Anyone know of any links that can describe the harness usefullness and purpose of each computer language? I want to learn a language myself but hate books and the pathetic classes they give out at my community college. Are there programs that can actually teach languages? A specific question I have is do you know of any languages that can click on a certain pixle on different parts of the screen and then loop? I really want to know how useful a computer language can be handy. Thank you

"Anyone know of any links that can describe the harness usefullness and purpose of each computer language?"

- Well first off, I don't think that programming languages were made for personal enjoyment. They were intended to serve a single purpose and nothing more; programming. Computers follow through and execute a set of instructions called a 'program' that can be written in many languages including C, C++, C#, Visual Basic, BASIC, Fortran, COBOL, PERL, Java, LISP, J++, B, A, Assembly, Binary, amongst the many languages out there.

It is basically impossible to find ONE particular site that will offer such information about every single language. There are so many variations of languages as well that it is literally impossible to go ahead and find them all out. Do some searching in google, they tend to turn out the best possible results over any other search engine.

"A specific question I have is do you know of any languages that can click on a certain pixle on different parts of the screen and then loop?"

- Huh? You can do stuff in HTML that allows you to click on a certain 'pixel' or pixel area on the page and it will do stuff. Click here to visit a decent HTML page.

If you want to learn about a specific programming language, click here. This is a link to the Bjarne Stroustrup's C++ language site, he is the original creator of the language. Like all languages it's main purpose is to write programs and make stupid computers do some awesome and intelligent things.

- Rolos

Aaahhhh
Grasshopper!
Yes, Programming languages do create programs.
Yes, programmers create programs.

What is a program. In simple terms, a program is a solution to a problem (In a business sense.) (Games are the same (in essence) I am bored, well, I have a solution)

Not many programmers (that i know of) pick a language and then decide I am going to write all of these programs.

Normally person X comes to them and says, I have this problem, can you solve it?

Programmers open up their toolbox, pull out a tool and solve the problem with that.

a carpenter does not choose a hammer and only use that tool.

Know one language well, use others as well as you can.

Books are it Eric. Pick some up on various languages and read.

The answers are therre, we only have to look.

With tongue in cheek, George :^)

LOL yes yes Young glasshoppa.
Thanks for your reponses... reading languages are so inacurate (not one of the best words). What I mean is that the books I've been given such as visual basics book and a few others I have looks at... sucked. Some books start out slow then the next second your lost. Some books lead you in holes.
I've asked this question many times but never get a straight answer. What language should I read, is best to start and learn at a certain point, and what book?
I need to know a couple of things though. When they say I know c++ or I know pearl what do they write the programs with? Do they use a txt file like html does? Do you have to buy a program to use that language?
Also what IS hacking? I read a book and basically what it was saying well for the part (notics no s at end... lol) I kinda understood were just downloading programs and using them. Do you have to know languages to hack? If you can hack... *I know I wont get a straight answer) what are your possibilities. I really want to know what it is and maybe learn how to "hack" one day. And no I'm not going to hack fbi websites lol. I don't do well in books I need a hands on method of learing. Such as a 1 on 1 lesson. Anyone here think they could lend me their AIM sn? Thanks Eric

Hackers: There are a number of things that hackers do. There are hackers and crackers who are somewhat, but not really the same. Crackers usually spend their time...well...cracking passwords. Hackers like to break in and enter systems and invade other unsuspecting user's computers and wreak havoc on their system. They are usually successful when there is a 'security hole' in their victim's systems.

Programming Languages: Now, to tell what language a program is written in is usually undetectable unless the programmer who wrote it tells you what language he or she did it in. In nearly all high level languages, there is a need for a compiler. This takes your program code written in these high level languages and turns them into readable machine code that your computer can execute. The computer can only read machine code which is known to those in the industry as 'machine code'. These are strings of 1's and 0's put together that the computer can read.

