Some time ago Weinger start this topic amazing us with LFN, just to remember or add...
Original Message
Name: Wengier
Date: September 21, 2003 at 19:44:04 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
OS: DOS/WIN
CPU/Ram: 256MB
Comment:
Many people think that Windows 3.x File Manager can never support Long File Names(LFN). However, this is NO LONGER true. My Mini-Windows 3.11 release fully supports FAT32/Large hard drives, Long File Names(LFN) and has many other features. It's downloadable from this page:
http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71.htm
Here is a screenshot to show that it DOES support LFN and FAT32(C: is a FAT32 drive):
http://newdos.yginfo.net/upload/win31lfn.jpg
Response Number 1
Name: rrsgg
Date: September 22, 2003 at 00:11:43 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Err, well, sounds good, but has anybody try it? is it safe? I mean, don't get me wrong, but you can be careful with such stuff
Response Number 2
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 22, 2003 at 04:22:33 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Hell, I'll try it. I don't have a problem with Wengier' work or advice.
Response Number 3
Name: Michael
Date: September 22, 2003 at 09:59:01 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Wengier old boy how in the heck did you pull that off?
Good show!
-Michael (Darkehorse)
Response Number 4
Name: Michael
Date: September 22, 2003 at 10:29:41 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Wengier,
I was unable to create the diskette under Windows 2000 and Winimage. Is it safe to assume I need to take this to a Win9X/ME machine to create the diskette?
Thanks,
Michael
Response Number 5
Name: Wengier
Date: September 22, 2003 at 12:05:45 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Although the disk image(MWIN3.IMG) was not created by WinImage, it's fully compatible with Winimage(at least from version 3.x to 6.x). I have just tested it under Windows XP and WinImage 3.0/6.10, and confirmed it works.
P.S:
.IMA = .IMG
.IMZ = .ZIP
(i.e. IMZ/ZIP is the zipped version of IMA/IMG)
Response Number 6
Name: Michael
Date: September 22, 2003 at 13:37:11 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Yeah I just got it to work. It would not work under Windows 2000 at all. I had to go to a windows 95 machine to get it to work. Not sure why I wasn't able to get it to work under 2000 if you were able to get it to work under XP.
I noticed two files that seem to make it work; one was LFNXLAT.386 and the other was FMLFN.DRV. How do these two files work to provide LFN services? I understand that A LFN DOS Driver is loaded and that a line in winfile.ini has to be added, but what else needs to be done?
Thanks,
Michael
Response Number 7
Name: dominicus
Date: September 22, 2003 at 15:01:17 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Hah! you used the 16 bit filemanager from win9x, i just know it..it will support LFN's with a driver...
or maybe it's the long filename support in dos...after all, winfile listens to dos for what to do..and it looks as tho you're using 32bit dos
I'm certainly gonna have a looksee
-dominicus-
Response Number 8
Name: Wengier
Date: September 22, 2003 at 18:14:55 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
dominicus,
>> you used the 16 bit filemanager from win9x, i just know it..it will support LFN's with a driver...
This is NOT true. I didn't use the 16 bit filemanager from Win9x at all. In fact, I used the (almost) original one from Win3.x.
Response Number 9
Name: dominicus
Date: September 22, 2003 at 19:56:42 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
well, thats why i said "or maybe"
Response Number 10
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 23, 2003 at 01:14:39 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Nice job. You come through again.
Skip
Response Number 11
Name: Michael
Date: September 23, 2003 at 06:43:08 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
So how about an install package for regular Windows 3.X users (I.E. not a bootable floppy version).
-Michael
Response Number 12
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 08:33:12 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
ok, I will make a Win3.x FM LFN Add-On for MS-DOS 7.10 Installer(which is available on that page) to patch the regular installed Win3.x on H.D, since it can't be archived without a compatible DOS underneath.
BTW: Win3.x does listen to DOS, but the DOS kernel is still 16-bit if no DPMI/VCPI/DPMS host present.
