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G4 won't boot (most of the time)

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Name: DebTN
Date: September 7, 2002 at 16:22:27 Pacific
OS: 9.0.2
CPU/Ram: 128 Mb
Comment:

I have a problem with my G4 (OS 9.0.2?, 256 Mb) booting, or not, as the case may be. I should mention that this computer is on my desk at work, so I am not financially
responsible for it's repair. I should also mention that I have an identical G4, an old Gateway, and two white G3's running fine (and a Dell on order). But I like my G4!

In mid-August, I noticed that the G4 wouldn't read a floppy disk (external USB drive), The disk would spin, but didn't appear on the desktop. I was away for a week. When I returned, my computer was off. Someone said there had been some storms, so I assumed the electricity had been out. Beginning then (August 20th), and continuing to present, I have had trouble with the G4 booting. In addition, on August 21st, a transformer blew out, and on August 30th, there was another major power outage.

When I power up the computer, it gives the happy Mac, and the start-up message, but stops there. Extensions never load. Well, almost never. The last time the boot was successful, I had tried to restart 61 times. Since the problem began, I believe I have been able to restart 4 times, out of over 100 tries. The computer will not boot from CD, either.

Tech support ran Norton Utilities. Nothing showed up except bad dates on files. The battery was replaced. Disk Warrior couldn't be run because it needs to boot from the CD. Tech support zapped the p-ram; after that, the gong start-up noise disappeared. I pushed the silver button behind the battery; that didn't help, either.

Without seeing the G4, a local repair shop told the tech support person that to replace the logic board and the front panel board would cost $485. (The machine is 2 years old, and I doubt the dept. would pay for this, given that the new Dell is on order.)

I have thought of interchanging the hard drive with the other G4's hard drive, but am not sure I have a screwdriver small enough to release it from the casing.

Any help/hope? Or should I scrap it?




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Response Number 1
Name: DebTN
Date: September 7, 2002 at 16:24:14 Pacific
Reply:

Corrected message (a few more details):

I have a problem with my G4 (OS 9.0.2?, 256 Mb) booting, or not, as the case may be. I should mention that this computer is on my desk at work, so I am not financially responsible for its repair. I should also mention that I have an identical G4, an old Gateway, and two white G3's running fine (and a Dell on order). But I like my G4!

In mid-August, I noticed that the G4 wouldn't read a floppy disk (external USB drive), The disk would spin, but didn't appear on the desktop. I was away for a week. When I returned, my computer was off. Someone said there had been some storms, so I assumed the electricity had been out. Beginning then (August 20th), and continuing to present, I have had trouble with the G4 booting. In addition, on August 21st, a transformer blew out, and on August 30th, there was another major power outage.

When I power up the computer, it gives the happy Mac, and the start-up message, but stops there. Extensions never load. Well, almost never. The last time the boot was successful, I had tried to restart 61 times. Since the problem began, I believe I have been able to restart 4 times, out of over 100 tries. The computer will not boot from CD, either. The last time the computer froze was upon opening Explorer.

Tech support ran Norton Utilities. Nothing showed up except bad dates (1904) on files. The battery was replaced. Disk Warrior couldn't be run because it needs to boot from the CD. Tech support zapped the p-ram; after that, the gong start-up noise disappeared, and the computer never powers down fully. I have to pull the plug to power down, then restart. I pushed the silver button behind the battery; that didn't help, either.

Without seeing the G4, a local repair shop told the tech support person that to replace the logic board and the front panel board would cost $485. (The machine is 2 years old, and I doubt the dept. would pay for this, given that the new Dell is on order.)

I have thought of interchanging the hard drive with the other G4's hard drive, but am not sure I have a screwdriver small enough to release it from the casing.

Any help/hope? Or should I scrap it?


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Response Number 2
Name: Andy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 16:30:19 Pacific
Reply:

Have you tried booting with extentions off?


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Response Number 3
Name: DebTN
Date: September 7, 2002 at 16:34:46 Pacific
Reply:

Yes. I have tried booting with extensions off. It still doesn't get that far. I have also tried rebuilding the desktop, and it doesn't get that far, either.


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Response Number 4
Name: DebTN
Date: September 8, 2002 at 10:04:19 Pacific
Reply:

I came into my office this afternoon. The G4 booted on the first try. *scream* I think it may be time to erase my files.


