When this computer is turned on we get the message - "Error loading operating system" I have a floppy that allows me to get into DOS, I can get to the C: prompt (although from there when I type "Dir" I get an error. I can copy files from a floppy to the C drive, however when I try to reload Win 3.1 it says it cannot load to that directory (or any other directory I put in). I don't really care if the computer ever boots again, but he has an entire year worth of business information in Microsoft Works on the computer. I cannot seem to get to the files to copy them. I can't get into the works directory (not sure what the command might be even).

Is there any way to get any of it back?

"when I type "Dir" I get an error"

What's the actual error message?

What version of DOS are you booting to from the floppy? If you're unsure, enter:

ver

to find out.

DOS is the actual Operating System (not Win31) so possibly the problem lies there, or else there could be disk errors. It would be advisable to run Scandisk or other disk scanner to check for errors - first though, you should go to the CMOS setup and ensure that the hard drive is correctly identified there.

Any idea what version of DOS was originally installed on the hard drive itself?

"when I try to reload Win 3.1 it says it cannot load to that directory "

I'm not sure what you mean - are you attempting to reinstall Windows? What is the *exact* error message?

Depending on what is wrong, you can very likely add the drive as a slave to another computer and salvage what's needed - although we could explore setting things right in its current location - need a bit more info though

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The dos prompt you see when you boot with the floppy is only the dos on the floppy itself, so actually, it's not the dos on the harddrive...
It appears that the computer recognizes the harddrive (because you can change to the C:> prompt) but it's behaving like it's not formatted..this can happen if you're using a dos bootdisk and the drive is formatted in Fat32 (which it could be if it had win95B or later on it before), or if it had Win NT (with the NTFS file system) before.A dos 6x boot floppy can only see a fat16 harddrive (they are always smaller than 2 gigs and usually would have had the Windows 31/Dos combination on them.
If a drive wasn't recognized or was improperly connected, you'd get the 'hard disk failure' message instead and wouldn't be able to switch to C: at all..
You might want to try using a win98 bootdisk, that can recognize fat32, if the harddrive is fat32, then you'll be able to access your files no problem..
If you know, or have any way to find out for sure what version of windows was on there before, , it might help if you post it here.
You can get a dos 7.10 bootdisk that will be able to see a Fat32 Harddrive, on this page (link below)..make sure to read the instructions on how to decompress them..

http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/bootdisk.htm

Obviously, i think i believe you think i said what you want to believe, but i think you didn't believe what i think i really said...

Ok guys - Back with better details.

I can get into the setup utility by pushing F2, but can't really do anything from there.

I can boot to a DOS prompt using the the DOS floppies (version 6.0). It brings up a setup screen. If I push enter (to "setup and replace you current version of DOS") it says: "Setup cannot install MS-DOS 6 on your computer. An error was detected while formatting your primary hard disk partition. Press enter to exit Setup"

When I push enter it takes me to the A:\ prompt. From there I can change to the C:\ prompt. If I type DIR it lists the files (20 files, 63044 bytes) then says "Invalid media type reading drive C Abort, Retry, Fail?"

Anything else I type at the C: prompt says its an invalid directory or that it has "Too many Parameters"

I just want the data back!

Another side note - the disks I was using before to get into DOS were the actual DOS setup disks. If I try a WIN 98 boot disk (from another computer that I have) it says "Starting Windows 98" and brings up the A:\ prompt. If I try to switch to the C drive from there it says its an invalid drive specification...

Well you don't really want to be running DOS6 setup to "setup and replace you current version of DOS" do you??

It sounds very much like the drive has errors - possibly serious ones - Scandisk would be a good idea, but ONLY if the drive is correctly identified in the CMOS/BIOS - otherwise it will find tons of "errors" and (worse) "correct" them - making a total mess.

"Anything else I type at the C: prompt says its an invalid directory or that it has "Too many Parameters"

Specifics would help. As a rule, don't type random commands if you are unfamiliar with DOS or its syntax - could have unpleasant consequences

It would be nice to know the original installed DOS version - try entering

dir c:\command.com

and report the file's time & date.