Response Number 13
Name: bert
Date: September 23, 2003 at 09:51:52 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
i think wengier used the windows nt 3.51 file manager + core files. Let me know if im right wengier :-D
Response Number 14
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 12:33:34 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
bert,
>> i think wengier used the windows nt 3.51 file manager + core files. Let me know if im right wengier :-D
Well, that's not right. the file manager from WinNT 3.51 or Win9x GUI won't work on Win3.x.
Response Number 15
Name: bert
Date: September 23, 2003 at 13:20:34 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
can you please tell us then how you did that ? :-D
Response Number 16
Name: dominicus
Date: September 23, 2003 at 15:37:55 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Well, as i see it, the filemanager in WfW311 and the filemanager in win9x are essentialy the same files..theyre both 16bit, and identical in 99% of the code..i think it's only a matter of access points (obviously, as 9x has different core files)..so...with the right tweaking, it should be possible to get the WfW filemanager to suppport LFN's, as theres been a patch for the 9x winfile to do the same for some time...thing is, till now, absolutely nobody's been able to do it....!
I too would love to be able to get my winfile supporting LFN's..
I've been hesitant with applying dos7.1 only because there seems to be some kind of a permanent swapfile problem (i dont remember specifically what, now)
c'mon bert, you already saw how i got roasted for suggesting the 9x winfile :)... why'd ya have to suggest the nt351 winfile...:)
At any rate, it could never work..the nt winfile is a full32bit pogram that requires the nt shell32.dll (among others)..which is totally , unequivocally, incompatible with the win32s shell32.dll
Response Number 17
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 17:25:40 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> I've been hesitant with applying dos7.1 only because there seems to be some kind of a permanent swapfile problem (i dont remember specifically what, now)
I know you are talking about "direct disk access".
LOCK and UNLOCK are new but useful commands. They are introduced in newer versions of MS-DOS to protect our hard disks.
C:\> LOCK /?
Locks a drive, enabling direct disk access for an application.
LOCK [drive:]
C:\> LOCK C:
WARNING: The LOCK command enables direct disk access by programs that can CORRUPT file names and/or DESTROY disk data, resulting in the loss of files on your disk.
Are you sure (Y/N)?Y
C:\> UNLOCK /?
Unlocks a drive, disabling direct disk access for an application.
UNLOCK [drive:]
C:\> UNLOCK C:
C:\>
If you are creating the Win3.x permanent swapfile, the system needs to access the disk directly, but which is not allowed by the UNLOCK command(which is the default value). So, just use the LOCK command to allow that direct access.
It's ONLY necessary to use the LOCK command when Win3.x creates a permanent swapfile for the first time, but not when Win3.x uses it later, or creates a temporary swapfile.
Response Number 18
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 18:19:14 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
The most important reason they introduce the two new commands(i.e. LOCK and UNLOCK) is to protect the Long File Names(LFN) on the disks. Althought MS-DOS 7.x itself and most of the recent DOS disk tools support LFN, some outdated disk tools designed for older versions of DOS, such as Norton Utilities 8.0 for DOS, don't support LFN at all. Since all LFN-aware DOS disk tools, such as Norton Utilities 2002 for DOS, will lock the disks automatically before a direct disk access, they work with no problems at all. On the other hand, if a disk tool which doesn't support LFN attempts to access the disks directly, then it will be terminated by the MS-DOS 7.x kernel, unless you have already locked the disk manually by using LOCK command. This is quite useful in most cases since this feature decreases the potential risk. Now, even the latest version of FreeDOS(i.e. FreeDOS Kernel 2032) supports disk access lock/unlock as well). Unfortunately, Win3.x(except for the LFN-aware file manager above) is LFN-unaware too while creating a new permanent swapfile by using the direct disk access, so it won't lock the disk automatically in advance. The solution is to use the LOCK command manually instead. BTW: Win3.x will never use the direct disk access except this.
Response Number 19
Name: dominicus
Date: September 23, 2003 at 20:16:49 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
that was it, exactly...you put it succinctly tho...pretty straightforward, so only when i set up the new swapfile, then unlock...
ok, how do i transplant the lfn drivers after into my wfw311?
also, i was under the impression w31 needed some kind of patch to run under dos 71 (some kinda change in io sys or something)
should i transplant this as well?
Response Number 20
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 20:36:39 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> also, i was under the impression w31 needed some kind of patch to run under dos 71 (some kinda change in io sys or something)
should i transplant this as well?
