A few other things I forgot in the previous. If I run the Quake Arena demo it's mostly okay. There are some minor graphical glitches, but nothing major - just a few streaks and "snow" on some textures. That's also true of Unreal - there are some streaks but nothing serious. With any image program - Graphic Converter, Photoshop, Quicktime Picture Viewer - there's a lot of blue smearing and streaking which gets worse when I scroll around. But it's different when I startup with the CD. There are some JPEG-like artifacts on some images but not others. I'm starting to think about taking it to a dealer - it's out of warranty - because I'm completely puzzled. Thanks for your help again, pickle.

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I find it very hard to believe nothing else showed up since you're still running 9.0.4. There are 3 updates past that - 9.1, 9.2.1, and 9.2.2 - that should get updated as well. If SWUpdate doesn't see 'em, grab em from Apple's site. p

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Damn, that's a 70MB download ! To start with ! I'll get back to you when I've got it. Thanks again, pickle :)

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Okay. I've downloaded and installed the 9.1 update, and it's still here. I updated the Firmware too, and it's still here. Am I going to have to update to 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 as well ? :(

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Yes :) p

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Okay. It's nearly 5am, I've just finished downloading and installing the 9.2.1 update, and I've still got the problem. I suppose it's the 9.2.2 update now ? :( But what am I supposed to be fixing here ? Is it a driver problem, or something to do with Colorsync, or is it Firmware ? If I knew what the problem might be it would help to keep me going. :( (again)

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Could be all three :) That's why it's best to cover all the bases first... p

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Tints are adjustable in both "Normal & Theater" mode. Problem is, you have to be an authorized Tech to get the CD tool for it. I've read all your messages. Trust me! If you have STREAKS then you have a hardware issue. All the updates for 9 (or any other OS) aren't going to help you one bit.

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Bad video drivers have been known to cause this sort of thing before. Without a screen shot or photograph of what's going on, it's hard for me to say exactly what he means, though. p

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I'll send you a screenshot.

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After seeing Charles's screenshots, I can say pretty conclusively that this is a software problem, not a hardware problem. A hardware issue - at least, one with the display itself - wouldn't show up in screen shots. One with the video card *might*, but I tend to doubt it. See if performing a clean installation of the OS and then doing the various updates helps any. p

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Thanks again, Pickle. I'll get to it as soon as I can and let you know.:)

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Well this is really something. I did a clean install, then the updates again, and The Blue Rain is still here. Two things I noticed though - when I started up with the fresh 9.0.4 the problem was noticably worse. Each update seems to have reduced it. Also, I played those Quicktime clips again from starwars.com, and the actual video part was affected, but not the surrounding window graphics. It seems to affect 2d images which have to update quickly - like QT movies and scrolling image windows. On Netscape 6 right now, the toolbar is OK and so are the ads and graphics on this page. I'm going to download the 9.2.2 update as well - I figure if I've gone for 160mb already, another 20 or so isn't really going to hurt. Thanks for your help again, pickle.

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One thing I forgot - it doesn't affect the "starting up" screen either. It's only after the extensions have loaded. But - strangely - it was the same when I used the CD. Is there something I'm missing here ? I don't see how a software problem can affect a CD startup, or how a hardware problem doesn't affect everything equally. Could it be a virus ? <:(

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Sounds like a problem with the video drivers to me, but I have no idea why a clean install didn't fix it. At this point, your guess is as good as mine... p

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When you say "clean install" do you mean the install option which creates a new system folder and disables the previous one, or reinitialising the disk and starting from scratch ? That's what I'm thinking of doing next if the 9.2.2 update doesn't work.

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The former, which leaves the old System Folder behind but disabled. p

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Here we go again. I did the 9.2.2 update. No change. I downloaded Apples "Display Adjustment Utility" from a tech help site, and tried out the test patterns. In the red, green, blue, black, and white patterns, there's no problem, but in the grey bars, there are two lines running vertically - one blue, the other yellow, and there's a white line at the left edge. I'll send you the screenshot so you can see for yourself. I'm gearing up to wipe the disk and start afresh - I don't think it'll help, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Thanks for your help again, pickle. If you can offer anything else, I'll appreciate it.

