Is there a better registry editor than the one included in windows 98? It seems to miss items, during searches.
John

The windows editor should find everything that is visible, so examples would be of interest.

What it won't do is translate coded stuff back into plain english. I think I've seen some that do but I don't remember them off the top of my head. Google might help.

DerekW

Hi Derek,
No, mainly things I want to remove, using the find function, that refer to software I've uninstalled. I can't give you an example. It sometimes takes a couple of scans to get all the bits and pieces, especially when they're large installations, that drop a lot of stuff there. Most recently I combed the registry for references to "Mozilla" Suite, after having uninstalled it. It didn't get everything on the first pass.

When removing remenants of an installation you would need to know more than simply the name of the program.
I suggest you try a registry cleaner instead.
Registry cleaners search for orphan entries. Doesn't matter where they were originally generated.
The only issue is the cleaner needs to be up to date.
I still use a product that was freeware and then went commercial. I need to be careful about automatically removing entries because this version is old. However I can look the entries over and pick and choose. Can also create a backup for restoration purposes, although I never bother.
Why are you worried about the odds & ends left about anyway. The only issue I have ever run into is when attempting to re-install some software. If certain registry entries have been left behind the program MAY not re-install properly.
Also when shareware has expired and I wish to try it again, cleaning the registry usually won't allow a re-install. This is because the original installation inserts a benign entry somewhere in the registry that is totally unrelated to the program but won't usually be picked up by a cleaner. Unless you know what the entry actually was the ONLY was to re-install is to restore the registry to a pre-install state. This isn't pracical because during the evaluation period other changes have been made to the registry that you don't want to undo.

I'm quite a registry addict but I've never had to scan twice to get "the same word". The only variations are whether "Match whole string only" is ticked or not, or when I've changed the search string slightly.

I agree with OTH on this. Having quite thoroughly and deliberately tested several registry cleaners I've found definite proof that most are capable of removing the wrong thing at times. I too only let them remove entries when I am certain they are no longer needed or are definitely invalid. If in doubt I leave them in place.

I've also found that some run multiple "undo's" in the wrong order upon restoration, thereby completely failing to restore certain keys (again this is proven) - I can elaborate.

The latest version of a popular registry cleaner now removes less than the earlier version did, which is very telling. Hats off to that particular author - he's realised. Some have gone the other way.

The whole idea of having a perfectly clean registry (and the often claimed speed advantage) is over-rated. Mostly it makes little odds.

DerekW

google for 'advanced windows care'
free download
cleans and maintains the os in one compleate action

Thanks OtheHill/Derek,
I understand what you're saying, but I still think it doesn't hurt to get right in there and remove some of the 'obvious' leftovers. I have several registry cleaners*, and they 'do' leave things behind. Why do it? Well, in the past I used to try a lot of software out, not so much anymore, and I've always thought that it's good to keep the registry as slim as possible. And as OtheHill has suggested, fragements do hamper the reinstallation of removed or wrongly installed appps. Yes, this approach has caused me some grief, but it's all part of the learning process. I will check and see what the 'find' function misses, but I have noted it on a few occassions. Shareware's not a problem. I never install it.
* I can give you a list of what I use.
John

Sure, that all makes perfect sense.

It's just that many folk run cleaners and let them remove all. This can result in odd programs which don't work when they are started at some later time. They probably don't realise the connection because of the time lapse.

Even worse when registry cleaners remove system stuff. It can be quite a hassle touring Google in the hope of finding replacement entries (even assuming they are happy/safe in fixing the registry).

DerekW

freeware Regcleaner.exe here:
http://www.capetechsupport.com/down...

I have used a slightly older version of this for years. It has never made any mistakes for what I have used it for. It does not attempt to alter Registry entries, unlike some other more dangerous to use registry cleaners - it only deletes them. You can undo any deletion of entries in Backup, but I have never had to do that.

