Name: Jim Carmel Date: May 24, 2007 at 16:23:44 Pacific Subject: 2 win 3.1 errors OS: 3.1 CPU/Ram: p2 128m Model/Manufacturer: ?
Comment:
On one computer I am getting a insufficient memory error, when I try to open an application. I want to say this comp has 128k of memory P2, the old one ran this same app. was a 386 only had 64k??? The other computer is a 386, it just decided to come up with a invalid vxd call to device 0010 service 8001, I dont even know what that is. both windows for workgroups, dos 6.2.2
Well I got the one computer fixed, the block device driver line had a semi colon in it for some odd reason. The memory issue on the other computer is still a problem. I did a fresh install and still get the not enough memory error. It has 128k in it, and it is good memory,I'm still at a loss, and if your wondering the software I'm using can't be run on 95 or higher. I'm looking at about 40k for that software so I'd rather not go that way..lol
[boot.description] mouse.drv=Microsoft, or IBM PS/2 language.dll=English (American) system.drv=MS-DOS System codepage=437 woafont.fon=English (437) aspect=100,96,96 display.drv=VGA keyboard.typ=Enhanced 101 or 102 key US and Non US keyboards network.drv=Microsoft Windows Network (version 3.11) secondnet.drv=No Additional Network Installed
All these 'Out of memory' errors might be caused by conventional memory (below 640 kb) shortage. Normally, MEMMAKER increases the free conventional memory but I think you've got some pretty messed up lines in your CONFIG.SYS, I'd change BUFFERS=80 to something like BUFFERS=10 since SmartDrv is also doing the disk cache, and I'd also change FILES=135 to FILES=80(depending on how many files you open at once. Honestly, I myself use 40) Notice that network (in win 3.11) can also consume a lot of conventional memory (via NET START command). If you don't use networking I sugest you to uninstall it. You might also consider reading http://www.i24.com/en/win31/tips/w31mm_en.htm#n_gen_arb_sp
In fact, this appears to be Windows for Workgroups, so Networking isn't really a concern, memory-wise, as it's a transient command which uses nothing in DOS
'Plain' old Win31 relies on the DOS drivers, which aren't exactly frugal in memory consumption - they are conspicuous in their absence here, and not a factor
As noted, something of a mess - - in order for Win3xx to hope to run properly, the DOS needs to be properly configured
While it may not be a DOS memory issue, it's not difficut to determine what's being used and how much is left, via the DOS command
mem/c/p
(close Windows first, for best results)
You have many pointless entries - and running scandisk upon each and every startup seems rather excessive
You have duplicate smartdrv lines - - try removing one. (fwiw, smartdrv is less relevant in WfW)
You have "REM'd" out lines - - they serve no purpose
"SET MOUSE=C:\MOUSE" seems unnecessary, but doesn't cause much trouble - however you would benefit from loading the mouse driver 'high' (you use that feature elsewhere) as in:
LH C:\MOUSE\MOUSE
As Alex mentions, your various files and buffers etc settings are far beyond your probable needs
"This is all gibberish to me"
Well, as written, much of it is to anyone - - who's the author of this misfortune?
btw, it's AUTOEXEC.BAT & CONFIG.SYS (names are important)
Assuming you have M$-DOS 6xx, try using the included 'Help' program - it demystifies much
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an interpreter.
jboy: In my VirtualPC VM used to, but I should have noticed the LoadRMDrivers=No in system.ini... If this line is set to yes (some drivers do that by default, like the ones I'm using in VPC) it consumes conventional memory just like in Windows 3.11
Santa: I think that is unnecessary since, unlike in later versions of Windows, it is very easy to control what programs and drivers start automatically with MS-DOS and WfW 3.11. Well edited startup files would make that system as good as new
mountain: I'd remove all lines that begin with REM from your AUTOEXEC.BAT, so it would be easier for you to read and edit. Btw, doesn't this computer have a CD-ROM drive (it is weird to think of a P2 with 128MB ram without one)?
