Name: JAMESGARFIELD Date: January 12, 2007 at 20:16:51 Pacific Subject: WIN31 Optimal settings OS: WIN31 CPU/Ram: 486/32 Model/Manufacturer: HOME
Comment:
Greetings,
Multiple Questions on this thread for you:
My 486/WIN31 has 32Mb of ram. What optimum size do you suggest for the SWAPFILE, and for SMARTDRive? Previously I had the SWAPFILE at some huge size like 95Mb. Just dropped it down to 8Mb, seems to smooth and speed things... ?
Currently my SMARTDRive is 6Mb. Do you suggest taking it up to 8M or even 16M like you posted earlier?
Optimum recommended setting for FILES in CONFIG.SYS? I've heard minimum should be 80, maximum may be... 180, 200? At what point does it become overkill?
I have always had FCBS=16,0 but have just now learned FCBS is old, superceded pretty much by FILES.. Y/N?
BUFFERS? Needed? I heard BUFFERS is pretty much redundant with SMARTDRive?
My objective is to make WIN31 as fast and stable as possible. Ironic, how the internet wasn't around when it could have been most helpful to all us old 3.1 users.
It would be helpful to know what version & flavour of DOS is actually running the show, and if you are indeed running Win31 or Windows for WorkGroups, as there are differences
"Do you suggest taking it up to 8M or even 16M like you posted earlier? "
Like "who" posted earlier? I doubt if a Smartdrv setting anything beyond 4Mb would be useful, and higher settings use more memory, above and beyond the cache amount
"I've heard minimum should be 80, maximum may be... 180, 200?"
Wha... ? Where do you 'hear' these things?
Like anything else, higher settings use up resources - under DOS622, the default value is 8 and it's doubtful if you'd need to go any higher than, say, 40 although some applications may advise a higher setting
I would direct you to the DOS622 Help/Qbasic application, unless your DOS version is very different - that will answer many of your DOS queries, Windows is something else again
For such an 'old 3.1 user' you seem pretty unfamiliar with many of the basic concepts
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an interpreter
I think I have seen that recommendation for some database program or another - at any rate, that'd be a maximum value, not a starting point.
Overzealous settings in the DOS configuration can make the DOS 'footprint' so large that it can't even be loaded in the HMA, reducing the amount of conventional memory for DOS programs, and would impact Windows as well
The main goal of a 'good' DOS setup is to maximize the amount of conventional memory available once the OS and its various drivers & TSRs are loaded - as close to the full 640K as possible for use by whatever DOS applications may require it
Windows is pretty distinct from DOS, and is mainly governed by the system.ini file (among others) but a poor or improper DOS configuration can affect everything
Didn't mean to unduly insult the OP, but 'king leo', you have been terribly misinformed, on many fronts - practically to the point where you need to begin again
As for the lament that "Ironic, how the internet wasn't around when it could have been most helpful" - you need to check your timeline. Win31 was released in '92 - - while much depends on your definition, the internet was more or less recognizable on or about that era. For many of the 'old timers', their first online experience was with Win3xx - and there is still a wealth of online resources for that old GUI, including (but not limited to) the link referenced by orbital
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an interpreter
Right, I should have indicated the DOS version is 6.22, and the Windows version is plain old 3.1 (no wfwg, etc).
Sorry I appear so 'unfamiliar with the basic concepts' and 'terribly misinformed to the point where I need to begin again', jboy. I'll try to do better.
As for 'who' posted earlier, what happened was I had run a google search for Win31 optimized settings, and it led me to this web site here. When I tried to post my response to the original thread, the system here told me that was a 'very old thread that nobody would probably see or reply to', and it made me post my reply as a new thread. In the original post, the 'who' was just above me, but not here... so sorry for that confusion.
As for your question: "I've heard minimum should be 80, maximum may be... 180, 200? Wha... ? Where do you 'hear' these things?"
