I was wondering which of these languages is best for a beginner running Windows. Or, if there is another language you would recommend over both of these, then please do mention that as well. However, I am primarily concerned about which is the better first-time language between QBasic or Pascal. Also, any additional information you could provide would be very much appreciated. Particularly, information as to where to obtain free compilers, tutorials, or any book recommendations.

PS: I haven't been able to find a free QBasic compiler. I don't have Win95 so its not on disk, and I couldn't find a copy off of MS' website. As for Pascal compilers, I just don't know which one I should use.

Thanks

G'day,

Difficult question to answer this. You would probably be better off downloading a few and trying them out. It really all depends on your background and or academic prowess.
You should already have either GWBasic or QBasic interpreters on your machine.
If you go to www.maxcode.com, you can download C, Basic, Vbasic, Pascal compilers for free.
Just bear in mind what the market requires these days- C/C++ are popular if somewhat daunting for a beginner; Delphi is popular which means Pascal is a posibillity, Visual BASIC is also popular.
My personal oppinion is that Pascal was designed as a teaching language and would instill good programming habits at an early stage.There is also heaps of info and examples for you to study. It is a little unforgiving,however, unlike the sloppiness of Basic or the anarchy of C.
Good luck,

regards,

Peter Rolls

Hello Jon:

In spite of the fact that Pascal is not used in the corporate environment, I still feel it's THE language to learn. Pascal, as Peter mentioned, will instill good habits.

Yes, it is difficult, but every minute you spend will make you a better programmer and better your life.

Only in Pascal will you learn the real fundamentals of coding and also learn how to write clean code

Standard Pascal is a terribe language, wordy, complex and the compiler throws you with every little detail. While I have heard it teaches "good programming habits", the ANSI/ISO version of Pascal really teaches you nothing about a computer- rather it teaches you programming with a hermetic compiler and a lot of high-level libraries and hides everthing else from the programmer.
Borland came up with a language called Turbo Pascal 7.0, that deviated (at times radically) from the "standard", took over as _the_ DOS/Windows Pascal compiler and entirely re-defined what many see as good Pascal. If you want to learn Pascal, get this one and don't wait. If you can't find it, there's a product called VirtualPascal for Windows/OS2 that claims 100% BP compatibility.
Turbo Pascal supports 0- terminated character arrays like C, and even will disregard type-checking in certain situations.
Virtal Pascal is free to download, and so should be Turbo Pascal 7, as its no longer being sold. Version 7 is different from its predecessors in several key ways so get this one.

PS> (and a little off-topic): Don't ever be told by some so-called programmers that GOTOs are bad! All they're trying to hide from you is that a goto is simply an unconditional jump- a word to the wise if you ever get into Pascal.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I get the impression from all of the posters that I should go with Pascal(or, to be more specific, Turbo Pascal.) I've also heard elsewhere that all of the "BASIC"'s(Visual, Quick, Q,...etc)are awful, poorly-constructed languages, that will only teach bad-habits. I will probably download Turbo Pascal from maxcode.com, the site the first poster suggested. However, if I decide to learn a "Basic"(though I doubt I will resort to that), which one do you recommend?(and which compiler should I use, and where should I download it?) Or, is it so bad, that I shouldn't even think about using a BASIC? I know I've asked many questions, and I greatly appreciate the help you have given me. Thanks again for your time!

I definately agree with the Pascal route. Turbo Pascal was a dos app and you probably wont be able ti write any window programs, (they'll appear in DOS boxes)

TP is a great start, the "unforgiving" bit that other folk have written is one of the good things! it helps a beginner understand the differences between data types and how to convert and use them. Excellent place to start.

As for Goto's "Mr O" you obviously haven't had to trace a stack dump in the middle of your jump :)

Just my bit,
Jayse
Freelance Software Engineer

If you really want to go with BASIC, (which isnt basic at all, it stands for "Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code" hah! what a mouthful) then you should again go for a DOS based one.

Ive taught more than a few trainee programmers over the years and the main problem is that todays teach yourself stuff isnt really geared at learning the language, its geared at using the App.

Like Teach Yourself VB in 21 days, teaches you how to use "Visual Basic" from Microsoft. not really program in BASIC.

Learning windows and object libraries is 1000 times more complicated than learning to program. so try to do it in steps. DOS is a good place to start.

And stay away from those gotos. if you get carried away with them they'll leave your code in such a mess even you wont understand it :)

NB: Some older versions of BASIC only let you have variables with 1 or 2 letters in their names, try and stay away from these.

QBasic or something similar should be a good start.

Jayse

Thanks. I'll stay away from the Basic stuff, and just stick to Turbo Pascal. I'm just curious though:
How does Pascal's learning curve rate,
compared to C/C++, Java, the "BASICS", Perl, Python, and any others I missed?

I'd go for C.
And visual Studio at that.
just create windows console applications to start with empty programs without al the windows stuph..

Or Delphi and try the same (empt windows console applications, if something like that exists within Delphi) If you do want PASCAL.

Do not use Pascal or Turbo Pascal. Think windows. use Delphi (which is a windows version of pascal. it is almost the same on standard console level)

turbo pascal programs rarely work on standard machines. They need a lot of configuring an patches
("runtime error 200" on anything higher than pentium 1 200 mmx, anyone ? needs a patch !)

forget pascal.
Delphi or standardized C/C++
portable to multiple platforms too. if you do it by the rules.

i want to learn gwbasic how can i get free and comprehensive material .

The best for a total begginer would be qbasic, and compiler Qbasic 4,5. There are good tutors around and it's very easy, you'll have a working proggy in 15 min.