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doubt on osi layers!! please help me

January 2, 2013 at 23:05:04
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while sharing a file from one pc to another in the same network which are all layers in the osi model act?

i didnt find any answers in google also!!


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#1
January 3, 2013 at 02:58:21

Google has plenty of information on the OSI layers model. But you won't find the exact, step-by-step answer to your question, and I hope that no-one here will supply you with that complete answer. You have to actually think about the problem and do a little work yourself. That is the point of a homework assignment. Alternatively, discuss it with your tutor.

If you find this too difficult then perhaps you should reconsider whether you are studying the right course. The last thing that the world needs is network engineers who don't understand the basic principles of networking.


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#2
January 3, 2013 at 03:05:33

yaa ..you are correct !! but im not working anywhere and im a fresher thats the reason im not able to find the answer ...and u mentioned the word " homework" .. for your kind information please visit my blog www.vamsismethngspcl.blogspot.in then you will come to know about my homework..


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#3
January 3, 2013 at 03:57:19

What the blog has to do with anything I have no idea. I think you misunderstand what is meant by the term "homework"

Home work in this context is a task given to you by teacher, tutors, instructor to be completed out side of normal lesson. The purpose of the task is to give you practice in finding things out for your self and working out a solution to a problem and hopefully learn something along the way. Not to not to have someone provide the solution for you.

Stuart


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Related Solutions

#4
January 3, 2013 at 08:04:29

Lovely response StuartS thanks for putting that down!

I like it so much, I'm going to quote it as I want to add one thing:

Home work in this context is a task given to you by teacher, tutors, instructor to be completed out side of normal lesson. The purpose of the task is to give you practice in finding things out for your self and working out a solution to a problem and hopefully learn something along the way. Not to not to have someone provide the solution for you.

As per the above. The term "homework" derives from the fact that it's an assignment/task (work) you do outside of normal lessons (ie: at home). Ergo: "homework"

If you know OSI model and how it works in real life, then the answer to your original question is really quite simple. You just have to think about it.

It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#5
January 3, 2013 at 20:47:23

im working with this question and im searching for that in the internet too..after all the work i found that network layer will not be there in the scene in this case..and i want further details about this but you guys without telling the answer instead you are diverting this topic

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#6
January 3, 2013 at 21:10:19

" i found that network layer will not be there in the scene in this case"

If this was the conclusion you came to then you have no understanding of how the osi model works. Each layer talks to the one above and below it.

I would suggest you start with leaning how to search. You should go to google and follow their tutorial on how to search.

google "google tutorials"
google "how the osi model works"

Read your course material: all of it.
Ask your instructor questions

Answers are only as good as the information you provide.
How to properly post a question:
Sorry no tech support via PM's


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#7
January 3, 2013 at 21:32:43

wanderer!! in the question i mentioned "with in the same network" ..better once go through the question ..when the two systems are in the same network there is no use of network layer!!!!

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#8
January 4, 2013 at 01:10:01

And if the network layer is not involved, how do you suppose the two computers address each other? You are correct that, within a single network, routing is not involved but the computers still need to identify each other with network addresses (IP addresses most probably). Routing and addressing are different concepts, both of which are handled at the network layer.

Have a look at this article about the network layer: http://www.highteck.net/EN/Network/...
"First, the Network layer must provide a mechanism for addressing these end devices. If individual pieces of data are to be directed to an end device, that device must have a unique address. In an IPv4 network, when this address is added to a device, the device is then referred to as a host."

You might also like to look at post 6 in this thread for an analogy of how the OSI model works: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/t...

This misunderstanding demonstrates why it would not be a good idea to simply give you a solution. You have to actually understand that solution not just be able to repeat it.


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#9
January 4, 2013 at 01:21:28

in this case it wont use IP ADDRESS (which comes in network layer) instead of that it uses MAC ADDRESS(which operates in data link layer) ..because it uses mac address for communication there is no need of network layer!!

what do u say about this??


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#10
January 4, 2013 at 01:25:25

it communicates through mac address (48 bit) ..mac address operates in data linklayer of the osi model ...so there is no use of ip address

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#11
January 4, 2013 at 01:27:12

I say that you do not understand networking and seem unwilling to learn.

How do you suppose that computer A knows the MAC address of computer B? Or are you suggesting that we use MAC addresses to identify computers when we want to copy a file?