... two sources for this I've found:
COMPUTERHOPE.COM/AC/ATM defines Files=30 as a sweet spot
and MICRO.UOREGON.EDU/WORKSHOPS/ WINDOWSOUTLINE/WIN31.HTML claims FILES=30 is good enough for DOS, but Win31 needs more like FILES=80.
So, how much extra resources are consumed for each 10 Files specified?
Orbital: Thanks for the MGDX suggestion. I'll go give it a look.
So now we've got the intros out of the way, I'll look forward to learning more from you. You spoke wisely of making sure DOS is as healthy and solid as possible before running Windows, this is true. How much free conventional memory does your system show in DOS? I would be interested in learning techniques of getting more drivers and programs loaded into the HMA, perhaps you could show me some pointers there.
Thanks for the tip on Memmaker. I've used it before in pure DOS mode, and it works as advertised. It seems to work by analyzing the initial size of a driver, plus the size of the 'elbow room' memory that the driver will need when running, and then it applies /S and /L switches to the LH statement to make the driver fit into just the amount of memory it needs.
So, the objective here is to fit as many drivers as possible into the HMA, correct? Windows likes to see the max possible free conventional memory when it launches?
I know that Windows will usually 'run' with everything set to plain vanilla, but we're looking for the difference between just running, and running really fast and tight.
"So, the objective here is to fit as many drivers as possible into the HMA, correct?"
Not exactly - the HMA (High Memory Area) can really only be used to load DOS itself 'high' - this is accomplished by loading HIMEM.SYS as well as the line DOS=HIGH (as you might expect).
The UMA (Upper Memory Area) is where drivers & whatnot are preferably loaded. To manage that, it is necessary to load EMM386.EXE as well as the line DOS=UMB - - although that is often combined as DOS=HIGH,UMB. Once that is done, you may load devices from config.sys via DEVICEHIGH= and anything else from autoexec.bat or the command line via LH (loadhigh)
As stated, the purpose is to load as little as possible into conventional memory in order to maximize the amount for use by DOS programs - within reason - you try to achieve a balance so that you can load everything that is needed, and still have enough low memory to meet the requirements of whatever DOS application you intend to run
Much of that is covered in the DOS help program - if you would peruse that, it would likely allow you to ask better questions
If your primary goal is to run Windows well, you don't need to squeeze every last byte of memory out of DOS - a basic configuration will do. There's really not much that can be done in DOS that will get Windows "running really fast and tight" beyond a basic setup, as Windows is quite distinct from DOS. Yes, a 'reasonable' smartdrv cache helps, and sure, you can reduce buffers when running smartdrv
... and yeah, 'files=80' is excessive for most systems - 30 is typical
Sure, QEMM is about the best for conserving low memory in DOS, but it's not necessary. Personally, I would say you should become more familiar with plain vanilla M$ DOS before you go exploring the variants
Do a little research and a little experimentation, and arrive at your own conclusions
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an interpreter
My Win31 works fairly well. Just a few little tweaks here and there which occupy my time. Interesting observation... I first posted to this forum from my 'new' system, which is a modern PIII 2.5Ghz, XP, etc... and the window loaded here quick and snappy. But for the first time tonight I'm looking at this forum ON the 486 running Win31, with AOL 4.0 (highest version supported by Win31). The Computing.Net takes ForEVER to load... almost give up on it, then it pops up. I figure it's just the browser, what do you think?
One problem I've always had with 31 is the diminishing FSRs. I'm told this is a common issue with Win31, yes? I can start out with something like 87 or 88% Free System Resources.. then over the course of the day it will creep down and down... until things get unstable and wacky at about 30% or less.
What basically causes this? Bad drivers? Misbehaving applications? Are there any settings to DOS or Win that could help avoid this?
While we're here... do tell me a little about yourself? Are you an instructor somewhere, or on the staff at Computing.Net? I'm sure I'll have more to ask later, but first I've got to go re-read the dos manual, so I can 'ask better questions'.
