Have we all been duped? The two articles below argue so.

http://cyberpunks.org/display/356/article/
http://samspade.org/d/firewalls.html

What does a sofware firewall really do?
It stops amature hackers from finding and accessing your computer. A friend of mine let me attempt to connect to his computer. So I first try to find him through his IP. Well with his firewall on it says non active connection. I then do a port scan and it says no response. Now I did realize he was there when I tried to TCP/UDP connect and got "forcefully rejected" (it would usually say connection failed if nobody was there). So I stopped there, then I had him turn his firewall off and did a IP scan and found his IP amoung a list of active connections. So I TCP/UDP connect and bang I can see his shared network folders. I'm no hacker so to think someone without "real" hacking knowledge wouldn't be able to get further yeah right. When I'm on the net the only thing I do is check my activity and monitor my ports. The best security is to have ALL IMPORTANT information on a removable drive that the net can't access.

My honest opinion? Those sites were not worth wasting my time reading. The first appears to be a rant by a guy who points out that some users don't know how to install a firewall and that firewalls do not stop every possible attack on your system, and concludes that firewalls are therefore useless. That's like saying since locks don't keep every possible burglar out of your house, don't waste your time using locks, they give you a false sense of security.

The second is more professionally presented, but looks somewhat self-serving. "Sam Spade" apparently runs a security consulting service (email header consultant at $50.00 for 4 emails?), and is also an email campaign consultant ("We can....work with you to prevent recipients from reporting you for spamming").

Hmmmm, think I'll pass.

Yes and No!!
Theses cheapo/free software has been made for people with no networking skills. Most home users doesnt want to pay for a firewall nor for a professional installation. That way, there is nothing better we can do!!

Real firewall are based on IP/port rules and stateful inspection. Without strong skills in tcpip and security i seriously doubt that someone can setup rules by himself.

Also, education of users is often much better. Even with corporate class firewall, if you continue to open any email attachments, use kazaa, try warez stuff,... Yes firewall are useless!!

hi carpediemk,
all i can say is :don't use one and then find out. most people don't have external drives and in general do not back up on zip or cd-rom.
there are many good free firewalls out there in computerland, that will give you peace of mind if you are on cable or dsl(always on).
better to be safe
just remember this, leaving your home unlocked today and your inviting disaster.
take care,
murve

There is some truth to all of the responses. My belief is that if you have information of a sensitive nature, documents or anything of value on your computer then you should have a secondary computer that never gets connected to outside sources such as the internet.

If you are worried about someone hacking into your computer you probably got on the wrong path and should get on another path that offers the enjoyment of the internet environment without worry. There is always risk to most things in life. Same is true with the internet. Be vigilant but not worried to the point of paranoia.

GO ARMY!

Those articles basically echo what I have been saying all along:

1.) Personal software firewalls are far from perfect.

2.) A hardware firewall is better, but still not totally secure.

3.) Nothing is hack-proof. If someone wants to get you bad enough there is nothing you can do to stop them.

But the most important thing to remember above all is:

4.) Hackers are lazy. Unless a hacker has a specific reason to attck you personally, the attacker will move on when he finds out you have *any* sort of firewall.

And finally, read #3 again. Yeah, nothing is safe. You think that ZA and the like are fully protecting you from attacks? Think again. If corporations that spend tons of cash on network security measures and equipment still get hacked, so can you.

Not to get everyone paranoid...

If you have data that you cannot lose, back it up. If you have data that you do not want anyone to ever see, store it on a machine with no NIC card.

Reminds me of a quote from someone at the FBI's computer crimes unit I was reading on the net the other day: "The only secure PC is one that has no networking device, is locked in a safe, and buried in an undisclosed location. And we're not even completely sure about *that* one."

4.) Hackers are lazy. Unless a hacker has a specific reason to attck you personally, the attacker will move on when he finds out you have *any* sort of firewall.