Was Win31 previously installed and running?

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When I type dir c:\command.com it returns:

Volume in drive C has no label
Directory of C:\

Command COM 52925 03-10-93 6:00 a
1 files(s) 52925

Invalid media type readin drive C
abort, retry, fail?

Windows 3.1 was loaded and working right up through last Saturday when it was turned on and had the "error loading operating system" message

I'm not sure how to check the CMOS/BIOS, or run scandisk.

By "anything else" I meant that I had tried cd:\msworks and a couple of the other files listed to open the folders.

I think the DOS disks that I have are the ones that were with the computer when he got it (although I'm not positive).

Thanks!

Ok - well it would seem that DOS6 is the original OS, so that's something.

When you boot the computer, there may be onscreen instructions on how to enter the CMOS setup - 'del' is the commonest, but yours could be different.

See here

If the drive shows correctly in the CMOS, then (hopefully) you would be able to run scandisk from the DOS6 bootdisk, if present. If not, then scandisk will be on the 98 disk - with whichever disk, you'd boot to a: and enter

scandisk c:

I'm assuming this is an older machine? If so, you may have to select 'autodetect hard drive' from the CMOS to ensure that the drive is properly detected.

It's possible that the drive has sustained damage or is failing, if none of the above help - recovery might be problematic in that case.

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Okay - F2 got me into setup where it is set to auto detect the harddrive. If I type scandisk C: at the A:\ prompt it tells me its a bad command or file name...

Ok - you're booting from which floppy? Try the Win98 one, it should have the scandisk program on the disk.

This is a Pentium processor? 486, 386? It might be helpful to have an idea of the age of your computer. Was there any info listed for your hard drive in the CMOS, such as size or capacity?

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Looks like its 486. I'm not sure exactly how old the computer is... It says Memory is 640K, but has no information under the hard drive section.

I was using the DOS disk, but I get the same message with the WIN 98 one... It won't even let me change directories with that one... Does it matter that I made it from an existing computer? Should I download one from somewhere instead?

Hmm - my reply went somewhere else (just not here)

Ok - scandisk.exe can copied over from a Win95 or 98 machine to the floppy, if available.

Or - you can download a file to create a bootdisk here - run the file to create the bootdisk. I think even the DOS ones have scandisk.

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And I run it by typing

scandisk c:

???

It says "ScanDisk cannot examine drive C."

PS - I can't even get to the C: prompt with this boot disk... Only with the disks that have DOS 6.0 setup on them.........

Oh -sorry - yes, that's right, after booting from the floppy, enter

scandisk c:

I explained a lot of this is the post I made to nowhere ; )

If you're getting 'invalid media' messages on a drive that contains data, and the CMOS is seeing the hard drive properly, it may be beyond scandisk's abilities to repair.

Another (normally) harmless fix is to enter

fdisk /mbr

from the floppy, but you'd want to use the same DOS version as is installed on the drive. This can cause problems however, in some situations - if a drive overlay has been installed, or if this is a multiboot system.

Drive overlay might be a possibility on an older machine, which is why it's good to know hard drive size and class of machine.

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Any chance of taking it (the harddrive) out of this computer and installing it in another to get the data?

How do I know if it is being detected properly? It is set to auto in the CMOS, but does that always work?

When I use the DOS setup disks to get to the A: prompt I can then switch to the C drive (probably useless information)

It can be a bit variable, but on some machines the 'auto' setting won't show the drive parameters. Generally it works, and this was probably the way it was originally set, so I think we can rule that out as a possibility (which is too bad)

Yes, you can very probably slave the drive to another machine and attempt file recovery from there - you'd be booting with that machine's OS, and your old drive would be assigned a letter.

but

it sounds like there is a problem with the disk structure, which would not change in another machine. Were you able to run scandisk?

When you enter 'dir' (or dir/w) are there any directories shown, or anything else beyond the 20 files, before you get the 'invalid media' message?

