Swapping Routers

February 8, 2009 at 14:57:02
Specs: Windows XP Pro, AMD 64 Athlon Dual Core, 8gb RAM
Short question: I'm swapping an old Belkin router for a new one. Everything works perfectly on the old one, but I've got no network access on the new one.

Background details: We've got a pair of desktop PCs, both exactly alike, running AMD 64 Athlon dual core 3ghz processors with 8gb RAM and running WinXP Pro. There is also a Ubuntu 8.10 Server Edition which is accessed via My Documents from both computers. Internet access is via AT&T DSL modem that is bridged, so the PPPoE client is active in the router(s), and we do have Internet access with either router connected. And, from either computer, I can pull up the DHCP client list and see the connected computers (providing XP boxes get "ipconfig /release" & "ipconfig /renew" and the Linux server gets "dhclient eth0"). And, I can use the terminal program (PuTTy) from my desktop and access the command line of the router, so I know it's accessible.

So far, so good.

BUT, with the new router, I can't see the network from either XP box. We do have (WAN) Internet access, but not LAN access. When I go to My Network Places, I can SEE the workgroup, but I can't see any computer on it, including mine!!!

The old router is a 10/100, and the new one is a gigabit, but I've got nothing but gigabit ethernet ports on the computers, and Cat-6 cables throughout the entire structure. I'd THINK it was a gigabit data error, but everything is gigabit, unless there's a setting somewhere, but even that would prevent me from terminal access to the server and WAN Internet access (have to LAN to get to the WAN).

I am POSITIVE there is some setting somewhere that needs to be changed, but cannot find it for the life of me. I'm convinced of this because everything works PERFECTLY with the old Belkin router & no "special" settings on it.

To make matters worse, this is the 3rd gigabit router we've had in as many months - all having the same problem. The first one was a Linksys gigabit of some flavor, and it got returned because it was definitely defective (reset didn't work). The other two are the exact same model of Belkin N+ wireless router (tho I'm using no wireless functions and even have it turned off), and Belkin even had me RMA the first one to them (at my shipping expense, of course), when they also couldn't make it work.

San Antonio, TX

See More: Swapping Routers

Report •

February 8, 2009 at 15:41:16
I don't see why changing a router would stop you from seeing a share. Go to each XP box and make a note of the IP address. From one of them, type the IP of the other in the run box.
\\ or whatever it is and press enter. The shares should open in explorer.

Do the same thing on the other box.

Report •

February 8, 2009 at 17:41:25

That is just strange!

When I followed your instruction, I can see the server by the IP - from either XP machine, but not in "My Network Places" - I don't understand. I've gone ahead & mapped a drive at each machine to the server and set My Documents to it, so at least that's ok.

I can also IP to my own machine from my machine, or to April's machine from HERS, but not to each others's, which is necessary because I'm still migrating stuff off our machines to the server. And I still can't see the workgroup in My Network Places - from either machine.

I be fuddled!

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Any additional guidance and direction will be greatly appreciated.

Report •

February 8, 2009 at 17:58:12
I never liked network places or even computer names. On small networks, I use static IP addresses. It makes networking easier, in my opinion.

Are you sure that everything in on the same subnet? Run ipconfig /all on all the windows machines. Check the DNS entries and default gateways. Now that I think of it, the default gateways maybe your problem. They should all be the address of the router.

Report •

Related Solutions

February 8, 2009 at 18:41:56
Everything I have is set DHCP, so ALL (& I've confirmed this) computers have the router IP as their default gateways, and they all have the same subnet, as defined by the router.

When I swap routers, I do have to do IPCONFIG with release & renew on the XP boxes, and I have to do DHCLIENT with the ethernet port (eth0) on the Linux box. That routine changes every IP address, but I still can't see into the workgroup.

I do appreciate your use of static IP addresses. And, for a small network that should be fine. But, I don't like hard-coding anything unnecessarily. With the new router, it may be necessary. With the old one, definitely not.

And, even if I did hard-code the IPs static, I still wouldn't be able to see the other workstations. That's the hump I'm now trying to overcome.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 04:42:34
My idea is to get it to work one way and then you always change it again. I don't understand why you don't even want to test it that way. That doesn't make sense.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 05:12:52
Well, with everything setup for DHCP, there's no need to test any of it - the router sets it all. And, I've run IPCONFIG on each XP box and IFCONFIG on the server, and the results are all exactly the same - the gateway is the router and the IP is what shows up in the client list from the router, and the subnet masks are all, and the DNS was set in the old router but not yet in the new one (that may be the problem, tho I'm not using a domain on my LAN, and the server does not surf but only accesses the Internet to send me email when something happens - like one of the HDDs in the RAID5 array shows some damage).