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#12
January 4, 2013 at 01:35:42

yeah mac address will be used for identifying a computer with in a network but ip address is used to identify a computer in different network (i.e internet) ...if you dont agree that network layer wont function in this case then please explain ...

waiting for your answer


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#13
January 4, 2013 at 01:38:50

As I said, you just don't understand networking and you seem unwilling to study the articles that I have linked to.

I suggest that you either have a discussion with your tutor or else think hard about pursuing a different career. I am not here to take the place of your tutor.


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#14
January 4, 2013 at 01:46:42

you just cant tell that im unwilling for networking...what i said is correct that network layer wont be there ...

thank you


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#15
January 4, 2013 at 01:53:49

once read my question..i hope u didnt get my question ..

there are two computers ..those are connected by cross over cable ..so we can share files between two..so in this case network layer wont be there ..


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#16
January 4, 2013 at 01:57:31

waiting for ur reply

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#17
January 4, 2013 at 02:00:52

You also need to learn about network protocols, specifically Ethernet(MAC) and TCP/IP (IP address) and how the two work together.

I am afraid ice2lave I have to agree with the others. You need to talk with your tutor as you have totally misunderstood something. Even if you were to plug two computers together via a crossover cable, the OSI layers would still be there.

Stuart


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#18
January 4, 2013 at 02:04:39

hii stuart

im saying that only network layer wont be there ..im not talking about remaining layers ..


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#19
January 4, 2013 at 02:06:17

i really thank you guys for answering me without any irritation ...thank you ..thanks a alot..waiting for stuarts answer

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#20
January 4, 2013 at 05:09:10

One last attempt. Now think about this before you reply.

You have computer A and computer B. How does computer A know the MAC address of computer B if it wants to transfer a file to it? When you are copying that file do you specify the MAC address or do you just use names (or possibly IP addresses)?

Work through the process step by step from you typing, on computerA

copy file \\computerB\sharename

or

ftp computerB

and think about what happens at each stage and which OSI layers are responsible for what happens. (Hint: a crossover cable is still a network.)


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#21
January 4, 2013 at 07:31:57

ice2lava

You have been answered repeatedly but you do not understand the answer because you do not understand the mechanism of the OSI model. If you were to search a tutorial (as has been recommended) and read it through carefully you might have a better understanding of the OSI model and therefore, understand the answer.

I would highly recommend you talk to your instructor and ask him/her for some extra time of theirs to give you extra instruction.

Also, have a look at the following OSI chart in .pdf format (use controls at bottom to enlarge page so you can read it):

http://downloadfile.anritsu.com/Ref...

This is such a terrific chart, I got my boss to order a full sized one for me just because I like it so much and I have it hanging in my office.

Take a look in the orange section under "Routing/Switching Protocols" down in the "Network Layer" (layer 3). Notice "IP" is there. IP as in "IP address"

You keep saying the network layer is not involved and you've been told multiple times it is. Yet you keep insisting it's not. Well, the above chart proves conclusively it is indeed involved.

Since I know you're still confused I'll attempt to explain by adding on to what others have said.

You've had it pointed out to you that when you connect two computers together using a network cable...........regardless of whether or not it's a crossover cable going PC to PC, or in patch cable running to a switch...........in order to have communication, both PC's involved must have a valid IP address within the same subnet.

Take two computers and a crossover cable. Plug them in. Then try to copy a file from one to the other. You can't. That is, you can't until you give them both a valid IP address within the same subnet. Then, and only then, can they communicate with each other.

Now, if you still don't get it..........there's nothing else we, or anybody else in this world can do to make you understand and we're back around to the original point that you don't get it and need help learning it.

It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

***William Henley***


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#22
January 4, 2013 at 08:22:07

Guys this is a waste of time.

ice2lava has some kind of mental block to understanding these core concepts as well as having established misinformation as what he believes to be accurate.

A simple review of How the OSI model Works via the google search I suggested would have clarified the entire issue and answered his question.

He is not willing to do this. There are too many other people to help.

Please don't waste your time.

BTW ice2lava most of us answering your questions have more than 10 years in the field and some of us a lot more.

It is bad when you don't even understand your own question.

I believe ijack is correct and this will not be a field you will be successful in. Highly recommend you go into programming or other related IT field. Networking isn't going to work for you and you will live a life of frustration.

Answers are only as good as the information you provide.
How to properly post a question:
Sorry no tech support via PM's


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#23
January 4, 2013 at 14:56:23

ice2lava, an easy way to understand what is actually happening when you copy a file using SMB or NFS, etc, is to start up Wireshark, copy the file, and then look at the packets that went across the wire.

As the others have stated, you need to do some reading and learn this for yourself.

Tony


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