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Oh, I see - I must've skipped a few of your messages.

The bootdisk should take you to the "A:" prompt, not C: - right now C: is problematic

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It does boot to A: however if I boot to that using the DOS setup disks, I am able to change to C: The 20 "files" look like about 17 of them are directories (one of which is MSWORKS which is what I'm trying to get the info out of!)

Maybe my best bet is to try yanking it and making it a slave drive? Is there someplace I can see instructions for that? I think I can handle it, but don't want to take a chance of messing it up...

PS - Thanks for all the help so far - Your awesome!

Well, not much actual progress, but it's usually best to try and narrow down the possibilities.

The 'invalid media' message suggests maybe a problem with the media descriptor byte, which might be corrected with the fdisk /mbr command - just hesitant to recommend that in case there is an overlay involved.

Otherwise, it may be a more serious problem - the disk might be failing. Not much would be resolved by putting the drive in another machine, although you wouldn't need to use a bootdisk any longer, and it may make working with it somewhat easier.

Bit of a guide on installing hard drives here - there are a couple of methods, depending on the setup of the target machine.

Scandisk is useful, but there are some better disk utilities (non M$) around

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Not obvious why 98 will not read C but 6.0 will.

As jboy saya, caurion is the watchword.

I would get a 6.0 boot disk.

NOT 6.0 install.

You were lucky the 6.0 install failed.

When booted on 6.0 boot disk, do NOT attempt to change to C:

Do this:

dir C:\

If one of the directories is MSWORKS, do this:

dir C:\MSWORKS

You may see the files of interest or they may be in another directory.

But if you get this far, you're close to saving what you need.

M2

I downloaded a DOS 6.0 disk, but it won't boot - It says its an "invalid system disk"

If I boot from a Windows 95 or 98 disk that I have and type

dir C:

it says its an invalid drive specification...

PS - when I did the same thing after starting with the DOS 6.0 setup disks and exiting setup to the A:\ prompt instead of trying to run setup, it displays the directories (MSWORKS being one of them) but then says

Invalid media type reading drive C
Abort, Retry, Fail

I don't know if this is helpful info or not, but when the computer is starting up it says:

CL-GD5442/5424/5426/5428 VGA BIOS Version 1.30
Copyright...

Phoenix 80486 ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10.03
Copyright...

640K Base memory; 3072KB Extended Memory

Hi Melissa,

Does your 6.0 install disk have SCANDISK or CHKDSK?

Type"

scandisk c:
[enter]

chkdsk c:
[enter]

If not, after booting on the 6.0 install disk, stay at the A: prompt and insert the 6.0 boot disk and try again.

Note that either scandisk or chkdsk may help. But if they fail, there may be no going back.

I still prefer putiing this HD in another box to save the MSWORKS files.

M2

I'm willing to try that - Have another computer right here - Its windows 98 - Is that ok?

When I run scandisk it says "ScanDisk cannot examine drive C. I don't seem to have chkdsk. Will try moving the harddrive

It appears that I missed a step somewhere - When the other drive is plugged in it looks like it is being detected as the Master - It gives me the same "error loading operating system" message

Hi Melissa,

You need to put the problem drive as slave.

M2

I realize that - just having trouble remembering how.

Hi Melissa,

If the mainboard has two IDE controllers, just put the good drive on primary and the bad drive on secondary.

If only one, you need to jumper the good one as master and the bad one as slave.

For now, leave CDROM/other drives disconnected. Makes things easier.

M2

I thought thats what I had done... I opened up my desktop (which is working running windows 98) and plugged in the other drive... Should I swap the cables? My harddrive on my working computer woulddn't be plugged in as a slave drive should it?

Hi - back again.

Yes, it really does seem as if this disk is seriously messed up. Typically the 'invalid media' message indicates an unformatted drive - but that does not seem to be the case, since you are able to show directory listings.

'Invalid drive' usually means drive failure or else incorrect settings for the drive in the CMOS.

