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Micheal Jackson may have walked free from his earlier pedophilia arrests, but he ain't walking away from his latest arrest (cardiac arrest).
Please let us know if you found someone's advice to be helpful.
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I don't know about some of you, but I did not find MJ's passing humorous. He's got loved ones, just as we do & they deserve more than his derision at this arguably difficult time.
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I was never a big MJ fan, although I will admit he was talented. I have to agree with Jam on the karma thing and SkipFox on not being able to watch tv for awhile. The media sucks when it comes to this type of thing. They Beat It to death and then raise it up and Beat It again. MJ had Major isuues and none of us will ever know what they were. Look at the self mutilation and the Neverland ranch. A child hood missed, perhaps. Once again goes to show ya, money and fame don't equal happiness.
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Boy have we had overkill here in Australia. We have had virtually 24 hours non stop of MJ... bugger the state of the economy, the rotten governments both State and Federal, world politics or anything else... MJ is dead so lets have repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat ad lib!
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I never was an MJ fan. I mentioned karma in my other response because I believe "you reap what you sow". However, in all these years of watching him self-destruct, not a single person stepped in to help...at least not in the way he really needed it. He surrounded himself with "enablers". They enabled him to abuse children (allegedly), mutilate himself with plastic surgery, abuse drugs (allegedly), etc. All the enablers were worried about was getting a paycheck...very few, if any, cared about MJ the person. I think we all saw it coming - his demise was inevitable. And even though many of us saw it coming & were not surprised, it did NOT have to end this way. If only ONE person had had the balls to slap him upside the head & knock some sense into him, maybe I wouldn't be typing this right now. But NOOOOOOOOO, all anyone was concerned about was getting their check & not offending "the gloved one". Ultimately, I guess MJ is responsible for his actions but as the old saying goes, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". Will anyone be prosecuted for enabling him to become the freak that he was? Probably not. Will there be a slew of articles, books, documentaries, etc on "how I tried to help MJ"...you betcha. Even in death, the enablers will continue cashing in on the MJ name. Pathetic. They too will get what's coming to them.
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jam:
You said, " Will anyone be prosecuted for enabling him to become the freak that he was?" and I have to disagree with the idea of anybody enabling him and making him what he was.
He most definitely was a freak, but I don't believe anybody else "enabled" him to become one. You are or you aren't.
You are a pedophile or you're not.....nobody enables you and 'makes' you pedophile.
You hold a baby over a balcony or you don't..........nobody enables you to make a choice like that.
I do believe MJ had many and various issues....most, if not all, mental. As to the root cause of them, I don't know and to be honest, I really don't care.
I suspect the endless cosmetic surgeries were an expression of a deep mental illness and self loathing.
But the thought of someone being charged with 'enablling' him is just taking it too far. He, like everyone else in this world, had the ability to make decisions and I feel quite confident he made decisions...........I doubt anybody else made them for him or held a gun to his head to force him to do some of the freaky things he did.
Even in death, the enablers will continue cashing in on the MJ name
I think you're wrong. I think the greedy will try to cash in on his name and past. I think those looking to make a quick buck will line up like they do for any other thing they think they can make an "easy" dollar off of. Are they enablers, maybe some of them. But I'd wager more aren't than are.
Pathetic.
Indeed!
They too will get what's coming to them.
One can always hope this is the case. I know I hope so! People who line up to make a buck off of someone elses death/pain/tragedy/sad life store, etc, are just about the worst kind of parasites.
However, in all these years of watching him self-destruct, not a single person stepped in to help...at least not in the way he really needed it.
Have you ever tried to step in and stop someone from doing something self destructive? If you honestly believe others enabled MJ to become what he was then you can never have done so.
20+ years back several family members and a few of my close friends tried to step in and stop me from self destructive behaviour. They were all very concerned about my drinking and drugging. They all saw where I was heading and some even begged and pleaded with me to stop. All to no avail, because I wasn't buying what they were selling......you see, I didn't have a problem.......but they all sure did!
In fact, my best friend in the whole world whom I've know all my life (I don't remember ever not knowing him) tried and tried and tried and tried to get me to stop. In the end he told me to stay away from him. At the time my response was "Fine F U!" But I know now he couldn't stand to see me self destructing and HATED how helpless he was to stop me. (If anybody's interested, we're still friends to this day although we were out of touch for about 2 years after that "talk". It took me that long to realize what I was and start getting better. After about a year of sobriety, I moved back to my home town and we picked right up where we left off friendship-wise and have never looked back and have been closer than blood brothers for well over 40 years).