You're allowed to edit your posts now y'know - - a great feature (if you use it)
At any rate, we're talking about REAL machines, not (pansy) virtual boxes - - C:\WINDOWS\NET START is not a DOS resident command, as you can readily determine with the aforementioned mem/c/p
Regardless, it's not a given that this even is a DOS memory issue - although it does seem like the OP has undertaken the 'standard' disappearing act
ol' mountain maybe should focus his attention elsewhere - might start by ceasing to screw up that 'scanreg' advice you've been so keen on posting in the 9x forum
Despite claims to the contrary, posts arenot routinely removed from Computing.Net
Jboy, whats the OP that you said has taken a disappearing act? It is WFW 3.1.1 Dos 6.2.2 It does have a cd rom I just unplugged it thinking it was stealing something it wasnt supposed to.
I did what everyone suggested so far with still no luck.
Could it be my Odetics software that cant run on a Pentium computer?? I'm just grabbing at straws, thanks for all the help everyone.
I think that jboy was referring to you as the OP (original poster). As he was waiting for a reply, he assumed that you had disappeared. Looks like everyone thinks that you have a conventional memory problem. If you would take jboy’s suggestion and run the following command at a MS-DOS prompt, it would be more than helpful for the ones trying to help you with your problem.
mem /c/p
This will show the amount of free conventional memory. Hopefully, it will be about 612 or something close to that. It will also show how much is being used in upper memory (such as smartdrv, etc.). Please give us a number!
What is the Odetics program? I noticed in post # 7, (under the Network section) that the name of your workgroup is called Odetics. Windows for Workgroups has network support. I have connected it to a Windows NT 4.0 computer.
Just a couple of questions? I noticed on your “config.sys” file and on your “autoexec.bat” file that in several places that you have reference to MS-DOS in a “DOS1" directory. So, is this correct, the MS-DOS director is “DOS1" or do you have several typos in the these two files? If you do in fact have a DOS1 directory, I would suggest that you change (rename) it back to the standard name of “DOS” and edit your config.sys and autoexec.bat files to use C:\DOS instead of C:\DOS1.
Why are you using “HIGHSCAN I=B000=B7FF WIN=B500-B7FF WIN=F300-F7FF” in your config.sys file? What would happen if you would delete this?
Also, in the “system.ini” file, under {386Enh}, you have reference to “DEVICE=C:\DOS\VFINTD.386." This would not work if MS-DOS was in the “DOS1" directory. Also, under the same section in the system.ini file, the second item, you have “emmexclude=E000-EFF.” Do you know why this is needed?
The following is from the Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for Windows, user’s guide, page 115:
NOTE: If you are using EMM386, you need to exclude the base memory address area by using th x= parameter on the Device=emm386 line in your CONFIG.SYS file. For example, if your network card uses the address C800, the device=emm386 line in you CONFIG.SYS file would look like this:
device=emm386.exe x=c800-ceff
For more information, see your Windows or Windows for Workgroups User’s Guide. If you use 386Max, QEMM, or another expanded-memory provider, see the documentation that comes with it to see whether you need to exclude this area.
If you are not using an expanded-memory provider and have a network card that required a base memory address, you can exclude the base memory address by using the EMMExclude= line in the {386Enh} section of your SYSTEM.INI file. For example, if your network card uses the address C800, add the following line to the {386Enh} section of your SYSTEM.ini file:
Hi Coffee Break, As far as why things are in the lines of those certain files I have no idea. When It comes to DOS I am totally lost.The Odetics program on this computer runs on a Thin net network ( 50 ohm cable ) it connects to a Virtual Recorder and lets you record and play out video, with out it I cant add or play out video.I can connect to the other VR's on the network. I did the mem / c/p and got this.
conventional= 655,360 free= 545,840 upper= 138,096 free= 37,456 reserved= 393,216 free= 0 extended= 14,541,968 free= 12,206,080 under 1MB 793,456 free= 583,296 largest .exe program 545,648 largest free upper mem blk. 37,264 MSDOS resides in high memory.
As far as the DOS1 I again have no idea why its there and even if it should be I just got thrown on this and told to fix it.
I'm not tyin to be a smartass to anyone I'm just highly DOS stupid.