The languages that usually have compilers are your Java, C++, C, and Visual Basic langauges. I do not like Visual Basic as much because it is a language that is not very close to the hardware level so you cannot do as much with it as you will with languages like C and C++. My favorite language is C++ because you can do a whole load of things with it. A lot of games are written in C++ for consoles and popular gaming platforms like the Nintendo Gamecube and Microsoft XBOX. HTML, as you have mentioned is done in a text editor. Most files have their own extensions such as .cpp in C++ like .html in HTML.

On the other hand there is the Assembly language. Assembly language is a very low level language, one level above machine code and you can do a lot of programming on the hardware level. Meaning, you can program the hardware components of your computer to do nearly anything that your mind can conceive. Assembly requires an assembler, like most languages require a compiler.

This assembler is unique to every CPU and there are only a couple that I know of very well. These are the Pentium and the Motorola CPU's. Each have their own unique assemblers that understands their own instruction sets. Instruction sets are what assembly programmers need in order to program successfully on each kind of CPU because the commands differ on the Pentium and the Motorola.

Others could go into much greater depth into each subject, but this is where I will stop. I hope some of this information is helpful to you and like I said, google provides a lot of good links unlike MSN or AltaVista. If you are interested in programming, there is a free compiler (and a very good one I might add) at bloodshed.net. Some of the regulars here and myself have designed an incomplete website with C++ tutorials at http://www.evolutionsoftwarellc.com/tutorial/index.asp

- Rolos

Wow cool thanks man. I'll take a look at those sites and hopfully I can learn c++ one day. Few questions you didn't answer were should I just go straight into c++ or should I learn c first? If I did learn c++ would I write the code into a compiler then compile whatever I write? I'm not quite sure how this all works out.. how games are put together and so on. Well I'll check into those sites. Thanks a ton -Eric

Well, I learned C first...mainly because there was no C++ when I learned C. But you might do well to learn C++ first, c is actually less complicated because it does not deal with classes and is more procedural. (but i know that it was hard for me to make the transition from procedural to object-oriented...c to c++, but it is pretty easy to go backwards because all you do is write functions instead of objects...but, if you are like me, after doing c++ for awhile, i have a hard time with the limitation of c)

Just for clarification:
A Hacker used to mean, some one who finds out the way a computer works, and makes code (hacks) to run that computer differently. Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs were hackers. Now adays it has become synonymous with thiefs/punks and anarchists. You would be wise NOT to become the latter.

One last thing to remember:
It takes an intelligent person to program a malicious or intrusive code...but it takes a genius to not use it.

Chi Happens

Good info. Yeah I'm not going to do anything distructive but I really would like to learn how to "hack". It seems more like a game :P. Anyway did you learn by... Book? Computer Class? Or from a program? What programs do you use to write c++ in? Does everyone use the same compiler or are some better then others? In what way?
I don't understand how you can change how a sytem operates by not using a program... I'm still stuck on what level is classified as a hacker? Using programs is just being a kittie right? Or if someone says they did it from scratch... they what? Ahh its soo confusing. I really want to understand computers more but just aren't sure how to start. I haven't been able to look at those sites yet but I will. Thanks for trying to help out a n00b :P -Eric

George:
"Aaahhhh. Grasshopper! Yes, Programming languages do create programs. Yes, programmers create programs. "
My question is, who creates the programmers?

Eric:
Online tutorials and trial-and-error through some example code is just as good at the $60.00 book on my shelf. Ultimately, they cover the same material.

The "text file" you are referring to is the source code of the program. The words and syntax of the programming language that execute certain tasks.

There is an ongoing debate with the terms "hacker" and "cracker"... in my opinion, anyone can claim either... due to available tools on the internet. The person who makes those tools are the programmers :) Therefore, your "straight answer" should be implied. No you do not have to know certain languages to "hack".

Sorry, I don't use AIM...

-For your 2nd post... I started C/C++ with C programming... I got a good feel for memory management. C++ is more object oriented. If I had it to do over again, I would jump into C++... that's a personal opinion and there are several available here.

Games are put together using programming languages with special files called graphics libraries (Open GL www.opengl.org for example). Most games require a great deal of speed and this is where the Assembly language comes in.

