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Hi there,
I'm sure you all have heard of this before and are getting quite sick of this by now, beleive me, I know how you feel.
My computer is running on 256mb of RAM, which I have found is no longer enough for me with all my gaming requirements. I have ordered a 512mb DDR RAM to upgrade to 768mb. Problem with this is that windows 98 only officially supports 512.
I know the most common reccomendation is to simply install Windows 2000 or XP, which one day I will have to do I guess but for now its not really an option.
The problem is that any computer using more than 512mb of RAM and under 95/98/me will halt on startup. The full problem seems to be addressed here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q253912&The most common workaround seems to be altering the system.ini file to restrict windows to <whatever> memory, using the MaxFileCache, but I haven't exactly found out what I need to do to this for 768mb, only 512 or 1gb ram. To complicate things even more it seems you need to do this to 70% of the ram you have installed or something(?).
I also don't know the problems with this procedure, presumably there are some. What if for example I set it as if I had 768mb while I still have 256? What if I set it wrongly? Does procedure cause any other problems?
I realise that getting windows 98 to run with 768mb at maximum effiency may be asking for too much, but at the very least I would like to be able to run it with this amount at the best I can, with the least amount of problems until I can upgrade.
Here are some links to places that I have previously explored. As you can see I have been around a bit ;p
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win98/Q_20660821.html
http://www.tek-tips.com/gviewthread.cfm/lev2/67/lev3/70/pid/615/qid/600792
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;181862
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;184447
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca/tips.htm#64mb
http://www.pclincs.co.uk/Forums/showthread/t-958.html
http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm
NOTE: From other peoples comments it seems I may just get away with it, as most problems seem to be with a gig or more memory, but I'm not exactly going to keep my fingers crossed
Should be getting my RAM in about a day or two, so I'll tell y'all how it went, till then much help appreciated!
"windows 98 only officially supports 512."
Nope. Don't know where you got this, but regardess ....
What you are restricting with the System.ini change, is the memory used for file caching (Vcache).
Windows will see and use (if required) ALL of the installed ram. The INI change, restricts it to only using 512MBs for the file cache (as a maximum). (a size larger than that CAN result in failures, depending on your hardware config).
Do Start > Run > System.ini
Scroll to the [vcache] section
Add the line
MaxFileCache=524288Save and exit
(obviously, before you install the additional ram)
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Hi y'all,
http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/bkvcache98.html
Backup your settings first, then try this method..Good luck
Peace
beansoup
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Having more than 128 of RAM in a Win9x box is going to make almost no difference. If you have 6 or 7 programs open at once, then the apps can take advantage of the RAM, but Win 9x itself? Forget about it. 768 MB of RAM in a 98 system is ridiculous.
You said in your post, "I know the most common reccomendation is to simply install Windows 2000 or XP..." There's a reason for that- those O/S's are much better and efficient at handling large amounts of RAM. I've been down the road a few times, and I've altered the system.ini, all that stuff, the bottom line is when I installed Win 2000, on a somewhat sluggish 98 PC, it blazed away with the same amount of RAM (160MB).
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Thanks all, I hope to be getting the extra ram tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it went.
WhitPhil, I think I know what you mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
Windows 98's Vcache takes up any unused RAM on my system (some of it is taken up for the browser and system functions, etc). After all, seeing as there is unused RAM we may aswell cache it. The problem with this is that when I launch a new program it can't get any RAM, so its got to wait until ram is freed up by vcache.
By adding that line to the system.ini I am effectively letting the vcache only have 512mb at any one time. The other 256mb would be completly unused until I launch something which can use that RAM. eg- A heavy RAM intensive game or a graphics program.
So when I am about to install the RAM I do the following:
1- Startup computer and alter the system.ini as stated. Save and close.
2- Shut down computer
3- Install the extra ram
4- Boot up computer.
5- Live a happy fun filled life with my extra memory, being able to play my games as they should be played :)
The only other thing is what if I did this process while I still only had my 256? The MS Knowledge Base here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;108079
says that: 'Although the user interface is limited to 24 MB, the theoretical maximum size of the cache is actually 2GB. This cache size is using physical RAM; therefore, the cache size is limited to the amount of RAM on your computer. Setting the cache size greater than the physical amount of RAM available results in the following error message when re-entering the Virtual Memory settings in the 386 Enhanced dialog box:
32-bit file access was unable to run. Your hard disk(s) may not be compatible with 32-bit file access.'