I recommend you set Options - Registry Cleanup - Method to Manual rather than the default Automatic.
Use Tools - Registry Cleanup to search for useless registry entries.
If you're not sure you should delete an entry he finds useless, don't select it, but I have never had any problem deleting any entry he finds useless.
Some programs will make useless entries in the registry when they are installed - it isn't just poorly designed un-installs that do that.
Startup List - if un-installing a program does not get rid of an entry in Msconfig - Startup, you can get rid of it there. In order to show up in that list, there must be a checkmark beside the entry (related line) in Msconfig - Startup
Uninstall Menu - is what you see in Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs. If uninstalling a program does not get rid of an entry there, you can get rid of it here.
File Types - easily view or change what program opens what file type.
If an association is wrong or you want to change it, select it, Remove it, and the next time you open a file with that extension, etc. Windows will ask you what program to open it with.
Software - list is useful to tell you which software was installed by some program you just installed or since the last time Regcleaner was run. They are tagged New by default if they were not found the last time Regcleaner was run, and ones found New this time will be tagged Old by default the next time Recleaner is run. Right clicking on an entry tells you what would be removed from the registry if you selected it to be removed.
I have not tried removing a New file entry, or a Shell extensions entry.

If you made the mistake of deleting files for a program rather than using it's proper un-install, or if files for a program were somehow corrupted or deleted by some other program, and it won't un-install in Add/Remove Programs, you are usually best off to install the program again if you can, then un-install it with it's proper un-install.
If you can't install the program again, then select and Remove the entries in the Software list you are sure apply to that program, then use Tools - Registry Cleanup to search for useless registry entries.

You will get as many opinions on registry cleaners as replies.

The fact remains that some registry cleaners remove valid entries (if you let them), and thereby prevent programs running. I have done before and after tests which prove this so it is not just opinion.

If you don't believe me then download a program called Winkey (a key memoriser program). See how long it lasts if you let a registry cleaner remove everything. This is but one example. Maybe some cleaners will be fine but certainly not all.

Few people who say they have had no trouble with them can also say they have never had to re-install programs. I'm not suggesting that this is always because of over-clever registry cleaners but I think it highly like that this is the case in some instances. This part IS just opinion.

It is pointless me adding countless examples and producing an even more massive post but among them are registry cleaners that seem to think quite normal and well known file extensions are invalid or obsolete despite the file types being present.

Another one I've had is where a file is "qualified" in the registry. With many cleaners if they find a registry path which has a file marked setup.exe/s (for example) will report it as invalid because there is no such file as "setup.exe/s". The consequences are obvious.

Many cleaners take no account of registry entries which are reserved for later use. When they are eventually required you hit problems.

I have already mentioned in a previous post that the "undo's" cannot always be totally relied on. This was also proved quite definitely by tests I carried out.

I won't go on any more but all I am saying is take care if you use them, and don't have any more than about 95% faith in them. It is the 5% that could cause you hassle. I'm not all that sure that they produce much in benefit either unless they are used as a tool rather than faith healing.

DerekW

He can take a look at that Regcleaner.exe and decide for himself. It has been around since about 2000 and I have never come across anyone who mentioned it causing them problems. It used to be commonly recommended on many freeware sites, but there was no version for 2000 or XP. The same guy now sells an inexpensive commercial version for 2000 and up. And as I said, if he's unsure whether to delete an entry he doesn't have to Remove it.

Tubesandwres

If Regcleaner.exe is one of those cleaners where you simply untick against authors names and installed software then I agree. That particular type is quite safe to use for removing unecessary remnants of previously uninstalled or removed programs.

For most cleaners which give wadges of so called invalid entries they suggest you could delete, then I would always advise caution. It was these I was discussing in my inputs. The mere fact that many have items in red that they suggest you leave in place, shows that even the authors are not 100% certain.

DerekW

I have used it hundreds of times and have had no problems, nor has any of the many people I know who have used it. The registry cleanup only finds entries that he thinks are doing nothing at all in the registry.