It's also possible that there may be a problem with the drive cable or else the drive controller on the motherboard.

CL-GD5442... indicates you have a Cirrus Logic vidcard, and the rest tell us that it's a 486 with about 4Mb of RAM - about enough to run Win31 tolerably well.

The files downloaded from bootdisk.com are not themselves bootable, but must be executed in order to create the actual bootdisk.

Slaving the drive to a 98 machine might make things easier. You can connect it as the Primary Slave on the same cable as the c: drive on the 98 machine - then you would set its jumpers as 'slave'. Otherwise, you would set it up on the 2nd controller, either as Secondary Master or Secondary Slave, and set the drive jumpers accordingly (master or slave)

Check your private message area at MyComputing.Net

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Hi Melissa,

Last question first.

If the working drive was the ONLY drive, it wouldn't matter much how it was jumpered or cabled.

But don't guess. You nay cause new problems.

With the problem drive OUT, boot and watch the POST [white text on black] screen and it will tell you how things are set.

M2

Ok - I know I am seeming like a real dummy here, but is there a place on the drive itself to set it as the slave, or is just the cables that I hook into it? The plug that I am plugging in is into the bad drive is in the middle of the cable with another plug on the end of the cable that is plugged into my good drive - Is that right?

I have rebooted a couple of times - The post screen doesn't come up on this computer. It goes from a Hewltt Packard screen to a microsoft windows 98 screen to a black screen with a flashing cursor and then directly to the login...

If I go into setup - it says that the Maxtor 32049H2-(PM) 1 is the master drive

Was the posted link in response #20 helpful?

It sounds like you are connecting the old drive as the primary slave, so you would want to set its jumpers to 'slave' - there should be a jumper diagram on the drive itself. If correctly connected (and still functioning), the drive will show in the CMOS - not much will happen if it doesn't.

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I am getting ready to run it now - I can't seem to find the jumper diagram :-(

I am at a screen that tells me to selec drives and partitions. My choices are

the floppy

Drive 0 Primary/Master AND

Part 1 16-bit FAT >32MB

Under that it says
"DOS C: Undetermined Format

What do I choose?

Choose?

Nothing to choose really, but I'm getting a bit confused.

You've added your old drive to the Win98 machine, on the same cable that its hard drive is on?

The Win98 machine will (should) continue to boot to Windows 98 - the C: drive in that machine will remain 'C:'. The slave drive from the old machine will be assigned a drive letter such as D: or E:, depending.

If there is no jumper diagram for the old drive, then we will have to find one - it won't work as a slave unless the jumpers are set properly. You'd need to report the make & model number of that drive.

Your other choice would be to plug it into the secondary drive controller as 'master' - which would probably not involve any jumper changes - although this is likely where yur CD drive is plugged into

If everything is connected right and running, the CMOS will see both drives - you shouldn't have to select anything, on newer (pentium class) machines this is pretty much automatic.

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Sorry - I was being an idiot - Its running now.

The drive is a Quantum ProDrive ELS

Melissa,

Have you got it running with both drives in the newer box?

Booted on w98?

Seeing both drives?

Seeing MSWORKS?

M2

No - I need to figure out how to get the bad drive on as a slave - Right now it keeps trying to boot from it.

Melissa,

I think you have two IDE cables.

If so, put the good drive on primary and the bad drive on secondary.

Leave the CDROM out of it.

That way you won't need to mess with jumpers.

M2

Right, that's the thing - the only way to make it work without resetting the jumpers would be to connect it on the secondary channel as 'master'

Can you be more specific about the model number? There's quite a range of Quantum ProDrive ELS.

Did find this for one model:

A SLAVE drive in a two drive configuration: Remove any jumpers across DS, SP or CS

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jboy,

Glad you're in here.

I went to bed a couple hours ago and couldn'y sleep wondering about this one

I have a sinking felling that the bad drive is doublespaced with 6.0 which would account for why it was seen booted on the 6.0 install disk and not the 98 boot disk.

