The notes that come with the 3xStart fix say that programs using share.exe won't run, including Word 6. Is that right? Is anyone running Office 4.x with this setup?

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Andrew: I have DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11. I'd like to give DOS 7.1 a try. What files do I need, and how can I install it over 6.22?

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andrew ordo, do you know if ms-dos 7.1 will run windows 3.1 if you format the hard drive using fat16 without the patch? thanks for the info , I was one of the ones that used to say "you cannot run win 3.1 on ms-dos 7.1"

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Let me get this straight. Format and install Dos 7.01 and with fat32. Put the win311 install files onto a directory on the HD. Overlay a patch file and it will directly install as 32fat?? Or must you first set it up as a fat16, finish installation and then convert over to fat32 ???? Before I put in a lot of software and have to start over again !!!

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hmmmmm, it works?? I have Windows 98SE here and I tried getting Windows 3.1 to run on it, but no such luck... I'm booting right to the command prompt.. It comes up with some odd error message: You started your computer with a version of MS-DOS incompatible with this version of Windows. Insert a startup diskette matching this version of windows and then restart. The system has halted. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart your system.

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Well I have it working now. You DO need to patch io.sys! I just did that and was able to start Windows 3.1, no problem. Thanks to Beamer for posting the link to w3xstart! I had been looking for a patch or something for a while now, but haven't had any luck until now. From what I understand, Microsoft "fixed" DOS in Win98 so that Windows 3.1 wouldn't run under it. Why? I have no idea... Maybe because they're evil?? lol So appearently that report was true. I have no idea how everyone else is getting Windows 3.1 to run under DOS in Win98, but I know that I needed the patch here. And Andrew was incorrect in this case. This patch patches the DOS io.sys file to disable the "win 3.1 lock" Microsoft put into DOS 7.1, it doesn't seem to do anything to Windows 3.1 itself.

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Windows 3.1 WILL NOT work under WinDOS 7.1 even if you use FAT16. It is a hard coding in IO,SYS that is the problem. The patch fixes this only. However I am told if you format & sys a drive with a Windows 98 bootdisk and never install Windows it may bypass this problem. (I have not tested this myself)powerloads patch does work however. To Muncher To convert a drive to FAT32 you run FDISK and say YES to 'Large Disk Support' If you say NO you get FAT16 WARNING - You do this first BEfore you install ANYTHING as it wipes your drive clean.