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Sorry to hear. At the same time I don't think that an erase will fix the prob. I had a nightmare with "tint" after my analog board was changed in my Ruby 450 DV+. Come to find out the idiots never adjusted the Black to grey to white shades as you've mentioned. I say this because the Tech that Apple dispatched to my house told me distinctly that Lines or "STREAKS" are not a driver prob. He said that I was lucky it was tint. Though I have AppleCare I would've had to wait about 2 weeks for them to get the parts to repair it. Use Logic Charles. If you've already done a clean install, then you have a Brand New computer. Like it's right out of the box. That rules SOFTWARE out. Sorry. Can you send me a screenshot? Later

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"whatsyourprob," do you understand that if this is a hardware problem, there are *very* few circumstances that would cause anything to show up in a screen shot? p

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Sorry Pickle but a screenshot is simply a photogragh of what's on the screen. If it's hardware or software that's the prob, it's going to show it either way. It's a Carbon Copy remember??? You should've saw this tech. The guy was like a little Wizard. He had tools that one would think could only be seen in an operating room. I'll stick with his advice. One more thing. I apologize beforehand because I can't remember if it was you or Andy that was talking about checking "Internal" cables. It's always a good choice to let people know that they can easily get Bar-b-qued . It's called DEATH. I don't care if it's unplugged. The monitor has to be dischared. So people!!! Be careful. TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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Okay whatsyurprob. Screenshots on their way.

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Send it again Charles. I had to empty out that e-mail account. Sorry TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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A screen shot is a high-level snapshot of what the OS thinks is supposed to be displayed on the screen. For instance, you could disconnect the screen entirely and still take a screen shot. Ten-second quiz: What would the screen shot look like in this case? If you answered "black," you failed. There are a LOT of things that can happen between hardware and what the OS thinks is on the screen, which is why this is much more likely to be a software problem if it's showing up in screen shots. p

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I wiped my disk and - as I expected - there's no change. I'm going to try resetting the PMU, and if that doesn't shift it...>:(

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Well, he wiped the disk clean. That rules software out. I quote, Tints are adjustable in both "Normal & Theater" mode. Problem is, you have to be an authorized Tech to get the CD tool for it. I've read all your messages. Trust me! If you have STREAKS then you have a hardware issue. All the updates for 9 (or any other OS) aren't going to help you one bit. It seems to me that your monitor is either continuously re-calibrating or it can't calibrate 100%. Analog board is pobably gone. TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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Okay, whatsyurprob. If it's hardware, it would show up everywhere on the screen, right ? Well I'm looking at a window in Netscape right now which isn't affected, but the desktop picture underneath it is. if I open an image file in any program, it looks okay until I scroll. If there are any blue areas, it's worse. When I startup, the glitches don't show on the "welcome" screen. It seems to kick in just before the extensions start loading. If i startup without extensions it's the same. I use a 3d app which shows an OpenGL preview, and that's affected only when I rotate the view. In wireframe mode, it shows up as a shadow on some lines, but not others. In Quake, some textures show a white noise, but most of them don't. It's the same in Unreal. All of those are dependent on the hardware, right, so wouldn't they suffer the worse ?

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Well you didn't tell me all that. Even so, use logic Charles. If you wiped the disk clean and re-installed from your OS9 install CD how can it not be hardware? What you'd be saying is that your computer came with bad software. You know that isn't the case right? Why do most people want to turn to software when there's a prob. How many micro-transmitters are there in a computer. And doesn't every single one of them have their own function? What if one of them decides to take a crap on you. Or how bout a group of them that are supposed to work in comination and concert with each other?Does that ruin your entire computer? Then again, there could also be an external device that's divvying out some kind of corruption. Hardware can flaunt havoc on a system. Just because it only does what it does when you do this or that doesn't always mean it's a software issue. You proved that yourself guy. TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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What I'm trying to do, whatsyurprob, is exhaust every possible method of fixing it myself before I take it to a tech. We all know that that option won't be cheap, especially since my machine is out of warranty. I've read on the Apple support boards that a new analog board can cost up to US$300 to replace. That's about £250 I think. I can't afford that right now. It's also possible that I have a firmware problem, but I've updated that to no avail. The other option is the PMU chip - it can cause numerous problems throughout the system and it can be reset by opening the machine. That's something I wanted to avoid, but I've tracked down a service manual, and I know how to get to it now, so I'm more inclined to try. If that fails, it's either call in a tech, or live with it - whichever is the most afforable. BTW, did you get my screenshots ?