HI CoffeeBreak, Bear with me PLs,,lol. I deleted the DOS1 directory it only had 68 files in it, the DOS directory had I think 210 files. I also took out from HIGHSCAN on in the config.sys file. And everywhere there was a DOS1 I changed it to DOS. Also changed buffersto 30,0 and files to 50. The convetional memory use is MSDOS,HIMEM,EMM386,COMMAND,REDIR,DOSKEY.
Still the same error, memmaker still said the 545,840, it didnt change anything.
545 KB should be enough for Windows 3.11, but it might be a buggyy driver taking consuming conventional memory more than it should. Also, it might be that the computer has MORE memory than the program expects, like IE5's intaller. For more conventional memory, put "REM " (whithout quotes) in the beggining the line that loads C:\MOUSE\MOUSE, some drivers (specially later MS versions) can take up quite some memory.
So you actually had two DOS directories. One called “DOS1" that had about 68 files and another called “DOS” that had about 210 files in it. Then you deleted the directory called “DOS1", this brings up the question, what version of MS-DOS are you left with? At a MS-DOS C prompt, type “ver” (without quotes), then enter. What version do you have?
You indicated that “DOSKEY” was using conventional memory. However, in post #8, it has the following line in your autoexec.bat file:
LH/L1,6384 C:\DOS\DOSKEY/INSERT
This line indicates that DOSKEY is loaded in upper memory.
Do you understand the difference between a MS-DOS C prompt and a MS-DOS window’s command prompt? I noticed in Post #8, the last two lines in the autoexec.bat file are:
pause WIN
So when you start up the computer, it will run the config.sys and autoexec.bat files up to the “pause” command. Your computer will say something like “Press any Key to Continue.” When you do, it will go directly to Windows. Are you using the icon “MS-DOS Prompt” under Windows to run “memmaker?” If so, this is not the place. Exit Windows and you will be left with a blinking C:\. This is what I call a MS-DOS C prompt. This is where you want to run “mem /c/p”, “memmaker”, and most other DOS work. You do understand that “mem” and “memmaker” are two different commands? Mem shows how memory is being used and memmaker tries to increase the amount of conventional memory. It does not appear to me that memmaker is working on your system.
Finally, would you please tell us how much memory is be used by category for convention memory and for upper memory? For example, MSDOS 18,861, HIMEM 1,104, etc?
Hi CofeeBreak, Yes all this I am doing under C: prompt, not Windows DOS prompt. I was running memmaker under c: prompt, not Windows DOS. This is what Mem/c/p shows me PROG. CONVENTIONAL UPP. DOS 18,589 0 HIMEM 1168 0 EMM386 4144 0 COMMAND 2928 0 REDIR 80,800 14,496 IFSHLP 0 3904 SMARTDRV 0 29,024 PROTMAN 0 400 NE2000 0 9440 NDISHLP 0 1440 NETBEUI 0 37,792 DOSKEY 0 4144 FREE 547,600 37,456
I put in another 64k memory chip in it, now at boot up it reads 128(something) for memory But it still didnt help running the programs Thanks again for all the help Jim
Thanks for the information on conventional and upper memory. The following is a summary:
Your Conventional Memory: MSDOS 18,589 HIMEN 1,168 EMM386 4,144 COMMAND 2,928 REDIR 80,800 FREE 547,600 Total 655,229 Per 655,360 (Post # 19)
Your Upper Memory: REDIR 14,496 IFSHLP 3,904 SMARTDRV 29,024 PROTMAN 400 NE2000 9,440 NETBEUI 37,792 DOSKEY 4,144 FREE 37,456 Total 136,656 Per 138,096 (Post # 19)
I need to find out what the REDIR (80,800) used in conventional memory is all about. Was not expecting this? I will see if I can hook up a computer in the basement that was WFG3.11 that has network support. It has been about 12 years since I have messed with that Windows system, so stay with me, but it will not be today.
Looking at the system.ini, [Network] section, does anyone know of a better setting on the last three items?
I was able to start up the old computer that had WFWG3.11 on it. Then I printed out the system.ini file so I could compare it to the one that you posted.
