarm or sygate free... hmmm... almost afraid to try putting any fw on now! Whew!!

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jboy announced that we had made #1 in reply 92. I've never heard of a firewall causing this problem. It may be the work of a nasty which does not wnat a firewall installed. Update AVG along with Spybot and AdAware then rescan the computer. You might also like to try one of the free online scans to be sure. AVG is good, but it isn't great. Don't try to install any other firewall today, wait until tomorrow. If there is some incompatibility, it would be better to have two registry backups to choose from.

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Ok, did as Rimfire suggested. Here's an update as I sit through an online scan. Fully updated spybot found nothing. Adaware had put out new definitions since my incident began, and with that it found 4 more components of winpup, which I gather IS or is related to revop.a (one malware, one virus). Updated AVG found nothing. (Didn't think to run these from safe mode... should I have?) Used Trendmicro's new online spyware scan, and it found 6 cookies and one thing classified as adware (it identified all by name but didn't say which was the adware and no definitions were on their site. I may Google them). The scan then removed those items. As far as Trendmicro's Housecall virus scan, to keep this as short as possible, I'll just say that they must have changed something about it over the last few months or so, because I can no longer run it (or even have it open correctly) on a win95 and now win98SE machine. (Can run it on XP.) I used to use it on old machines all the time. Anyway, didn't know which virus scanner was next best (of those that don't just check individual files). So am running Panda this minute. Seemed like Bitdefender is also recommended? Was going to also run Pestpatrol's Pestscan scanner for more spyware checking, but actually I have begun to wonder if they generate "false positives" to make you buy their program. Don't know if Trend's spy scan was any good since it's beta (but Panda says it will scan for spyware too). And speaking of that!! I wonder if Trend's scan messed up the new installation of spywareguard I put on last night! It was up and running fine as of this morning, and is still checked in msconfig, but the tray icon disappeared and it will no longer open at all. (The update program will open however.) Haven't rebooted yet to see if it'll start then but I figure it should never be TOTALLY unresponsive when clicked... I figure ONE of the scans I did must have messed it up, unless something really sneaky is toying with me. My other spy progs including spywareblaster are fine. The only other thing I did before SG gave out was my first defrag on this machine, with the WinME defragger. Ok, so right now the Panda scan is running but for anyone who stops by, let's assume it comes up clear (I would post again immediately if not of course) besides maybe a few more pretty typical cookies or something. What say you about trying again to put on a firewall? I really would like to be able to use old Tiny or Kerio free, but am afraid to keep trying that. Kinda afraid to try any of them now! But I've been out here unprotected long enough already... Although I am only on dialup at least. (Oh and Derek, it's no longer the pressing issue but would still like to hear how you feel about EC's dups removal utility... :)

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Hi Spoc, It sounds like things are pretty clean. Corrupted files are a little harder to find when there is no error message. You might like to try 'SFC' from the run menu. Don't let it change anything before checking with Derek (he's kinda the local expert on that). There are plenty of dubious cleaning programs out there. Spyware Warrier lists many of them.

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Hi there, 12am here, so late on tonight (visitors). Picking up the odd bits, no I would lay right off the duplicate files feature of EasyCleaner. Very often programs decide to use their own file in their own pet location. I'm right with your techie on this, sure as eggs you will stop some program working (or even the whole machine). The Unecessary files feature is slightly better but it certainly wants to remove an essential file on an old DOS game on my other W95 machine. Safest to stick to just the Clean Registry feature. Very surprised to hear that Kerio 2.1.5 doesn't like your machine. It is running fine on mine, right now, and if you can tolerate its rather DIY approach then I reckon it's the greatest. Nothing gets through it (even the good stuff if you are not careful LOL). Maybe it's some bad reaction to some other software on your machine, or possible the work of some nasty or other. I would have thought Tiny was much the same. Sygate is definitely worth a thought. Not so techie as Kerio/Tiny but bigger. Not as massive as Zone Alarm though. I suppose I should add that I gave up on Sygate. Every version I've tried causes GPF errors on my machine (or did, its been a long time since I tried). However I think its just a quirk of my software mix because other folk use it just fine. As for sfc it's not a big bad wolf, just happens to get it wrong in certain instances and you must remember that bringing back old files from Windows CD has to be done with care because they may have been updated since 1999. Here's my ageing run down on it, see my collation and WhitPhil's additions: SFC CAN GET IT WRONG Better add that not all W98FE & W98SE files are identical so be guarded if you haven't got the correct CD version. As for cookies, I rather feel they are the least of our worries these days, maybe because there are far worse things out there. A2FREE (trojan finder/fixer) reports my computing.net login cookie as a "tracking cookie". Maybe, maybe not, but I'm certainly not dumping it. This kinda sums up the cookie issue. They are supposed to help you but some help others rather more. Some are nosey and unwanted, others can be darned useful. I think I've covered what you asked but shout back if I missed something. DerekW