I have used that program too. I believe when a system is really trashed and there are hundreds of entries found the program will lockup. I now use JV16Powertools1.3 ver195. I THINK both of those programs were written by the same author. This program was bought by Mace. This is the last freeware version. Find it here:
http://www.aplusfreeware.com/catego...

Re #12

From your last line it "appears" to work much the same way as most registry cleaners. However, I've not tried that particular one so I am happy to assume it could be an exception.

As for some of the others then I can assure you that I have proved without any shadow of doubt that they have removed valid entries. In some cases they even stopped programs working. This was always repeatable and there was no problem thereafter unless I let the registry cleaners have their way.

If you google around you will find registry cleaner reviews similar issues have been found (ie cleaners have broken other programs) and the details have been spelled out. Presumably that is why several registry cleaners include an "ignore" feature.

I have not said "do not use registry claners" (I use them myself) but simply advised caution based on what I have unearthed over the years. I can't really see what is wrong with that.

DerekW

OtheHill

As it happens that is one of the cleaners I use.

It's not so bad but if you do ever have to run the undo it gets it wrong.

For safe restore (undo) the .reg file should save in reverse order to that found - ie last first. In a given run, if a cleaner first takes out a Value and then a Key, if the Key is put back after the value it overwrites the lot, so the Value then goes missing. This is important with cleaners such as jv16 that delete keys as well as values.

I am perfectly happy with the Registry Tool (top button) but apply the same caution with the Registry Cleaner part itself as any other.

It's not half so frightening as RegSeeker although that does happen to get the undo right.

DerekW

"I THINK both of those programs were written by the same author."

Jouni Vuorio - JV powertools - ?

"I believe when a system is really trashed and there are hundreds of entries found the program will lockup"

Depends on what you mean by really trashed. If you use it often enough there aren't that many useless entries. I probably wouldn't use a registry cleaner on a badly crashed system in any case, I'd re-load Windows after rescuing what I could - but I haven't had a really bad crash on my own computers.
......

"I have not said "do not use registry claners" (I use them myself) but simply advised caution based on what I have unearthed over the years. I can't really see what is wrong with that."

You have made that adundantly clear in this post and in many other posts - I already know your views about the matter. RegCleaner is one of the good ones.
Shakushinnen may have left the building in any case.

Tubesandwires

Sure, in recent times I have advised caution and said many times that I do use registry cleaners myself. I regard most of them as risky in the hands of a novice.

In the early days I used them with too much faith, letting them take out whatever they reported. My arguments are based on facts I have proved since coupled with a better understanding of the registry. Please point out which particular finding (of the few I listed in #9) that you dispute.

...or do you really believe I am making them up? In which case whatever motive could I possible have?

I have just downloaded regcleaner. I remember it now and it works just the way as I described in para 1 of my #11, which is the same as the Registry Tool part of jv16. I agree it is by the same author. As I have already said "I am quite happy with any cleaner that works in that manner", although few do.

It strikes me that you have been discussing that one particular cleaner (which is the exception) and I have been discussing practically all of the rest which work in an entirely different way.

What I've been talking about are cleaners that give pages of entries and paths that they think are invalid. These are quite different and list entries, waiting for the OK from the user to remove them. They do not list "valid" entries in the way that regcleaner does - with the latter it is only intended that the user makes specific and limited selections.

DerekW

"It strikes me that you have been discussing that one particular cleaner (which is the exception)....."

That is the only one I have used other than Microsoft's primitive RegClean. I can't comment on any other. I use Norton WinDoctor too, manually, not changing anything I'm not sure of, but it doesn't get rid of some of the useless entries or do the other things RegCleaner does.

Geez. Your #18 has succeeded in one respect, which you (and maybe others LOL)will be no doubt be pleased to hear after all this:

It has rendered me completely speechless.

I'm off.......

DerekW

"Total Uninstall" or "InCtrl4/5"
Programs such as the above take a more proactive approach by tracking/recording all that an installation does thereby allowing one to remove/undo all that an installer had done.