I'm not opposed to trying something if there's a chance I can learn something or figure out an issue. It just seemed too easy to have everything DHCP and not have to worry about it. If this were a big network, it would all be DHCP except for the servers, anyway, but that's not such a big deal with just 3 workstations.

So, I will reset everything so that it's all configured static. I'll have to do that this evening after I get home from work, so it'll be a bit late (I work 11:15 am to 8 pm). I'll post an update here after I've done that. We'll see what happens.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 05:18:20
I'll be looking for your post.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 12:20:48
to "see" the workgroup you need netbios enabled over tcp/ip.

How about posting the results of an ipconfig /all from a workstation?

since you are changeing routers I have to assume you are changing ip subnets. Belkin use 192.168.2.x whereas Linksys uses 192.168.1.x

If you are running the windows firewall, and made no changes, your new ip will be denied access by the firewalls.

Using a static ip does not address these issues.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 15:51:37
I understood him to say that he changed one Belkin for another. Even if it weren't another Belkin, where would he have to change subnets in Windows firewall ?

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 16:17:29
windows firewall is limited in that you need, if engaged' to go to the exceptions tab and make sure file and printsharing is enabled.

Versus for example ZoneAlarm which allows you to block or allow by ip address/host name or subnet.

You are right, the linksys went back as did another belkin.

after all of those we know its not the router :-)

I have to wonder why someone running xp would be running 8gig in the workstation.

Report •

February 9, 2009 at 19:29:00
I've just gotten home & am eating dinner (the kids are asleep) as I look this over. So, here goes:

"I have to wonder why someone running xp would be running 8gig in the workstation."

I wish I could say that I KNEW it would activate Physical Address Extension and use the additional 4GB as a non-HDD swap file. But, truthfully, when I built them, it was $34 for each 2gb stick, so I just loaded up all 4 slots (on each machine). Doing that forced me to learn a little more about XP (4 gb usable memory limit, waah!). Plus, when I finally get the evil Bill Gates empire off our desktops, the extra RAM will work just fine with Linux.

"after all of those we know its not the router :-)"

Well, I've been thinking that all along. The further I get, the more I think that it's an AUE (Another User Error) (I.D.Ten-T).

"to "see" the workgroup you need netbios enabled over tcp/ip."

I can see the workgroup just fine with the old Belkin, and don't have any netbios enabled on anything.

IPCONFIG/ALL? Here it is (using the NEW Belkin):

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RCH-DAVID
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : RCH-WORKGROUP

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : RCH-WORKGROUP
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) PCI-E G
igabit Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-22-15-73-35-99
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . :
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, February 09, 2009 12:53:30 A
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, February 07, 2018 12:53:3
0 AM

"If you are running the windows firewall, and made no changes, your new ip will be denied access by the firewalls."

I need to check the firewall settings. I usually have it completely turned off, but I was looking at it before I went off to work, and noticed it was turned on. I need to go through that again & see what I can do with it.

"Using a static ip does not address these issues."

No, it does not "address" the issues, but it might force things to work consistently regardless of which router is installed.

Ok, I've got some work to do on this thing, but probably have to get my wife off her computer to make it happen. Of course, she's upset because I've got the printer on MY desktop, and she doesn't have access to it until I get this thing resolved. So, maybe she'll go read one of her vampire books & I can get some real work done!

More to come after I get a little deeper into this.

Thanks for the dialogue, I really appreciate it!

Report •

February 18, 2009 at 22:30:59
This just gets stranger & stranger!

Let me note that I had rebooted all the systems, in a systematic fashion (from top to bottom, so that the modem was turned on first, then the router, then the server, & finally workstations), several times. Yet, nothing changed.

So, now, it's been, what, NINE DAYS since my last reply, and suddenly ... Well, we got an Asus EeeePC today, and I was setting it up. I turned on the wireless on the new router, configured the security, then set the EeeePC to go wireless and configured the WEP key on it. Just for grins, I went to My Network, and browsed. LOW AND BEHOLD, suddenly, I can see everything. I immediately turned around to my desktop workstation and checked it there, and WAH-LAH!!! I can see the Microsoft Network with all the PCs and all the shares.

So, don't ask me how it righted itself. I don't have a clue. I have, seriously, done no configuring of anything since my last post with the conditions stated above. I mean, I did set everything to static (except the EeeePC), but I still wasn't able to see anything in the workgroup! Yet, there it is, all present and accounted for, working like one would have expected all along.

So, I appreciate the help, and SOMETHING worked (maybe it was just TIME required for the data to propogate itself through the system, tho I can hardly imagine it would have taken much more than a nanosecond or two. Yet, somewhere along the way, it's now working.

-> David
San Antonio, TX

Report •

Ask Question