Melissa said dhe made a 6.0 boot disk but that it would not work.

BTW, with the bad drive on secondary by itself, would the jumpers matter?

M2

If I unhook my one of the CD ROM's and use those cables the drive is deteced - It shows in the CMOS as "Secondary Master"

However when I click on it it says "

D:\ Not accessible

Hi Melissa,

So far so good.

Leave the drives cabled like they are.

You said earlier that you'd made a DOS 6.0 boot disk but that it wouls not boot.

What file did you download?

Full name, with extension?

Can you put that floppy in and do:

dir a:\
[enter]

M2

Once again I was a moron - I hadn't executed the file after I downloaded it. I believe that it will boot from that floppy now.

Hi Melissa,

Make the 6.0 boot floppy.

Leave the drives as they are and try to boot off the 6.0 boot floppy.

then:

dir d:\
[enter]

M2

It returns the message:

Invalid Drive Specification

Hi Melissa,

My mistake.

Because DOS 6 will not see a 98 FAT32, do this:

dir c:\
[enter]

M2

Yes, you'd better believe jumpers matter

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jboy,

I thought it would go down the line

pri mast
pri slave
sec mast
sec slave

and boot the first active DOS partition it found.

M2

If I type dir c:\ I get

Invalid media type reading drive C
Abort, Retry, Fail?

There are numbers on several stickers on the hard drive they are:

88HD953 A01

AP328814505

166307980725 M

9331803
3

170AT PII6A361 REV 08-A

Hi Melissa,

OK, you're doing great.

Now you have a strategic decision to make.

Let's see if the 6.0 boot floppy has two things.

Do this:

dir fdisk*
[enter]

dir chkdsk*
[enter]

Wait for jboy to jump back in. He's better at this than me.

M2

Both of those commands return files.

Hi Melissa,

Do this:

dir h:\
[enter]

M2

Still Invalid Drive Specification

When I am in windows it showed it as D:\ drive.

Right, a Quantum 170AT

there should be a jumper block marked 'JP1' with a double row of pins - you want to remove any jumpers (if present from DS CS SP

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Hi Melissa,

The reason the old drive is C: when booted on DOS 6.0 is that it can't see the w98 drive.

Booted in w98 it can see both, so the old drive is d:.

I'm not sure what the next step should be.

I'm hoping jboy will tell us.

If you do a chkdsk, it may fix what's wrong or it may shut you out of any chance of recovering files.

jboy?

M2

Ok - Jumper off - now I restart in windows?

In order for any chance of success, it's best to pursue one avenue at a time.

Hopefully, we are connecting the Quantum as Primary Slave on the Win98 machine.

That drive has to be jumpered as 'slave' - basically, take the jumper off of the master setting on 'JP1' as per the diagram.

Once this has been done (again, hopefully) the drive will show in the CMOS/BIOS and we're away to the races.

There is no need to be using a bootdisk at this point - the idea is to boot from the Win98 drive.

After all of that, there is no guarantee of success, as I'm thinking the drive is far gone - but at least we may know where we stand.

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jboy,

She's got it booting on 98 but the old drive is D:

See #47

Do you not think the old drive is doublespaced?

M2

Ok - Its in as the Primary Slave (now my CDRW isn't working in my computer, but I think I can fix that). My computer will load windows 98 now.

Next step?

Aw crap

I hate these $%@#^ marathon posts

Ok - that's good then

Drive compression isn't necessarily indicated - don't forget, this is the drive that returned 'invalid media' when setup in its original home.

Mellissa - run The Spinrite program now, either from a floppy or copy it over to the C: drive, and test drive D:

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Ah, I see now that #39 was a question regarding spinrite.

Ok - as should be apparent by now - things need to be spelled out to be understood. We have to 'imagine' what's going on at any given moment (with varying degrees of success)

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Was wrong - Only will boot in safe mode...

Sorry for taking up your weekend :-( I'm an accountant, so I'd take the *&^% thing to someone else if we didn't live in the sticks where there IS no one else. Oh well. Sounds like we're down to do or die anyhow.