Well s' kiddies are but Im sure that anyone with any exprience can get by a personal one...

As a test I did what Murve was talking about. I setup a PC to be completely vulnerable. The firewall I installed was for logging purposes only. Just in a 12 hour period you would not beleive what that PC went through. I don't know if this is typical of what happens to an unprotected machine in such a short period of time. But there was enough information in that log file to make anyone think twice about getting on the web with out even the weakest of security measures taken to secure it. If you have an old PC give it a try sometime. I would gaurantee that you will not be short on reading material when you browse the log files. I just set my little test up and activated the machine right before going off to work.

I might try it again, but next time leave some presents for any crackers that get in.

V-Peace-V

Underdog:
A lot of people are screeming as soon as they see something in firewall log!! Most dropped and logged packets are inofensives random probe comming from infected computers, not from an hacker!! If your computer is not compromised with worm/virus and no services are listening on any port... you can't be hacked. with ou without firewall.

hey,like murve said...go ahead and leave your door unlocked,and wait for someone to walk in...FOOL

READ:

1) http://www.itpapers.com/cgi/SubcatIT.pl?scid=280

2) http://netsecurity.about.com/library/weekly/aa020501a.htm

[quote]
If your computer is not compromised with worm/virus and no services are listening on any port... you can't be hacked. with ou without firewall. [quote]

Are you sure you want to make this statement? If you do, I have a little proposition for you. Please let me know, really.

V-Peace-V

Underdog,

I think Danny is right. Do u know what a firewall for? --> to close all your open ports/services. All it's need it's to close the ports.

A very good question, what is u have a web server which listen to port 80, and nimda is probing thru port 80, will your firewall drop the probing? The answer is no, why? because firewall is only dealing with ports not signature. If u have IDS, then it might send a TCP reset to kill the probing.

My point that I am trying to get across is "If anyone puts their PC on the Net without some type of protection a firewall (hardware or software), an IDS, etc., it can be cracked". Part of my self appointed duties @ work is to try and find vulnerable area's within certain points of our LAN. I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert in cracking, very, very, very far from it. But with the cracking tools that are available today you don't have to be an expert. I would not even make these statements if I had not already performed them (on my own systems). If I am given an IP# of an unprotected system "I can crack that system". This is not a boast, it is the physical truth. And if I am only a novice @ being able to perform this, what do you think a person that lives for the challenge of cracking is going to do. You know what, this subject is boring me, I'm boring me, so I think I will just end by saying, do whatever you want, Goodnight, God Bless, and Good-bye.

V-Peace-V

Anyone interested in "cracking" into my puny PC has way to much time on thier hands.

I back up data 3-5 times a week to CD-R, i dont keep any personal info in my HD and i could care less if someone cracks into my box.

I have current antivirus software with daily definition updates and i dont use a firewall.

Whether or not you need or think you need a firewall is a personal choice. Anyone keeping "top secret" information stored on the HD is crazy. No firewall or antivirus can help you if your crazy.

The average home user.. in my opinion doesnt need a firewall. Then again.. what does average mean?

It's personal choice and how much risk you want to take.I've heard experts say that firewalls are a false sense of security before.I always have a firewall.I test mine occasionally for stealthing ports.All I know for sure is that my firewall is invaluable for the info that I get from it's traffic logs.And it has worked/protected me recently!Another part of this issue is how risky is your surfing?Where you go on the internet determines just how vulnerable you are.How much time spent surfing,dial-up or DSL connection.Regards.JB

underdog,

please don't be mad or pissed off, we all still learning. If i do make u angry, sorry I have say. take it easy. I might be wrong one day. btw, what you work as?, I am a security analysis.

kokpoh,
I'm not mad or Pi***d off, really! As a matter of fact I already had part of this post written before I even read your last. I was and I am making a formal apology to anyone and everyone that I may have upset with my writings in this thread. My intent was not one with a malicious goal. For that I do so solemnly apologize for. But I still stand behind what I said, I just wish I had presented it in a more professional manner. Beleive me when I say that this is not my normal nature. I equate myself to the old dog that lays out in the sun to warm his bones. Sometimes @ work they have to put a mirror under my nose to see if I am still breathing :).

