Name: Steve18 Date: August 19, 2004 at 12:58:36 Pacific Subject: Run 3x from dos boot-disk OS: Windows XP Professional S CPU/Ram: Pentium 4 1,5 Ghz. 512 MB
Comment:
Hi can you intall and run Windows 3.1 from a dos 7.10 boot floppy disk without installing dos. If you can, what tools would be needed on the disk? The reason I'm asking is that I want run some old 3.x programs which won't run on XP. I know Win3x can be installed on a logical partition, but does it need the full MS-DOS?
If you installed XP after DOS and had it set up multi boot, you can boot DOS and install win 3.1 ; if not, you'll need a third party partition/boot manager.
As far as which pieces of DOS you need; not much.
io.sys msdos.sys command.com himem.sys smartdrv and maybe a couple others.
I assume youre talking about actually having win31 on your harddrive and just loading dos as the OS..i'm not sure how well it would work if your running ntfs as a file system, but if it's fat ( the dos 7.1 disks of wengiers support booting win31 on fat32...i think).. Your bootdisk would need to have the same files as a regular dos for win31 boot, (like himem, and a mouse driver,and possibly a cdrom driver, depending if it's a cd based game) ..also you should have a config.sys and autoexec.bat with the commands windows looks for ( like path, which in your case would be A:\;C:\WIN31; or whatever dir you put win31 in). Config.sys should have the DEVICE=A:\HIMEM.SYS (which means you put a copy of himem.sys as well as your mouse driver and cdrom driver on the bootdisk..) That would be DEVICE=A:\mouse.sys and the cdrom line..DEVICE=A:\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001 -if you were using the oakcdrom driver..it depends on your driver.... Also DOS=UMB and DOS=HIGH should be in the config.sys as follows... DEVICE=A:\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=A:\mouse.sys DEVICE=A:\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001 DOS=UMB DOS=HIGH
and the autoexec.bat.. A:\;C:\WIN31;
Do *not* use a win98 dos boot disk either..it's incompatible with win31.and remaps the cdrom to the a: drive. Either wengier's dos7.1 (if it's Fat32) or a dos 6x bootdisk will do if you've got fat16 only.. IU suppose it goes without saying to 1)keep it in the drive otherwise youll get error messages when you close the game and/or windows31..and 2) make sure to do a full reboot after your done
Yes, you need the core DOS operating system files to boot to in order to run Win3xx. There are a few Win31 'boot disks' out there, and some known as 'mini windows' - I've never had occasion to try any though.
Not enough room on the floppies for much else - if you wish to access your XP hard drive in order to run applications etc, that HDD would have to be FAT32 or have a FAT or FAT32 partition, and you would need to use the appropriate DOS version.
Hi and thanks for your help. It installed without any problems but I got an error message when i tried to start Windows: "A file that could be needed to start windows could not be found.
Make sure the path-line contains the catalog that contains the file and that the file is on the hard drive. If the file does not exist you can run the setup program to install it or remove it from the system.ini file. A:\LFNXLAT.386"
It's tranlated from swedish so it might not be exactly the same as the english version.
Here's my AUTOEXEC.BAT:
C:\WIN31\SMARTDRV.EXE C:\WIN31\net start @ECHO OFF PROMPT $P$G LFNFOR ON SET DIRCMD=/4 MODE CON RATE=32 DELAY=1 LH KILLER LH DOSKEY LH DOSLFN LH SHSUCDX /D:IDE-CD ECHO. ECHO Now you are in MS-DOS 7.10 prompt. ECHO. PATH=C:\WIN31;%PATH%
The CONFIG.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS REM DEVICE=EMM386.EXE NOEMS DEVICEHIGH=VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IDE-CD COUNTRY=001,437,COUNTRY.SYS SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:640 FILES=30 FCBSHIGH=4,0 BUFFERSHIGH=20 LASTDRIVEHIGH=26 STACKSHIGH=9,256 SET TEMP=. SET TMP=. REM MS-DOS 7.10 Boot Disk LASTDRIVE=Z DEVICE=C:\WIN31\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER DEVICE=C:\WIN31\IFSHLP.SYS
[boot.description] keyboard.typ=101- eller 102-tangenters tangentbord mouse.drv=Microsoft eller IBM PS/2 language.dll=Svenska system.drv=MS-DOS-system codepage=437 woafont.fon=Engelsk (437) aspect=100,96,96 display.drv=VGA network.drv=Microsoft Windows Network (version 3.11) secondnet.drv=Inget extra n„tverk installerat
LFNXLAT.386 appears to be file required for LFN support, so maybe check your documentation and/or disk? Doesn't seem to be listed in your system.ini, as far as I can tell
I'm using a DOS 7.10 boot-disk but I haven't been able to find any documentation about it. I guess if I make a FAT16 partition and use a DOS 6.22 boot disk it would work better but I want to be able to use long file names, thats why I chose DOS 7.10. But I'll try 6.22 and see if that works.
Yeah, I've never tried to kludge LFN support into Win3xx. Wengier (a regular) is the resident expert in that field, but has been absent of late. Might find some info searching computing.net's DOS or Win31 forums, or see if there are further responses/suggestions here.
I've got it running now! But I need the network card to work. Will a DOS network card driver work with Windows 3.11 for Workgroups? I haven't found any Win3x driver for it only a dos driver, but I guess it would work, right?