First, you need to determine which protocols you are using. In the Main Group, Control Panel, choose the Windows Setup icon. Then, from the Options menu, choose Change Network Settings. Then, in the Network Setup dialog box, choose Drivers. The Network Drivers dialog box appears, displaying your current setting: My computer had the following, which I assume are the default:
Microsoft NetBEUI IPX/SPX Compatible Transport with NetBIOS
If Windows has not automatically installed these protocols on your computer, you can use the Add Protocol...button to correct the problem. Before you leave the Network Drivers dialog box, you need to confirm that NetBEUI is configured as the default protocol. If it’s not, select NetBEUI from the Network Drivers list and click the Set as Default Protocol button. If you have more protocols, than two, why and which ones?
My computer did not have the REDIR using 80,800 under conventional memory. I check this under both DOS and Windows. In fact, it was not using any amount!
I am looking under the [Network] section of your system.ini file. I noticed that line two and line seven are the same thing. I would suggest that you delete line seven. Also, under the same section, lines 12-19 all has the “;” thing so that they will not load. My system.ini file did not have these items, either with or without the “;” thing. Also, the last six lines are partly a duplication of part of the lines 12-19 thing. How about deleting the last six lines? Then you can remove the “;” if you want the computer to read them. I would suggest that you not try to load the three lines and see what happens (PreferredRddir=FULL, AutoStart=FULL, and WinShare=C:\Windows). My computer did not need them. Notice the wording in one “Redir,” same as the 80,800 used in conventional memory.
Are you sure that network card (adapter) been configured?
Looking in post # 12 - LoadRMDrivers=No under [Network drivers], has it been changed to =Yes? If so, change it back, or at least my system.ini file says “No.”
Hmmmm, intrestingly I tried all of the above with the same amount of luck,lol, none. My Network does work on this computer. Can WFW work on a PIII computer, I'm about ready to bring in my shotgun. What does it mean on a reboot if it doesnt show the WFW screen and just goes to the desktop?
I was sure hoping that we might have found something to help the conventional memory problem. I have taken your config.sys and autoexec.bat files and modified them somewhat using some of the lines from my old computer’s config.sys and autoexec.bat files. I tried the modified files on a bootable floppy disk and they worked fine. They also get the conventional memory to about 610K. My old files also other things like CD support, mouse support, SET BLASTER, SET SOUND, etc.
C:\WINDOWS\net start @ECHO OFF PROMPT $P$G LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X 2048 128 LH C:\DOS\DOSKEY /INSERT PATH C:\DOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\ODETICS SET TEMP=C:\TEMP SET COMSPEC=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM REM WIN
You can see from the above that you will not need to use “memmaker” program as I have used the devicehigh and LH at the start of some lines. I have “REM” out the last line (WIN) in the autoexec.bat file. If you need to go to Windows, just type “WIN” at the DOS C:\ prompt. Then later (when everything is working correctly in DOS), you can remove the “REM.”
To check out your new config.sys and autoexec.bat files, you can hit “F-8" when you see the Starting MS-DOS message when you first boot up the computer. This will let you confirm each line in the two files. If problems, the computer will tell you. With or without the F-8, you should see a message after the “net start” command is loaded. It will say something like “The command completed successfully”. I don’t know where the “COMMAND.COM” reference came from. Might have been from Dell when I purchased the computer in the mid ninety. Might or might not be needed. I don’t know why you are not getting the Windows logo at re-book. Sounds like some kind of a problem might be starting. Have you run the “scandisk” program on your hard drive? You may have the start of some bad clusters. I would certainly do a surface scan.
Is odetics in some sort of a start up file in WFWG3.11 and running all the time?
Finally, it appears to me that if you only had MS-DOS6.22 installed on the hard drive and used the above config.sys and autoexec.bat files, you would get over 600K in conventional memory. The F-8 would tell you about the two Windows files being missing or something (WINDOWS\net start and WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS). But that would not reduce the amount of conventional memory.
Will look into the question about a P-III and WFWG3.11. I may have another computer in the closet that has this. Will have to hook it up to see.
