TazG, You seem to make a very good point; however, VB doesn't stop anyone from finding out what's under the hood. Finding out what's under the hood depends on the programmer. The VB language only provides more guidance to beginners. Once you go pass the level of beginners, you can find out what's under the hood, regardless of languages. Althouth very powerful, the Santax of C is outdated. We are living in 2005. I know very little of C. The santaxes on C needs Serious improvements. TazG, I appreciate you help! Thanks, newman,

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>> the Santax of C is outdated << Interesting observation considering the syntax of VB is as older than of that of C. C goes back to the early 70s. BASIC syntax goes back even more to the early 60s. Stuart

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>VB doesn't stop anyone from finding out >what's under the hood. It is the nature of Billy-G and his buddies to hide what's under the hood, because they want to have complete control. Real Programmers don't use Microsoft. Microsoft just wants to own and control everyone and everything. Programmers are not supposed to be controlled, they are supposed to control. Use the web the way it was meant to be used. Get Firefox.

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Stuart, Forgive my statement the word outdated may not be the right word. Let's replace it with complex, instead. VB is a very high level language. Its syntaxes are very simple and English-like. The simplicity of the VB language helps the professional programmer to focus on the task at hand. Sometimes emotion deviates people's perception from seeing the truth. Let's take away, all emotions, such as, hatred, resentment and anger. We can't speak the truth with those negative emotions inside. They will blind block your true reasoning. We as human invent new things in order to make life easier. We invented the wheel, the auto-mobile, radio, tele-vision, etc... We go on and invented the calculator, then the computer. Then we invented programming. If you take a look at each one of the things I mentioned, They all go through a process of becoming easier and easier, in other words more user friendly. VB seems to go through that process of being friendlier and friendlier to the user. In my opinion VB seems to free the programmer's imagination from the strain of complex and difficult syntaxes. TazG, Let me tell you something, I feel your vibre. Do not react with anger toward Bill. He revolutionized the software industry. You can argue that all you want. The guy is a genius. put yourself in his place, you may have done the same. Poor Bill, he is not trying to control anything. Bill is trying to protect his intellectual properties. I would protect mine as well. Let me tell you something. People react automatically to windows not because Bill is controlling them, but because Windows is very user friendly. Windows is the most user-friendly operating system on the market. Nothing is forever. As long as nothing better is created, Windows will survive. We are in 2005 and we are moving fast. We need something that can help us move faster. Difficult stuffs are not only slowing us down, they are eating up considerable amount of time. Programming is the number one time eater. We have friends, wives and kids to spend time with. I can guarantee you that. If you can get a more user friendly operating system than windows out there, you will invade the market to the point that people will claim that you are trying to control, an that your software contains subliminal messages, etc... I love you philosophy of refusing to be controlled. I hate being controlled myself!! Newman,

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>> In my opinion VB seems to free the programmer's imagination from the strain of complex and difficult syntaxes. << It does, but complex and difficult syntaxes are part of learning any language, whether it be a computer language or a spoken language. It is easier and quicker to developer programmes in VB. But there is also a whole lot of things you cannot do with VB that you can in C. It's is because it is a very high level language the restricts its capabilities. Try writing a device driver in VB. In fact try doing anything really worth while in VB without using the API, which is written in C++, and you soon come up against a brick wall. Indeed there are some things that are best done in Assembler, and you can't get any more complex than that. Stuart

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Yes VB is simpler than C and you can go ahead and use it... I was saying that it won't let you see what's going on under the hood, because it's higher level. High level languages are always easier but less powerful. However, VB is not the only high-level language, and in my opinion is definately not the best. It creates gigantic files for even the simplest programs, and has memory leaks. > Do not react with anger toward Bill. He > revolutionized the software industry. > You can argue that all you want. OK, I will. He revolutionized nothing. He stole everything. I would say that Apple revolutionized. Look at the history. > The guy is a genius. Maybe... but definately not a computer genius, a business genius. He knows how to make money, and does it very immorally. > Poor Bill, he is not trying to control > anything. Bill is trying to protect his > intellectual properties. He has none. Like I said, he stole everything, I mean EVERYTHING, and then told the world he is the king of originality. > As long as nothing better is created, > Windows will survive Not quite. Windows will survive as long as he can get the world to continue believing his lies. Clearly you haven't done enough research on this. A great place to learn about Microsoft's crap is KMFMS.com. Use the web the way it was meant to be used. Get Firefox.

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>> It creates gigantic files for even the simplest programs, and has memory leaks. << I'll would agree with the first assertion to some extent, but not gigantic, unless to consider 1 Mbs gigantic. Never seen memory leaks on VB. It is it's high level environment that makes memory leaks less likely. All memory allocation is done by the Run Time Environment, not the programmer. There are some bad programming techniques you can make you think there are memory leaks, like using End to terminate an application, but thats the programmers fault. Not the programming environment. Its a bit much to say he stole everything. True he acquired most of MS's products, with the exception of BASIC and it derivatives, from other companies, but stole! When you have a case to argue, you weaken it when you start using emotive and misleading language. Stuart

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> I'll would agree with the first assertion > to some extent, but not gigantic, unless > to consider 1 Mbs gigantic. It is gigantic considering you can write the same thing in another language as 100KB or so... > Its a bit much to say he stole everything. > True he acquired most of MS's products, > with the exception of BASIC and it > derivatives, from other companies, but > stole! Are you saying Microsoft invented BASIC!? That's simply not true. Anyway, "stole" is correct because they use other software and say it is their own and, in many cases, sabotage the competition they took it from. Please read the KMFMS article before you try to make any more arguments. Use the web the way it was meant to be used. Get Firefox.

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No, I did not say he invented BASIC, but he did write his own Interpreter. Anyone can write their own BASIC interpreter if they know enough about the language. Its like saying Henry Ford stole the motor car off Daimler/Benz. Steeling is taking from the owner without their consent. Windows/Office/C++ etc were bought from other companies, in which case he is well entitled to call it his own. Just like this computer is mine although it has some else's name on it. Stuart

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Microsoft does more than simply buy; they buy, then destroy the seller with any means they can think of, and then put up ads about how innovative they are. It's true that he's "entitled" to say this... many of the things Microsoft does are legal, but legal doesn't always mean right. Microsoft is destroying the computer industry. Use the web the way it was meant to be used. Get Firefox.

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