-For your 3rd post...
I learned programming in the late 80s... through one BASIC book and example code. Plowing through frustration via trial-and-error, I developed an interest enough in programming to double major in Computer Science and Software Engineering. I got out of college last May and I must say, it is a good field to go into... but before you get out, see what the economy is doing first (otherwise stay in college).

More or less, I learned from example code, then books, then friends, then formal training (high school college). I would always start with example code and a good online tutorial when I want to learn a new language (recently learned PHP this way).

Doing "something from scratch", basically means someone researched and developed... they started with nothing and created something.

The only way to start in this field Eric, is to just jump in. The field is too broad to know everything about everything... I suggest picking a language, learn as much as you can... learn another language and compare the two... then proceed with more languages until you get a nice knowledge of the syntax, etc established. It can be overwhelming at times, the trick is... not to give up. You can do anything you put your mind to.

Infinite Recursion

Awsome :D. I'm working on c++ from Rolos site. Its pretty good. Its very familliar to Basic which I kinda learned at my local college. I wouldn't consider myself as knowing the language basic though.
The only problem with tutorials is I'm always filled with little questions that aren't answered and I know no tutorial can be perfect without giving so much information its not even worth reading.
No one here has an AIM ICQ MSN sn I could have to ask you guys questions from time to time :P. If I get annoying you could always block me ;). Anyway thanks a ton for the info; basically answered all my questions. I really want to go into a computer "science" (--why's it called science) major.
Oh the mommys create the programmers but... who created the mommys?
Oh yeah how many of these things for these languages do you have to memorize. cin cout double... Are all these commands different in each language? Well thanks yet once again. -Eric

"Anyone know of any links that can describe the harness usefullness and purpose of each computer language?"

Whole terabytes of Usenet is dedicated to this proposition. The debates are still mirrored around the world.

you only have to memorize all that you need to know in a language. its just like talking...you dont need to know every word in the english language, and its meaning, you can get the point across just fine using "little" words. now im not saying you could write an entire operating system by only knowing how to define variables, and recive an input from the user, but you dont need to know everything about a language to know it. you just kinda learn it along the way...you'll get the hang of it. it just takes patience.

eaw8806

Computer Science - Is basically the study of computers in all their glory, both hardware and software. Its a science because in most universities they teach theory and applications...

You have to remember a lot of Cin, cout, etc... its syntax for each language, and each language is different. Once you use the language for a while, these 'keywords' will become second nature to write / type / say. eaw8806 explains this beautifully...

IR

Hey IR,

Does the CS study definition vary from each University? Here they tell us that our mainstay is mainly algorithms. Well, that idea was instilled in us young CS majors in our intro to CS course. Now I'm seeing that the topic extends much more beyond that.

Now we have the hardware components, the software implementations, the more complex algorithms, the computer logic and the list goes on and on. Most CS majors here, on average, take 5 years to graduate and some even take 6 years to graduate. The reason? Lots of math and LOTS and LOTS of software engineering courses that is integrated into the program.

I am guessing that the workload has a heck of a lot to do with it as well. I am starting to feel the burn in my discrete mathematics and intro to computer architecture and assembly class where we learn the assembly language as well. It feels like finals and it's only the second week into the semester 8)

In any case, yes Computer Science is a huge field bound by nothing but one's imagination. In my opinion, we are the most underrated professionals of any industry. We know our stuff extremely well, yet along comes a liberal arts major (who is our boss) who tells us to come and fix his lamp because we are in IT.

Well that was just a joke I heard from an old timer in the industry some time back. It frightens me to think that I am forcing myself to learn propositional and predicate logic to one day end up not using it at all. The stories I hear from people in IT are horrific. Is that what tormenting through these classes will get us?

I engoy computing, not fixing fans and monitors because of the stereotype label put onto us. Well I do not know anything yet, I am still a naive student and please *anonproxy* do not bash me if you read this entry. I have a feeling that you will though 8) But anyway, I go through this major with dark clouds obstructing my vision and I hope that experience by contributing to open source projects in the future and this tutorial web site will help me to better things.