It wasn't until I woke up, realized, and hardest of all accepted that, yes, I did indeed have a problem, that I was able to start healing. Unlike so many others, I was able to eventually get off and stay off the things that were killing me that I thought made me feel better. But I had to do it. ME! Nobody else could. You've likely heard the adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink" This is so true. I had to get sober and then examine myself and figure out what was driving me to self destruct and then change those things in order to stay sober and alive. Nobody else could do any of that for me.
Just like nobody was able to make me stop, nobody "enabled" me to become the alcoholic I am.
Did anybody try to stop MJ? I'd bet cash money he had immediate family who tried. Did he listen, well, his face shows how much success anybody had in stopping him.
Could anyone have stopped MJ? Simply put, no. He was the only person who could have.
Did anybody else "enable" him and thus cause him to become what he became........no.
Will I miss him, no. Will I mourn his passing, no. Having been through what I've been through in my own life I have a certain amount of empathy and understanding for his situation and that's about the best I can do.
I had never meant to say anything about MJ's death but I had to respond to this because I don't believe anybody else was at fault for what MJ became.
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"But the thought of someone being charged with 'enablling' him is just taking it too far. He, like everyone else in this world, had the ability to make decisions and I feel quite confident he made decisions...........I doubt anybody else made them for him or held a gun to his head to force him to do some of the freaky things he did."
For someone who is not a young adult, you seem to have rigid way of looking at things or life in general. In my line of work, enablers are real & just as guilty if not more culpable than the enabled.
A good example is the pedophilia comment. If a kid or immature young adult goes out of their way or ends up in a bad situation as a result of naivete or bad judgment or complete lack of judgment, do we condemn or not reach out to the individual or not go after the enabler or more appropriately the abuser because as you contend, "[He/She,] like everyone else in this world, had the ability to make decisions and I feel quite confident [he/she] made decisions...........I doubt anybody else made them for [him/her] or held a gun to [his/her] head..."
Even in enforcement, a lot of things aren't black & white, was MJ an abnormal person? Without a doubt he was. Could he have a lead a normal life based on his upbringing or circumstances? Maybe, maybe not ... who knows. But it appears, he had a troubled youth, I guess, I take that back -- he never had one & thus never grew up. People in his situation, as jam hinted, are quite susceptible to manipulation because they are too naive & out of touch with reality. I mean how many "pedophiles" go on national TV to say they enjoy sharing their bed with children & would do it over & over again? Only a very dumb one, that's for sure.
I couldn't help but feel really sorry for the guy when I watched his infamous Nightline exclusive. It doesn't take a genius to figure out, how one can exploit a relationship or access to someone like that for millions of dollars. We do not live in a Utopian society. Everyone is out to make a good buck, but many will cut corners if the opportunity presented itself & some others will absolutely not, even if confronted with an opportunity of a lifetime. It all depends on the individual, their convictions & what drives them philosophically. I do not know if he did what he was alleged to have done, but still feel he could have paid the second accuser off like he did the first unless he was advised not to this time around & why take the chance unless his people knew he was going to walk.
I guess a bunch of tell-all book with will clarify mysteries like that & more. Maybe we'll also get a glimpse of why the heck he had to resort to excessive cosmetic surgery to enhance his appearance. I can only guess, that despite his success, he still felt grossly inadequate or perhaps trying to measure up to a standard he had conjured up (in his mind) that would be good enough for society. Only a troubled or delusional individual IMHO conceptualizes or even goes as far as undergoing that many procedures where he's gone from a nice black kid to a badly deformed mannequin.
I gotta tell you though, the presumption that people around him were going above & beyond to help him is highly doubtful, considering, they had more to lose if he acted normal & everything to gain if he's sequestered & kept delusional. This is human nature for you!
As far as missing or mourning his death, it has very little to do with showing respect for the dead. I won't miss you if you died tomorrow, but will show my respect if I hear of such news. But certainly, not by stating good riddance to the drunken or drug-abusing degenerate. My take is, he has loved ones that will miss & mourn him whether we do or don't, especially his young kids.