Bryan

I had the free version of Total Uninstall but don't know if the free version can still be found.
I also acquired Inctrl 4 from PC Mag before they started charging for their apps.

Well,
Thank you all for your suggestions and help. It has been very instructive.
And now, I will weigh in with my 'experiences' I don't pretend to know how these things work, but over the past 6 years of using windows 98 have found the following:
I have been using Regcleaner v4.3 over that entire time, without any problems, except for once, when I 'stupidly' told it to 'reset hardware configuration'. This resulted in a total disaster. I can't recall what I had to do to right the ship, but it was drastic. Other than that it has worked beautifully. Thank you tubesandwires for the primer. I have copied your post.
The other programs I use, uncritically, and without reservation are:
Regseeker
Dustbuster
oleclean
CCleaner
AnalogX - dll cleaner
Drive Cleanup Wizard
EasyCleaner
XEN
I'm sure these aren't all registry cleaners, and may duplicated each others efforts, but along with Adaware and defrag they are mostly what I use to keep my system spanking clean.
I'd be interested in hearing other peoples experiences, especially when using the above.
John
P.S. Kudos to this site for putting in place a posting notification proceedure.

Thanks for posting again.
It would be tedious to use this site without the "posting notification" because so many make posts here.

Yes,
I've been a member here for a few years now, and it is a bit 'tedious', as you say, having to constantly return, especially when you're my age and sometimes forget where you posted.
John

shakushinnen

Just in case you pop back (or anyone else browses this post) I thought it proper to add this:

I recently downloaded the latest version of EasyCleaner from ToniArts. The version I previously had worried me quite a bit and I certainly didn't approve many of the stack of things it suggested you could remove.

The newer one is a pleasant surprise. It still reports quite a lot but far less than the old version and 'm slowly wading through them. My short list of ones I'm leaving there (that caution thing) is getting less and less and my confidence is growing. Checking each entry thoroughly takes a long while but nothing has really alarmed me yet, so it's looking good.

As EasyCleaner has only ever deleted values (entries) not keys (folders) then the undo strategy is not too important, so it should be OK on that count too.

As said, you are quite safe with regclean because it operates in a totally different way to most cleaners.

DerekW

Hi Derek,
Thanks for looking at this. Truth is that the version of Easy Cleaner I use is probably the one you don't have too much confidence in i.e. 1.7f. I tried the new version, when it came out, must be a couple of years ago now, but didn't like GUI, so I went back to 1.7f, which I still use. I have never had any problems with it, TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
Thanks again,
John

Another thing, actually two other things.
1) Analog X's dll cleaner gives one the option of archiving the following:
*.drv,*.ini,*.ocx,*.cpl,*.hlp,*.dat,*.qtc,
Can any of these be safely removed, archived, without compromising the system's operation.
2)Easy Cleaner will find all of the duplicate files in your system. Is there a method, or rule of thumb, that can be used to determine which duplicates are just taking up space, and serving no useful function?
Thanks,
John

The version of Easy Cleaner I am getting the better vibes about is version 2.

All of the file types you mentioned are quite valid, normal, and well known. Search *.cpl in "Find/Files or Folders" for example (or any of the others). You will see you have files with all of those extensions present right now on your machine and "in use". Some are essential system files - cpl being your control panel stuff for example. This underlines the point I've been making in these posts. Don't let it touch them or it is likely to stop no end of things from working.

I've never liked the "duplicate file finder" part of EasyCleaner (my better vibes are related only to the "registry cleaner" part itself). Very often files are deliberately duplcated in different places. Some programs require different versions for example. I would leave them in place and not use that feature of EasyCleaner. The small amount of space you might save could result in a lot of hassle.

DerekW

Thanks Derek.
I will take your advice.
John

I use CCLeaner. I run it maybe once every few weeks, nothing too major. It may find a few redundant registry entries, but I can safely say these are always to do with significant things; such as entries referring to uninstalled programs or moved shortcuts -- thats it.

I dont run it too often so as not to cause any hassle.