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Okay... This is getting rather odd. Note: If you want to skip all the boring reading and get right to the apology section, just skip to the bottom of the post. The post is long, but I wanted to include some relevant information in case anyone wants to figure out why some people can run Windows 3.x on top of MS-DOS 7.1 (without patches) and some people can't. I have re-read everyone's posts and done some additional research. Apparently, Microsoft did indeed add a line of code to MS-DOS 7.1's IO.SYS, beginning with Windows 95 version 4.00.950B (Windows 95 OSR2/ Windows 95B) that prevents MS-DOS 7.1 from running Windows 3.1. This is news to me. For about three or four years, I have been running Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on top of the DOS bundled with Windows 98 Second Edition (an OEM version, probably from Compaq or Dell, but possibly from another OEM) and I have never had any problems or had to use any patches. I don't know why it works without any updates or patches, but it most definitely does. Here's the installation procedure I followed: 1. I installed MS-DOS 6.22 2. I installed Windows for Workgroups 3.11 to a subdirectory off the root called "\WFW" 3. I installed Windows 98 Second Edition to a subdirectory off the root called "\Win98", keeping the file system FAT16, replacing (renaming) the MS-DOS 6.22 IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, and COMMAND.COM files with the 7.1 versions and left my Windows for Workgroups installation intact. 4. I edited MSDOS.SYS (now the 7.1 version) to prevent DOS 7.1 from automatically launching Windows 98 Second Edition 5. I created two batch files, WFW.BAT and WIN98.BAT just to save a little typing while launching either version of Windows from the command prompt. NOTE: I also installed Windows NT 4.0. I created boot sector files that allow me to boot MS-DOS 6.22 (the old DOS), MS-DOS 7.1 (the new DOS), Windows NT. Basically, I added MS-DOS 6.22, MS-DOS 7.1, Windows NT 4.0, and a few other operating systems to the NT boot menu. I could boot MS-DOS 6.22 and run Windows for Workgroups 3.11 as expected with no problem. I could also boot MS-DOS 7.1 and run either Windows for Workgroups 3.11 OR Windows 98 Second Edition with no problem. I never applied the 3xStart.exe update or applied any patch to MS-DOS 7.1's IO.SYS. I never had any problem at all running Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (unpatched) on top of MS-DOS 7.1 (unpatched). Again, it actually seemed to run slightly better, although I had no real way of measuring any increase in performance or stability. It did seem more stable, though. I have done this on two systems and a friend of mine has done this as well and gotten exactly the same results I got. However, I provided all the software he used and he followed my procedure. I have absolutely no idea why this works if it isn't supposed to, and apparently it isn't. Here's a few additional bits of information: * I have only done this with Windows for Workgroups 3.11, not Windows 3.1. * In every case, I have used the exact same copy of Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and Windows 98 Second Edition. * Neither the copy of Windows for Workgroups 3.11 nor Windows 98 Second Edition are retail releases. They are both OEM versions. I have no idea what the hell is going on here. Obviously, one of the following must be true: 1. Either the line of code Microsoft added to IO.SYS in MS-DOS 7.1 does not block Windows for Workgroups 3.11 in general or it does not block certain versions or releases of Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (or possibly certain versions or releases of Windows 3.1). 2. Certain releases of MS-DOS 7.1 do not have this line added to IO.SYS. I am certain I am not the only one who has been able to run earlier versions of Windows on top of MS-DOS 7.1. Other people have apparently done it without patching or updating anything. I would never have said this would work if I hadn't personally done it myself and I have. I had absolutely no idea that what I've been doing for years is supposedly impossible. In light of recent information I've come across regarding Microsoft's transparent, deliberate attempt to prevent people from running Windows 3.1 by modifying IO.SYS, I offer my sincerest and humblest apologies to everyone. I was convinced that everyone who claimed that MS-DOS 7.1 wouldn't run Windows 3.1 was full of s---, had no idea what they were talking about, and obviously hadn't even tried it themselves. I was convinced of this because I had tried it and it worked perfectly for me. I tend to believe things I have personally witnessed rather than claims posted on the 'net, and surely I am not wrong for this. However, I failed to consider that BOTH sides could be correct (as is apparently the case here) and I have said a lot of things I should not have said. I am definitely in the wrong for that. About the Win3xStart patch: I was completely, utterly WRONG. I came across this file a year or two ago on an FTP server that contained almost exclusively official updates from Microsoft. In fact, I don't recall seeing anything else that wasn't from Microsoft except for a version of Acrobat Reader from Adobe. The documentation provided for Win3xStart stated that it was an update from Microsoft that updated Windows 3.x, allowing it to support FAT32. I remember thinking that it was odd that Microsoft would do such a thing, since providing new capabilities to older products is terribly uncharacteristic of them, but I assumed that Win3xStart, like practically everything else on the page, was in fact an update from Microsoft. I also assumed the description, which described it as an update that added FAT32 support to Win 3.x was correct. I never used Win3xStart because I don't use FAT32 and therefore saw no need to apply the "update". Also, I did not suspect that DOS 7.1 needed patching for Windows 3.1 to run--I had been running it for years without patching anything! It was a tremendous mistake on my part to make these assumptions. Had I merely read the documentation provided in the archive, I would have known that Win3xStart is NOT from Microsoft, that it is NOT an update--it is actually a patch/hack, that it does more than add FAT32 support to Win 3.x, and that it DOES patch DOS, modifying the IO.SYS file to allow Windows 3.1 to run. For years, I have been lashing out at people who made statements to the effect that MS-DOS 7.1 wouldn't run Windows 3.1. Since it worked for me, I assumed they were just passing on some myth they'd heard or read somewhere and never tried it themselves. I owe a lot of people apologies. My apologies to WWWebster and anyone else I've insulted, ridiculed, and otherwise attacked. I am at a loss to explain why my configuration works (and this apparently works for a few other people as well), but obviously you were completely correct.

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I think you are correct in saying Windows for Workgroups 3.11 will work with WinDOS 7.1 (Notice I do not call it MS-DOS as it is not 100% compatable with 6x which is my DOS benchmark) BUT NOT Windows 3.1 or Windows 3.11 (Not Workgroups) Odd! As a matter of interest powerload also offers a 'DOS Real Mode' patch for Windows ME which I beleave replaces the Windows version of IO.SYS with the version found on the ME Emergancy Bootdisk (But thats a new story!) Find them both at at : http://www.powerload.fsnet.co.uk/win9x.htm ...

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> I think you are correct in saying > Windows for Workgroups 3.11 will > work with WinDOS 7.1 ... BUT NOT > Windows 3.1 or Windows 3.11 (Not > Workgroups) Odd! I am beginning to suspect that this may be the case. This seems like a likely theory. Hopefully, if I can somehow manage to find the time, I may try to test this. Again, my apologies for posting inaccurate and in some cases, completely false, misleading information. I made some assumptions based on my own observations and acted rather rudely on them.