No, you don't need to change or patch anything of the MS-DOS 7.10 downloads on that page as they have already been patched. Also, some garbage codes and LOGO inside IO.SYS have been removed. Therefore, the size of IO.SYS significantly decreased.
Response Number 21
Name: Wengier
Date: September 23, 2003 at 20:43:46 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> so only when i set up the new swapfile, then unlock...
LOCK: enable the direct disk access
UNLOCK: disable the direct disk access
So when you set up a new swapfile, use LOCK, not UNLOCK...
Response Number 22
Name: dominicus
Date: September 24, 2003 at 05:30:02 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Cool! Well, my poorly neglected WfW partition is about to get a facelift! Frankly, since ive been using NT 351 so much, all my filenames are now quite long, and when i recently booted into w31 it was impossible to read any of my filenames in winfile...
thanx a million...
-dominicus-
Response Number 23
Name: Play3r
Date: September 24, 2003 at 06:34:30 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
I think theres a command you can add to one of the .ini files to get long file names Its not 256 but 32 i think
I read it on the MS 3.1 Knowledge base some time back but cant remember what the command is
Response Number 24
Name: Play3r
Date: September 24, 2003 at 06:37:41 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
I forgot to say Wengier great site lots of interesting files
Keep up the good work ;)
Response Number 25
Name: Mick C
Date: September 24, 2003 at 06:51:40 Pacific
Homepage: PowerLoad UK
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
dominicus I agree with what Wengier
says. His MS-DOS 7.10 disks a patched to work with Windows 3.1 The patch 3XSTART is needed for any other 7.10 Bootdisk (Not 7.0 only 7.10) 3XSTART is available on my PowerLoad Site.
The only time you need to worry about permanent swapfile problems is if you are running Windows 3.1 on the same harddrive as Windows 95 onwards. Since newer versions of Windows handles Swopfiles in a differant way.
To use MS-DOS 7.10 as a stanalone OS with Windows 3x running on top is no problem at all once the 3XSTART Patch has been applied, And as Wengier says he has done that for you.
I try and provide patchs for both MS-DOS & Windows 3x on my PowerLoad Site, such as 3XSTART and the Y2K updated Filemanager for 3.1/3.11 & WfWG 3.11 plus others such as Share.Exe which is needed for Word, Excel & Office programs. 'And many more'
Response Number 26
Name: Mick C
Date: September 24, 2003 at 06:54:39 Pacific
Homepage: PowerLoad UK
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Wengier
Have you tried to get LFN Support with MS-DOS Shell yet? Or is that asking to much??
P.S. Tried out the Mini-Windows 3.11 Diskette. Most impressed!
Response Number 27
Name: Wengier
Date: September 24, 2003 at 07:47:11 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> Have you tried to get LFN Support with MS-DOS Shell yet?
Although a LFN-aware MS-DOS Shell does not exist so far, there are many replacements which support LFN, such as Volkov Commander 4.99, Norton Commander 5.5, DOS Navigator 3.7, and Graphics Vision File Manager.
Response Number 28
Name: dominicus
Date: September 24, 2003 at 11:15:15 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
sorry ,wengier , forgot to ask (i'm just the kinda guy who likes to know ahead all the details before doing something) , the dos with the installer , will it replace the dos ive got, or am i gonna have to switch them manually..
a side note..judging by the amount of responses you can see how important LFN is to us 31 diehards!
-dominicus-
Response Number 29
Name: Wengier
Date: September 24, 2003 at 11:26:20 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> the dos with the installer , will it replace the dos ive got, or am i gonna have to switch them manually..
Well, if MS-DOS 7.10 Installer finds that you already have older versions of MS-DOS installed on C:\, then it will give you three choices:
"Upgrade to MS-DOS 7.10" (default)
"Make Multi-boot"
"Don't copy system files"
OR, if MS-DOS 7.10 Installer finds that you already have Windows NT/2K/XP installed, then it will also give you three choices:
"Make Multi-boot" (default)
"Overwrite Boot Sector"
"Don't write Boot Sector"
In most cases, the default choices are the best ones.