As for what I do for a living, I am one of six Administrators that oversee's and administers an educational (K-12) Novell Network in the largest school district in our state. We currently have 32 Netware Servers, 9 Linux Servers, and 2 Microsoft 2K Servers on the wire. The network is broken into the LAN, WAN, and MAN. The organization employ's approx. 7K educational administrators (Principals, Directors, etc.), staff (Teachers), computer technicians, custodial, along with 44K plus Students. We are pretty much self sufficient in that we also have any professional trade you could think of. We are almost like a small city, right down to performing our own trash pickup on a limited basis. There is also a 40-50 M$ server network maintained seperately by the MIS department. Which integrates with our Novell network for security, authentication, and printing purposes.

The way I see it our organization contains approx. 30K potential computer system hackers. We supply them with some of the best computer equipment and training available. From PC 101 to CCNA certification. And they have one leg up on the bad guy's that try (and succeeded a couple of times) to hack into our system. They are already on the inside, one less major hurdle that they do not have to negotiate a way around or through. So by nature we (system admins) have to think like a hacker on a daily basis. Ask any educational network administrator or IT manager what they have seen in the ways of hacks. I would dare to say that you could bring your lunch, it would be a long conversation. But I must say that using Novell as one of our main security lines along with supporting products like Zfdx, TNG, Citrix, IntelliReach, Guinivere, GWAVA, Norton, Cisco, and numerous others has helped us to make the security holes a lot smaller and in a lot of areas non-existent. By the way the two times I know of that our network was compromised was due to a hole in the M$ Servers.

And I agree with you 1K% about the learning part. The day we stop learning is the day that we are probably six feet under. We can not know it all, if we did this might truly be a better world for all of us. Again my apologies to everyone for my un-professional demeanor.

V-Peace-V

Following advice from TheKid.. i finally downloaded sygate's personal firewall. My last experience with a firewall was zonealarm pro... probably the first version released and i have to say.. sygate is a whole new ball game. The who is lookup is a great feature and so far.. i havent noticed the lag caused by norton's firewall [2001] or any of the ZA bugginess.

If you feel you need a firewall.. sygate is definately worth a look.

I just downloaded zonealarm pro v3 and it seems to be working well. As soon as i installed it, it notified me i was being "scanned". traced the Ip back to arabia somewhere (if that even was the true IP) ANYWAY, for some reason i cant run Kazaa while its up. It worked fine the first time but now it just seems impossible to load. (unless my wall is off) Any advice on how to allow a filesharing prog to work? I read the FAQ's and Troubleshooting....But still no luck. What am i doing all wrong here??

Kazaa and security on the net are oxymorons IMO. Again using Kazaa is a personal choice and if you are willing to take that risk you can do that. Kazaa is the source of so many problems posted here and yet people still want to use it - it's beyond me why. No offence intended italicworld. Maybe if you started a new thread you might get an answer sooner. This one has got very long.

Re: Suzi's comments.
Well, thats true. you have a point about the security breaches on KazAa. That was why i wanted to run the firewall. Between my nortons and the zonealarm, i am relatively safe. (although not completely of course) Advice taken and i did post a new message on this matter. ______

Dear underdog,

it's good to hear from you that u r fine. Don't work too hard, hackers are everywhere, to get them, we need a clear mind. wow, u have amazing job over there. Keep in touch.

take care

There is nothing that will keep info 100% safe when its on your computer.If someone cant get at it through the line coming in what ever it my be and this someone wants what you have in it they could just bust your door down and take the whole computer. Personally the best way to keep your info safe is to put it on a removable drive and keep an eye on it that way.