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Yea, I got em. Your correct about your grey bars. I see that you have two solid black bars. Your in bad shape when it comes to shading. Also, if you look real close at it, there's a slight pink to the entire shot. Remember I spoke earlier about the tint? I just went through this. Well this part anyway. It was just an adjustment was all. But can you get the utility tool so you can do it? Again, as I said earlier, it's my understanding that in order to legally obtain one you have to be an authorized Apple Tech. But if it's not a prob, remember to adjust both normal and theater modes. That's very important. The choppy texture IS a hardware issue. Looks like a problem with streaming ie.CALIBRATION. Sorry but, Analog. Have you noticed anything different about your iTunes. Do the visuals work properly on every setting? Are there any waves to them? Let me know. And for Gods sake, be careful about jumpin into that machine. Later TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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I just did a brief try of iTunes. the visuals don't seem to be affected. I'll try more later. This utility you speak of - is it the Display Adjustment Utility ? I found that on a tech site somewhere - it was a link from one of the Apple discussions.

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Yes it is Charles. But there's several different ones. It all depends on what you need to do. Follow me? Also, you might've found a link to it, but try and purchase the one that adjusts your grey bars and Tints. The tech that came to my house wouldn't leave the installer on my Desktop. He actually told me that there's an encoded log on the CD as to how many times the installer has been used vs. how many times its been retrieved. If they don't match up it's his job. I kinda think he was pullin my chain. but then again, I even offered him $20.00 to leave it on my Desktop. Sorry he said. Can't do it. Anyway, do you agree with me that you have a pink tint in your grey bars. Also, your first black row looks like it has some blue to it. Look at it real close. It definately need adjusting like mine did. Conerning this prob, you should be worried about what caused the tint change. Mine was do to incompetency on the part of a Apple certified provider that changed the analog board then not doing the adjustments properly. Again, what did it to yours? I wish I could give you more input on that texture. I still say it has something to do with the streaming, ie. calibration. I really have thought about this. I even mentioned it to Apple. You know, like it was my 700 Graphite computer. (Both my computers have AppleCare. For $149.00 on each computer, you can't beat it.) Their willing to dispatch another Tech to my house to change my 128 rage card. and whatever utility Tool they need to correct the prob.. I don't agree with them but, they're gonna be fittin the bill. Remember, I acted like it was my computer to "Your" troubles. So that's what they said. TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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I suppose I should call the dealer I bought from before I go opening the machine. Just to get a pointer on the cost. I did see the pinkish tint on the grey bars - it's very slight, but it is there. Thanks for the help, whatsyurprob.

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So whats the deal Charles? TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS

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Pink tint on your screen doesn't mean anything unless both your monitor and Charles's monitor have been calibrated to the exact same colour profile. And yes, I'm saying that there may be a bug in the drivers. That's the only reasonable explanation for the streaking *not* being consistent across the whole OS *and* showing up in screen shots. Again, if this was a hardware problem, ESPECIALLY on the analogue board, there's NO WAY it could show up in a screen shot. The analogue board merely takes signals that the video card puts out and converts them into signals to control the electron gun in the CRT. The screen shot is a digital record of what the OS sees the video card putting out, not what the OS sees on the CRT. The OS has no idea what the CRT is doing. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. You can mess with the adjustments on the analogue board all day and it won't do a damn thing for the screenshots. This CANNOT be a hardware problem on the analogue board. The ONLY way this could be a hardware problem is if the problem is on the digital side, with the video chip itself or its associated digital circuitry. Given that the problem is not consistent across applications, the odds of this are pretty low. p

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Oh, hey, Charles, any chance you have OS X around? See if that also displays the problem... p

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Hey, pickle. I haven't got OS X, unfortunately. I'm between jobs too, so I can't grab it just yet, but I will do as soon as I can - I figure it's worth it after all those updates.

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Okay, you two. I've done some renders, and checked them on another machine, and they're fine. I can send them to both of you if you want, but it's a 1MB Stuffit archive so only if you really want me to. As far as I'm concerned, if the renders are okay, I can live with it for now, until I can afford a new machine, or the repair bill. :)

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