Seems like the long way to go around - sure, I'd think WfW would be able to access network drives through DOS as Win3.1 does, but if there's a DOS driver, likely there's a WfW driver.
Did you get the LFN problem sorted out, or did you abandon that?
Hi, I decided against using long file names. I used the DOS 7.10 boot disk, because the dos 6.22 wouldn't recognize the FAT partition created with Partition Magic. But when I used the the DOS 7.10 with it's original EMM386.EXE and HIMEM.SYS it would crash when I tried to boot Windows. So I took the EMM386 and HIMEM.SYS from the DOS 6.22 disk and placed it in the DOS 7.10 disk and now it works perfectly. About the NIC drivers, Do you know if there are any WFWG divers for Accton EN1207D-TX PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter? All i've managed to find are DOS drivers. Thanks.
Nevermind about the NIC divers, I found WFWG drivers for it included in the DOS drivers I downloaded. One more thing, will the SVGA drivers work with a GeForce FX 5700?
Can't really say - that's one of the pitfalls of using newer hardware with older systems, you may not have support for high resolution.
Search or check out driverguide.com - that'd be your best bet.
At any rate, glad you've been this successful - I'd originally misunderstood your question to mean you wanted to start & run Win3x from the floppy - which is possible, but perhaps not very useful.
What you're doing makes more sense, and you seem to have a fluency with DOS.
I feel that I didn't so much help as merely observe.
Hi again. I'm unable to install the network driver, when I try to install it the system crashes. I got the drivers from the manufacturer so they should work, but it just gives me an error message about error in MODULE KRNL386.EXE and then error in MODULE PROGMAN.EXE then it crashes. Bad drivers? I haven't found any other drivers. The SVGA driver did not work either. What should I do?
You can't use just any video driver and expect SVGA - you need the pretty much the exact Win3xx driver for your make & model of video. Not always possible with recent hardware.
Did you remove the DOS network settings from Windows? Were those working?
Some NICs require their own setup program - either a diskfile or else it's on the card's ROM, accessed by a key sequence at bootup. Should be a DOS diagnostic included with the drivers, assuming that you do have the correct ones.
If you haven't removed the DOS network settings from your Windows confguration, that may be causing a conflict.
Not sure - I've setup NICs a few times under WfW (successsfully) - more often in Win9x.
Just about every one was different, and involved different problems to overcome before everything worked - of course, having the correct drivers is of paramount importance.
Lockups/crashes would seem to imply either a conflict or a problem with the card's hardware or Windows settings - or incorrect drivers or a even bad card.
I didn't install the dos drivers. I was going to, but when found the wfwg drivers I didn't. I tried installing the ODI version of the driver and that installed without problems. But it can't be started because it's missing som command files that it was supposed to install, but didn't. Do you know where I can find these files?: isl.com accodi.com pxodi.com
I'm writing this in Windows for Workgroups right now! So obviously I've got the NIC working. But it's pretty useless in 16 colors. Aren't there any generic SVGA driver like the ones that are included in 9x/XP that lets you use 256 colors 800/600 without installing specific drivers? The one I tried was a generic SVGA driver made by Microsoft that was supposed to work with a lot of different adapters, but apparently not mine. Or should I just buy a an old PCI card with drivers for 3x?
No, the closest thing top a 'generic' SVGA driver for Win31 would be the one you're likely referring to (SVGA.EXE?) - and it's not really generic, just works with the cards outlined in the accompanying textfile.
You need the specific Win31 video driver for your card in order to attain anything beyond basic VGA.
The same is true for Windows 95/98 - 640x480 @16 colours. For ME, I guess they have a 'basic' 256 colour driver - outside my experience, as is XP. Really doesn't matter - apples & oranges as they say.
Yeah, those are your options:
search for the Win31 driver for your card, if it exists
or
get an older card that you know is supported by Win31. You can get away with 512K VRAM for 256 colours, but for more colours/bigger screen probably 1 or 2Mb+ would be best
What about VESA drivers? I've heard that those will work with almost any card. I haven't been able to find any though, do you know where I could find VESA drivers?
I don't believe that means what you think it does.
VESA is a modern hardware standard, but on really old cards, you can load the software equivalent as a DOS driver, like UNIVBE. This provides VESA support, which is required by certain games (for instance)
SciTech Display Doctor offers univbe for DOS, and has it's own set of drivers for Win9x - but nothing for Win3xx
Hi Steve: Another way you might consider (just an opinion) is to partition hard drive so that C: is Win 98 (or SE) in Fat 16 or 32 (depends on how large a partition you need, less than 2 Gig for Fat 16), then use multiple boot program to pick between 98 & XP Pro on D: (using NTFS format). With a program like Partition Magic or Partition Commander you should be able to boot using a floppy disk to change size & move your current C: (to make it D:) & leave space to create a new C: partition. From there you should be able to use multiple OS boot program to install 98 & re-install XP over current version. By using 98 you should be able to use the standard SVGA or VGA 98 drivers to get more colors, you can use custom install to just put basics needed to run Win 3.1 programs & not worry about network or internet setups.
Hi again Steve: You could also add a hard drive as primary C: & make current drive D:, then you can remove most of the DOS & Win 3.1 directories from D:.
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