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Response Number 5
Name: Andy
Date: September 8, 2002 at 15:46:42 Pacific
Reply:

Why not upgrade to OS X??


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Response Number 6
Name: the pickle
Date: September 8, 2002 at 17:30:15 Pacific
Reply:

More like time to back up your files, it sounds like.

See if you can get your support folks to check out that box with the hardware test CD that came with it. It sounds like one of those power outages might have been followed up by a surge that farked the hard drive if not other components.

And tell them to buy you a surge protector.

p


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Response Number 7
Name: DebTN
Date: September 8, 2002 at 20:26:06 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for the suggestions.

Andy -- I'm not sure the univ. has a license for OS X. Plus, I'm trying to avoid any reboot situation.

The Pickle -- I have my files backed up. I'm left deciding whether or not to delete them in case the time comes that I can't, and the machine heads off to Surplus.

What is the hardware CD? I have the software restore CD. (I also have a surge protector. :)

Since this comes and goes, could something be loose, or just components in some state of dying? The computer wouldn't power the external floppy today, but the CD and zip drives (internal) are working.


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Response Number 8
Name: the pickle
Date: September 8, 2002 at 21:43:10 Pacific
Reply:

It sure wouldn't hurt to pop it open and check for loose connections. I suspect your HD is about to bite the dust, however. Reformat it and do a fresh installation of your OS, applications, and restore from backup. See if that helps at all.

p


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Response Number 9
Name: Wayne
Date: September 9, 2002 at 23:52:41 Pacific
Reply:

Air blast the dirt out of the powersupply and the
rest of the system while you are at it. Pull your
RAM out. Yes the Dimms you are so proud of, pull
them out wipe the contact strip with a dry lint free
cloth. Blow out the dimm slots ans put the Ram
back in board, Oxidating contacts sometimes
make bad connections which oxidize and make
even worse contacts. Aluminum against copper or
gold is bad.

Give ut a shot but don't zap the Dimms with static,
keep them in a static bag


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Response Number 10
Name: DebTN
Date: September 10, 2002 at 05:26:48 Pacific
Reply:

Wayne,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try the internal items the next time I lose power or have to reboot. I'm not going to tempt fate by willingly restarting the computer.

I have not yet reformatted the hard drive, as The Pickle suggested. Tech support is more confident that it is the boards. I think they'll be even more confident if they can get the Apple rep. to authorize free board installations on 20 or so 400 MHz G4 computers, though I believe mine is the only one known to be acting up.

I am torn between what may be the truth -- either a quick fix or scrapping the machine -- and whether the local repair shop is trying to make a few dollars doing Apple authorized repair, whether or not it is the solution.

I hope no one reading this is from the repair shop!


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Response Number 11
Name: DebTN
Date: September 17, 2002 at 05:48:08 Pacific
Reply:

The Pickle,

I found the hardware test CD. The processor, memory, and video checked out on the quick and extended tests.

The computer booted of the CD after sitting off all weekend. After I ran the tests, and clicked the restart button from the test software, the computer wouldn't boot. :(

I sent an email message to tech support asking if they have another hard drive that can be placed in as a test.


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Response Number 12
Name: DebTN
Date: September 17, 2002 at 09:36:40 Pacific
Reply:

How flat is flat? Are copper pieces the same as copper wires? I see two not-so-flat chips with copper wires, and none with black pieces.

From Tech Support:

I talked with Apple and if you have the logic board/power panel that they were replacing they will replace it for free. The diagnostics will not find this. I did find out from Electric Mouse how to tell if it is the logic board that needs to be replaced. If you open the case and look on the side of the video card facing the top of the door there will be a flat, black chip with either 2 copper colored pieces on top of it or one small black piece on top of the flat black chip. Apple will then pay for the replacement. Electric Mouse will only charge if it is something else.

I do not have any extra hard drives because we only order them as replacements.


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Response Number 13
Name: DebTN
Date: October 13, 2002 at 08:00:27 Pacific
Reply:

If anyone is still following along...

The G4 came back from repair. They said it was a corrupted system. They upgraded to OS 9.1 and cleaned-up the hard drive ($120 for all the time it took).

It still hangs when the external floppy is plugged into a USB slot. I haven't tried to boot from a CD. I moved the computer to a different place in my office, on a different electrical circuit.


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