Whether you are referring to the old name for a 386 (P3) or a Pentium 3 (assumed), I can personally confirm that WFW works well on both. In fact, you would practically have to hit the Pause key to see the WFW 3.11 logo since it would fly by so fast on my P III. :)
Granted, I was using DOS 7.1 from Windows 95 OSR2 to run WFW (after patching the IO.SYS). My choice of DOS version is mainly due to the fact that MS-DOS 6.22 is limited to 64 MB of RAM and 2 GB partitions. As long as the underlying DOS can run on your PC, I do not see any reason why WFW would not run on such hardware. Even P4s < 2.1 GHz should be able to run WFW.
The hard part is hunting down all the proper drivers, though. I gave up trying to get sound working on my P III under WFW, but I did get decent video (24-bit color, 85 Hz refresh rate in most resolutions, perfect for web browsing.)
The following is from Inside Microsoft Windows: Networking Edition, November 1996 publication:
AutoStart and PreferredRedir
The AutoStart setting determines which Real-mode components the NET START Command loads. Although NET START loads only NetBind by default, you can add other components by manually editing the AutoStart setting—-just separate component values with commas.
The PreferredRedir setting indicates whether NET START loads the full set of Real-mode network drivers or the basic set. If you don’t include the Basic or Full value in AutoStart, you can use PreferredRedir to specify what type of redirector support you want to employ.
Setting: AutoStart
Purpose: List Real-mode components that load when the NET START command executes
Value: c1 C2...Cx; NetBind (Don’t know how to type the values, were listed like a small 1, 2 or x., centered like a period or footnote)?
Setting: PreferredRedir
Purpose: Determines which Real-mode network drivers load when the NET START command executes.
Value: Basic;Full
- - - - -
I am again looking at your [Network] section under your system.ini file. I do not have the last three lines (PreferredRedir=FULL, AutoStart=Full, and WinShare). From the above, it looks like Full is not a value for AutoStart=.
If that does not help, try other combinations. The publication did not list the WinShare thing.
Are you using Novell NetWare network type? Do not understand why you should have to edit the system.ini file to change PreferredRedir from Full to Basic, etc. Looks like their should have been something to check or uncheck when the network was set up.
So the autoexec.bat loads NET START and you are loading something different than my computer with you system.ini file. This might be your problem.
I may have found the problem with your conventional memory. Would you post a copy of your protocol.ini file? This would be located in the C:\Windows directory. I need to check some settings.
I am stilling trying to figure out exactly what you have set up on your network. On post # 31, I asked the question “If you have more protocols, than two, why and which ones?” Answer on 32, “My Network does work on this computer.” Then, on post # 35, I asked the question “Are you using Novell NetWare network type?” I did not see an answer. The reason I am asking is that in your system.ini, under the [NWNBLINK], it has one line, “LANABASE=1." I assume that the NW part of NWNBLINK stands for NetWare. Then again, maybe not.
- - - - - -
The [NWNBlink] section contains just one setting, in the form
lanabase=LANA number
This setting identifies the LANA number to which the NWNBlink NetBIOS protocol is assigned. You define or change this setting when you install the IPX/SPX Compatible Transport with NetBIOS or the IPX Support Driver (Monolithic) with NetBIOS transport. (Inside Microsoft Windows Networking Edition, Dec 1996 edition)
- - - - - -
So, I need the exact way that you set up the network. Double-click the Network Setup icon in the Network window. Should see a box “Network setup?” From there, you can go to “Networks”, “Sharing”, and “Drivers.” Open the Network section. What is check? I have the button “Install Microsoft Windows Network” and “No addition network.” If the ”No additional network” is not checked, what is on the next line? Novell NetWare (Workstation Shell 3.x or what?
Is the button “Install Windows support for the following network only” checked? If so, what is installed?
If you have more settings for Network Setup than I described in post # 31, delete them. Your compute will probably need to be restarted. If you delete and restart, it may rewrite some lines in the system.ini and protocol.ini file. Anyway, in the system.ini file, under section [NWNBLINK], please change “LANABASE=1" to “LANABASE=0." Then in your protocol.ini file, under section [NETBEUI], please change “LANABASE=0" to “LANABASE=1". Also, in the protocol.ini file, please change the following:
[NWLINK]
BINDINGS=MS$NE2CLONE
to
[NWLINK] BINDINGS=MS$NE2CLONE EVEN_PACKETS=0
Not sure why you had the blank line after the heading. Will the program read it? Also, leave a blank line before the next section???
