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brand new at programming, help

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Original Message
Name: royden
Date: December 2, 2004 at 19:38:43 Pacific
Subject: brand new at programming, help
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU/Ram: AMD Athalon 2.6Gz/128DDR
Comment:

Hi,
As I said I've never programed or coded before, and would like some advice on which direction to take.
I'm interested in making a few small games, and then
going on from there, but I am overwhelmed by all the
different types of programming languages out their and
don't know which one to pick. Also, could you make sure your suggestions are available online for free.

Thanx for your time
Royden


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Response Number 1
Name: bamakhrama
Date: December 2, 2004 at 21:48:25 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Hi,
I suggest you to learn either C++ or Java.
My recommendation is C++ which is used for systems programming. It is the language of Windows & Linux. You might choose to learn MS Visual Basic but i dont recommend it since there is no "real" programming; just drag & drop.
Here are some resources for C++:
http://www.techbooksforfree.com/ccpp.shtml
http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/
http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

for Java:
http://www.faqs.org/docs/javap/index.html
http://www.cs101.org/ipij/
http://www.cafeaulait.org/course/


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Response Number 2
Name: Wolfbone
Date: December 3, 2004 at 00:47:30 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

C is the language of the Linux kernel and the GNU/Linux OS, not C++. Although C++ is used extensively these days, it is perfectly possible to install a pretty complete environment for GNU/Linux without any C++ based programs at all.

Anyway, Mohamed is right about VB but I'd steer clear of MS altogether, at least to begin with: You say you know nothing about programming yet and you also imply that you haven't got a fortune to spend on development tools etc. You are overwhelmed by the number of possibilities and don't want to restrict yourself by making poor and possibly expensive initial choices?

So don't make any choices - install GNU/Linux (dual boot if you like) and explore the entire range of programming languages and a whole world of development tools, documentation and literature etc. Not only will it not cost you any money but the advantages of a high quality, free (libre) and open source environment and community are worth a very large premium in themselves, especially if you are learning. If you find later on that you need to write Windows programs, you will only need to learn the Windows specific stuff - which you may learn anyway if you decide early on to make all your programs portable, as many FLOSS developers do.

If you want to be a good programmer - develop good habits and all that jazz, I'd recommend Lisp. Lisp is a revelation - it subsumes and enlightens one about all other languages and programming techniques, (with the one exception of machine level programming). Study it in parallel with C and an OO language like C++ (or Java or Python) and even assembly perhaps and you'll quickly become a highly competent programmer (or so I've been advised - though I've found assembly is a bit beyond my needs as far as understanding the machine is concerned). In the meantime you'll find it easy to write small games with the help of libraries like SDL and tools like Lush and myriad other software. You'll soon be able to contribute to even major projects and gain real credit and recognition for having done so.

If later on you decide you want to return to the dark side, you will be in a much better position to be in control of it rather than it being in control of you. ;-)


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Response Number 3
Name: Infinite Recursion
Date: December 3, 2004 at 07:47:34 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

C++ is the way to go.
http://www.bloodshed.net


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Response Number 4
Name: Wolfbone
Date: December 4, 2004 at 01:47:20 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

C++ is the way to go.... No! Java is the way to go... No! Python is the way to go... Hmmmm. Use the right tool for the job I'd say - and make sure you are acquainted with more than just one, but I'd also guess that the future will be dominated by the Lisp family - even if the PHBs don't realize it yet ;-)

http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/introduction-a-once-and-future-history-of-lisp.html

http://www.cs.uni-bonn.de/~costanza/lisp/guide.html

http://www.cs.uni-bonn.de/~costanza/lisp-ecoop/

http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film

http://www.paulgraham.com/paulgraham/icad.html

http://www.paulgraham.com/paulgraham/onlisp.html

"Lisp Business FAQ [from lispnyc.org]

What is Lisp and why should I care?

Lisp is a software development language with a long and distinguished 40 year history. Lisp has serious staying power, a history of success and features that have yet to be matched by contemporary technologies.

The things that make Lisp attractive to the best and brightest, will effect your bottom line in a very positive way.

How will it save me money?

Simple. Lisp is an incredibly expressive and dynamic language that allows people to spend more of their time solving your problems. In short, you get a serious bang-for-your-buck ratio that saves time and money.

It saves you so much time, that you'll soon run out of problems to solve. Wouldn't that be nice?

Lisp also works well with the eXtreme Programming development methodology, although XP is a social convention, it delivers value by stressing short development cycles, client involvement, and flexible specifications, an environment which is which is well suited for Lisp.

Yeah, but it's not Java. I mean, if Lisp is so great, why isn't everyone using it?

The great pioneers of Artificial Intelligence movement chose Lisp for a reason: they needed something to work on some of the most difficult problems the world as known. Unfortunately Lisp was too closely associated with the AI industry, which had temporarily tarnished it's appeal.

Lisp's incredible and unique strengths however, simply won't allow it to disappear, and honestly, Java is only helping to fuel the fire of Lisp's amazing comeback.

Java has momentum, Java is close but not as fast as C/C++, but the reason behind Java's success is that it allows programmers to be more productive than it's primary competitor: C++. Lisp on the other hand, frees your software developers to be far more productive than in any other development language on this planet."


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