- Rolos

Oops, engoy = enjoy.

I have actually attended 3 universities, well one was a college. At any rate, I do believe the CS definition varies between universities. In my university experience it was a mix between foundation (hardware, low level programming), data/file structures, and algorithm design and development). Quality of software was burned into our minds as CSC freshmen... then of course you get deeper into it, damn near drowning.

If you notice, most computer science departments are changing their names to Computer Information Systems or some other weird named derived from the word Information. I'm not sure why that is. The university that I finished at, had a college of engineering (where I got my Software Engineering degree) and a college of science and technology (where I got my Computer Science degree, and minor in Geological Science). The university is broken into colleges and the colleges are broken into departments, etc. In most instances, computer science and mathematics departments are intertwined.

At any rate, the short answer is, the focus of the Computer Science curriculum and the definition "enforced" by each department, is up to the chairman of the department or dean of the college / university... I do believe the definition varies, but at the discretion of the school's administration.

I personally hate mathematics, but it was a large part of my CSC degree, it wasn't too focused in my SE degree. It took me a while to graduate with my double major. I started in May 98 and got out in May 03. It would have only taken me four years, but Calculus III and Calculus IV proved a little difficult.

I tell ya man, the closer you get to graduating... the more burned out you will feel. My last semester I was looking for reasons to keep going to class, I missed more class my last semester of my senior year than I did for the prior 3 years of my college career combined. It sucked, big time. Presentations, reports, projects, assignments... you name it. When I wasn't at school, I was at work... if not at work or school, I was partying or out of town.

You know, you couldn't be more correct. My first job, while I was in school was with a DoD contractor for the US Army Corps of Engineers. There was a guy who had is Masters degree in Management Information Systems and was in control of guys that had their PHDs in Computer Science. The bottom line is money and stock, those who know it... know it well... if you can get a minor or a double major in Business Administration or MIS... hook it up, it will definitely be worth an extra semester or two.

I have been out of school for a while now. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have yet to use anything I learned from any math class (except simplistic binary, octal, hex, and decimal calculations). As far as propositional calculus... it helps with Expert Systems and Knowledge Bases, but you won't run into that much either. The industry isn't much different than school. Except in the industry, trying isn't enough. It must be done and it must be A+ work, or you will be discarded in the next downsizing event... I've seen two downsizes in four months. The economy is in a recession, stay in school if you can... lol

There is always animosity between hardware people and software people. I personally, like software. However, to do software, you must know hardware (or at least its limitations). You don't really have to know software to do hardware. I don't forsee myself fixing "fans and monitors", mainly because my skill is software and not hardware. I believe though, any programmer can fix basic hardware failures and establish functional networks. Afterall, if the programmer is college educated, the hardware and network classes are probably requirements anyway. lol

Good luck with your degree(s). :)

IR

Computational Science has two parts:

Theory and application.

"Here they tell us that our mainstay is mainly algorithms."

It is and will always be. Algorithms are practical expressions of logic, all with mathmatical foundation.

A great example of computational algorithm implementation (to keep you inspired perhaps) is Google's PageRank. It is not too complex to understand in one reading, is practical enough to distribute and scale, and provides excellent results.

Forget all the myriad pieces of hardware that runs Google, its web server, and even the Internet. Focus on how the entire structure relies on the effectiveness of a single component of process logic.

Remember there are tools (hardware, languages - the application medium) and there are principles (algorithms, logic, math). The tools may be infinitely complex and detail-oriented (i.e. more jobs, more computer stuff), but they rely entirely on the principles.

The tools are where the immediate money is (and where over-supply tends to fatten). Expertise and skills in details is always in demand, because the details change all the time. But all tools are reinvented and improved. They are merely the medium through which the principles are exercised.

I personally see modern education programs stressing some kind of balance, which is good. But the tool/application side usually seems to win over in the end. Just remember what lasts and what has an upgrade tomorrow or next year.

"please *anonproxy* do not bash me if you read this entry."

I don't generally bash, flame, or troll.