I have read that for basic troubleshooting, if you are having trouble with network setup resources, you could try the following:
1. Exit WFWG
2. Rename PROTOCOL.INI in the \WINDOWS directory to PROTOCOL.BAK.
3 Start WFWG again, using the WIN /N command which prevents networking from loading.
4. Open the Network Setup dialog box either through Windows Setup or Network Setup in the Network Group.
5. Click the Networks....button and remove all networking support.
6. Click OK in every resulting dialog box until you see the prompt to restart. Then click Continue.
7. Re-open the Network Setup dialog box and re-enter the network items that you need. When you get to the prompt to restart the computer, this time choose Restart.
This should rewrite part of you system.ini file and all of the pROTOCOL.INI file. I have never tried this however.
What did you do about the following from post # 31? “I am looking under the [Network] section of your system.ini file. I noticed that line two and line seven are the same thing. I would suggest that you delete line seven. Also, under the same section, lines 12-19 all has the “:” thing so that they will not load. My system.ini file did not have these items, either with or without the “:” thing. Also, the last six lines are partly a duplication of part of the lines 12-19 thing. How about deleting the last six lines? Then you can remove the “;” if you want the computer to read them. I would suggest that you not try to load the three lines and see what happens (PreferredRddir=FULL, AutoStart=FULL, and WinShare=C:\Windows). My computer did not need them. Notice the wording in one “Redir,” same as the 80,800 used in conventional memory.”
I still don’t think you need line 12-19 or the last six lines.
Hi Coffee, Sorry for the delay, everything else decided to break. I did delete those last 6 lines in the system.ini file. the only other thing in the network section other that ipx/spx, and netbeui, is NE2000 compatible/NDIS2/NDIS3. I tried to change those protocol, and system items you wanted me to, but now it wont let me edit the files, it comes up wit ha bad command error
I think that the name assigned to your Network Adapter (Card) is NE2000 [NDIS2/NDIS3]. Then under it are the two drivers, Microsoft NetBEUI and IPX/SPX Compatible Transport with NetBIOS. These drivers also appear in the Network Setup window.
If you would take a blank floppy disk and at a MS-DOS prompt, type
format a: /s
it would make the floppy bootable.
Then boot from the newly created floppy.
If you would type the command at the A: DOS prompt
edit C:\config.sys
it would say something like “Bad command or file name.”
Then, if you would type the command at the A: DOS prompt
copy C:\DOS\edit.com A:
it should copy the “edit.com” file to the floppy disk.
Then, if you would type the command at the A: DOS prompt
edit C:\config.sys
it would say something like “Can not find file QBASIC.EXE”
Then, if you would type the command at the A: DOS prompt
copy C:\DOS\qbasic.exe A:
it should copy the “qbasic.exe” file to the floppy disk.
Then, if you would type the command at the A: DOS prompt
edit C:\config.sys
it should bring up the config.sys file so that you could edit it if needed.
Do you remember post # 24, two DOS directories? I do not know how you received the “Bad command or file name”, but it raises the question. Does your present DOS directory have the two files “EDIT.COM” and "QBASIC.exe”? If not, you could find another computer that has DOS6.22 and copy them to a floppy and then copy them to you DOS directory. This version of DOS should have the files dated 5-31-94. If you have the two files, please tell me how you received the message.
HI Coffee, Sorry I'm a DOS retard. It will let me go in and edit the config.sys file. staying in the c: directory it will call up the system.ini, and protocol.ini, but nothing is in the window. If I CD to windows thats when it comes up with Bad Command error, when I try to edit those INI files.
will work. You have to show the location on the file you want to edit. If you typed “edit coffee.blk” at a DOS prompt, it would open a window called “coffee.blk.” However, it would be a blank window. This allows to create a file “coffee.blk” if it does not exist at the current location.
At a C:\ prompt, you could also type “CD windows” (without the quotes) and this would change to director. Then the command “edit system.ini” would allow you to edit a file called system.ini in a Windows directory. Is this what you are doing?
Would please tell me about the PATH line in your autoexec.bat file?. Does it read as follows:
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