Losing system resources is quite normal in Win3.xx as far as I remember, due to memory leak. Where a program has been run, used and then shutdown but some parts of the program have stayed in RAM taking the available memory away from you and you can't get it back except for restarting the comp.
Some people have asked for memory tuneup software like RAMtweak, and MemOptimizer. But I've never found one for DOS.xx or a Win3.xx variant.
I may be wrong in how I described Memory leak but thats the gist of what happens to it. Win95had a similar problem as I recall, but it was/wasnt as much of a problem all the time.
To make your Win3.xxs a bit speedier consider using a lower gfraphics resolution of say 640x480@256bit, The larger the graphics setting the more ram and what not that 3.xx needs. I have my Paradise Bali32 VLB card set to 640x480 64K usualy.
Thanks for the info re 'Memory Leak'. That's a good name for it, and correlates with what I've "heard" over the years, from talking with different people. It supposedly has to do with how Win31 uses Cooperative multitasking, vs Preemptive multitasking in current Windows.
Cooperative and Preemptive work kinda the same way, in that in both systems it's a roundhouse timeshareing of the cpu by the various tasks and applications. The big diference is, in the 3.1 Cooperative mode, the system depends on the application to release the CPU when it's done with the allocated time slice. In the Preemptive method, the System can grab back the cpu from the application if it hasn't been released by the allocated time. So, a misbehaving or poorly written application can hang up 3.1, whereas 9x and later will be more able to recover.
In modern windows the stack heap is bigger overall, plus those systems can more aggressively reclaim resources not properly released by applications.
While we do spend a lot of time looking at this classic old 3.1 stuff, it's interesting to observe the (can I say it?) "evolution" of software in just the last 15 years or so. Comparing it to evolution in the natural world, technology is of course advancing at an astounding rate. If you look at DOS and the 8088 systems of the 80s, next to XP on a multiprocessor Pentium box today... gads, makes you wonder what's next? The beginnings of AI?
humm I dont realy recomend you use windows 3.x on a 486... a 586 or 686 would be much better though you can have fun at 4-40mhz
heh I have heard many people that only remember memory errors from windows 3.1 but few that got past them people dont giveup&quit learn!
I've found that... Its usually the computer! processors memorychips and hardrives go bad very slowly..... and cause very strange errors in the process when windows 95-xp are run on the same faulty pc they just run funky and slow then people blame some program or a virous for the problem
as for any real memory errors there are some programs to fix those like syshook and fix1mb but... only the programer making the program can fix the real problems! programers forget to free var memory leaving it marked as used.... real problems ocur when repeated functions create vars and do not free the memory from them the leaks can't be fixed untill the program is closed because freeing memory from a program that is still runing causes errors
programs that use dynamic image vars usually have this sort of error becuase images are large and compound problems very quickly
this ocurs in all windows versions even XP! 16bit apps can use hundreds of megabytes of ram in no time flat!
heh when was the last time you worked on a windows 3.1 program? last year... weak ... yesterday? um me? about and hour ago... and every day this year! windows 3.1 programing gota love it
The Computing.Net takes ForEVER to load... almost give up on it, then it pops up. I figure it's just the browser, what do you think?
Part of that can be resolved by making proper tweaks in your browser(s). I can't speak for AOL's proprietary software, but I can give some tips on the most popular browsers available for Windows 3.x.
Your 486 with 32 MB of RAM shouldn't have any problems running Netscape Communicator 4.08, if it isn't already. IMO, it's the best browser suite available for Windows 3.x if that's what you're aiming for. I recommend going into Edit - Preferences - Advanced and disable Javascript. This will significantly improve load times on this site (and many others.) I only enable Javascript for sites that "need" it. You could also disable images from here to tweak the speed even more.
Netscape Navigator Gold is another good choice to have on the side. Strangely enough, this older version works on some sites where Communicator chokes, so I always have both in Windows 3.x whenever feasible. Go to Options - Network Preferences - Languages, and disable Javascript. You can also disable images directly from the Options menu, which makes it quicker to tweak than Communicator in this regard.