If say my PC halted on startup would I be able to enter safe mode and take out the line? This is the only bit that really concerns me now...
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Hi raincheck,
The reason for the upgrade isn't so much just for windows 98, nor is it particularly for having several programs open up at once, for me its more so that I can play some of my games that jerk a bit with just the 256. I consider that for me windows itself works fast enough. Heres an examle-
One game to consider would be 'Morrowind'. It is a fully 3d game, and right now I find myself jerking like hell whenever I turn around in an outside location. Back when my other 256 was still alive and I had 512 ram I never had this problem. So I decided to get more RAM. I thought 768mb would do nicely for this and for the future more demanding games.
For now, if my computer can run with the extra ram and my games can make use of it like when I had the 512 I'm happy. I realise that windows xp will probably be required in the future if I wish to make use of the extra 256 in my games. Thats why I didnt simply get another 256, knowing that one day I would need the 768.
I hope you can uderstand what I'm saying under all my waffling and babbling ;p
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"The problem with this is that when I launch a new program it can't get any RAM, so its got to wait until ram is freed up by vcache."
That's the fallacy.
This "wait time" is measure in nano-seconds. Comressing vcache is an extremely quick operation."If say my PC halted on startup would I be able to enter safe mode and take out the line? "
Yes. But if your PC halts at boot time, it won't be because of this line. This just sets an upper limit to the cache, that's it. There is no preallocation of ram, or anything else that would cause a halt.
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Beansoup"
"Both modern versions of Windows (95 and 98) are hobbled by two major flaws "
This is not correct.
Win95 had an issue with the cache that was resolved with Win98. There is NO reason to place a limit on vcache until you get above 512MBs of installed ram.The recommendations for the swapfile settings are misleading also.
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Yes, I see what you mean. When I get my RAM I'll post on how things went, hopefully nothing unexpected.
Thanks again to you all, you've all been a great help, I'll recommend this place to all my friends.
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Many people are wrong on this.W98 cannot use more than 512MB. It's a wierd side effect. (the 'system arena' contains info needed to launch programs, desktop settings, - and - memory page tags. With more than 512MB the entire arena gets full and the OS starts doing wierd things. Your desktop might change to 16 colors, DOS programs won't start, etc. etc. Microsoft groupies, own up to it - w98 cannot use > 512 MB.)
For a 'soft solution', DL and install the free program Cacheman. It tries to use memory more
efficiently, thus helping the problem. It has other features too.If that isn't enough, simply Start->Run->msconfig.
on the last tab ('system.ini' I think) there is a box with 'Advanced' on it. Click that box. there is a list of options, including 'limit memory to XXX MB', with XXX as your option. Put in 512. Don't fool with Vcache unless you want, this does that job for you.This is a long-admitted problem, see many articles in the MS-Knowledge Base. They put that drop-down box in there for a reason. And before you run to XP, all the classic and most popular games (Quake, UT, Half-Life) don't run on it. Look at your docs carefully.
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Win98 CAN use more than 512. Point me to an (respectable) reference that states otherwise.
The system area ONLY gets full if you don't place an upper limit on the file cache to keep it under 512.
Cacheman does nothing to help memory management. It places arbitrarily low limits on the file cache and it's "memory recovery" "feature" is a complete waste of time. (like all other memory managers)
Why "limit" the ram to 512? If you don't want to use the ram, just take it out!!!
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As I have said, I'll post with the results when everythings done. I used to have Windows XP on this PC but had to roll back to 98. Its a very long story that started with me buying a computer from 'Time' computers and living to severly regret it (I was young and foolish, still am I suppose ;p ).
From what I have gathered from WhitPhil and various other people and sites, the 'msconfig' method simply makes your system use only 512mb of RAM out of whatever you have, essentially 'removing' the rest of it, so to speak.
It seems my original statement was incorrect, windows can make use of over 512mb of RAM, though you may run into problems if you do put more than that in (especially in the gigabyte region). The solutions are to edit the vcache settings by editing system.ini, removing the extra ram or using the 'msconfig' method (same result as physically removing).
I guess I'll have a better idea when the RAM arrives...
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I just installed the extra RAM about 30mins ago and everythings running nice and smooth, I'me able to run my most demanding game (morrowind) at full settings now :)
Thanks again to all, Ryan.
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