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What, so no one is fascinated by this development? I thought it was more interesting than the original generic failure to load issue for sure. Great opportunity to develop exotic tech problem-solving skills, no? ;-) Hmmm, not sure what I'll do about a firewall then. I have had bad luck trying to run sygate on two machines before as well. I saw somewhere that those Tiny and Kerio programs really are the same, with different interfaces/options or something. I have updated and changed some more things so maybe I'll try one of them one more time, although I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Oh, my big report on the scanners was in response to Rimfire's suggestion to probe for "nasties" (and I think we see that's out as cause now, at least from anything currently active), in case that was related to my fw/boot problem; not to express concern about cookies! No indeed, they are not on my worry list now. This time around, only meant to ask for any ideas about the incompatibility (and the EC question). I haven't looked into what sfc does yet, but so far doesn't sound too much like something I'd be comfortable with... If Tiny/Kerio messes up on one more shot, I might skip a fw and hope being on dialup with lots of blockers installed will help enough. Maybe switch to firefox... If I have the resources. Or maybe I'll end up starting a new thread just in case this incompatibility or installation/restart issue rings a bell with anyone out there. Good night to you over there! :o)

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Yep, somone might know about that Tiny hangup I guess. SFC is straightforward. You type sfc in the Run box and it checks through your system files and reports its findings. It also has an "extract one file" feature but this is where you just need to check against my link before you act. I mentioned the Windows CD because that is where folks usually extract from. It is not actually limited to that. You can equally well get it to extract files from the cabs in a download of IE for example, knowing that this will suit IE whearas the IE files from the Windows CD will be far too outdated. No big deal, just need (as always) to take care. DerekW

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone You rung... ;-) Sorry for not getting back sooner, stumbled across a old thread of yours while going through the stats for our site the day before yesterday. Yesterday one of my own systems has been keeping me busy. (http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/forum/161550.html) Derek and Rimfire have it all covered, so there isn't much for me to add at this point. I realize that you are eager for ideas on the incompatibility of Tiny/Kerio with your laptop, I cannot imagine it has something to do with the hardware (laptop). Convince your self or let your self be convinced that your laptop is free of any nasty's by running HijackThis and post the log for review at the Spyware Warrior Forums, ASAP* member, our host isn't to keen on those log's over here. When the HijackThis log turns out to contain no malware, or after any cleaning up per given instructions, and Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D, your up-to-date AVG and the online scanners (Panda, McAfee) say your clean, I think you can be pretty much convinced that the laptop is cleared and free from whatever nasty's there were on it initially. Than generate a new backup of the registry. When you have a new backup of the registry you could run EasyCleaner once again in the same way as you have done before, thus only the registry part of the program. Generate another backup of the registry, reboot and give Tiny or Kerio another go. Hopefully after the re-install and reboot Windows will load properly and the firewall can start doeing it's job. * Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals I cannot help to keep wondering about the Family and model of the laptop... :-) Over and out for this evening/night/morning... Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Oh my, sorry Count, I thought everyone had moved on. Hadn't checked back til now when I posted something new (and simple this time, I think!). And since that old thread of mine can't help here, I assume you're making some other point... ;-) Yeah, I've had a few crummy machines to deal with (actually just got a brand new one too, but I guess I'm drawn to the bad boy instead!). And this is my second similar Toshiba. I've learned a lot since any of my old posts, in fact I can live without being reminded of them, LOL! Anyway, I didn't think I was still plagued by any nasties, had just been following suggestions and logical steps with all the scans I did. So yes, I am confident enough that I am clean, and I have run EasyCleaner (reg clean only) plenty of times, and reinstalled both of those fws as many times as I'm willing to risk that I will always recover easily. But nope. There has got to be some kind of incompatibility somewhere. Now I have to make sure whatever fw I try next isn't one that's known to be a bear to cleanly uninstall; to be cautious I'd want one that would come back out easily from safe mode, in case it caused the same boot issue. But just wrapping up here, not asking anything. Sorry, this subject was not as "fulfilling" as the original one, but it wasn't a subject change. Rather, since it turned out to BE the original issue, it was highly relevant and couldn't be avoided. Would be a very appropriate issue to post about in its own thread. Oh, the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite 1735. And I guess everything's harder when you know nothing about the history of a used machine. Ok, thanks again for everyone's help. Booting was what I was after and booting was what I got!