Opera 3.62 is still another great browser to have around, and certainly the lightest on resources in general for Windows. Many tweaks can be toggled by the press of a key (e.g. the 'g' key and Control-g for starters.)
Internet Explorer can be tweaked in similar ways, but I seldom ever use it, as it tends to be a resource hog. Version 3.03 is decent. Disabling scripts and CSS is highly recommended.
And last but not least, there are always DOS ports of Lynx. Those will out-perform any of the Windows browsers on computing.net, but are not nearly as easy to set up as the Windows browsers. Once you get used to Lynx, it's blazingly fast, but it is fastest when run outside of Windows.
As others have suggested, consider upgrading to Windows for Workgroups 3.11 if you can. It has several enhancements available to run better than plain Windows 3.1. Better networking, better modem speeds, 32-bit file and disk access, and other improvements are available.
I don't know your processor speed, but if it's a decent 486DX and if you still have plenty of disk space to spare after doing all the above, you could also install Windows 95 or 95a to another directory, and maintain the ability to dual-boot between 95 and your previous version of DOS via 95's boot menu. This gives you the best of both worlds: Windows 3.x's faster performance plus Windows 95's capabilities to run 32-bit apps if you have the need. If you don't run many 32-bit apps, then Windows 95 would be overkill, especially if Win32s can already handle some of them. The choice is yours.
Thanks for your helpful reply. My 486 is a DX4-100, so hopefully it's still got power waiting to be used. I've lots of questions, and between reading the reference items suggested and reading your advice, I'll keep asking questions till someone tells me to shut up :).
Actually I do have Win3.11 (WFWG I think) laying around. Bought it on Ebay, haven't ever actually used it yet, but based on your advise I may try upgrading to it.
First I need to back up my existing boot / Windows drive, in case something goes terribly wrong. I just got bit a while back, during some tweaks of the SYSTEM.INI, I put in a parameter called PagingDrive=D:, where D: is where my swapfile is. Next time I launched Windows, the D: drive immediately got horribly corrupted. Wiped out the directory table, and I lost all data on that drive, oh cr****p. (Well, thank heaven for SPARQ backups!) Near as I can determine, it was either that PagingDrive=D:, or MaxBPS=750 settings, were the last changes I had made to the SYSTEM.INI, so I suspect one of those caused it... what do you think? (I think PagingDrive is redundant, since there is already a line in the System.Ini that defines the location of the swap file.)
On the subject of swapfile, when you set up a Permanent Swapfile, it becomes a file named something like '386SPAR...' which is marked Hidden / System. Question: Does Smartdrv cache acceses to this permanent swap file, or does Win31 access it more directly (ie, not using Smartdrv cache)? Or should this permanent Swap file be located on a drive not cached by Smartdrv? Actually it would be Great if I could use a Ramdrive for the permanent swap file, but Win31 sez nooo way on that.
About Nagivagor, I just downloaded Navigator 4.08, which comes highly recommended from here. If AOL is my ISP, I can use AOL to open the modem and the port, then start Navigator, right? (Pardon if my questions are simple, we all begin somewhere.)
Backups are always a good idea, so you are certainly more prepared than a lot of people (the majority, actually.) This was always the beauty of Windows 3.x: just restore the necessary system files and you're back up and running. No need to mess with the registry, as in the case with newer versions of Windows.
Anyway, if disk space isn't an issue, you can always install Windows for Workgroups in another directory, say C:\WFW or C:\Win311, while preserving your existing Win 3.1 installation. Windows Setup will add the necessary path to the beginning, so typing WIN will launch Windows for Workgroups from almost any directory. To launch your old Windows 3.1, you'd simply type WIN from wherever that's installed. Technically speaking, you can have as many 3.x versions of Windows as you wish, all in separate directories, all running over the same version of MS-DOS, as you so choose. This is precisely what I do on some of my PCs, even though it's overkill in some cases, but excellent for testing purposes (e.g. have one Windows installation with Win32s and sound drivers installed, and another without.) I even have a significantly slower 486 than yours (an SX actually), which is currently running MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 3.0, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, and Windows 95, all on just a 150 MB drive, with plenty of room to spare.