So do I run the Sprinrite again?

Yes - see if it can tell you what's wrong with the drive. I'm not too hopefull, but it's quite a bit more thorough than scandisk

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I don't see that there are any errors reported.

It checked the slave drive and found no errors?

The interface is a little weird to use at first - you'd want to choose 'recover unreadable data' and then make sure you've chosen the correct drive.

Are you now able to access files on the drive without error messages?

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I did "recover unreadable data" - Checked the slave drive, and don't see any reported errors... It says that it completed successfully, however I still cannot get into the drive... I still get the message

D:\ not accessible

A device attached to the system is not functioning properly

That is decidedly odd.

Reboot the system to DOS - tap F8 about the time you see 'starting Windows' to get the menu and see if you can access the drive

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It says:
Invalid media type reading drive D
Abort, Retry, Fail

I'm really thinking that this drive is in bad shape - recovery of files may not be possible (by normal means)

That's the kind of message you would see from an unformatted disk.

Run fdisk, select option (5) and then 2 to change drives, then choose option (4) to display partition information.

Does it say FAT16 under 'System' or else is it 'Non DOS'?

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How do I run FDISK?

Got it - Under system it just says "Unknown"

Status - a

Type - Pri DOS

Mbytes - 163

Usage - 100%

Ok - well, you would think that it was an unformatted drive, and not one that contains data.

Not sure what else to try. You might want to put it back in the old machine, boot from a floppy and try the fdisk /mbr command. A drive that size (170 Mb) wouldn't have an overlay installed, so no worries on that account.

Sorry it's taken us so long to get.. not too far. If fdisk /mbr won't cure anything, that may well be it for the data (the importance of backups cannot be overemphasized).

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So I type

Fdisk/mbr

at the a: prompt?

I know - I told him, but I told ya so is a little late now. Thanks so much for all of your efforts. Your amazingly patient and wonderful. I'll let you know if that works!

Yes, that would be it. Some like to have a space:

fdisk /mbr

.. but I believe it works either way.

FWIW - I've never ever encountered a drive problem quite like this (not in eleven years).

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if you formatted it, it would be ready to go (wouldn't do much for the data on it though)

I do have a data recovery disk that might be helpful, if all else fails.

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I did Fdisk/mbr - It appeared to run, brought me back to the A:

From there I tried dir C: which returned

Invalid Media type reading drive C

I also tried changing to the C: prompt (which it let me do) and typing DIR which gave me the same "Invalid Media type reading drive C" error

Oh, sure, you won't get any confirmation from running the /mbr command.

Yeah - I just don't know. Unless there was some freaky low level software installed like GoBack or a boot manager etc, can't really explain

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So he's SOL huh?

Has anyone ever used the GetDataBack product?

It may not be easy, depending.

I haven't used much - haven't had too many 'accidents' - at least, none where there was any hope of recovery.

If you want to put your email address in the Computing.Net field, or else PM it to me, I can send you a disk I've used (just have to make an image of it).

In that case, you'd want to put the drive back in the 98 machine in order to have somewhere to restore the files "to"

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Your a doll - thanks!

Ok - file sent, hope that it helps.

You really rolled up your sleeves for this one, the majority of problems you'll encounter aren't likely to be quite so tricky.

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Hi,
My 2 cents worth. Has been my experience in newer computers with this type drive that even though it shows up as detected in the post it is unreadable unless you set the drive parameters manually in the bios setup.
Settings for that drive PRODRIVE 170 170 MB CLY-968 HEADS-10 SECTORS-34 PRECOMP-65535 LANDING ZONE-968.
Try setting those manually with it in the 98 machine and you might be able to save your files.
Good Luck
James

SORRY I copied the wrong setting for the ELS Drive they should be
PRODRIVE ELS 170 170MB CLY-1011 HEADS-15 SECTORS-22 PRECOMP-65535 LANDING ZONE-1011
My APOLOGIES.
James