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Just to prove that we keep watching these old posts LOL. This post will be for "viewing only" sometime after Aug 2nd anyway. You got over half way to the record tho (most I ever saw was 200 posts). Glad to hear things are better. DerekW

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Hi Spoc, Derek, Rimfire, jboy, hi everyone Proving Derek isn't the only one keeping an eye on to old posts. .-) Thank you for gratifying my curiosity. Now, before this post becomes "viewing only", I would like to add the following link as it maybe useful for you somewhere in time. Toshiba Satelite 1735 drivers etc. Best Regards and Wishes, The Count, Co-webmaster of mesich.com

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Hey guys! Gosh darn it all, missed another courteous response due to lack of email notification, which is the only way I'd be back here between crises (not that I'm not genuinely interested in lotsa stuff at this forum, because I am... but I'm already a surfing addict, gotta draw the line somewhere!). Thank you Count! I was mistaken about the model, it is 1750, but that is one of the 1730 to 1755 range that are all pretty much the same thing I guess. I had scooped up everything that was available for me at Toshiba. Well, so I only have a couple days I guess, to be able to post a finding on why Windows won't load anytime I try to install Kerio or Tiny 2.1.5. I didn't stay on the trail of it too intensively, but am resuming that now at a Kerio/Tiny forum (though could turn out it will happen with any fw), as I do need a firewall. I have gotten everything else I needed on this thing just fine. At one point I even came across two of you, Derek and Count, lamenting on a KBscary thread (original KB891711 patch), and thought THAT was hooking the install since many people's PCs WERE looping into startup menu/safe mode related to certain firewalls. But then I realized that not only would I have had the corrected version of that patch, but it was one that was inactivated by my registry restore. Which feeds into... I COULD spend the remaining life of this thread telling you what a nightmare it was trying to figure out how to tell which of the 21+ Windows Updates I had installed the day of the registry I chose to implement were actually active... But suffice to say: M$ gave me the major run around and brush off (surprise surprise); amazingly, I could surf up no info on it online; and in the end... as complicated as it is, I am about POSITIVE I figured it allll out myself. Yes ALL of it, including finding out the patch numbers for ancient security updates that aren't listed by anything but date anymore, and realizing exactly how many places in the system patches can be looked for. Then I used the corp site (thanks Derek, think it was you talking to me from a post from the past on that one) to reinstall the few I appeared to be missing. Ok, I knew y'all must miss my jabbering by now so there was a fix for ya, LOL!

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Thx for update. I'm running Kerio 2.1.5 so it is possible to make it work on W98SE - can't recall any problems. If you type qfecheck in the Run box it will give you the info on what "Windows" Updates are on your system (not OE or IE). It will also tell you any that are in trouble. Help/About gives some Q numbers in IE & OE. Also Updates show in Control Panel/Add-Remove. You are right, that KB891711 thingy is dead and burried now. Good luck. DerekW

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...sheesh, how much easier than my ways would a couple of those have been... you'd think the M$ tech and his supervisors would have freakin known that much... (when no one could help I was told I'd get the answer via email... Then within minutes I got an email saying "Nice working with you, based on our last conversation this issue seems to be resolved..." Yeah I shook things up a bit after that and even scared up a call back a week later, but by then had devised verification methods myself...) This tech was even still saying the old bit about KB891711 "not being intended for Win98" and how it would be off the update site soon... But that's not worth sweating now, was wondering... Don't suppose the Kerio clash could somehow be due to it bumping into the million old McAfee entries in the registry somehow? (Seems to have only been AV though.) After my registry restore, that vshinit thing had been unearthed, that had never presented itself before... My friend may well have removed McAfee incorrectly too... If that could possibly be a factor... is it ok to just delete any McAfee registry entries as long as they mention *only* McAfee? (Well suppose I should read something about editing the registry first...!)

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Much safer to use this program: regcleaner It simply lists suppliers and program names, so if any McAfee stuff appears (or other programs you've uninstalled) you just tick the box and get shot of it. It's about the safest registry cleaner there is but, as always, only let it remove certainties. You can type regedit in the Run box and look for McAfee entries afterwards but don't push your luck. You have to be very careful (in the left pane particularly) to make sure there are no non-McAfee dependents. If you still have Kerio trouble then it's probably best to repost, as this one is near its end. Can't think of anything obvious but sometimes you get gliches with programs due to the particular software mix on your machine. DerekW

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Looks great, thanks (I'm shooting for #120 I guess lol)! :o)

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