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Okay, I've installed WFW 3.11 onto another Win98 box here, and it doesn't work either. So there goes the theory that 3.11 works without the patch. I'm at a loss to explain why Andrew's setup works. It has to be one of his theories. >1. Either the line of code Microsoft >added to IO.SYS in MS-DOS 7.1 >does not block Windows for >Workgroups 3.11 in general or it >does not block certain versions >or releases of Windows for Workgroups >3.11 (or possibly certain versions >or releases of Windows 3.1). That could be. Maybe your copy of WFW 3.11 is a tad "different", different enough so that the anti-win31 code in io.sys doesn't block it. >2. Certain releases of MS-DOS 7.1 do >not have this line added to IO.SYS. I think this may be the most possible explination. Either way, whatever going on over there is a fluke. If you have other versions of 98 or Win 3.1/3.11 (wfw & non), you might try testing different combinations of the two, and see what works and doesn't. It's definitely a very interesting situation you have there...

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Hey don't apologize... It's obviously not as simple as ANYONE thought it would be. I just thought the patch was to get windows 3.X working under MS DOS 7.X. The only thing we do know at this point is that some flavors of Windows 3.X will run under MS DOS 7.X, and it is INCORRECT to assume that "Windows 3.X will NOT run under MS DOS 7.X under any circumstances". It would be great to narrow this down and post it somewhere though. What I have done in the past is this: Install Windows 3.X under a MS DOS 7.X installation, reboot. Retry windows, if it doesnt work (incorrect version error), apply the patch and then it has worked. Otherwise it has worked from the beginning. I have even gone so far as to patch a Windows 98 boot disk with the 3xstart patch and use it to boot my PC when I wanted to run 3.X (so I wouldn't have to patch the actual hard drive, useful when you don't have MS-DOS as the DOS on your boot drive). Just my $.02, -Michael

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Well I tried the same thing last night and found the same mixed results. Here is what I used and got !!!!! Pulled Dos from 98SE OEM 4.10.2222 and installed on a 486/intel overdrive and 32mb ram. This booted up fine and ran a ram drive. Installed 3.11 WFWG OEM with a packing slip date of October 1997, installed to the ram drive, It installed. I did not reboot but went to dos on completion. Went into ram drive and the program ran. Copied ram drive to a c:\ramback directory and then rebooted. Rebooted with a autoexec.bat file that copies the 3.11 from backuped directory back to ram drive. Went into ram drive to call win. The system comes back and says it is the wrong ver. of dos. But it ran before the reboot and it had been booted on dos 7 before the installation of 3.11. I was formatted on c: with the dos 7 and fat32. Go figure this all out!!!

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Would someone please e-mail me a PATCHED io.sys file from their Dos 7.01?? I want to over lay my existing file. I have the drive all set up under win98 Dos 7.01 fat32 and 3.11 WFWG but can't run the patch exe file since it says it must be run from windows and I can't run windows since it is not patched yet !! HELP !! ray127 @ pactel.ws

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You may need to use PKUNZIP to unpack the patch file(3XSTART.EXE).And then it works under DOS.

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Thanks, got it. Big Dummy Me.

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DR-DOS 7.03 has support for fat32. I think it can be downloaded from (www.lineo.com) and is a 32 bit OS and provides support for Windows 3.1. it has a DOS based web browser etc. etc. in case anyone is interested..

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You need to go to Lineo FTP Site for DR-DOS Downloads: ftp://ftp.lineo.com/pub/drdos/ You will find updated 7.02 files here, including a Dr-DOS version of SHARE.exe here: ftp://ftp.lineo.com/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/updates/ However I could not find the FAT32 Update! Since it is not included in the download. It seems to have been removed. Location Please? ...

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Found It! DR-DOS FAT32 Driver Download: http://www.drdos.net/files/fat32.zip More DR-DOS Downloads at: http://www.drdos.net/download.htm (Easy DR-DOS Download) http://www.drdos.net/tools.htm ...

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FWIW, I run WfW 3.11 on DOS 7.10 (98SE). Yes, I installed the patch. No, I never tried it without. Things run generally well for me. (CentaurHauls Cyrix C3 500MHz, 128MB RAM, integrated i810 video, PC Speaker driver, 7 HDD partitions on 3 drives [6 are >= 2GB]) cjh: From my experience, it seems that nothing requiring share.exe works correctly. Been looking for a workaround for a while, but no luck. And (unlike some people I've come across) I've had no luck with the newer vshare.386. I wish DR-DOS didn't keep eating my SCSI drives... *sigh* Anyone tried FreeDOS and WfW 3.11 yet? How'd it work? BTW, I have a hard time with permanent swap files with my setup. Anyone figure out how to keep them from corrupting themselves yet? Or is it just me with this problem?

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