Response Number 30
Name: dominicus
Date: September 24, 2003 at 12:05:41 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
thanx...that's my afternoon project..are you gonna have the lfn addon anytime soon...i think i'll just wait for it if so and just install dos 7.1 for now...
you know , this is gonna make you a *very* popular guy :)
Response Number 31
Name: dominicus
Date: September 24, 2003 at 22:49:54 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
...that's one monster batch file there....in that dos installer.whoooa....
Response Number 32
Name: dominicus
Date: September 25, 2003 at 00:08:58 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Frankly, i wasn't sure to post this here , rather than off to your site, wengier, but it occurs to me if i have this glitch, perhaps so others...
after installing the dos 7, and adding the path to the autoexec.bat (integrating my old one into the new one took a wee bit of effort), i seemed to have lost any network "unable to load ms network yadda yadda"...
could this be due to not having made a new swapfile? i had this once before, when i lifted my entire w31 directory to another partition, and never did get to the bottom of it ( the two were clones in every respect).
Have you seen this happen before?
At any rate , i have to install it again...system commander refused to see the new dos and overwrote it with the old one!!
Response Number 33
Name: Michael
Date: September 25, 2003 at 06:35:15 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Let me add one thing. Although the filemanager 'seems' to have LFN support does it really? My experience is that you aren't actually able to manipulate the LFNs, you can only view/navigate through them. In other words, you can't create/rename directories or files with Long File Names, you can only view pre existing LFNs.
-Michael
Response Number 34
Name: Wengier
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:28:12 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
dominicus >> after installing the dos 7, and adding the path to the autoexec.bat (integrating my old one into the new one took a wee bit of effort), i seemed to have lost any network "unable to load ms network yadda yadda"...
I believe that you didn't add some necessary commands(e.g "NET START" or so) into CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT for your special needs. On our computers, there is no such problem at all.
Michael >>In other words, you can't create/rename directories or files with Long File Names.
It seems to be a bug in one LFN provider/translater. It would/might be fixed.
Response Number 35
Name: dominicus
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:28:21 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
i cant say for sure myself, as i'm mostly trying to get my regular wfw partition tweaked with the dos71 and lfn,rather than run the minidisk, and due to a few problems,ive not set it up yet... have run into a few glitches...my experience with 9x addons tho, and, considering that the dos is the same, and the winfile is pretty much identical, is that only in the righthand column of winfile will you be able to make any changes..trying to move or rename files in the lefthand column will give 'file not found ' messages..i cant see why it shouldn't be the same here...
Response Number 36
Name: Wengier
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:34:27 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> system commander refused to see the new dos and overwrote it with the old one!
I have never tested system commander myself, but I have used a lot of its replacements, such as GNU GRUB, WinNT/2K/XP OS Loader, and SysLinux. Nothing wrong happened.
Response Number 37
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:39:27 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
I have same problem as dominicus. After moving c:\windows\net start, I thought I'd have it but still no go.
After work today I'll post my config.sys and autoexec.bat files noting changes I made. I must be missing something simple because 6.22 and Wfw pops up perfectly.
Response Number 38
Name: Wengier
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:41:58 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> I have same problem as dominicus. After moving c:\windows\net start, I thought I'd have it but still no go.
One IMPORTANT question, is IFSHLP.SYS the right one???
Response Number 39
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:52:16 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Probably not...as a matter of fact, I don't remember moving it with net start. I'll be able to check all this in 3 or 4 hours.
Thanks
Response Number 40
Name: Wengier
Date: September 25, 2003 at 08:55:02 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
I have just tested it myself. The conclusion is: YOU MUST USE THE RIGHT IFSHLP.SYS! Otherwise that error message will be shown.
By default, the MS-DOS 7.10 uses the one from Win9x so that it is able to start Win9x GUI. But if you need to start WFW 3.11 GUI(BTW, the normal Win3.x GUI doesn't care about what IFSHLP.SYS you are using) instead of Win9x GUI, then you must use the one from WFW 3.11.