As for page file tweaks, I typically prefer doing that through the Control Panel - [386] Enhanced, whenever possible. This way I won't be accidentally enabling options that might be grayed out for a reason. Modifying the SYSTEM.INI directly, as you have found out, isn't typically recommended. I only modify page file options directly in the SYSTEM.INI for extreme cases, such as on PCs with excessive amounts of RAM ( > 384 MB.) On such PCs, I often disable the swap file altogether. In your case, try the default settings initially, especially if you plan on surfing the net often. Then only gradually increase or decrease the page file size as you see fit. There is no magic number; it all depends on which apps you use the most.
I would also leave the SmartDrv settings at their defaults for now. Also, there is never any reason to set a page file on a RAMDrive, when you think about it. In a nutshell, the very purpose of a page file is to consume remaining hard drive space (which is slower) as extra emulated RAM for those who need more RAM. A RAMDrive does the opposite; it consumes extra RAM as hard drive space, for those who have more RAM than they need. So why take away RAM, use it as a disk, only to then use that again back as RAM?! At best, this would cause a significant performance penalty.
As far as AOL goes, I have virtually no experience in that area, so an ex-AOLer can feel free to step in here to correct me if my assumptions are inaccurate. I believe you can launch whichever browser you wish, as long as AOL is launched first and kept open. I was more of a Trumpet Winsock user, and some others here probably use the dialer included with IE. Then there are those who use high-speed connections on Windows for Workgroups 3.11, but that's another topic altogether. :)
This thread just keeps continuing, which is a good thing. Now I really need some help. I have reason to believe I've encountered a virus, associated with IE 5.01.
As I reported earlier, my HD got corrupted and wiped out. This has happened not just once, or twice, but 3 times now. At first, I believed it was caused by me, tweaking on the SYSTEM.INI, because the HD loss happened coincidently as I was working on the INI.
But even after undoing the little tweaks on SYSTEM.INI, proplems persisted. At this time I was also downloading some new files, better browsers, at the suggestion of folks on here. One was Netscape Commander 4.08, which is about a 17Mb EXE file. That one came down fine.
The file I suspect, is IE501.ZIP, 9.31Mb. I can't retrace just now what source I was downloading it from... BUT, *every time* of the 3 times I've downloaded this file, the HD immediately gets wiped. I haven't opened that file, or used it, just downloaded it. Is is possible for a virus to be received just this way???
I have my system partitioned such that AOL is located on logical drive D:, and that's the drive which gets wiped out. Only that one logical drive, nothing else in the system is touched. It's acting very much like a virus -- only happening when I download that one file, and only affecting the current active volume. (Lucky I have AOl on just that drive D, else apparently this would've wiped out my whole system.)
Orbital, let me reply to your other good points in a later post. Right now I'm restoring my D: drive (for the 3'rd time) and trying to figger out what's up with that file IE501.ZIP. Any help / advice greatly appreciated.
check out my latest program vers in the freeware/new/watlers let me know how they work
I suspect there are a lot of files I've uploaded that no one but me has used in a while....
6 computers runing dos all with windows 3.1&3.11 on them windows 3.1 ROCKS!
every person I know of that has installed aol has funky computer problems the 3.1 I tested it on went crazy and the hd is now dead now...
swap files can cover a LARGE amount of space I recomend you keep swap size off or low just think of this real problem.... your hard drive has a bad area on it and ever time you put a large file over that area it causes the hard drive to go crazy! power down etc... I hope your hard drive is not a WD or fujitsu... maxtors usually just klunk dead... some segates get bad sectors but you can cut them up to fix trouble
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