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A good example is the pedophilia comment. If a kid or immature young adult goes out of their way or ends up in a bad situation as a result of naivete or bad judgment or complete lack of judgment, do we condemn or not reach out to the individual or not go after the enabler or more appropriately the abuser because as you contend, "[He/She,] like everyone else in this world, had the ability to make decisions and I feel quite confident [he/she] made decisions...........I doubt anybody else made them for [him/her] or held a gun to [his/her] head..."
Ok, this is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the abuser.......not the victim.
What I'm saying is, I don't believe anybody enables the abuser and either makes them a pedophile, or helps them to become one. You either are or you aren't.
For example myself. I'm not a pedophile. There's nothing anybody on the face of this earth could do to make me become one.
I've never said enabler's aren't real. Heck, I used to party with a bunch of them. They were the first people to disappear out of my life when I got sober. They didn't make me a drunk, they just liked being around when I was buying the booze and were more than willing to help me drink it. What I'm saying is, when it comes down to brass tacks, nobody can "enable" you into becoming something you're not. Or at least, I don't believe so. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think so.
But it appears, he had a troubled youth, I guess, I take that back -- he never had one & thus never grew up.
I agree, he may not have ever had much of a childhood. He certainly didn't have a "normal" one. I know, I remember watching the Jackson 5 on TV when I was a kid. MJ himself was only 4 years older than I am.
People in his situation, as jam hinted, are quite susceptible to manipulation because they are too naive & out of touch with reality. I mean how many "pedophiles" go on national TV to say they enjoy sharing their bed with children & would do it over & over again? Only a very dumb one, that for sure.
A percentage of people in that situation I'm sure are. But, once they become an adult I would hope they could get control of their own lives. Many many many young child stars end up in ruins because of the pressures associated with stardom and too much money too young. I won't even begin to go through that list. But could someone manipulate a "normal" person into a pedophile. I don't think so.
As for pedophiles going on TV and saying they think it's ok to sleep with little boys. Ever heard of NAMBLA? I recall flipping channels one day and one of those raggy talk shows was on TV and right there on national TV sat a NAMBLA member who expounded on how he thought 10 year old boys could make a decision about having sex with a grown man. So apparently there are at least some of those types who are willing to do that.
I gotta tell you though, the presumption that people around him were going above & beyond to help him is highly doubtful, considering, they had more to lose if he acted normal & everything to gain if he's sequestered & kept delusional. This is human nature for you!
Apparently you didn't understand what I said so I'm going to copy and paste it for you below. Compare what I actually said to what you're saying I 'presumed' and then tell me if those two statements match up.
[quote]
Did anybody try to stop MJ? I'd bet cash money he had immediate family who tried.
[end quote]
As far as missing or mourning his death, it has very little to do with showing respect for the dead. I won't miss you if you died tomorrow, but will show my respect if I hear of such news. But certainly, not by stating good riddance to the drunken or drug-abusing degenerate. My take is, he has loved ones that will miss & mourn him whether we do or don't, especially his young kids.I don't believe I showed disrespect to the dead. Of course you won't miss me....you don't know me. I don't miss, or mourn people I don't know and most people don't.
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are we allowed to post any of the latest jokes about MJ in here? I've got one that makes sense....at least to me!
Some HELP in posting on Computing.net plus free progs and instructions Cheers
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Out of curiosity I looked up MJ @ Ebay.
There are people trying to sell MJ domain names for millions!!!
I think (from memory) the most expensive was $30,000,000 AUD. That's a hell of alot of zeros.
Surely people don't actually buy these???!!!
If they did I would certainly wonder how they got wealthy in the first place.
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Don't think it's a simple matter of black or white. MJ, like anyone else, was a product of his environment, life experiences and inherent tendencies. The doctor was an enabler, and MJ was most likely a willing participant.
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And now this crap...
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/micha...
Fur sure, MJ conspired with the LA County Coroner to fake his death; Quincy would be mortified.
Skip
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And today, "This Is It" by Michael Jackson hits the airwaves. Wonder if it will be a top selling single, then movie?
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@ Radix-64
He's got a lot of die-hard fans & they are probably excited about the posthumous release. Although, Paul Anka couldn't be anymore happier with its potential success: he lucked out big-time on the estate's non-diligence.
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