Response Number 41
Name: Alex2002
Date: September 25, 2003 at 11:00:01 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
good advice, I was wondering why my Windows FWG 3.11 wasnt starting on VPC (hung with Blue screen saying Inavlid VXD link or something like that) but since switching to 3.11's IFSHLP.SYS has fixed the problem. Thanks for the info, now I just need to be able to get long file names in Windows like on your Windows mini-disk!
Response Number 42
Name: dominicus
Date: September 25, 2003 at 13:25:40 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Yes, i suspected ifshlp.sys was the culprit too...theres several different sizes in the dos, and the miniwin, etc., but soon as i get a chance , will try the w31 version...
Net start?....never use it..for internet , anyways..(lan, of course)
System commander can be a little too efficient for it's own good, although its a good multiboot system, it tends to do things automatically,and is supposed to recognize a new os install ,unfortunately,because it didn't, it overwrote the dsos71 boot record with the dos 622 one!!not a big problem, really...it was the ifshlp that was the prob...
Just one 'o those days , i guess...
Hope to get a chance later to get it goin'
Response Number 43
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 25, 2003 at 16:00:03 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Thanks Wengier, I home now; I'll get to work on it and post back.
Response Number 44
Name: Wengier
Date: September 26, 2003 at 15:26:19 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
There have already been a lot of add-ons for MS-DOS 7.10 Installer to be used with MS-DOS 7.10, such as many sound cards(both ISA and PCI ones) drivers, multimedia players(MP3 players, for example) and LFN-aware file managers. Most of these add-ons have been included in the MS-DOS 7.10 Installation ISO image, which is available on that page. But we simply don't have enough time to make more at this moment, although it's quite easy to make them...
Response Number 45
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 26, 2003 at 16:42:44 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
You're doing just fine. Got my machine running like I wanted and was greeted by a hdd crash this morning. WTF, a harddrive just won't last over 10 years anymore. I gotta go dumpster/thrift store shopping for another half gig drive.
Response Number 46
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 26, 2003 at 17:29:53 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
BTW, hdd was a drive failure and had nothing to do with 7.10. Hope I didn't alarm anyone.
Skip
Response Number 47
Name: Valerie
Date: September 26, 2003 at 20:49:00 Pacific
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
486DX cpu - 3mb Ram (incl extns) currently running Dos.6.2
Re Dos7.1 - where have I goofed off - I can't even find an installer on dowloaded disk 1 just Dos71_1.zip which, when unzipped, produces Dos71_1.img
Any/all help appreciated.
Response Number 48
Name: Wengier
Date: September 26, 2003 at 21:24:01 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
>> I can't even find an installer on dowloaded disk 1 just Dos71_1.zip which, when unzipped, produces Dos71_1.img
Just now, I have added the following NOTE to that page:
Note: A .IMG file is a standard floppy disk image, which is supported by many DOS/WIN programs, such as HD-COPY, Disk Copy Plus, WinImage, VMWare, Virtual PC, and many more. By the way, .IMA(called by WinImage), .FLP(called by VMWare) and .VFD(called by Virtual PC) are just renamed versions of the .IMG format.
OR, if you want, you can download the CD ISO image instead of the floppy IMG image.
Response Number 49
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 26, 2003 at 22:29:57 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
I used WinImage to extract the files. You can d/l the shareware version @:
http://www.winimage.com/download.htm
Response Number 50
Name: Mick C
Date: September 27, 2003 at 09:55:47 Pacific
Homepage: PowerLoad UK
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Wengier It maybe a good idea to add a fileid.diz or readme.txt file to zip package to ensure that people get the message.
I also posted full instructions on how to use my 'Bootdisk Project' Zipped Img files, only to still get messages becouse users were accessing the downloads direct and not even looking at the web page!
I was asked why zip them in the first place? To create a maximum compressed file for download seemed like a good reason to me!
All the best,
Mick C
Response Number 51
Name: Wengier
Date: September 27, 2003 at 11:47:06 Pacific
Homepage: China DOS Union
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Mick C,
Good idea. Now done!
Response Number 52
Name: SkipCox
Date: September 27, 2003 at 18:51:16 Pacific
Homepage: HomePage
Subject: Win31 File Manager DOES support LFN
Reply:
Mick, you guys give this stuff away already...perhaps you should hand deliver it too. And, install and configure it while you're there.
